February 2003 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Contrasting Sails
by chbenneck＠juno.com 15 Feb '03

15 Feb '03

Hi Craig, Tanbark colored sails keep down the glare. If you read the accounts of the Pardeys voyages, they use tanbark colored sails because it is easier on the eyes. Another advantage is that they don't show dirt as white sails would. SAILRITE list tanbark colored dacron sail cloth material in their catalog. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: Spinnaker questions
by Harvey Wilson 15 Feb '03

15 Feb '03

>>but I'm not sure I want to shell out $30 for a book on a subject so specialized, though I'm sure it would help me.<< $30 ?? The price on my book says $14.95. This is a small, softcover book of 106 pages.. Are you in Canada??? Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294

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RE: M_Boats: $.02 about boom vang
by Thomas Howe 15 Feb '03

15 Feb '03

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Re: M_Boats: Re: Rigging
by Jslubliner＠aol.com 15 Feb '03

15 Feb '03

Jerry used to get into some really good fights in San Carlos, Mexico with Neil Clark and Tom Van Atta in the early days of the 17's. There is a Tucson Sailing Club "urban legend" about a tacking duel, where one of these competitors threw a handful of broken pop-rivets on the opponent's sail, so that they dropped on the deck of the competing boat and distracted the competition...... Right, Jerry?

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Mast Base Block for Bimini
by Steve R 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

I am thinking of putting a block of wood under the mast base bracket to raise the boom, and have more headroom under a bimini. I would need new shrouds, a new forestay and a tether to hold down the tack of the jib. Plus some long bolts to fasten the bracket through the wooden block. Am I missing anything here? Are there any reasons not to do this? Thanks, Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY

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Re: M_Boats: Mast Base Block for Bimini
by s.mcclellan＠attbi.com 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

Steve-- Well for one thing, the vectors trying to knock your boat over would be increased, without any compensating increase in speed (sail area). So performance-wise and safety-wise, it seems like it would not be advised. On the other hand, if you are unlikely to be caught out in high winds, perhaps it wouldn't matter so much. -- Steve McClellan~~M15~#152~~Chicago > I am thinking of putting a block of wood under the mast base bracket to raise > the boom, and have more headroom under a bimini. I would need new shrouds, a > new forestay and a tether to hold down the tack of the jib. Plus some long > bolts to fasten the bracket through the wooden block. > > Am I missing anything here? > > Are there any reasons not to do this? > > Thanks, > > Steve R. > M-15 #119 > Lexington, KY > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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RE: M_Boats: Re: Rigging
by Morris, Giles 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

>I really don't like a too tight rig What would be too tight? I've got the rigging set at about 10% on Dolphin, according to the Loos gauge that I found in a flea market. Does that sound reasonable? Giles Morris Arlington VA Montgomery 15 "Umiaq" Vancouver 25 "Dolphin" Miscellaneous small craft

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Re: M_Boats: New Spinnaker, continued
by s.mcclellan＠attbi.com 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

Thanks Craig! That sounds cool. I'd love to see a picture. Tod? -- Steve McClellan~~M15~#152~~Chicago > > Regarding the look of a bowsprit, Nor'Sea offers a bow anchor-roller that looks > like a sprit. Practical with > a touch of class. I think Tod's Busca might have one.

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jmbn rigging
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

Otay out I come. Upper Shrouds-moderately tensioned (this means no deck deflecting turnbuckle crankin'..easy big guy...it also means no flop). Please do not induce compressive loads on the mast using the uppers. I believe the rig does not like it. Mine told me so once. Lower Shrouds-loose enough to allow the lower and central section of the mast to deflect forward with moderate Boom Vang tension. There is that Vang thing raising its ugly head again. I believe Dave Ullman said the MOST important piece (adjustment) on a sailboat is the Boom Vang. They are NOT for racing only. Dave also told me outhauls should pretty much have two positions - on, and you got it..off. Vangs control twist and projected area (fancy esoteric terminology) as Jerry "Fast" Montgomery points out. By controlling twist one is able to increase and decrease power in the mainsail. Jerry and Dave think this is GOOD. Jerry asked for $.02 worth, here it comes. BTW Thanks Jerry. IMHO the 17's rig can benefit from some control of the central section of the mast's fore and aft movement. So, I use the Vang in conjunction with 'relaxed Lower shroud tension' to induce forward bend in the center of the mast. Please be careful doing this, as too much is hard on the boat, sails, and eventually your wallet, when the spar bends. The 'relaxed lowers' also allow me to rake the mast ' ridiculously' forward on a very broad reach and run (150-180 degrees) I mean forward- as in the masthead over the mooring cleat on the foredeck! This requires a Loooong throw backstay adjuster -available at Jmbn Rigging- to get that thing out there. It does make a difference (You saw it on OLN LV Challenge) The Vang is very important but that's a whole story in itself. By the way my Vang is 3:1 X2 wire with 3/16 line, considerably smaller than the aforementioned 3/8. I NEED a Vang because I do not use a traveler. ( proud of it too!) My mainsheet is a forked or split type as used on Snipes and Penguins. When the main is trimmed in all the way, the boom is locked like a vise on the centerline. The twist (power) is generated and excess is disposed of with the Vang. Now we all know these sailboats are complicated, but I think I got rid of one control ( the traveler), This allows me to maximize my ability to spaceout.....I mean deal with the trimming issues at hand. Mainsheet - Vang, Mainsheet - Vang, ohh and that pesky cunningham (crews job), important control that cunni. Different Strokes. That seems like I spewed more than my $.02 worth but then again I am not known for brevity. Thanks for the forum Peace Gary O. M-17 # 316A still trying to figure out the tall rig - no babystay thing fore and aft lowers? like the race bred C-22 maybe?? Perspiring mind wants to know. "That's why old people walk so slow, because they're remembering all the stories. I'm not that old but I know a lot because I used to hang out with old people back when there used to be real old people. Now everyone is sort of my age or younger, and most people don't know much more than I do. It's disappointing to become a leading authority in the field when you still have so much you want to learn."-Garrison Keillor

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Re: Rigging
by Jerry Montgomery 14 Feb '03

14 Feb '03

No- (re: the tension) I always use a backstay adjuster, which takes care of headstay tension, and I keep the uppers tighter than the lowers (and the lowers not very tight). I really don't like a too tight rig. I used to race a 17 against Neal Clark, a very good sailer living in Tucson; he kept his rigging very tight and our boatspeed was identical as far as I could tell. Almost one extreme against the other. Maybe it doesn't matter, or maybe the ideal is somewhere in between. I took the liberty of sending this to the M list hoping that Gary Oberbeck in Phoenix might throw in his .02 worth. He's been sailing a 17 for many years and is pretty darn mean out on the race course. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Saltm17(a)aol.com To: jmbn(a)innercite.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 6:03 AM Subject: Re: Rigging Jerry, If the old turnbuckles are ok then don't replace them, except for the ones that are mildly bent, those I would like replaced. If the backstay brindle is ok, then don't replace it. Have you ever take a tension reading of a well tuned M17? I took some readings before I took the riggin down and was wondering how they would compare to a well tuned rig. Thanks John

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