February 2003 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: montgomery_boats digest, Vol 1 #527 - 13 msgs
by JERRYGMAY＠aol.com 05 Feb '03

05 Feb '03

I must sell Jazz in Bb a nice M17 with trailor and a 4 johnson three sail in good condition I will deliver in the 48 states for gas money. $ 2,500.00. I just can't justify two boats, well Sue said one must go. jerrygmay(a)aol.com

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Re: M_Boats: More More More
by Jslubliner＠aol.com 05 Feb '03

05 Feb '03

Doug, do you have in the archves/or has anyone submitted significant line drawings/plans for a Montgomery? I would be interested in finding enough data to construct a scale R/C model of my 17 for use on local ponds. Might be an area of interest for more than one of us. A mini-challenge may be in the offing. Thanks, John Lubliner M-17FD #69 "Coyote"

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Bimini Links
by Steve R 05 Feb '03

05 Feb '03

I have found some interesting web sites for Bimini products. A site mentioned on a P-boat board, that has a positive endorsement. They make Biminis in Canada. (The admirable suggested I buy a Bimini, rather than make one, as my projects tend to take a looooooooong time to finish.) http://www.gmitopdesign.com/f-english.html? An English site that has some clever hardware. End fittings that screw in and out to adjust for fit. Track-mounted “universal” hinges. The tracks may be mounted on a deck that is not flat. Also a bimini mounted grab rail. http://www.sailcloth.co.uk/ Look under “TA Products”, then “Canopy, Sprayhood and Bimini.” The tracks are under “Type 316”. An Italian site with more clever ideas. Fittings that mount in oar locks. Sliding hinges that mount on the side of a deck. They even make a bimini that has hinges between each support leg and the top arch. The bimini can fold up into a compact package, but the hinges look on the flimsy side and are not attractive. http://web.tin.it/Tessilmare/suntop.html A US site with flush mounted hinges. http://www.acconmarine.com/ Some nifty ideas out there! Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY

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Wanted: Rest of the MONs
by Doug King 05 Feb '03

05 Feb '03

Is anyone willing to let me borrow their printed issues of the MON for a few days to complete the entire collection online? I'm looking for the issues from Winter 1999 on. Please contact me off-list, Doug ------------------------------------------ Doug King M-17 #404 "Vixen" Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org Email: mailto:msog@msog.org

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Re: M_Boats: Re: montgomery_boats digest, Vol 1 #527 - 13 msgs
by Douglas Peterson 05 Feb '03

05 Feb '03

Jerry, Where are you located? What year is it? Equipment? Please advise, Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: JERRYGMAY(a)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 7:55 PM To: montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com; montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: montgomery_boats digest, Vol 1 #527 - 13 msgs I must sell Jazz in Bb a nice M17 with trailor and a 4 johnson three sail in good condition I will deliver in the 48 states for gas money. $ 2,500.00. I just can't justify two boats, well Sue said one must go. jerrygmay(a)aol.com

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Re: M_Boats: Spinnaker questions
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 05 Feb '03

05 Feb '03

In a message dated 2/4/03 9:33:27 AM, s.mcclellan(a)attbi.com writes: << I bought a spinnaker to use on my M15. I have a couple of questions for anyone who may be more experienced than myself with using spinnakers. (I never have!) I need to attach a block to the mast for the spinnaker halyard, above the forestay attachment. Does anyone have an idea how far above the forestay the block should be attached?>> I would check with Jerry Montgomery on this. I would suggest that you would want this as close to the forestay attachment as possible, as this is a fractional rig with no backstays (the shrouds are swept back somewhat in lieu of backstay(s)). I know that Jerry set up several M15's with spinnakers, so defer to him. If you have an asymmetrical spinnaker (see below), you may be able to get by with the existing jib halyard (depending on cut). <<Another question is, what should I use as the attachment point for the tack of the sail? The same piece of hardware that the forestay and jib attach to?>> You need to determine whether your spinnaker is a conventional 'symmetrical' (poled) type, or an asymmetrical (non-poled, AKA 'cruising spinnaker,' 'gennaker,' etc.). This should be easy to determine by looking at the shape of the sail. The former does not have a tack that attaches to the stem fitting, but rather has two cringles that you can think of as alternating between tack or clew depending on which tack you are on. It also is flown entirely *forward* of your forestay. A spinnaker pole (not whisker pole) with one end attached to a mast fitting is employed to windward, and whichever cringle is at the pole end is the active 'tack'. The pole is often (although not always) controlled vertically by a topping lift and/or a downhaul. Horizontal adjustments of pole and sail are controlled by spinnaker guy and sheet respectively (For most boats, these interchange depending on which tack (port/starboard) you are on. Gybing this kind of spinnaker requires releasing the outboard end from the guy (formerly windward side of the sail) and switching it to the other (that is to say, that the old guy becomes the new sheet, and vice versa). Depending on your setup, this is either accomplished by dipping the pole below the forestay, or by doing what is called an end-for-end gybe, where the pole ends trade places (mast end to new 'tack,' outboard end to mast fitting). A poled spinnaker is more of a dynamic sail, as the ability to 'square' the sail to the wind is enhanced by the pole's ability to be drawn to windward. In addition to squaring, The shape of the sail can also be controlled/optimized by adjustments in pole height. An asymmetrical, or cruising 'chute' is rigged in much the same manner as your standard jib, that is to say that it has a dedicated tack and clew, but lacks the hanks of the jib. For all purposes, handling this type of sail is little different from handling a standard jib/genoa. The primary difference is that they are typically are of lightweight nylon rather than dacron material, and have a more radial cut. The method of gybing a cruising chute will depend on whether your halyard is above the jib halyard, or if you are actually using the jib halyard for the chute. The latter is easier, as you do not have to lead the sail forward of the forestay, and is little different from gybing a normal jib. This type of sail offers some of the advantages of a poled spinnaker with a dramatic reduction in complexity. On the other hand, it is not as efficient as a poled spinnaker when on a deep reach or running, as it cannot be squared (make perpendicular) to the wind in the same manner. Often, it will be blanketed by the main in a way that a poled spinnaker will not (this accounts for the addition of long, often retractable sprits poles on many of the new designs employing asymmetricals--it gets the sail way out in front where it can get unspoiled air). <<Finally, when rigging it, should I use a downhaul or some other rigging other than simply the halyard and sheets? (I realize I'll want to use a whisker pole to the clew, right?>> You may want to use a whisker pole on an asymmetrical/cruising chute--especially if you are sailing wing-and-wing. It is not needed with a poled spinnaker. Jerry should speak to how he set up the poled spinnaker versions on the M15's. I would imagine you could rig a simple pole downhaul or topping lift, but it may prove that one or the other is not necessary. <<If any kind soul would take it upon themselves to educate me in this matter I would be most grateful. Steve McClellan~~M15~#152~~Chicago >> Hope this helps. You might want to consult some sailing books for graphical representations of the above. Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe'

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Re: M_Boats: RE: M_Boats: Questions on M15 ri gging – Bent bolt
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

In a message dated 2/4/03 10:58:25 AM, Tom.Smith(a)itron.com writes: << I agree with Connie. I recently diassembled shroud and forestay and the bolt through my mast is straight... t >> Yes, and Jerry Montgomery said that it should be straight. Scott

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RE: M_Boats: Questions on M15 rigging – Bent bolt
by Smith, Tom 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

I agree with Connie. I recently diassembled shroud and forestay and the bolt through my mast is straight... t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar -----Original Message----- From: chbenneck(a)juno.com [mailto:chbenneck@juno.com] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 7:11 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Questions on M15 rigging – Bent bolt Hi Hank, You are correct in your assumption. The bolt is just a standard stainless steel bolt. If the bolt has a bend in it, then there must have been some severe loading on the forestay at some point in time. I had a similar problem, and replaced the bolt on my M15 too. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats This message was scanned for viruses.

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RE: M_Boats: Spinnaker questions
by Smith, Tom 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

Hi Steve. I believe the block for the spin halyard is located about a foot above where the headstay enters the mast, but I'll measure tonight and let you know for sure. Yes to where the spin tack attaches. And yes you should have a downhaul (and a topping lift for the pole as well, for that matter). You will probably find that the spin pole should be longer than a whisker pole. I'm making some of these comments from experience, and some from research. I've not installed the hardware to fly my spinnaker, but I'm in the process. It seems rigging a spinnaker is as much art as mechanics, as there are different ways to do almost everything. One thing you might consider, which solves many problems, is use a cruising spinnaker rather that one traditionally rigged. Much easier to handle, and uses less hardware... t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar -----Original Message----- From: s.mcclellan(a)attbi.com [mailto:s.mcclellan@attbi.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:31 AM To: MBoats Listserver Subject: M_Boats: Spinnaker questions I bought a spinnaker to use on my M15. I have a couple of questions for anyone who may be more experienced than myself with using spinnakers. (I never have!) I need to attach a block to the mast for the spinnaker halyard, above the forestay attachment. Does anyone have an idea how far above the forestay the block should be attached? Another question is, what should I use as the attachment point for the tack of the sail? The same piece of hardware that the forestay and jib attach to? Finally, when rigging it, should I use a downhaul or some other rigging other than simply the halyard and sheets? (I realize I'll want to use a whisker pole to the clew, right? If any kind soul would take it upon themselves to educate me in this matter I would be most grateful. Steve McClellan~~M15~#152~~Chicago _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats This message was scanned for viruses.

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Spinnaker questions
by s.mcclellan＠attbi.com 04 Feb '03

04 Feb '03

I bought a spinnaker to use on my M15. I have a couple of questions for anyone who may be more experienced than myself with using spinnakers. (I never have!) I need to attach a block to the mast for the spinnaker halyard, above the forestay attachment. Does anyone have an idea how far above the forestay the block should be attached? Another question is, what should I use as the attachment point for the tack of the sail? The same piece of hardware that the forestay and jib attach to? Finally, when rigging it, should I use a downhaul or some other rigging other than simply the halyard and sheets? (I realize I'll want to use a whisker pole to the clew, right? If any kind soul would take it upon themselves to educate me in this matter I would be most grateful. Steve McClellan~~M15~#152~~Chicago

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