October 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Anchors
by Harvey Wilson 24 Oct '02

24 Oct '02

Hi Sandra.. >> Is there an anchor type which is considered good for all type bottom surfaces or do you need one for every type bottom surface you are going to be sailing over? What is the formula for calculating length of anchor rode? Appreciate any information you can give me.<< The danforth type is the most popular anchor...probably the smallest (4 lb?) would do for a M-15 in most instances. It doesn't work for all bottoms, however. Check out the West Marine or BoatUS catalogs (or the web sites). They have tutorial articles on most all phases of boating stuff, and they'll describe the anchors. Proper anchor rode is 7 feet of line per foot of water depth. They'll tell you why you need about 4 feet of chain to attach your anchor to the line. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294

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Re: M_Boats: New on the List
by Conbert H Benneck 24 Oct '02

24 Oct '02

Hi Kyle, Philosophy 101:

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M15 # 220
by Bill Riker 24 Oct '02

24 Oct '02

While talking a walk in the neighborhood of our future retirement house, located in Cochiti Lake, NM, I rounded a corner and happened on an M-15, mast up, sitting on a trailer! The mast-up is easily explained by the fact that the town has underground utilities and no large trees (5600 ft up in the desert). The lake is across the road, less than a mile from where it was parked. Inspection revealed hull number 220. I have a list of all the M-15s I have come accross, but 220 isn't among them. There are a couple of 17s in NM, including one that was in a slip at Cochiti Lake a couple of years ago. M-15 number 342 is in NM, as is a boat in Cedar Crest. I am curious to know who has #220 at Cochiti. Thanks! Bill Riker wriker(a)mindspring.com 412-341-7198

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RE: M_Boats: New on the List
by Morris, Giles 23 Oct '02

23 Oct '02

Hi Kyle... Here are some thoughts, and they're probably worth about as much as you're paying for them! To give you some context for these thoughts, I have a Montgomery 15 (not 17) and a somewhat larger, much heavier, Vancouver 25. It's sometimes hard to define "better", and this seems especially so with sailboats. It's really a matter of what is best at doing the job you want it to do. Having said that, one of my boats (Dolphin) is clearly unsuitable for the purpose that I bought her for -- except that as soon as I saw her, I knew "this is the one". What does this mean? Dunno... Probably just "buy the one you want". There is no rational, practical reason to own a sailboat, so the only way that it can make sense is if it gives you pleasure -- and that is subjective. It's a pity that we focus on length (usually SLOA -- defined as sales length over all) as the defining number for a boat. I think that displacement (weight) is a better measure, and this puts the Hunter (I assume that you meant the 212) at 1800 pounds is actually not much bigger that the M-17 at 1600 pounds. To give you another example, Dolphin at 25ft LOD (length on deck) weighs 7000-8000 pounds, while a Hunter 270 is probably a foot or so longer but weighs 5000 pounds. They're designed for different jobs: Dolphin was designed to take two people anywhere in the world, while the Hunter is designed for a family to go sailing. Which is better? It depends. I just saw some Hunters at the Annapolis show, and I can tell you that they are absolutely, positively not as well designed or well built as the Montgomery. No question. Not in the same league. Does it matter? Well, the Montgomery will last longer and be easier to look after. It has the potential to give you more pleasure just by existing. The Hunter might (I'm guessing here) have more room inside, but (guessing again) the M-17 will have "better" space. As to where they can be used... Don't know about the 17, but I know that a 15 has crossed from California to Hawaii -- and I'll mention here that the Great Lakes can be as threatening as most places outside the Southern Ocean. The Hunter uses water as ballast, which is a great idea in some ways but (IMHO) has some serious drawbacks. You might want to consider a used boat. A new boat salesman will tell you something like "there's always something that needs fixing on a used boat", and he's right. But he forgot to mention that the same thing is true of a new boat. Giles Morris Arlington VA Vancouver 25 "Dolphin" Montgomery 15 "Umiaq" Sundry small craft

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RE: M_Boats: New on the List
by Enlow, Kyle S 23 Oct '02

23 Oct '02

Have you ever sailed yours off shore? Kyle -----Original Message----- From: Irv Kooris [mailto:kooris@rcn.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:55 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: M_Boats: New on the List Welcome Kyle, The M17 is much better built, more seaworthy, has beautiful lines, more comfortable cockpit, and the list will go on from here.... I have a M17 Irv Kooris -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-admin(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Enlow, Kyle S Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 3:41 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: New on the List It was suggested when I signed up for the list that I post an email about myself and my boat. First, I don't have a boat I only dream of having one. I have sailed up wind surfers in the lakes of Indiana and I have sailed with a friend on his 18 ft prindle cat in the bay at Mobile AL. So you may ask why did I sign up for the list. I am very interested in sailing and I hope to one day buy a boat. I would like to start with a small boat I could trailer to many destinations like Florida or the Great Lakes. Any way it will be some time before I actually can realize this dream. I have two young children and they take much of my time. I like what I have read about the M17 but can some of you tell me why it is better that say a Hunter 21. They are about the same price new. I notice Hunter places a rating on their boats for the types of use. Obviously they don't recommend the 21 for off shore use how about the m17? Thanks Kyle

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RE: M_Boats: New on the List
by Enlow, Kyle S 23 Oct '02

23 Oct '02

Thanks for the information. One thing that I have found when I purchase something is that I am much better off getting what I what the first time. That way I only have to cry once, when I write the check. If one doesn't purchase what they want the first time they have to go through the pain of selling the current item and buying the next. I am spending a great deal of time researching sailing boats. That way when I buy I will only have to cry once. I really can see my self doing any passages but I would like to be able to sail in the ocean and not just be limited to protected waters. Sounds like the m17 would be more suited for this than say a hunter or Catalina. Thanks for your comments Kyle -----Original Message----- From: Morris, Giles [mailto:giles.morris@unisys.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 3:31 PM To: 'montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com' Subject: RE: M_Boats: New on the List Hi Kyle... Here are some thoughts, and they're probably worth about as much as you're paying for them! To give you some context for these thoughts, I have a Montgomery 15 (not 17) and a somewhat larger, much heavier, Vancouver 25. It's sometimes hard to define "better", and this seems especially so with sailboats. It's really a matter of what is best at doing the job you want it to do. Having said that, one of my boats (Dolphin) is clearly unsuitable for the purpose that I bought her for -- except that as soon as I saw her, I knew "this is the one". What does this mean? Dunno... Probably just "buy the one you want". There is no rational, practical reason to own a sailboat, so the only way that it can make sense is if it gives you pleasure -- and that is subjective. It's a pity that we focus on length (usually SLOA -- defined as sales length over all) as the defining number for a boat. I think that displacement (weight) is a better measure, and this puts the Hunter (I assume that you meant the 212) at 1800 pounds is actually not much bigger that the M-17 at 1600 pounds. To give you another example, Dolphin at 25ft LOD (length on deck) weighs 7000-8000 pounds, while a Hunter 270 is probably a foot or so longer but weighs 5000 pounds. They're designed for different jobs: Dolphin was designed to take two people anywhere in the world, while the Hunter is designed for a family to go sailing. Which is better? It depends. I just saw some Hunters at the Annapolis show, and I can tell you that they are absolutely, positively not as well designed or well built as the Montgomery. No question. Not in the same league. Does it matter? Well, the Montgomery will last longer and be easier to look after. It has the potential to give you more pleasure just by existing. The Hunter might (I'm guessing here) have more room inside, but (guessing again) the M-17 will have "better" space. As to where they can be used... Don't know about the 17, but I know that a 15 has crossed from California to Hawaii -- and I'll mention here that the Great Lakes can be as threatening as most places outside the Southern Ocean. The Hunter uses water as ballast, which is a great idea in some ways but (IMHO) has some serious drawbacks. You might want to consider a used boat. A new boat salesman will tell you something like "there's always something that needs fixing on a used boat", and he's right. But he forgot to mention that the same thing is true of a new boat. Giles Morris Arlington VA Vancouver 25 "Dolphin" Montgomery 15 "Umiaq" Sundry small craft

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New on the List
by Enlow, Kyle S 23 Oct '02

23 Oct '02

It was suggested when I signed up for the list that I post an email about myself and my boat. First, I don't have a boat I only dream of having one. I have sailed up wind surfers in the lakes of Indiana and I have sailed with a friend on his 18 ft prindle cat in the bay at Mobile AL. So you may ask why did I sign up for the list. I am very interested in sailing and I hope to one day buy a boat. I would like to start with a small boat I could trailer to many destinations like Florida or the Great Lakes. Any way it will be some time before I actually can realize this dream. I have two young children and they take much of my time. I like what I have read about the M17 but can some of you tell me why it is better that say a Hunter 21. They are about the same price new. I notice Hunter places a rating on their boats for the types of use. Obviously they don't recommend the 21 for off shore use how about the m17? Thanks Kyle

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Re: M_Boats: Anchors
by Sandyal55＠aol.com 22 Oct '02

22 Oct '02

Sandra; The right type and weight of the anchor is determined by where you sail and the bottom type. I had 3 rodes. 100' + 150' + and 300' . Each had about 20' of 3/8th chain. This was for a 23' sailboat. I also had 3 anchors because I anchored in mud, sand and rocky bottoms. I recommend that you ask experienced folks in your local area for good info. Ask several people, as one person may have preferences that aren't valid. The 300' rode was for Lake Mead where coves could be 50' deep. Have fun; Sandy

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Anchors
by Seawitch 22 Oct '02

22 Oct '02

As a new boat owner, I am naturally needing to purchase an anchor. What is the right weight anchor to get for a 750lb boat? Is there an anchor type which is considered good for all type bottom surfaces or do you need one for every type bottom surface you are going to be sailing over? What is the formula for calculating length of anchor rode? Appreciate any information you can give me. ===== Time for a cool change! Sandra __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

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Re: M_Boats: Headsail clew attachemnt - flush to the deck or on a pendant abo...
by Saltm17＠aol.com 21 Oct '02

21 Oct '02

Ron, Keeping the foot of the sail on the deck is a real advantage when racing. Using a sail cut for use on a pennent makes for safer sailing because you can see other boats more clearly. With the foot of the sail on the deck you are blind to traffic comming at you from that direction. Some genoas have a see thru plastic panel sewn in so you can see somewhat. You could also get a genoa cut so the tack is on the deck, but the foot is cut at an angle so you can see more under it. These use to be called cruising sails. It really comes down to personal choice. If you are sailing an an area with a lot of boats a deck-sweeping genoa would require you to keep a very good watch out for other boats. If you are interested in performance then the deck-sweeper will generate more boat speed. John Edwards M 17 #372 "Miss T"

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