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Weight of M17 and trailer
by John Schinnerer 24 Sep '15

24 Sep '15

PS - weighed my M17 and trailer on the way to the lake, at a certified truck scale. Shows 2120 for boat and trailer, and 3840 for my Subaru. The Subaru weight is a little high per spec, so maybe the boat/trailer was as much as 2220. Not sure how those big truck scales handle smaller loads. I just parked it where they told me to and that's what the result was. I'll try and weight the trailer alone sometime eventually. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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23rd Season Sail
by George Iemmolo 24 Sep '15

24 Sep '15

Went sailing this afternoon. Wind blowing from the E variable 1-2 K Wind clocking 180 Deg and back become becalmed in middle of S Pine lake. Powered back to marina area wind came up so I was able to sail into slip under full sail 2nd time this season:-). Heat 111 F in Cockpit, Humidity 17%, Barometer steady @ 29.26, Forecast Cloudy Sunny entire sail. Try again tomorrow Wind forecast blowing from the E @ 8 m/h. http://fms.ws/Qtiyr/41.61779N/86.75189W George Merry Helen II 97 M15 #602 "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"

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Re: M_Boats: M17 motor requirements/Cut-out transom
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

True - Two-stroke motors typically have smaller power heads. Our boat experienced the same issues with a narrow head 2-stroke 4 hp (no reverse) in the cut-out transom. Many years ago we had purchased a motor mount for a J-24 from Hall Spars - short story long - the mount was miss placed. SO I set out to make one with minor mod. to accommodate the 17 cut-out transom - I do not have a photo of it at hand but here is a link to the Hall Spars part - NFIW. http://www.hallspars.com/product_p/hr-j24-motormnt.htm Short bit of mast extrusion welded to 1/4" plate and HDPE mount block shaped to fit and cut away to lighten the part. Cost for home made part was +- $100 incl. welding, coating and fasteners. Modifications made were: adjust the mount plate angle to accommodate the angle of the transom (motor now sits parallel to the transom), and the Starboard plastic mount block was cut with a spade bit to accept the motor clamp screws. The metal part was powder coated and the piece has worked fine for years now. Engine rotates and sits properly re. the transom angle - rudder MAY still contact the prop as I did not want to offset the mount the distance away from the transom to clear the rudder blade - solution is to turn outboard in conjunction with the tiller when in tight conditions. No moving parts - true to Colin Chapman's credo - "Simplify, then add lightness" * *Credit to 'PaintBoy' for instilling that sailboat modifying philosophy to boat problem solving. Reason for all this OCD over a mount? - I hate ugly things hanging off the boat - motor does NOT need to lift to clear water in tilt mode with the mount. Engine is 20' long shaft. One can easily fabricate a 'prop guard' in the garage shop if you want extra bit of protection. Sorry for the rant - solution has worked well - does not wear out (no springs or moving parts) and was cheap. PM if you want a photo or dimensions of the one we built - Sailing Season in the desert starts today ! finally! Have Fun Go Sailing GO In a message dated 9/23/2015 5:02:31 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, tjarvi(a)esnm.us writes: I've got a new Mercury 3.5 4 stroke in the transom cut-out in my 17 flush deck that has no reverse gear and will not come close to rotating around to get sternway. I have two paddles on board for that. The engine only turns a few degrees before some part of it contacts the sides of the motor well. The engine also has to sit as for from the rudder as possible to port in the cut-out to allow the rudder to turn (tiller to starboard) without hitting the engine case or the prop hitting the board! It still will not turn fully in that direction. I haven't sailed the boat enough to determine how much of a liability that's going to be. I've only had it out once since the restoration and there were several little things that need to be tweaked that you can't know til the shakedown cruise :) 2 Strokes back in the day must have had a significantly smaller motor head. On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Can you flip an ob around for reverse if it sits in the cutout in the > transom without the prop hitting the stern of the boat? > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > The Honda 2 reverses by flipping the motor around. Not quite as > convenient > > as a shift lever, but only takes a few seconds. > > > > Rick > > M17 #633 > > Lynne L > > > > On Friday, September 18, 2015, <swwheatley(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > I have a 5 hp 2 stroke on my M17 and anything over 1/2 throttle just > > > buries the stern. (Yes, I could get a prop with less pitch, but I > rarely > > > use the motor so it hasn't been a priority). Based on that, I think 3.5 > > hp > > > would be adequate. The only issue is sub-4 hp motors do not have a > > reverse > > > gear. That may or may not be important to you. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "John Schinnerer" <john(a)eco-living.net <javascript:;>> > > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>> > > > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:32:39 PM > > > Subject: M_Boats: M17 motor requirements > > > > > > OK, changing the topic a bit based on this: > > > > > > On 09/18/2015 11:59 AM, Dave Scobie wrote: > > > > ...the 4HP Suzuki on my M17 is running at less than > > > > 50% to reach cruise speed. > > > > > > So what is anyone's experience on what HP outboard is adequate for an > > M17? > > > > > > Mine came with this nice, low hours Tohatsu 6hp sail pro model. It > seems > > > to me like overkill. > > > > > > And, with Tohatsu at least, no point downgrading to their 5hp or 4hp > > > because they are the same carcass, basically same size and weight. > > > > > > Looking at Evinrude, Mercury, Suzuki, Honda...all making the same basic > > > range of motors, same weight within a few pounds in HP class, etc. > > > > > > The break point is under 4 hp, where the 2.5-3.5 hp units are > > > significantly lighter and smaller. > > > > > > Any experiences welcome - what do you find adequate for your M17 > > > auxiliary motor needs? > > > > > > thanks, > > > John S. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > - Eco-Living - > > > Whole Systems Design Services > > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > > john(a)eco-living.net <javascript:;> - 510.982.1334 > > > http://eco-living.net > > > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > >

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Re: M_Boats: M17 motor requirements
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

In a message dated 9/23/2015 5:02:31 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, tjarvi(a)esnm.us writes: I've got a new Mercury 3.5 4 stroke in the transom cut-out in my 17 flush deck that has no reverse gear and will not come close to rotating around to get sternway. I have two paddles on board for that. The engine only turns a few degrees before some part of it contacts the sides of the motor well. The engine also has to sit as for from the rudder as possible to port in the cut-out to allow the rudder to turn (tiller to starboard) without hitting the engine case or the prop hitting the board! It still will not turn fully in that direction. I haven't sailed the boat enough to determine how much of a liability that's going to be. I've only had it out once since the restoration and there were several little things that need to be tweaked that you can't know til the shakedown cruise :) 2 Strokes back in the day must have had a significantly smaller motor head. On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Can you flip an ob around for reverse if it sits in the cutout in the > transom without the prop hitting the stern of the boat? > > On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > The Honda 2 reverses by flipping the motor around. Not quite as > convenient > > as a shift lever, but only takes a few seconds. > > > > Rick > > M17 #633 > > Lynne L > > > > On Friday, September 18, 2015, <swwheatley(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > > > > I have a 5 hp 2 stroke on my M17 and anything over 1/2 throttle just > > > buries the stern. (Yes, I could get a prop with less pitch, but I > rarely > > > use the motor so it hasn't been a priority). Based on that, I think 3.5 > > hp > > > would be adequate. The only issue is sub-4 hp motors do not have a > > reverse > > > gear. That may or may not be important to you. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "John Schinnerer" <john(a)eco-living.net <javascript:;>> > > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>> > > > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:32:39 PM > > > Subject: M_Boats: M17 motor requirements > > > > > > OK, changing the topic a bit based on this: > > > > > > On 09/18/2015 11:59 AM, Dave Scobie wrote: > > > > ...the 4HP Suzuki on my M17 is running at less than > > > > 50% to reach cruise speed. > > > > > > So what is anyone's experience on what HP outboard is adequate for an > > M17? > > > > > > Mine came with this nice, low hours Tohatsu 6hp sail pro model. It > seems > > > to me like overkill. > > > > > > And, with Tohatsu at least, no point downgrading to their 5hp or 4hp > > > because they are the same carcass, basically same size and weight. > > > > > > Looking at Evinrude, Mercury, Suzuki, Honda...all making the same basic > > > range of motors, same weight within a few pounds in HP class, etc. > > > > > > The break point is under 4 hp, where the 2.5-3.5 hp units are > > > significantly lighter and smaller. > > > > > > Any experiences welcome - what do you find adequate for your M17 > > > auxiliary motor needs? > > > > > > thanks, > > > John S. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > > -------------------------------------------- > > > - Eco-Living - > > > Whole Systems Design Services > > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > > john(a)eco-living.net <javascript:;> - 510.982.1334 > > > http://eco-living.net > > > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > > > > > > > >

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Refueling Underway
by David Grah 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

We happen to be out on the California Delta for a few days and are using our standard refueling system described a few years ago on this group. I am attaching a photo that I hope comes through. We use a 3.5 gallon gas can with a bulb pump attached to a gas cap on the motor that was sacrificed to have a hole drilled in the top for a fitting the hose from the bulb is connected to. When the motor starts to run out of fuel, we pump around 35 times to fill it up again. You can fill it before it runs out too. The gas can is secured in the back of the cockpit. We've refueled easily in rough conditions with the only spillage being what squirts out the vent hole I drilled when it's full. I wish there wasn't 3.5 gallons of gas in the cockpit with us, but I think it is the best place overall. This system has worked well on week long cruises. David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 - Sky Sent from my iPhone Sent from my iPhone

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Re: M_Boats: Motor shaft length on cut-out transom M17
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

The mount was a frequent response to the lack of room in the cutout for the shifter/throttle/tiller arm and some motors did not have enof room to rotate for 'reverse' operation - I installed a tiny fixed mount at the same height as the cut-out and use a 20" 4hp Evinrude Yachtwin (no reverse) - luckily solved all problems and adds minimum weight. GO In a message dated 9/13/2015 4:19:47 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, john(a)eco-living.net writes: Interesting to me because my M17 has the cutout but also a nice spring-loaded stainless mount. It came with a Tohatsu 6hp long shaft, which seems like overkill in both weight and HP - thoughts on that? But if I keep it for now, sounds like it would affect balance less if I remove the mount and put it in the cutout, yes? Assuming it tilts enough to clear the water and the cutout is wide enough for its head/throttle configuration. thanks, John S. On 09/06/2015 09:15 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: > for the old cutout transom M17s the Suzuki 4HP or 6HP (same motor, the 4HP > is just a 'de powered' 6HP ... the 6HP has the external tank option) is > great. the reason the Suzuki works great is the control/throttle arm is > set closer the center of the powerhead than other motors. a > control/throttle arm that 'sticks out to the side' is difficult to fit into > the transom cutout - do some measuring before you purchase a motor. > > DON'T, in my opinion, be tempted to put an outboard motor mount on the > transom. the boat will sail better with a motor mounted in the cutout (a > weight balance issue). when Jerry modified the hull mold, and make the new > deck mold, in '82 he removed the cutout because of 'market forces', not > because the transom mounted motor mounts are superior. > > a 20" will work fine ... a longer shaft could be a challenge as it will > drag in the water (maybe?). > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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Where to store Extrnal OB Gas Tank?
by Thomas Buzzi 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

Aft end of the cockpit sounds like the safest place. It wouldn't take much to add a couple of cleats to the seat fronts back there to support a frame with some nurseryman's cloth stapled to it. That would keep the tank in the shade and allow breezes to waft away any fumes from the tank while not adding much extra weight to the stern. Fair winds, Tom B

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Re: M_Boats: M17 motor requirements
by Thomas Buzzi 23 Sep '15

23 Sep '15

Timothy, My new 5 hp tohatsu just fits in the motor cut out on my 77' Monty 17. I had it on a spring loaded stand off type mount on the other side of the transom but with 60# of weight that far out I was concerned about fore and aft balance. As it is with the new motor in the cutout, the closest I can get the vertical propeller shaft is just about an inch out of plumb but I figure once I sit in the cockpit the boat will sink enough to bring the shaft perpendicualr to the water level. My old two stroke 4 hp volvo ob took up about half the cutout notch on my old 74' Monty 17. So, yes, the power heads on those were tiny compared to now a days. I do have the old spring loaded mount which thru bolts on the transom and another new spring mount rated for up to 20 hp for sale, by the way. I have found that putting the rudder hard over is seldom necessary and found also that if that becomes necessary by turning the motor also to parallel the rudder blade I can spin the boat on a dime. That also lessens the chance of doing a chop job on your rudder blade. When I am out sailing I have the motor tilted into the cockpit and the lower unit being above the water level does not contact the rudder blade until the rudder is way over which is really not needed. Have fun, go sailing, tell someone about it. Fair winds, Tom B

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M17 hull #14 Griselda for $1400
by Jeremy Bowman 22 Sep '15

22 Sep '15

My boat is in ventura county, CA. I know it's quite a low price but I don't have time or energy to wait for the right buyer while showing the boat to many people. It's one of the original fixed keel boats. It comes on a good trailer but I'm keeping the motor at this price. I'm trying to move to Texas and can leave CA as soon as I sell the boat. Check out this link for my Craigslist ad: http://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/5221961912.html

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M17 boat (stands) propping locations?
by Bill Ruth 22 Sep '15

22 Sep '15

Dave Scobie- I want to check on my center board and work in the bottom of my Boat. I plan on jacking up my M17 on its trailer, placing two 4x10 beams (supported on vertical 6x6post that are securely connected) one each just forward and aft of the centerboard/keel and lowering the trailer so the boat is supported at three locations in line on each beam as if there is six boat stands. Will those six in line locations hold the boat's weight without stressing the hull? Bill Ruth

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