May 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Learning Curve
by chbenneck＠juno.com 29 May '04

29 May '04

Hi George, I too have a Forespar Tiller Extension and the lock box in the side wall of the cockpit. I thought it would be ideal for holding course when single handing: which it does very nicely..........and for holding the tiller in a fixed position when at the marina dock. This latter use was a total failure. The wash of outboard powered water ski boats; and PWC put such a strain on the rudder / tiller that it split the tiller allowing the screws holding the small Forespar fitting in the tiller to fall out - and the Forespar Tiller Extension was just hanging in the breeze the next time I got to the boat. Apparently waves roll the boat so severely that something has to give in the rigid Forespar / tiller / rudder system, and the weakest link was the Forespar tiller fitting itself - held in placed with two small 1/2 inch screws...... So, back to the drawing board. Now I just use the Forespar Tiller Extension as an autopilot when raising or lowering sail, or to go below to get a sweater or a beer. At the dock, I now fasten the tiller with bungee cords. They can move; but they keep the tiller / rudder from moving too much. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO

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RE: M_Boats: Another Happiest Day,
by Hughston, Larry 29 May '04

29 May '04

G. Burmeyer, I am a want-to-be M-15 owner (someday). I am based in Sacramento CA and I would like to know if you know of any M-15s for sale anywhere in the western states. The more I see the more I know that the M-15 is the right sailboat for me....no more scratch builds for me!!! Thanks, Larry Hughston in Sacramento. -----Original Message----- From: G Burmeyer [mailto:burmeyer@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 9:52 AM To: Montgomery Boats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Another Happiest Day, Hi Rick, Congratulations on your new M15. I, too, am a recent owner of an M15 which I've unfortunately only sailed a couple of times so far, but my sense of the boat is that it's everything all these enthusiastic folks on the list have said it is. As far as rigging your boat, have you checked out the MSOG site with Jerry's entertaining article on rigging a newly delivered M15? It can be found under the "Meet the M boats" tab. Basic stuff, but might give you some insight...although, from your posts, it seems as though your boat has been customized. There are also a couple of useful launch and retrieval checklists posted on the site. Best luck with the rowing set up. --George Burmeyer M15 #385 On 5/28/04 6:02 AM, "Rick Langer" <farreach(a)optonline.net> wrote: > Hi Don, > I'd like that launch checklist. I've only been out two times and I > agree with you. The first things I needed were a tiller tie down and a > topping lift. I used what I think is a spinnaker halyard as a topping > lift and for a tie down a line from stern cleat to stern cleat with a > couple of wraps around the tiller. This worked moderately well, but > surely not the final solution. Maybe you could explain your bungee and > jam cleat system? The reefing lines seem to be all there and I should > work out a procedure before I need to reef. The sculling oar is > mostly for fun. I'm surprised that you say I can't row an M15. I had > planned to install oar locks, again because I like to row. I had a > 26', 6000#, full keel boat that I rowed with 10' oars. Now that was > difficult, but I thought the M15 would row nicely. > > Thanks, > Rick Langer > M15 #337 > Hudson River > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Learning Curve
by Rick Langer 28 May '04

28 May '04

Connie, The "learning curve" is right. There's more blocks, fairleads and cleats on my M15's deck then I know what to do with. I've worked out the jib and main halyards to the cockpit and the working jib sheets seem to work well through the fairleads on the cabin roof, but the 170% genoa sheets still have me a little puzzled. I led them through fairleads on deck at the rear of the windows. This worked somewhat, but when sheeted in all the way they pulled down hard on the leech leaving the foot rather baggy. I tried running the sheets through the permanently mounted blocks at the aft end of the toe rail. This worked very well, with nice sail shape, but the sheets were not long enough to go through tacks rigged this way and there didn't seem to be a way to cleat them off. Another issue is the traveler. I rigged it through the eyes on each side of the stern and the mainsheet block on the boom. This worked well enough on all tacks except close hauled. I wanted a way to pull the boom more to windward and found that if I pulled the boom by hand to windward that I could point better. Is this the correct way to rig the traveler or are those permanent blocks at the aft end of the toe rail somehow used for pulling the boom sideways? On second look at the flotation, I see the logs you mentioned under the Styrofoam which I suspect was added by the original owner. Was there ever concerns on this list that the M15s didn't have enough flotation? A solar powered Nicro vent seems like a good solution in conjunction with louvered hatchboards, but I'd really prefer an opening hatch up forward. I wonder if anyone on the list has tried to install one? Thanks for all your help, Rick Langer > Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 11:12:02 -0400 > From: chbenneck(a)juno.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: Another Happiest Day > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <20040523.111205.2152.1.chbenneck(a)juno.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Congratulations Rick on your new and improved toy! > > Now the fun begins, but first you have to go through the "learning curve" > and become familiar with how to raise the mast and take it down; how all > the rigging functions; - and most important of all - remember to have the > centerboard UP and cleated when putting the boat back on the > trailer................ > > Make yourself a sign: "C/B UP on Retrieve" until it is second nature. > > Hatch boards: As I told you I rebuilt mine using teak plywood, and added > a vent louver in the top board that I bought at WEST. > > Fore deck vent: I have a Nicro Low Profile vent, but one of the Nicro > flush vents (solar powered) may be a preferable solution because they > supply needed ventilation, and keep the water out. > > The problem I have is that if the boat is at the marina; it rains and the > wind blows; without a Dorade box under the vent, water goes down the open > hole and your mattress gets a damp spot. > > Flotation foam: It's just loose Styrofoam logs lying under the cockpit > sole, or stuffed in the forward compartment at the bow. > > Remove the screwed down cover on yours, and gain access to the extra > storage space. That's where I stow my large Fortress anchor, chain and > rode; and where my motorcycle battery will reside. > > You need weight forward in the vessel to keep from dragging the transom > through the water. > > The web comments are that it is nice to have the bow pulpit. I don't, > but now that I am used to the motion of the boat as I move around on the > fore deck, it doesn't bother me not having it - but, it sure is a nice > place to tie off a jib halyard while raising the mast; or as a hand hold > for someone on a dock who is lending a hand as you come in.............. > easier to grab than the shrouds. > > If your new M15 has the normal length tiller, sail with it first, and > then you will understand why I built my tiller extension. You might want > to use my idea just making it to a height at your knee that you find > comfortable. > > At present mine is about 98% correct. I'd like it a tad higher at the > handhold end to optimize it - but now that I have it built and it works, > do I really want to redo it again for a 2% improvement? I guess that > depends on how many rainy days we have, since that sort of thing is a > rainy day project. > > Rick, do you have a deep sail locker and a shallow one as mine had before > I modified it? > > If you need any help of advice, just yell! > > Connie > >

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RE: M_Boats: Another Happiest Day,
by Smith, Tom 28 May '04

28 May '04

Hate to disagree with Don (well, no, I don't mind being disagreeable at all actually), but rowing an M15 is certainly an option. I've thought about it many times, but never seriously enough to work out a suitable rowing station. I'd be interested in any progress you make in this regard Rick. The bungee and jam cleat setup works well and has minimal moving parts. I tie two one foot diameter bungee loops and connect them with two foot piece of line. Drop the loops over the stern cleats with the line stretched between, across the cockpit. The jam cleat is fastened on the under side of the tiller (jam side forward)--maybe 8 inches back from the working end. You simply stretch the line forward and engage in on the jam cleat. You'll want to discover the exact dimensions of the loops and line yourself, but there's not much science to it. I guess the thing to remember is the line should be stretched taunt from one side to the other. That way there's sufficient tension to lock the tiller in place when the line's pulled forward and engaged with the jam cleat. Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15--345 Chukar M17--064 Unnamed -----Original Message----- From: Rick Langer [mailto:farreach@optonline.net] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 6:03 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Another Happiest Day, Hi Don, I'd like that launch checklist. I've only been out two times and I agree with you. The first things I needed were a tiller tie down and a topping lift. I used what I think is a spinnaker halyard as a topping lift and for a tie down a line from stern cleat to stern cleat with a couple of wraps around the tiller. This worked moderately well, but surely not the final solution. Maybe you could explain your bungee and jam cleat system? The reefing lines seem to be all there and I should work out a procedure before I need to reef. The sculling oar is mostly for fun. I'm surprised that you say I can't row an M15. I had planned to install oar locks, again because I like to row. I had a 26', 6000#, full keel boat that I rowed with 10' oars. Now that was difficult, but I thought the M15 would row nicely. Thanks, Rick Langer M15 #337 Hudson River _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats This message was scanned for viruses!!

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Another Happiest Day,
by Rick Langer 28 May '04

28 May '04

Hi Don, I'd like that launch checklist. I've only been out two times and I agree with you. The first things I needed were a tiller tie down and a topping lift. I used what I think is a spinnaker halyard as a topping lift and for a tie down a line from stern cleat to stern cleat with a couple of wraps around the tiller. This worked moderately well, but surely not the final solution. Maybe you could explain your bungee and jam cleat system? The reefing lines seem to be all there and I should work out a procedure before I need to reef. The sculling oar is mostly for fun. I'm surprised that you say I can't row an M15. I had planned to install oar locks, again because I like to row. I had a 26', 6000#, full keel boat that I rowed with 10' oars. Now that was difficult, but I thought the M15 would row nicely. Thanks, Rick Langer M15 #337 Hudson River

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" DEAR JERRY"
by Rick Langer 28 May '04

28 May '04

Dear Jerry, Yesterday I sailed my 1985 M15 (hull # 337) for the second time, maybe a little too much sail (170% genoa and full main) with increasing winds and gusting. Just the way I like it (Ha, Ha). I got scared a couple of times, but then found that the boat stiffened up and I started to have some fun. I'm not a design expert, but I have sailed for many years, in many boats and I must tell you that this boat that you designed and built is a wonderful boat. I am grateful to you and feel very lucky to have found this little gem. Thank you, Rick Langer Hudson River

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Re: M_Boats: Trailer Tires--again
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 27 May '04

27 May '04

Something was drastically wrong if a tire wore out in 2000 miles of trailering. That was a cheap tire issue, not a bias or radial issue. Those Marathons STs still move around a lot more than bias tires and will show it big when you have an unbalanced rig or emergency stop. I replaced old bias tires with Marathons and had massive sway that never happened before. Changing the rigs weight and balance helped but not enough to make it track straight like bias tires. I took them off in a matter of weeks and replaced back with bias trailer tires. I didn't like eating the cost but it was that much difference in the scare factor. Premium bias trailer tires cost more than the Marathons too. That was on a 20' Proline outboard with a properly sized trailer towed behind a full size American V8 auto with self adjusting air shocks. That was a 4500lb boat rig and I doubt a 15 Mont would move the car around no matter how much give the tires had...but I thought sharing the info was a good idea anyway.

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Trailer Tires--again
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 27 May '04

27 May '04

Harvey et al., Regarding the radial vs. bias tire issue: 1) There has been much discussion regarding radial tires having more sway than comparably sized bias ply tires. It is absolutely true that *passenger car radials* have more sidewall flex, and this will translate to more sway at the trailer. Dedicated trailer radials (with 'ST' prefix = 'Special Trailer'), on the other hand, have reinforced sidewalls commensurate with their load rating. A good trailer radial will outlast most bias ply tires, and will provide reduced rolling resistance and a better ride. 2) If you have an M15 with 12" wheels/tires and want radials, you are probably stuck with passenger car versions, as the smallest true trailer radial I could find was in the 13" size. I have 12" Goodyear Tiempo Radials (passenger car) on My M15 trailer (Trailrite), and the only time I have noticed any sway at all was during an extreme evasive maneuver. The improvement in ride quality was enormous, and even after many thousands of miles, show virtually no wear. Still, if trailer radials would have been available, I would have purchased them instead. 3) If you have an M17 with 13" or larger wheels/tires, you have several choices. I am partial to the Goodyear Marathon Trailer Radials. These can be had in 13" for about $50.00/per tire (plus shipping) from tirerack.com. Given the added weight of the M17, I would spring the extra few dollars for the real trailer radial (I am putting four new 15" load range 'D' Goodyear Marathon Radials on my Flicka trailer, and they are still quite reasonable at about $80.00/tire). 4) Beware cheap (and some not so cheap) bias ply tires. I went through two sets of 12" bias ply tires in less than 2000 miles when I first bought my M15. To quote my local trailer shop guru: "Most bias ply tires are junk...only a few are any good at all." If you do go bias, make sure to get a name brand with a nationally recognized warranty. In many cases you will pay more for a mediocre bias tire than a good trailer radial. 5) Match the tire load rating (a, b, c, d, etc.) to your total boat/trailer/gear/fuel/etc. The difference in price between a 'b' and 'c' rated tire is mere pennies. On the other hand, do not buy tires that are grossly overrated for your load, as the ride will be punishing, and running higher rated tires at reduced pressures as compensation might result in heat related failure. $0.02 Scott M15 #478 'bebe' PSC Flicka In a message dated 5/27/04 9:32:34 AM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com writes: >Hi Gang... > >Finally got around to freeing the bolts on the trailer...no big deal with >an impact wrench <whew!!> > >Now for a new pair of tires. Someone mentioned WalMart having Douglas >radials for about $30 or thereabouts. > >No one at my WalMart, or even their 800 customer service number knows about >these, or any other trailer tires. > >I can get them at the local tire store, but $135/pair out the door is a >tad >steep if I can find cheaper ones somewhere. > >Any ideas?? > > Harvey/ Ga

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Re: M_Boats: Trailer tires..
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 27 May '04

27 May '04

I just bought Douglas radials at Walmart for my daughters Civic but didn't see a Douglas tire specially labeled for trailers. Walmart had trailer tires mounted on rims in the sporting goods area but they were bias tires and not radials. I stopped using radials for my trailer boats because they sway easier. Here's a link for mail-order trailer tires with rims...pretty reasonable if you want regular trailer tires. www.trailerpartsandsales.com/trailer_tires.htm

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Re: M_Boats: San Juan Rendezvous
by Larry Yake 27 May '04

27 May '04

I wanted to re-post this to the list one last time before the San Juan Rendezvous. The trip is just over a week away now, but you can still get in on the fun. We will be on D dock at Cap Sante Boat Haven in Anacortes Friday and Saturday if you want to drop by, or if you can join us for part or all of the trip, let me know and I'll get you added to the reservations. On Fri, 7 May 2004 21:25:56 -0700 Larry Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> writes: > The San Juan Rendezvous is only 4 weeks away, but it's not too late > to > sign up if you want to join us for a great time. At last count, we > have > 8 boats confirmed; 3 M15's, 2 M17's, 2 M23's, and a NonSuch 28. > Others > will be dropping by for the weekend just to see the boats and get > acquainted. > > Most of us will be launching at Anacortes on June 4th, but > latecomers > could launch June 5th or 6th and still join us as we head for the > islands. The opening weekend we will be day sailing in the > Anacortes > area, shopping for those last minute items, socializing on the > docks, > checking out all the M boats, and doing a group dinner in town. > Then > Sunday we'll head out with the tide for the islands with stops > planned > during the week at Blakely Island, Spencer Spit, Shaw Island, > Friday > Harbor, Stuart Island, and then either heading up to the outer > islands > (Sucia, Matia, Patos), or if the forecast isn't so good, Deer > Harbor, > English Bay, and Fisherman Bay. > > Don't miss this opportunity to see the full line of Montgomerys and > meet > your fellow listers. You can contact me off-list if you want more > information or to sign up! > > Larry Yake > M17, #200 > Tullamore > leyake(a)juno.com > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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