May 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Montgomery 17 for sale
by n9ca 30 May '04

30 May '04

Montgomery 17, S/N 604 with M 6-10 dinghy with oar locks and oars. Brass handles on transom and rope with handle on prow. Located in Signal Mountain, Tennessee. (10 miles north of Chattanooga on U.S. 127) $17,500. This is in excess of $6000 under the original cost of the boat and added equipment. The boat is in new condition, as is all the listed equipment, which has been used very little. It has always been kept under cover except when in use. An additional winch was added to the trailer which is used in combination with a beam, allowing the mast to be raised single handed with very little effort required. Pacific galvanizrd trailer with spare tire. Bronze port lights Factory electrical system overhead cabin light battery charger running lights cigarette lighter sockets 120 volt receptacle for use when connected to dock power steaming light foredeck light receptical for dock electrical power 25' dock power cable Honda 2HP long shaft four stroke outboard with 3 gallon external tank Mainsail with two reefs (have reefing hooks and lines) 100% jib (original) 150% tanbark genoa (brand new) 2 floating winch handles Roller reefing Lazy jacks (currently not installed, but the cleats and pulleys are installed Boom vang Swim platform with telescoping ladder Whale gusher 10 bilge pump Sheet-to-tiller self steering equipment Eagle fish finder (used as depth gauge) Lighted Richie compas mounted in bottom hatch board 2 each stainless steel gimballed single burner propane stoves and accessories (these mount on either side of the forward bulkhead in the cockpit. I fabricated shields to protect the fiberglass from the heat, but the shields do not get hot, so this is probably 'over-kill' but it seemed like a good idea) Dust to dawn anchor light Hummingbird VHF with adapter to use boat's battery Port-a potty Floating telescoping boat hook Tiller lock 2 Danforth type and 1 Bruce type anchors and two 150' , 3/8" lines with vinyl coated chains ( each anchor line is contained in anon-tangling mesh bag, in similar fashion to the method used in rock climbing) List of emergency equipment: canister of flares and flare pistol 1 million candle power spotlight two type 1 PFD's two type 2 PFD's two type 4 PFD's two jack lines ( connects to factory installed bronze eye pads. One on the bow, and one in the cockpit) 5 harnesses and tethers Approximately 25 cubic feet of styrofoam installed under the forward berths and the aft deck Radar reflector with lines and pulleys for raising and lowering. The same lines are used for the black anchor ball.

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Bungee cord tiller tammer
by Rick Langer 30 May '04

30 May '04

Tom that seems like a pretty neat system. I'll try some bungees today. Has anyone tried an alternative to the jam cleat. Would a wood carved V-cleat attached to the top of the tiller work? You drop the line into the cleat and the spring of the bungee pulls it into the V. Rick Langer M15 #337 Hudson River

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Launch Check list
by Seawitch 30 May '04

30 May '04

In response to the request for launch check list, I am attaching the one I did for myself after having launched my M15 several times and always learning something new or forgetting something else. I laminated it, and have it cut down to about 3" by 12" that way I can carry it with me on the boat. It is an excel spread sheet for those who might have difficulty opening it. To add another word on trailer tires. Let me just remind those who were on the list last summer about the problem I had with the centerboard pin riding out of it's place. I contribute that to the washboard type vibration I was getting with the bias ply tires I had on my trailer. Once I got radials, all that miserable vibration went away. It was so bad that I thought I had a flat on the trailer, not so. Time for a cool change! Sandra(Seawitch #617)

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Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
by chbenneck＠juno.com 29 May '04

29 May '04

Rick, FWIW: In Yugoslavia the fishermen row their fishing boats standing up and they row facing forwards. They push on the oars to go forward, and this solves the old rowing problem: how can you see where you are going if you continuously have to look backwards? For short distance maneuvering an M15, this might be the best solution, but the height from the water to the cockpit coaming means you need very long oars if you want any rowing efficiency. ( long oars also make it difficult to get into a slip - which is why the continuously rotating HONDA 2 HP "oar" is so handy) Of course shorter oars might work too, but then you need round oarlocks ( or thole pins with a lanyard across the top of them) so that the oars can't jump out on the stroke. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Throw a couple of gallon jugs of water in the forward compartment as a temporary test for weight distribution. Your filled Porta-potti is too close to the CG of the M15: the water jugs forward adds to the lever arm from the CG - less weight = greater effect on boat trim. That's why my heaviest anchor; longest chain and rode live all the way forward; and where my motorcycle battery for GPS and CD power will also reside. Connie Connie Connie

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Re: M_Boats: Learning Curve
by chbenneck＠juno.com 29 May '04

29 May '04

Hi George, The Forespar box is closed, so no leakage into the boat possible - provided you put a sealer on the surface before screwing it in place. I find it does a nice job of holding a course, and being able to twist and change length means that you can fine tune your course holding. Two small jam cleats mounted on the P / S side of the cockpit (on the flat surface at the top) are used for holding and adjusting the bungee cord tiller holder; for maintaining a course, or when I leave the boat. Connie

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(no subject)
by Rick Langer 29 May '04

29 May '04

Stan, I'll try standing. I thought a board across the seats just aft of the mainsheet cleat might work and raising the seat up might work better. Thanks Rick Langer M15 #337 Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:26:03 -0400 From: Stanley Winarski <winarski(a)cox.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Another Happiest Day, To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <DC059B9F-B0DC-11D8-BE01-000A27DA78E6(a)cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Rick; Before installing a motor on Carol II we carried and used paddles quite successfully (as long as we were sailing on lakes) (Carol I, by the way, had been a canoe) . My wife would usually steer using the rudder and I'd sit with one leg over the side and paddle away. If the going got rough, she'd use the other paddle on the other side. Soon after moving to this area and getting caught on a receding tide a mile or so off shore with no wind and night falling, we invested in a motor. We still carry the paddles and occasionally still use them. Oars would be more efficient - you might want to consider a standing position or a stool resting on the cockpit floor - but your Montgomery will track very nicely. Stan Winarski M-15, #177, Carol II

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Learning Curve
by Rick Langer 29 May '04

29 May '04

Thanks George. Those fixed blocks at the aft end of the toe rails might be for spinnaker sheets, but if you go trough the the block and now heading forward with the bitter end, there is no jam cleats facing the correct way to secure the line. The forespar tiller extension seems like a nice solution. Connie has one and a lock box. If it is like the one I used, besides spinning in its recepticle it also articulates up and down so you can stand up and steer without pulling up on the tiller. I've been wanting to stand a couple of times and ended up pulling the rudder out of the water. Connie figured that one out. I took the never used porta potti out of my boat, but after my first sail I filled it with water and put it back in. I noticed the difference the second time out. "Yes, Connie, I'm gonna fill that front locker with all kinds heavy junk". But what about those styrofoam chunks in the locker? Were they put in by Jerry or an owner? Taking out styrofoam and replacing it with a hundred pounds of sinkables doesn't seem prudent. Rick Langer M15 #337 Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:52:49 -0700 From: G Burmeyer <burmeyer(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Learning Curve To: Montgomery Boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <BCDCCA81.1FCE%burmeyer(a)sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Rick, Agree with you regarding the really basic traveler on the M15 and I have been wondering if I could or should rig a simple block and cleat affair to the aft mainsheet block to hold the boom to weather when needed. (My boat, which is pretty much stock, has no blocks on the aft end of the toerail. Might it be those blocks are for spinnaker sheet and guy?) The first alterations to my boat were to remove most of the Styrofoam blocks which had been stuffed into the forward locker (I left the ones under the cockpit) and used that space to store some water bottles and a portable battery. I also added a Forespar adjustable tiller extension. This keeps my all-too-considerable weight forward in the cockpit and helps balance the boat fore and aft. So long as you keep the water outside the boat, there's no problem. (Thanks to Connie for his wise words on this subject.) An added bonus of the ball-end tiller extension is that is works pretty well as a tiller tamer by jamming the ball against the cockpit seats backs as long as I don't dance a jig on the boat. It works so well that I'm planning on putting in a "tiller lock box" which will hold the ball end securely in place. George M15 #385 On 5/28/04 7:02 AM, "Rick Langer" <farreach(a)optonline.net> wrote: > Connie, > > The "learning curve" is right. There's more blocks, fairleads and cleats on > my M15's deck then I know what to do with. I've worked out the jib and main > halyards to the cockpit and the working jib sheets seem to work well > through the fairleads on the cabin roof, but the 170% genoa sheets still > have me a little puzzled. I led them through fairleads on deck at the rear > of the windows. This worked somewhat, but when sheeted in all the way they > pulled down hard on the leech leaving the foot rather baggy. I tried running > the sheets through the permanently mounted blocks at the aft end of the toe > rail. This worked very well, with nice sail shape, but the sheets were not > long enough to go through tacks rigged this way and there didn't seem to be > a way to cleat them off. > > Another issue is the traveler. I rigged it through the eyes on each side of > the stern and the mainsheet block on the boom. This worked well enough on > all tacks except close hauled. I wanted a way to pull the boom more to > windward and found that if I pulled the boom by hand to windward that I > could point better. Is this the correct way to rig the traveler or are > those permanent blocks at the aft end of the toe rail somehow used for > pulling the boom sideways? > > On second look at the flotation, I see the logs you mentioned under the > Styrofoam which I suspect was added by the original owner. Was there ever > concerns on this list that the M15s didn't have enough flotation? > > A solar powered Nicro vent seems like a good solution in conjunction with > louvered hatchboards, but I'd really prefer an opening hatch up forward. I > wonder if anyone on the list has tried to install one? > > Thanks for all your help, > > Rick Langer

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RE: M_Boats: forespar tiller extension
by Smith, Tom 29 May '04

29 May '04

I found the forespar tiller extension w/box that came on a former boat cumbersome and inadequate for at least the reason Connie states and more (who really needs another hole in the boat?). The tiller tamer (Davis?) works better in my mind because there's some flexibility built into the system. A tamer came with the M17 we bought and I find I keep it connected and loosely tensioned sometimes just to put a little friction into the steering. In all, I prefer the bungee loop and line approach because it's cheap and simple, but the tamer on the 17 works okay so I use it. Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15--345 Chukar M17--064 Unnamed -----Original Message----- From: chbenneck(a)juno.com [mailto:chbenneck@juno.com] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 2:45 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Learning Curve Hi George, I too have a Forespar Tiller Extension and the lock box in the side wall of the cockpit. I thought it would be ideal for holding course when single handing: which it does very nicely..........and for holding the tiller in a fixed position when at the marina dock. This latter use was a total failure. The wash of outboard powered water ski boats; and PWC put such a strain on the rudder / tiller that it split the tiller allowing the screws holding the small Forespar fitting in the tiller to fall out - and the Forespar Tiller Extension was just hanging in the breeze the next time I got to the boat. Apparently waves roll the boat so severely that something has to give in the rigid Forespar / tiller / rudder system, and the weakest link was the Forespar tiller fitting itself - held in placed with two small 1/2 inch screws...... So, back to the drawing board. Now I just use the Forespar Tiller Extension as an autopilot when raising or lowering sail, or to go below to get a sweater or a beer. At the dock, I now fasten the tiller with bungee cords. They can move; but they keep the tiller / rudder from moving too much. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats This message was scanned for viruses!!

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Re: M_Boats: Another Happiest Day,
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 29 May '04

29 May '04

"Butcher Boy" a legendary 19th century workboat and said to be inspiration for Hess's Montgomery 17, was often rowed in calm weather. It was used to service ships by selling fresh groceries when they came into port, and was fast enough to win many races in yachting's infancy. Steve Tyree P-15 #2098 "Amy Ann" In a message dated 5/28/2004 8:08:25 AM Central Standard Time, farreach(a)optonline.net writes: Hi Don, I'd like that launch checklist. I've only been out two times and I agree with you. The first things I needed were a tiller tie down and a topping lift. I used what I think is a spinnaker halyard as a topping lift and for a tie down a line from stern cleat to stern cleat with a couple of wraps around the tiller. This worked moderately well, but surely not the final solution. Maybe you could explain your bungee and jam cleat system? The reefing lines seem to be all there and I should work out a procedure before I need to reef. The sculling oar is mostly for fun. I'm surprised that you say I can't row an M15. I had planned to install oar locks, again because I like to row. I had a 26', 6000#, full keel boat that I rowed with 10' oars. Now that was difficult, but I thought the M15 would row nicely. Thanks, Rick Langer M15 #337 Hudson River

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Tiller lock box
by Larry Yake 29 May '04

29 May '04

George, Here's a link to a photo that shows the "bungie-rope-bungie to jam cleat" style of tiller control which I copied from Tom Smith. It works great. Nothing to rig, just pop it on there. As you can see in the photo, I also installed a Forespar Tiller Lock box. Big mistake. I never use it. The knob on the tiller is very hard to get in and out of there, making it rather risky if you need to release it in a hurry. The bungie set-up has some give built in and you can override it easily if you need to. If you decide you do want a Forespar Tiller lock box, I have an extra I'll sell cheap. Larry http://www.nwpotters.org/2003trips/bh2003/derek/image049.htm

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