May 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: trailering with a clutch
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 02 May '04

02 May '04

Voice of (My) experience... >From my point of view, I much prefer the stick over auto when haveing to use a vehicle in a heavy duty manner. However, it's a matter of experience (practice) more than anything else. In my job, I drive a Cement Mixer Truck, with what may be called an 18 speed manual trans. With all of the various gearing options, it's really a six speed unloaded and when loaded, I'll utilize all of the gears depending upon load needs. Back to the question. The only real problem I see with the stick is the innitial take off up the ramp. It's handy to use the emergency (hand) brake as you let off the clutch and release the brake at the same time. If the truck had a foot operated Ebrake it's more difficult. With the hand model it takes a bit of co-ordination but smooth is very doable after a bit of practice. (Large trucks have a lever mounted at the right side just under the steering wheel which is effectively a hand operated air brake which does the same job. Professional drivers use this feature every day). General driving with Up shifting, stopping on hills, downshifting will all require practice, practice and more practice. The benefits of a stick? It used to be a stick would get lots better fuel mileage. However, with the invent of variable stall / locking torque converters, that isn't so much of an issue any longer. Durability can be an issue depending upon the model of the automatic considered. Some automatics aren't very strong. However, some sticks aren't all that strong either. Then there's the clutch. Fairly easy to replace on rear wheel drive vehicles and may last a long time if you make it through the practice sessions. The other side of the story... I drive a stick at work. The last thing I need is a personal vehicle with one. But it's not because they don't act good in a tow vehicle. So maybe preference plays a substantial role. Bill

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Re: M_Boats: ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by bownez＠juno.com 02 May '04

02 May '04

HI Listers, I took a look at the Flicka that was on E-Bay several years ago when it was for sale for $24K in Milwaukee. It was pretty rough and the trailer was a very shaky affair. It would have definately been a "project" boat. There has also been a lot of stories about proven blisters on early Flickas. Buyers beware. Hope to splash my M23 next week here in Minnesota. Later, Bones ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

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Mast Rake
by Howard Audsley 02 May '04

02 May '04

Just got the latest copy of SCA, and low and behold, "Miss T" is gracing the cover. Aside from the gorgeous boat, gorgeous setting, etc..... What stands out is she does have "a lot" of mast rake! So how much is "a lot". Using the beach as a horizontal reference, and the lighthouse as a vertical reference, and realizing the view is from about 20 to 30 degrees forward of the starboard beam, I'm measuring about 2 to 3 degrees of mast rake as viewed.....which is more like 3 or 4 degrees if viewed directly from the beam (spreaders nearly in line with the mast). This also assumes she was sitting approximately level at the exact moment John snapped the picture. Granted, this is all very crude....but what else do we have? Some of the more enlightened math whizzes may want to check my calculations, but to get that type of mast rake, assuming P (length of luff of the mainsail) is 19', then each degree of mast rake would equal about 4" of distance measured out from the mast at the boom. So if one wanted to get 3 or 4 degrees of mast rake, you could start by measuring off 12 to 16 inches out on the boom....then level the boat fore and aft and rake the mast until a plumb bob from the main halyard reached that range. Use that as a starting point and rake up or down from there? I think 12 inches would indeed be "a lot" of mast rake! Howard

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M-17 aux. motor
by larry parks 02 May '04

02 May '04

Howdy, Would a Honda 2 HP 4 cycle be enough motor for an aux. on the M-17, I like the size 28 lbs or the next size 5 HP at 61 lbs , but would that be to heavy and effect the sailing performance. Thanks, Larry _________________________________________________________________ Mothers Day is May 9. Make it special with great ideas from the Mothers Day Guide! http://special.msn.com/network/04mothersday.armx

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ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Honshells 02 May '04

02 May '04

Oh . . . That's painful, Bill . . . I own 1/3 of a PS Flicka with two partner families . . . We paid [a lot!] more for our 1978 . . . And Marquette is right in my back yard . . . We bought our Flicka in 1996, and she's been "on the hard" since 1999. We're just now putting her back in the water this Spring, since both my partners have sort of weathered the financial chaos and upheaval brought by new additions to their families . . . Would that the "partnership" had delayed its Flicka purchase for several years . . . Hindsight is 20/20 . . . --Craig Has everyone received his latest of issue of "Small Craft Advisor" with Miss T on the cover? Beautiful photo. And the latest "Good Old Boat" has the promised tribute to Lyle Hess featuring (Is that Miss T again?) a Monty 17' on trailer . . . It's a good month for armchair sailing, but there's so much to do to prepare for the real thing! --------- Original Message -------- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> To: "montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Not enough Monty Group mail... Date: 28/04/04 00:13 Hi All, Seems that there is a lull in MSOG Emails. Well, I found something worth mentioning. Seems that there are some Monty owners that also own PSC Flickas. I've looked at them and sailed a couple. Excellent Sailing ships. So, I happened upon the "possible deal of the day on Ebay - Item number: 2476193281 is a 1980 Flicka with trailor with a buy it now price of ONLY $12,500.00. She is in Marquette, Michigan. She's not for me... But I sure hope someone deserving ends up with her. Suppose the economy is driving the prices down? Seems very reasonable. I looked at the Flicka quite seriously just a year ago and didn't find any under 20K. And this one is with trailor! Have fun looking! Bill

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Subject: M_Boats: Not enough Monty Group mail...(Flickas)
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 01 May '04

01 May '04

Hi Bill, I am one of several Flicka (and Montgomery) owners on the list. I saw the Flicka on e-bay the day the auction started. I think this was either an anomaly, or there was something very wrong with the boat. It is very unusual indeed for any Flicka to sell that low, and especially one with the Yanmar 1GM diesel inboard. This boat also had furling, newer sails, etc. Closer scrutiny of the photos, however, did reveal what looks like extensive damage to the interior due to leaking ports (typical of the earlier boats with plastic ports). In addition, some earlier (pre-1989) Flickas had problems with severe blistering. If this boat had blisters in addition to the needed interior repairs (likely including the removal and replacement of all of the teak cabin sides and fitting of new ports, new cushions, etc.), the repair cost and time investment might make a $20k+ flicka look like a good deal. A rough range for Flickas (selling price--good to very good condition) is as follows: Early (1978-1982) outboard powered: $18k-$24k Early (1978-1982) inboard powered: $22k-$26k Mid production (1983-1987) outboard powered: $20k-$26k Mid production (1983-1988) inboard powered: $24k-$32k Late model (1989-1996) inboard powered: $29k-$45k There were several changes/improvements made to the boat during production, with the greatest changes occurring in 1983 when PSC switched to new molds. The last few Flickas made were topping out at nearly $80k with options. The e-bay boat was probably a good deal (closed at $12.5k), but I don't think it is representative of what is out there. I looked for five years (and about 40 boats) before buying. I set out to find an older boat needing a little work but ended up with a late model in very good shape. It was amazingly difficult to find one that was sound, didn't have extensive blistering, or hadn't been messed-up with needless and/or bad modifications. Having owned several larger boats, I should have known/remembered just how much each additional foot adds to the provisioning/maintenance/moorage costs. My Flicka (hardly a large boat) costs me at least 20 times more to keep/maintain than my M15. I still wouldn't give it up, but anyone considering such a move should do so with eyes wide open! Scott M15 #478 'bebe' PSC Flicka >Hi All, >Seems that there is a lull in MSOG Emails. >Well, I found something worth mentioning. Seems that there are some Monty > >owners that also own PSC Flickas. I've looked at them and sailed a couple. > >Excellent Sailing ships. >So, I happened upon the "possible deal of the day on Ebay - Item number: > >2476193281 is a 1980 Flicka with trailor with a buy it now price of ONLY > >$12,500.00. She is in Marquette, Michigan. She's not for me... But I sure >hope >someone deserving ends up with her. >Suppose the economy is driving the prices down? Seems very reasonable. >I >looked at the Flicka quite seriously just a year ago and didn't find any >under >20K. And this one is with trailor! >Have fun looking! >Bill

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Re: M_Boats: M-17 aux. motor
by chbenneck＠juno.com 01 May '04

01 May '04

Hi Larry, I lent Eugene my 2 HP Honda to move his M17 up the Thames River - against outgoing tide - with four adults on board, and it did a fine job. We didn't try water skiing nor were we competing with a Cigarette. I guess your question boils down to: what are your sailing area conditions? Strong tides? Move the boat against heavy winds? Then the larger engine is probably the preferable choice. However, if you only use it in calm conditions; with moderate tides to buck; and are willing to settle for a slightly slower speed if the conditions deteriorate, then the 2 HP should suffice. Connie

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