January 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: turtle questions
by Randy Watkins 14 Jan '02

14 Jan '02

Hello David, I saw your email and had a couple of thoughts. A- Potters overturning- I owned a P15 before purchasing my current M15 and the P15 was a stable boat. I did have to lock down the c/b before raining sail as that was the primary ballast and lateral resistance for the boat. It's much like any small c/b boat ( a Daysailor, Lido 14 or Catalina 14/15 ). I never flipped mine but I was a cautious sailor. 1. Does anyone know of an M15 or 17 turning turtle? A- I haven't heard or it. 2. Apparently the Potters have some form or center board down locking mechanism. I can understand why this would be important so why do the M's not have that capability? Is it really important? A- The M15 c/b isn't the primary ballast, it weighs only 40 lbs or so and you can sail with it up. It sails much like a Compac 16 and doesn't point too well with out the board down. A- the M15 board doesn't lock down, by design. On another note, I am considering removing the foam blocks from under the bow to expand storage space. I read the postings on this and couldn't conclude if this was a bad idea. Opinions? A- I'd leave the flotation in place, it's safer and designed that way. I put a couple of hanging web storage bags and that helped organize and I also put a hammock to put stuff it. Enjoy your M15 they are great small boats and very stable. I do reef mine over 15 and also purchased a smaller 60% jib for 20+ sailing. Regards, Randy Watkins M15#194 >>> David.Rossi(a)wcom.com 01/14/02 10:00AM >>> I just read the accounts of Potters turning turtle and as I am new to sailing a smaller center boarder a couple of question came to mind. 1. Does anyone know of an M15 or 17 turning turtle? 2. Apparently the Potters have some form or center board down locking mechanism. I can understand why this would be important so why do the M's not have that capability? Is it really important? 3. My experience with a center boarder is on a 30 footer with a very heavy keel. I used the center board at about half on a reach and only dropped it all the way when beating. Running it was up. The Potter accounts sound like they felt that the board should be locked down at all times. Is this correct on the M's? On another note, I am considering removing the foam blocks from under the bow to expand storage space. I read the postings on this and couldn't conclude if this was a bad idea. Opinions? Thanks for your time and experience, Dave Rossi M15-197 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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RE: M_Boats: turtle questions
by Morris, Giles 14 Jan '02

14 Jan '02

>Apparently the Potters have some form or center board down locking >mechanism. I can understand why this would be important so why do the M's >not have that capability? There isn't much weight in the M-boat CB. The ballast is in the fixed keel and the CB is really only there as a hydrofoil. For comparison, the Compac 16, with a similar configuration, only added the CB recently. I've found that the CB makes a big difference to the M-15 when beating. >The Potter accounts sound >like they felt that the board should be locked down at all times I haven't sailed a P-15, but with dinghies of similar hull shape and size I've pulled the board up on a run. On the other hand, I don't mind capsizing a dinghy (much). Giles Morris Arlington VA Vancouver 25 #002 "Dolphin" Montgomery 15 #264 "Umiaq" Sundry kayaks

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Re: M_Boats: Begging for a ride on an M-15
by Steve R. 14 Jan '02

14 Jan '02

Come on up! Steve R. M-15 #119 Hi Steve, my name is Steve Tyree and I hale from Lascassas, TN which is SE of Nashville and a bit bigger than a postage stamp. Currently we are owners of a WWP-15, but I've long admired the Montgomerys and would love to see an M-15 first hand. If you are agreeable to the idea of a virtual stranger driving up to look over your boat, let me know. Otherwise, may the wind be fair wherever you fare!

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Re: M_Boats: Begging for a ride on an M-15
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

Steve R. Montgomery 15 #119 Lexington, KY Hi Steve, my name is Steve Tyree and I hale from Lascassas, TN which is SE of Nashville and a bit bigger than a postage stamp. Currently we are owners of a WWP-15, but I've long admired the Montgomerys and would love to see an M-15 first hand. If you are agreeable to the idea of a virtual stranger driving up to look over your boat, let me know. Otherwise, may the wind be fair wherever you fare! Steve Tyree WWP-15 #2098 "Amy Ann" 615-286-2716

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Re: M_Boats: First test sail - guess I'll be buying a centerboard
by Conbert H Benneck 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

Steve, A clarification on your message. My M15 had the deep sail locker on the port side and the shallow one on the starboard side. Both sail locker areas have a vertical - about 1 foot high - bulkhead at the forward end of the sail locker areas. This serves to keep items in the sail locker from migrating into the cabin if things get boisterous and the boat is doing a lot of pitching. What I did was cut at the center of the flat area of the lip around the sail locker. I made the radius by drilling a number of holes the thickness of my sabersaw blade, and then carefully cut away the walls between holes with a needle file. (I wanted nice rounded corners with minimum slop) The straight cuts were made with a sabersaw using a fine toothed blade. Fiberglass is very abrasive, so you'll need several blades to do the job easily, otherwise you'll find that you are trying to cut and the blade has no teeth anymore! With the shallow sail locker cut out (support it so that all the weight isn't hanging on the last bits of fiberglass and breaking off) you can file / sand the edges of the hole and the locker. The next step was to build supports under the lip of the sail locker that would support the shallow locker when it was put back in place. This proved to be a bit tricky, since the "bottom" sides of the fiberglass are not even, nor of constant thickness. Here, you will have to improvise to provide good gluing surfaces for your tray supports. I made mine out of pieces of teak from my scrap box. They were glued in place using WEST Epoxy. Incidentally, call or write to WEST and get their "How To" book on fiberglassing techniques. This will make an expert out of you in short order! An excellent, well written book with lots of drawings and sketches showing you how it is done, and which of their products to use for different problems. Also shows you how to solve and repair gelcoat crack problems. Can't live without it! ------------------ I finished the shallow sail locker tray by drilling two holes about a hand's breadth apart in the ends. I then threaded some 1/8" line - more or less; it was what I happened to have available in my ditty bag. To make it easy on the hands, I threaded my line through a piece of plastic tubing; making a nice handle on the inside of the box. The knot was on the inside of the sail locker - i.e., not in the locker, but on the rough surface side. ----------------- I have found it to be a very worthwhile modification. Now I have the best of both worlds: the shallow tray for glasses and other small items, while if I grab the handles and lift it out, I can get at all that nice stowage area volume, where I keep my swim ladder; extra cockpit cushions; the bimini top and supports; my paddle / boathook. The only draw-back is that you can't put small items down there because they would disappear under the cockpit sole, since there is no vertical (longitudinal) bulkhead as there is on the port side. The port side is a complete box with the inboard and forward bulkheads. On the starboard side you have only the forward bulkhead, unless you build yourself a removable one to act as a longitudinal bulkhead. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Wanted M23
by Mr l w 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

Hi, Want to buy M23, any condition, any location but preferably west coast. Would like it with an operational trailer. Thanks, Les __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

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M-17 Wanted
by BOGO441＠aol.com 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

Looking to buy clean M-17 in the Mid-Atlantic / NJ area. Pls email me at bogo441(a)aol.com. Thanks.

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Re: M_Boats: GPS errors
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

Gps shows you accuracy around a circle of the location...it doesn't "repeat" in the same place every time like loran does. This normally puts you left, right, above or below the location depending on the satellite locations. Also, I'm not sure if the government has totally turned off selective availibility (S/A). If they have cranked this back up to what it used to be that would make accuracy up to 100 meters in any direction 95% of the time. That would make the error you have. Also, if you have DGPS (differential correction) make sure it is turned on. Down in Florida we have a "zone" where the gps doesn't work at all sometimes. Depending on pinpoint nav with a gps can be very hazardous to your health...our domestic units aren't in the same class as smart bombs. Bill P.

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Re: M_Boats: Lake Michigan Sailing
by Randy Watkins 13 Jan '02

13 Jan '02

hello Steve, I'm not familiar with Lake Michigan but I do recall a story of a gent attempting as crossing on a P14. It's a good story and some lessons for us small boat sailboats. http://potter-yachters.org/stories/index.html take care, Randy Watkins M15#194 & Classic Dingy 10. >>> stevemc35(a)attbi.com 01/11/02 08:55AM >>> While I'm wiling away the weeks waiting for spring, fantasizing about taking my old M15 out for the first time (for me), I'm looking over all my Lake Michigan charts, studying every little harbor and inlet and island that might make an interesting destination. My own experience 'till now has been limited to sailing a 14' open boat within a few miles of Chicago's north shore. Just wondering, anybody out there ever make a crossing of Lake Michigan in an M15? If so, I'd like to hear all about it, how long did it take, etc. Or any other Lake Michigan sailing stories would be welcome-- or for that matter, any Great Lakes M-15 sailing at all. I'd love to hear about it. By this time next year, I'm sure hoping to have one or two of my own to share! Stay warm... -- Steve McClellan M15 #152 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Lake Michigan Sailing
by Steve R. 12 Jan '02

12 Jan '02

--- stevemc35(a)attbi.com wrote: > >Or any other Lake Michigan sailing stories would be >welcome-- > I think this took place Memorial Day weekend, 1997. It might have been 1996. My ex-girlfriend and I went sailing on Lake Michigan on a 40+ foot sloop. Her friends, Ann and Terry, plan to cruise when they retire and that will be the boat they will use. They berth the boat in New Buffalo, Michigan, which is the same latitude as Chicago. We drove to New Buffalo on Friday, sailed to Chicago on Saturday, planned to spend Sunday on the tourist circuit, then sail back on Monday and drive home that evening. My gf and I were looking forward to a romantic get away but Terry must have know something was up, so to speak. His torpedoed that notion with the comment: "If you have sex on a boat everyone knows about it!" The sail on Saturday was pleasant. I stood at the wheel most of the afternoon, until I reverted to tiller mode when a swell got us a little cocked. That was the first time I steered a boat with a wheel and I was OK for several hours, until for some reason I turned the wheel the wrong way. I accidentally tacked, and it was a little too rapid for comfort. Terry came back on deck and I was demoted. As far as navigation is concerned, it is real easy to hit a mark if it is on the same latitude! Just keep that compass needle on 270 or 90 as appropriate. We never bothered to turn on the GPS. We had sunshine on Saturday and a slight breeze. Terry finally decided to start the motor as it looked like we did not have enough wind to make Chicago by nightfall. Terry said the marina we were headed to had reciprocal visitor privileges with his sailing club, which I think translated into free showers and reduced mooring fees. In the marina the space reserved for visitors to check in with the harbor master was being used by power boaters taking an ice cream break. After about the third time we passed the harbor master he called us on the VHF and assigned a mooring number. The poor guy sounded like he was covered up on one of the first warm weekends of the year. My memory is a little fuzzy, but I know we dined aboard that nigh and retired early, perhaps assisted by adult beverages. The day had been exciting for me, and I think that was the first sail of the year for Ann and Terry. When I woke up on Sunday morning we were in a storm. Terry was yelling for us to get up and get underway, so we could beat the storm. It seemed to me the storm had already beaten us. I'm sleepy, hungry, caffeine deprived and probably hung over. Terry said we had to leave now or stay in port several days. Ann and my gf had to be back at work on Tuesday. Any other time, I would have suggested either renting a car or buying the ladies plane tickets, and then Terry and I could wait the storm out. My brain was not sufficiently engaged to conceive of this. I thought of calling my Dad on the cell phone and telling him what we were doing. That way if we did not turn up in New Buffalo, he could at least call the CG. I did not think I could make a call without being overheard by one of the others. That would either panic my gf or upset Ann or Terry. This seemed to be a time when moral and good will were needed in large doses. I also figured the call would only serve to worry my Mom and Dad. So - we set sail across Lake Michigan in a storm with a sum total of four people knowing what we were doing. Of course, all four of those people were on the boat. I put on my rain suit and joined Terry on deck. I can not estimate how fast the wind roared or how high the waves were. It was a storm. I was not as uncomfortable as I imagined I would be. We were heading east and the waves were out of the north. So Terry had to turn 90 degrees to meet a wave and then turn back to hold our course. Ann and my gf stayed below, and were soon sea sick. Terry asked me to go below and light the propane gas cabin heater. This seemed to be a simple enough task for a mechanical engineer. Strike a match, open a valve. The heater did not light. The scented propane reached my nostrils and I instantly became sea sick. Terry forgot to mention the valve at the tank was also turned off. After a few more bouts of sea sickness I had the cabin warmed and freshly cleaned. I staggered forward and crawled into the v-berth, spread-eagle on my tummy. I crossed Lake Michigan in that position, with no further ado. Our return trip took half the time of Saturday's crossing. We reached New Buffalo before the storm, and got the boat secured. My gf was OK but Terry had to take Ann to the emergency room for an injection - her bout of sea sickness was that severe. This was the second such incident for her. As they plan to spend their retirement cruising, this could become a significant problem. The moral of the story is: 1) In 12 hours the lake can change unexpectedly. 2) Do not go below deck in a storm. 3) Do not go below deck in a storm and inhale something from the skunk column of the periodic chart. 4) Let someone know where you are going and when you will be there. 5) Instruct everyone on your boat how to operate even the most insignificant item you have before setting out. Steve R. Montgomery 15 #119 Lexington, KY

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