January 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Positive Floatation
by AirEvacLen＠aol.com 19 Jan '02

19 Jan '02

In a message dated 1/19/02 9:21:26 AM US Mountain Standard Time, chbenneck(a)juno.com writes: > The only solution would be to try to grab the Cigarette driver's > gold chain, or his girlfriend's bikini thong and be jerked to safety. > > Remember: The name of the game is to keep all water outside the boat! > AMEN...... Lenny

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Re: M_Boats: Positive Floatation
by Conbert H Benneck 19 Jan '02

19 Jan '02

Allow me to make a penultimate comment about M15 floatation. You're all worrying about keeping the boat afloat after it is full of water. How much floation is needed....? Go at it from the other end. The name of the game is KEEP THE WATER OUT OF THE BOAT, and the boat will keep floating! One thing that nobody addressed and which is crucial, is that sail locker hatches need some form of fastener so that in the event of a knock-down; etc. the locker lids don't fly open and allow all the water to flow into the boat. I did this with hasps for small locks that I found in WEST's catalog. They are installed so that they can't accidentally open by themselves. You have to exert a bit of force to open the hasp. This means that while I'm sailing, the sail locker lids are firmly closed - with closed cell foam seals under the lids to make them waterproof - and stay that way; until I open them. If the going gets rough, then by all means insert your hatch boards in the companionway, and close the companionway sliding hatch cover. When I made my new hatch boards, I cut them so that I have to lift the companionway cover about 1/8th of an inch in order to slide it open. That gives me a positive closing latch to keep hatch boards in place, and it prevents the companionway sliding hatch from sliding open of it's own accord. With hatchboards installed; and sail locker lids mechanically held shut; the most that should happen - if you have a knock-down - would be a bit of water down below through the clearance gaps in the hatch boards. If you do what I just outlined, there should be no possibility of getting major amounts of water inside the boat unless you are hit broadside by a Cigarette doing 50 knots. Then, even having hatchboards in place won't help. The only solution would be to try to grab the Cigarette driver's gold chain, or his girlfriend's bikini thong and be jerked to safety. Remember: The name of the game is to keep all water outside the boat! Non-locking sail locker lids, on any sailboat, is an invitation to disaster. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: M_Boats: Rendezvous?
by Bob Olson 19 Jan '02

19 Jan '02

Always interested in any NW rendezvous(es). Had a blast sailing out of Boston Harbor last year with the Potter people. Idaho is a bit of a trek for me (Seattle). Wonder if one of the big eastern washington lakes might make a good rendezvous point? Bob Olson M-15 "Piccolo" >Hello fellow sailors, > It is once again vacation planning time and naturally, the first >thought that comes to mind is; >Are there any Montgomery rendezvous happening in the Northwest? There >was some interest expressed last fall in an Inland Northwest get-together >on one of the big Idaho lakes this coming season. I guess I'm just >wanting to start the dialog and see if, where, and when the best time is >so those involved can start planning vacation times. Also, is the San >Juan rendezvous that fell though last fall of interest to anyone for this >year? >Larry Yake >M17 #200 >Tullamore

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Rendezvous?
by Larry Yake 18 Jan '02

18 Jan '02

Hello fellow sailors, It is once again vacation planning time and naturally, the first thought that comes to mind is; Are there any Montgomery rendezvous happening in the Northwest? There was some interest expressed last fall in an Inland Northwest get-together on one of the big Idaho lakes this coming season. I guess I'm just wanting to start the dialog and see if, where, and when the best time is so those involved can start planning vacation times. Also, is the San Juan rendezvous that fell though last fall of interest to anyone for this year? Larry Yake M17 #200 Tullamore

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Re: Twin Forestays
by Steve R 17 Jan '02

17 Jan '02

Thanks for the responses. Sorry Howard. I misrepresented the message I read from Bill Riker in March 2001, which read: "Howard is the one who suggested dual head sails for downwind sailing." I thought the guy who sailed an M-15 to Hawaii had twin foresails, but I can not find the article about that trip. The issue of excessive sag is a valid one. There seems to be two options available: 1) use some sort of tensioning device - which I think racing boats have, or 2) have the second sail as a higher wind backup just in case a storm comes up. For me it would likely be a thunder storm. Just keep floating for a half hour or so and the sun will pop out again. The thing that strikes me about bigger foresails is that I may not have enough water to enjoy one. Are you folks setting the big sail and staying on a course for a long time? Does anyone on a small lake use a genoa/spinnaker/drifter/150+? Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY

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Re: M_Boats: Twin Forestays
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 17 Jan '02

17 Jan '02

Steve, I put some miles on a 24k displacement cutter with twin roller furling headsails. Nothing is better for long downwind runs in big seas. To be effective, the sails need to be large (genny size). You lose the hassle of a main boom banging around and a mainsail blanketing the jib...a problem with big following seas. There normally wasn't a downside to this setup except for the sails banging together when furled. All I did to start upwind work was to furl in one sail and close haul the other. You did have to be carefull when furling up so they didn't get double wrapped (that happend ONCE and it was a major pain to get them undone)...sorta like getting a spinnaker wrapped on the forstay...been there too and it got wrapped so tight I had to cut it off. For non roller furling it would be twin forstays with a sail hanked on each...each sail with it's own halliard, sheets and pole. Twin forstays need to be far enough apart (fore and aft) to keep from banging together and snaps from hitting each other...I really don't think this is something you would do on a 15-17 Montgomery though. In my humble opinion a big genny poled out is the answer to this size boat. Then make sure you have a vang and preventer for the main boom. Storage can be a problem with specialty sails and the genny will do both up and downwind without hanking on other sails. By all means go for a roller furler anyway. Bill P.

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Re: M_Boats: Twin Forestays
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 17 Jan '02

17 Jan '02

In a message dated 1/16/02 4:39:10 PM Central Standard Time, stever(a)mail.saabnet.com writes: > Does anyone have twin forestays on a M-15? (or M-17 for that matter?) I > found a reference in the archives that Howard uses two foresails to run > downwind, but I do not know if that means two forestays or if the two sails > are hanked on to the same stay. Is it possible to have one sail in use and > one hanked on and ready to hoist if the weather changes? You would have to > deal with one set of sheets being on top of the other. Any other issues > that I do not envision? I am trying to get roller furling without the big > bucks or increased set-up/take-down times. > > Most of the references I've found to twin forestays are for the purposes of running downwind for extended periods of time. Many also involve sheet to tiller steering. Some larger boats go so far as to install roller furling on both! The most thorough discussion of these options that I've read is in Richard Henderson's "Singlehanded Sailing", 2nd edition. I got it for Christmas and found it a worthy read. One of the options uses a "Y" yoke at the mast, so that both forestays are evenly tensioned. In Small Craft Advisor's #13 issue, there's a wonderful interview of Shane St. Claire. Shane sailed a Capri 18 from North America to Hawaii. He used a genny for 2000 miles of the trip, sans mainsail. When the wind got light, he'd set an assymetrical spinnaker and run wing and wing. Terrific article, btw :) On my Potter, my working jib (a tiny 23sf) is often set tight enough to slack the forestay. Perhaps you could set your larger jib in the usual way, and have a smaller "mini spinnaker" awaiting use, secured to the deck with its own downhaul. Just a thought. Fair winds, Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 "Amy Ann"

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Re: M_Boats: Twin Forestays
by Thomas Howe 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

I made an asymetrical from a Sailreite Kit. It is a wonderful addition to the sail inventory I use it when I have a long run, and get lots of admiring looks. It's easy to set, tacked to a pennant for fine tuning the shape, and I heartily recommend one. Sailrite has the dimensions, or your local sailwright could make it. Fair winds and big sheaves to you, Thomas Howe. "To reach the port of success, we must sail, sometimes with the wind, sometimes against it, but we must sail, not drift or lie at anchor." Oliver Wendell Holmes > [Original Message] > From: Howard A <haudsley(a)tranquility.net> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: 1/16/02 6:30:41 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Twin Forestays > > Which "Howard" would that be? I hope it isn't me. I've got 3 headsails, but only use them one at a time. I do have a spinaker halyard, but don't have a sail to use it on. Dead downwind I'd be running wing and wing (main out and jib poled out on the opposite side). > > As I understand it, the skinny on twin forestays is that for the most part, they are a bad idea. You can never get enough tension on them from the backstay to keep the one in use from sagging and giving you a bad sail shape on the wind. If you have them, you must leave the one not in use a little slack so that all the load is on the active one. You might be able to use them both downwind. For our boats, a bettter solution might be an asymetrical spinaker or large drifter set flying and/or poled out on a spinaker halyard. But that will involve going forward to > take it down eventually. > > Bill Riker uses an asymetrical spinaker on his M15 and it works really well, as far as I can tell. It went up when it needed to, and came down when it needed to, and it didn't look like it was a problem. I don't have one, but I understand that being made of light nylon, you can stuff them in abag instead of having to fold them. If so, it would make life easier. > > Howard > M17, #278 > > Steve R wrote: > > > Does anyone have twin forestays on a M-15? (or M-17 for that matter?) I found a reference in the archives that Howard uses two foresails to run downwind, but I do not know if that means two forestays or if the two sails are hanked on to the same stay. Is it possible to have one sail in use and one hanked on and ready to hoist if the weather changes? You would have to deal with one set of sheets being on top of the other. Any other issues that I do not envision? I am trying to get roller furling without the big bucks or increased set-up/take-down times. > > > > Steve R. > > M-15 #119 > > Lexington, KY > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats --- Thomas Howe --- Service Integrity Results --- Reece and Nichols, ACRES Realtors --- Your Link to Real Estate in Lawrence, Kansas --- 785-550-1169 --- TEHowe(a)ReeceandNichols.com --- http://www.home.earthlink.net/~thomashowe/

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Twin Forestays
by Steve R 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

Does anyone have twin forestays on a M-15? (or M-17 for that matter?) I found a reference in the archives that Howard uses two foresails to run downwind, but I do not know if that means two forestays or if the two sails are hanked on to the same stay. Is it possible to have one sail in use and one hanked on and ready to hoist if the weather changes? You would have to deal with one set of sheets being on top of the other. Any other issues that I do not envision? I am trying to get roller furling without the big bucks or increased set-up/take-down times. Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY

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M-Boats: Test 2 Ignore
by stephen ricker 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

Sorry

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