January 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

RE: M_Boats: Forespar tiller extension
by Shawn Boles 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

Tiller-Tamer, which is also available from WM, does the same thing. The advantages, to me, are: can run control lines forward and adjust rudder from foredeck, does not block cockpit, does not require 'lockbox'. cheers- Shawn Boles Grey Mist (M17 #276 1978) -----Original Message----- From: Conbert H Benneck [mailto:chbenneck@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:01 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Forespar tiller extension Steve, The Forespar tiller extension, is a length adjustable aluminum tube with a round rubber ball (for your hand) on one end and a fitting that you insert in a socket on your tiller on the other end. Forespar also has a "Lock Box" which is installed in the backrest of the cockpit. This allows you to put the round ball into a holder, and capture it firmly. You now have a link between tiller and cockpit side that is adjustable in length: i.e., you can adjust it so that it holds your desired course while you do something else. Go to WEST MARINE catalog, - mine is the '99 edition - and on page 537 you will find a picture and detailed description of both items. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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M15 INTERIOR PLAN
by Steve Drakesmith 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

What is under the cockpit of a M15 I realize there are some lockers but do they just open down into the cabin or are they enclosed ?? Are they water tight ?? Could they be made into additional berths -- similar to the berths in a Com-Pac except smaller -- like for kids ?? I like the boat but have never seen one up close Thanks Steve

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Re: M_Boats: M15 INTERIOR PLAN
by Conbert H Benneck 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

Steve, On my M15, hull #400, I have a port sail locker that goes to the bottom of the hull, and a starboard locker that had the shallow tray, which I modified to access the whole available storage area. The port sail locker has a longitudinal bulkhead to keep things from disappearing under the cockpit sole; and the forward end has about a 10 inch high bulkhead separating the locker from the cabin. i.e., with a bit of contortion you can reach into the sail locker from the port cabin berth. The starboard locker also has a similar 10 inch high bulkhead at it's forward end. Both sail lockers open into the main cabin, and are not watertight units. Having had a ComPac 16 before I found the M15, the answer to your question about quarter berths under the cockpit seats is NO. It can't be done. The reason is that the aft end of the interior berths end just before the aft end of the cabin bulkhead. There is no space for even a very small child to sild in there; and if you could get them in there, they would be out in a second because it would be like a straight jacket. On the ComPac 16, the berths were designed to go under the cockpit seats - a lousy solution - since you had no sail lockers, and everything had to be stowed on the bunks: and according to Murphy's Law, what you desperately needed, Right Now, was the furthest aft on the berth. Not having sail lockers, and good stowage possibilities for all the equipment you need on a boat was the prime reason why I sold the ComPac and bought the Montgomery. After living with the ComPac for three years and hating the lack of easily accessible storage space, I heard about the Montgomery 15, got details from the kind people on the M-website, and bought one sight-unseen. I've been blissfully happy with this elegant, well thought-out, and proper little ship ever since. You will be too. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: M_Boats: Forespar tiller extension
by Conbert H Benneck 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

Steve, The Forespar tiller extension, is a length adjustable aluminum tube with a round rubber ball (for your hand) on one end and a fitting that you insert in a socket on your tiller on the other end. Forespar also has a "Lock Box" which is installed in the backrest of the cockpit. This allows you to put the round ball into a holder, and capture it firmly. You now have a link between tiller and cockpit side that is adjustable in length: i.e., you can adjust it so that it holds your desired course while you do something else. Go to WEST MARINE catalog, - mine is the '99 edition - and on page 537 you will find a picture and detailed description of both items. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Forespar tiller extension
by stevemc35＠attbi.com 16 Jan '02

16 Jan '02

OK, I'm game. Just what IS a "Forespar tiller extension"? (Sorry if I missed something) -- Steve McClellan M15 #152 > Joe, > > The Forespar tiller extension, when the knob is locked in the socket, > makes a fine autopilot. > A bit of careful tweaking of the length of the tiller holder and the M15 > holds a very nice course - provided you don't get up, go forward; go > below to get a cup of coffee; or otherwise disturb the carefully achieved > balance needed to hold course. > > However, that is a minor drawback. With the Admirable snoozing; I have > put it on "autopilot" and it held course for an hour at a time, while I > sat with my binoculars observing mermaids, looking for the Loch Ness > monster; or checking out unusual looking vessels. The M15 happily > gurgles along at 4.5 knots. For minor course correction, just harden up > the jib sheet, or loosen it a bit, Makes fine-tuning the desired course > easy. > > I use mine all the time, when I turn into the wind to get the sails down. > I fire up the faithful Honda, get it on idle speed, point the M15 into > the wind and lock the Forespar tiller holder in place, to hold that > course. > > Then I can go forward, drop my jib and take it off the fore stay; drop > the main and get gaskets on it; and finally, go back to the cockpit; undo > the Forespar, and stow it; and head for the dock. > > Can't live without it! > > Connie > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: M15 Cockpit Lockers
by Conbert H Benneck 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

Joe, Happy New Year to you and the Admirable. We do seem to have a lot of variations in M15s! Two shallow lockers; One shallow / one deep locker front bulkheads on both sides front bulkhead only on the port side What else can be added to the list? ....and why the differences? Any comments Jerry? --------------------- I have no worries about my sail lockers opening in a seaway. They both have hasps on them, which are tight enough so that they stay closed until you really want to open it. I also gasketed the underside of the sail locker lid with adhesive backed closed cell foam strips, which make my lids water tight, when the lid is down and locked in position. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: M_Boats: turtle questions
by Conbert H Benneck 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

Dave, I concur with Scott's comments. At one time I too was a "big" boat sailor, but now that I've found, bought, and sailed an M15, I'm totally happy. It's a great little ship. Scott has cruised for three weeks, or more, with two persons on board, and has excellent solutions for storage: See Archives for his cruise story and his "How To...." The only comment I can add would be to with regards the styrofoam floatation in the bow compartment: The styrofoam pieces - for their volume - take up a lot of space in a very inefficient manner. If you want to use the bow compartment for storage, then get rid of the styrofoam logs, and replace them with empty 2 liter plastic bottles, with their caps on tight. They will fit into the compartment shape better: give you the same, or more flotation; -and provide you with additional usable storage space. You will just have to work out a system of keeping them where they belong! .....and you won't have crumbling bits of styrofoam to clean up. The M15 can use weight forward. With two adults in the cockpit, and an outboard on the stern, the stern will be low in the water and cause excessive drag. Anything you can put in the bow compartment will tend to off-set this problem: water containers; a battery; canned goods; etc. The name of the game is to keep the bottom of the transom from dragging in the water, if you want to achieve maximum sailing speed. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: M_Boats: Tiller Extension Socket
by Conbert H Benneck 15 Jan '02

15 Jan '02

Joe, My socket is installed on the starboard side, for the very reason you mention - namely easy access to the outboard. Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: M_Boats: M15 Cockpit Lockers
by Conbert H Benneck 14 Jan '02

14 Jan '02

Joe, The Forespar tiller extension, when the knob is locked in the socket, makes a fine autopilot. A bit of careful tweaking of the length of the tiller holder and the M15 holds a very nice course - provided you don't get up, go forward; go below to get a cup of coffee; or otherwise disturb the carefully achieved balance needed to hold course. However, that is a minor drawback. With the Admirable snoozing; I have put it on "autopilot" and it held course for an hour at a time, while I sat with my binoculars observing mermaids, looking for the Loch Ness monster; or checking out unusual looking vessels. The M15 happily gurgles along at 4.5 knots. For minor course correction, just harden up the jib sheet, or loosen it a bit, Makes fine-tuning the desired course easy. I use mine all the time, when I turn into the wind to get the sails down. I fire up the faithful Honda, get it on idle speed, point the M15 into the wind and lock the Forespar tiller holder in place, to hold that course. Then I can go forward, drop my jib and take it off the fore stay; drop the main and get gaskets on it; and finally, go back to the cockpit; undo the Forespar, and stow it; and head for the dock. Can't live without it! Connie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: M_Boats: turtle questions
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 14 Jan '02

14 Jan '02

DAVID: MY COMMENTS IN ALL CAPS BELOW. In a message dated 1/14/02 8:03:55 AM, David.Rossi(a)wcom.com writes: >I just read the accounts of Potters turning turtle and as I am new to >sailing a smaller center boarder a couple of question came to mind. > >1. Does anyone know of an M15 or 17 turning turtle? > I HAVE NOT PERSONALLY HEARD OF SUCH AN OCCURRENCE, BUT DON'T DOUBT THAT IT COULD HAPPEN. I DO HAVE A FRIEND WHO EXPERIENCED A KNOCKDOWN IN HIS M15 (SUDDEN GUST WHILE GROSSLY OVERCANVASED). IN SPITE OF SHIPPING CONSIDERABLE WATER INTO THE COCKPIT, THE BOAT WAS EXTREMELY QUICK TO RECOVER (PROBABLY A COMBINED RESPONSE OF BALLAST AND HIGH BUOYANCY RESULTING FROM THE COMPARATIVELY HIGH AND FULL COCKPIT COMBINGS). > >2. Apparently the Potters have some form or center board down locking >mechanism. I can understand why this would be important so why do the >M's not have that capability? Is it really important? > I BELIEVE THERE ARE SOME PRONOUNCED DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE P15 AND M15 RELATIVE TO THIS QUESTION. THE M15's 250# OF BALLAST IS PRIMARILY CONTAINED WITHIN THE LONG SHOAL DRAFT KEEL (I BELIEVE THE FIBERGLASS CENTERBOARD ONLY WEIGHS IN AT SOMETHING LIKE 40#). I THINK IT IS FAIR TO SAY THAT THE BULK OF THE RIGHTING MOMENT IS DERIVED FROM THE BALLAST IN THIS KEEL, AND NOT THE CENTERBOARD. FOR THIS REASON, I SUSPECT JERRY DID NOT SEE ANY NECESSITY IN ANY TYPE OF LOCK FOR THE CENTERBOARD (WHICH I FIND COMFORTING, AS I LIKE THE FACT THAT THE BOARD WILL PIVOT OUT OF HARM'S WAY). IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THE P15 ON THE OTHER HAND, RELIES ON A COMBINATION OF THE HARD-CHINED HULL FORM FACTOR, THE LATERAL RESISTANCE OF THE CENTERBOARD, AND 'LIVE BALLAST' (WEIGHT OF CREW). TO THIS EXTENT, I THINK IT FAIR TO CHARACTERIZE THE P15 AS MORE AKIN TO LIVE-BALLASTED DINGHY, AND THE M15 AS MORE OF A REAL KEEL BOAT (ALBEIT A LIVELY ONE). > >3. My experience with a center boarder is on a 30 footer with a very heavy >keel. I used the center board at about half on a reach and only dropped >it all the way when beating. Running it was up. The Potter accounts sound >like they felt that the board should be locked down at all times. Is this >correct on the M's? > I TOO WAS A BIG BOAT SAILOR PRIOR TO PURCHASING AN M15 (INDEED, MY CHOICE OF THE M15 OVER OTHER SMALL BOATS WAS IN PART BECAUSE IT FELT MORE LIKE A SMALL KEEL BOAT THAN A LARGE DINGHY). I BELIEVE THE M15 IS MORE AKIN TO THE 30 FOOTER THAN IT IS THE P15 IN THIS RESPECT. AGAIN, WITH 1/3 OF IT'S DISPLACEMENT AS BALLAST IN THE KEEL AND NOT THE CENTERBOARD, I BELIEVE THE M15 CAN BE SAFELY SAILED OFF THE WIND WITH THE BOARD UP (I DO THIS ALL THE TIME). I HAVE, ON OCCASION, FORGOTTEN TO LOWER THE BOARD AGAIN WHEN RETURNING TO A CLOSE REACH/BEAT, AND CAN SAY IN ALL HONESTY THAT THE ONLY DIFFERENCE I NOTICED WAS EXCESSIVE LEEWAY. I DON'T THINK THIS WOULD BE TRUE OF THE P15. > >On another note, I am considering removing the foam blocks from under the >bow to expand storage space. I read the postings on this and couldn't >conclude if this was a bad idea. Opinions? > I AM GOING TO BE THE DISSENTING VOICE HERE AND SAY THAT I WOULD *NOT* REMOVE THE FOAM. IT IS A GAMBLE, AND PERHAPS COULD BE WEIGHED IN THE CONTEXT OF HOW AND WHERE YOU USE YOUR BOAT, BUT I FEEL THAT IF I CAN CRUISE FOR THREE WEEKS AND NOT BE WANTING FOR STORAGE SPACE, THERE IS NO REASON TO TRADE AWAY THE POTENTIAL MARGIN OF SAFETY THIS FOAM MIGHT PROVIDE. WHILE I TEND TO SAIL IN FAIRLY TO VERY ROUGH CONDITIONS (SAN FRANCISCO BAY, PUGET SOUND, BRITISH COLUMBIA, ETC.), I HAVE BEEN SURPRISED THAT SOME OF THE MOST HARROWING CONDITIONS I HAVE ENCOUNTERED HAVE BEEN SUDDEN AND UNEXPECTED SQUALLS OR WILIWAWS ON SMALL LAKES. TO ME, THE POSITIVE FLOTATION OF THE M15 WAS A BIG SELLING POINT. I DON'T THINK I WOULD HAVE BEEN AS COMFORTABLE UNDERTAKING SOME OF THE TRIPS I HAVE HAD THE FLOTATION BEEN REMOVED. > >Thanks for your time and experience, > >Dave Rossi > >M15-197 > THAT'S MY $0.02 WORTH. ALSO, PLEASE DON'T MISCONSTRUE MY COMMENTS AS POTTER BASHING. I AM ONLY MAKING THE COMPARISON FOR PURPOSES OF IDENTIFYING THE DESIGN DIFFERENCES AND THEIR DIFFERING INTENDED PURPOSE. SCOTT GROMETER, M15 #478 "BEBE"

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