Peter,
Be sure to leave clearance at the vang mast bail to clear the step and or hatch - check three times - attach once!
go
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>
To: peterkick <peterkick(a)aol.com>; montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2019 3:45 pm
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail opinions
Peter,
Place your vang attachment as low as you reasonably can on the mast and set the boom bail or attachment so it is at as close to a 45 degree angle from the boom to the mast - if you install a boomkicker - place it inside the vang triangle.
Yes, your roach will probably hit the backstay - no biggie, if you are concerned you can use vinyl coated wire at the upper section of the backstay. (my boat has a full top batten and the mast now has a backstay flicker to aid in tacking)
E-P sails are an excellent choice for the sails.
Cant tell you if your boat is NorSea or not - Jerry's boats typically had the bow chainplate very close to the forward end of the deck - Norsea are typically back about 5"
Enjoy - have fun,GO
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Kick via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>
To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2019 4:48 am
Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail opinions
Hi everybody,
Noob here. From Maine. Currently in my new M17 (bird girl, formerly sea bear- either of those sound familiar?) Bird Girl is a 2001, niiice boat. I’m sailing in the Keys. Just in from the Marquesas— rain coming.
Hope I don’t drive you crazy— lots of questions
Q: is this a nor’sea boat?
Q: mainsail has a bit more roach than the triangle can handle, so the sail sweeps against the backstay. Normal? (Elliott Pattison sails).
Q: badly need a vang since the boom has to be totally flAt in order for it not to hit the backstay on a tack or a jibe...
Can anyone suggest Correct spot for placement of a bail on the boom?
Any an all comments most eagerly anticipated —
Thanks
Pete
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 24, 2019, at 1:40 AM, Sam <shunter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Gary and John,
>
> My M15 came rigged with slab reefing. I think it works quite well, and as
> far as I can tell, is comparable to the video John sent for holding the
> sail in the proper orientation to the boom when reefed. I just got a new
> main sail, set up with a bolt rope (same as the old one was). It sounds
> like I'm better off not using it loose footed, so I guess the question
> about how to appropriately attach the clew is sort of moot.
>
> Happy sailing (or waiting for the snow to melt as the case may be),
>
> Sam
>
> M15 #272
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:17 PM Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats <
> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
>
>> Sam,The clew should be attached to the boom by the outhaul and a strap or
>> piece of line around the boom or a sail slug at the clew itself.The sails
>> are what powers your boat-their efficiency is dependent upon their shape
>> and your proper setting and trim. If you value your sails ability to power
>> the boat at it’s highest level - take them off the boom and roll them/store
>> rolled in ‘sausage style bag’ indoors for maximum shape. If that is a PIA,
>> store them however is easy,fast,convenient ,and expect your sails to have a
>> shorter effective life-sails can ‘look great’ -clean with no stains or
>> tears,all seams intact, and be WORN OUT by virtue of becoming misshapen.
>> Support your local sailmaker (really) I believe they will tell you similar
>> recommendations.Ultimately it is what works for you. Well cared for sails
>> increase resale value.Yes-it is bad form to store a sail rolled onto a spar
>> and carried that way in transit (chafe) but plenty of people do it.Many
>> folk subscribe to - ‘it has three corners, it works as a sail’ others buy
>> new sails every season, extremes both!Just my opinion - I have two+ suits-
>> one for racing the others for everything else.My race sails help the boat
>> sail fast and well.It is also rewarding to have a ‘well behaved’ and good
>> performing boat due to excellent sails in very good condition, my opinion
>> and worth at least 2 cents!Have fUn, go sailing!
>>
>> Gary Oberbeck gilasailr(a)aol.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sam <shunter(a)gmail.com>
>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <
>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>
>> Sent: Mon, Jan 21, 2019 05:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail opinions
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Catching up on this loose-footed sail discussion: if you have a sail with a
>> boltrope on the foot, is there any reason why you couldn't rig it loose
>> footed? Is there some important component of the sail that will be missing
>> if it was manufactured with a bolt rope? On an M15, should the clew be
>> attached more securely to the boom (e.g. strap or something), or will the
>> outhaul be enough when rigging loose footed?
>>
>> Finally, someone mentioned bending on the sails each time the boat is set
>> up. I've left my main on the boom since I bought the boat (the sail is
>> ancient maybe the original, so I'm not much concerned with damaging it, and
>> it makes for faster set up times). Is this considered "bad form" for sail
>> longevity? Is there any reason to remove the sail after each time out,
>> especially for a new sail?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Sam
>> M15 #272
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 3:31 PM Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats(a)hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We do all our Sails loose footed main for the 15, 16 and 17. Including
>> our
>>> NorSea 27.
>>>
>>> Much better sail shape.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>> On Jan 12, 2019, at 2:36 PM, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2(a)gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Much contriversy if you do a goggle search.
>>>>
>>>> I went to loose footed on my Pearson 23 and again on my M15. have been
>>>> satisfied for all of the reasons stated above.
>>>> George
>>>> "We Can Not Control the Wind
>>>> But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 3:44 PM Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats <
>>>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mark,
>>>>> Try it - you'll never go back to a boltrope at the foot.
>>>>> Advantage - better sail shape on lower section of sail.
>>> -
>>>>> tying in reef lines at cringles is easier/better accomplished and less
>>>>> potential for damaging sail (make sure the line is around the sail
>> ONLY
>>> -
>>>>> not the boom) with loose foot - Less time spent
>>> bending on
>>>>> the sail. - Faster dousing the mainsail - release
>> clew
>>> and
>>>>> drop halyard - no need to remove foot from track or
>>> sailslot.Disadvantage-
>>>>> Can't think of one.
>>>>> GO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: sal glesser via montgomery_boats <
>>>>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>
>>>>> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sat, Jan 12, 2019 1:16 pm
>>>>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Sail opinions
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>> We've converted all of the boats to loose footed. Even our old Moore
>> 24
>>>>> performs better with a loose footed main.
>>>>> sal
>>>>> Sage Marine
>>>>> In a message dated 1/12/2019 12:59:21 PM Mountain Standard Time,
>>>>> mdvorscak56(a)gmail.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Loose footed main or bolt rope? Need to decide before I order sails.
>>>>> I'venever had a loose footed main but I know lots of people like them.
>>>>> Anybodywish to contribute to my education by listing the advantages
>>>>> anddisadvantages of each?Mark DvorscakM23 Faith
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 22:06 <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
>>>>>> I'd use no-stretch, and make the jib halyard 5/16; the size is
>> needed
>>>>> to> make it hold on the winch and in the cleat.>> -----Original
>>>>> Message-----> From: Mark Dvorscak> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 8:20
>>> PM>
>>>>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23
>>>>> halyards>> Thanks for the info. Mine are all line and appear to be
>> about
>>>>> 12mm. I think> I should be able to go down to 8 mm without any
>>>>> problems...>> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 16:38 <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org
>>>>> wrote:>> > Originally I used spliced halyards; probably 1/4 line on
>> the
>>>>> main, and> > 5/16> > on the jib. 1/8 7X19 wire on all.> >> >
>>> -----Original
>>>>> Message-----> > From: Mark Dvorscak> > Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2019
>>> 7:27
>>>>> PM> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats> > Subject: M_Boats: M23
>>>>> halyards> >> > Anybody know what the original halyard line size was on
>>> the
>>>>> M23? Mine> feel> > like they are a little large for the sheave and I'm
>>>>> thinking of ordering> > some new ones.> > Mark Dvorscak> > M23 Faith>
>>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 08:31 Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com
>>> wrote:>
>>>>>>>>> Gary,> > >> > > The further from home you roam, the more equipment
>>>>> you need on board to> > > take care of the "unexpected" situations you
>>> will
>>>>> encounter.> > >> > > From my big boat experience: on my M15 I carried
>>>>> three anchors; a> small> > > Bruce; a small aluminum Danforth; and a
>>> small
>>>>> Fortress that I found at> a> > > Tag Sale. These covered sand, mud,
>>> rocky
>>>>> bottoms, with the Fortress> > > being a storm anchor with lots of
>> chain
>>> and
>>>>> a very long rode.> > >> > > Then you need a fender board. This is
>> just
>>> a
>>>>> 2" X 3" about 36" long,> > > longer is better, with a lanyard at each
>>> end.>
>>>>>>>>>> If you try to tie up to a dock with pilings, and with a tide
>>>>> range, the> > > problem is that the boat will move so how do you keep
>>> the
>>>>> horizontal> > > fender against the piling? The answer is a fender
>>> board.
>>>>> You drop> two> > > fenders; adjust their height; and then outboard of
>>> the
>>>>> fenders, you> hang> > > the fender board. The fender board can rub
>>> against
>>>>> barnacles; it's> > > replaceable;, but it protects your hull from
>>> damage.>
>>>>>>>>>> Now you have a 36" long surface that goes up against the piling;
>>>>> the> > > boat can move (waves / power boat wakes / tide) and the
>> M15/M17
>>>>> is> > > safely moored.> > >> > > OFF CENTER HARBOR website has a video
>>>>> showing you a neat way to rig> your> > > anchors, one in deep water
>> the
>>>>> other at the beach, so that you can get> > > ashore, but then pull a
>>> line
>>>>> that moves the boat out to deeper water> for> > > safety overnight.
>> The
>>>>> retrieve line is at the beach, or on board, so> in> > > the morning
>> you
>>>>> pull on the line and the boat comes ashore so that you> > > can board,
>>> or
>>>>> go ashore again.> > >> > > Happy sailing,> > >> > > Connie> > >> > >
>> On
>>>>> 11/29/2018 11:03 AM, Chuck via montgomery_boats wrote:> > > > When us
>>> the
>>>>> LPM?> > > >> > > >> > > > -----Original Message-----> > > > From: Gary
>>>>> Oberbeck via montgomery_boats<> > >
>>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>>
>>>>>>>> To: montgomery_boats<montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> > > >
>>>>> Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 8:30 am> > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake
>>> Pleasant
>>>>> AZ Winter Messabout ( replacing> > > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> >
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll take it's picture the next time I go to the Lake!> > > >> > >
>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> > > > From: doug<doug9326(a)gmail.com>>
>>>
>>>>>>> To: Gary Oberbeck<gilasailr(a)aol.com>; For and about Montgomery> > >
>>>>> Sailboats<montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> > > > Sent: Tue,
>> Nov
>>>>> 27, 2018 1:11 pm> > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter
>>>>> Messabout ( replacing> > > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > > >> > > >
>>>>> Thats funny. How about a sand anchor, dirt anchor. How far is that>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> closest tree???> > > >> > > >> On Nov 27, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Gary
>>> Oberbeck
>>>>> via montgomery_boats<> > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>
>>>>> wrote:> > > >>> > > >> Which tree??> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>
>>> -----Original
>>>>> Message-----> > > >> From: jerry<jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org>> > > >>
>> To:
>>>>> PHILIP MCCOWIN<pmcc_imagen(a)mac.com>; For and about Montgomery> > >
>>>>> Sailboats<montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> > > >> Sent: Tue,
>> Nov
>>>>> 27, 2018 12:45 pm> > > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ
>> Winter
>>>>> Messabout ( replacing> > > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > > >>> > >
>>>>
>>>>> And we're going to have a fishing contest, and if successful, eat> > >
>>>>>
>>>>> some> > > fish.> > > >> Dynamite is not allowed unless you bring a
>>> chainsaw
>>>>> to get the fish> > out> > > of> > > >> the trees.> > > >>> > > >> Be
>>> good
>>>>> to see you there, Phil.> > > >>> > > >> -----Original Message-----> >
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: PHILIP MCCOWIN via montgomery_boats> > > >> Sent: Friday,
>> November
>>>>> 16, 2018 3:59 PM> > > >> To: Gary Oberbeck ; For and about Montgomery
>>>>> Sailboats> > > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter
>>> Messabout (
>>>>> replacing> > > >> WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > > >>> > > >> Hi
>>> Gary,> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not involved with the Leukemia Cup Debacle? So, sailing for
>>>>> fun> > > >> instead?> > > >> Sounds Good, maybe the Long Steps will be
>>>>> ready!> > > >>> > > >> Phil> > > >>> On Nov 16, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Gary
>>>>> Oberbeck via montgomery_boats> > > >>> <
>>>>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote:> > > >>>> > > >>> Lake
>>>>> Pleasant, AZ Winter Messabout> > >> >> >> >> On Jan 11, 2019 16:38, <
>>>>> jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> wrote:>> Originally I used spliced
>> halyards;
>>>>> probably 1/4 line on the main, and 5/16> on the jib. 1/8 7X19 wire on
>>>>> all.>> -----Original Message-----> From: Mark Dvorscak> Sent: Tuesday,
>>>>> January 08, 2019 7:27 PM> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats>
>>> Subject:
>>>>> M_Boats: M23 halyards>> Anybody know what the original halyard line
>> size
>>>>> was on the M23? Mine feel> like they are a little large for the sheave
>>> and
>>>>> I'm thinking of ordering> some new ones.> Mark Dvorscak> M23 Faith>>
>> On
>>>>> Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 08:31 Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com
>> wrote:>>
>>>>
>>>>> Gary,> >> > The further from home you roam, the more equipment you
>> need
>>> on
>>>>> board to> > take care of the "unexpected" situations you will
>>> encounter.>
>>>>>>>> From my big boat experience: on my M15 I carried three anchors; a
>>>>> small> > Bruce; a small aluminum Danforth; and a small Fortress that I
>>>>> found at a> > Tag Sale. These covered sand, mud, rocky bottoms, with
>>> the
>>>>> Fortress> > being a storm anchor with lots of chain and a very long
>>> rode.>
>>>>>>>> Then you need a fender board. This is just a 2" X 3" about 36"
>>> long,>
>>>>>> longer is better, with a lanyard at each end.> >> > If you try to tie
>>> up
>>>>> to a dock with pilings, and with a tide range, the> > problem is that
>>> the
>>>>> boat will move so how do you keep the horizontal> > fender against the
>>>>> piling? The answer is a fender board. You drop two> > fenders;
>> adjust
>>>>> their height; and then outboard of the fenders, you hang> > the fender
>>>>> board. The fender board can rub against barnacles; it's> >
>>> replaceable;,
>>>>> but it protects your hull from damage.> >> > Now you have a 36" long
>>>>> surface that goes up against the piling; the> > boat can move (waves /
>>>>> power boat wakes / tide) and the M15/M17 is> > safely moored.> >> >
>> OFF
>>>>> CENTER HARBOR website has a video showing you a neat way to rig your>
>>>
>>>>> anchors, one in deep water the other at the beach, so that you can
>> get>
>>>>
>>>>> ashore, but then pull a line that moves the boat out to deeper water
>>> for> >
>>>>> safety overnight. The retrieve line is at the beach, or on board, so
>>> in> >
>>>>> the morning you pull on the line and the boat comes ashore so that
>> you>
>>>>
>>>>> can board, or go ashore again.> >> > Happy sailing,> >> > Connie> >> >
>>> On
>>>>> 11/29/2018 11:03 AM, Chuck via montgomery_boats wrote:> > > When us
>> the
>>>>> LPM?> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message-----> > > From: Gary
>> Oberbeck
>>> via
>>>>> montgomery_boats<> > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> > > To:
>>>>> montgomery_boats<montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> > > Sent:
>> Thu,
>>>>> Nov 29, 2018 8:30 am> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ
>> Winter
>>>>> Messabout ( replacing> > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > >> > > I'll
>>> take
>>>>> it's picture the next time I go to the Lake!> > >> > >> > >
>>> -----Original
>>>>> Message-----> > > From: doug<doug9326(a)gmail.com>> > > To: Gary
>>> Oberbeck<
>>>>> gilasailr(a)aol.com>; For and about Montgomery> > Sailboats<
>>>>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> > > Sent: Tue, Nov 27, 2018
>>> 1:11
>>>>> pm> > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter Messabout (
>>>>> replacing> > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > >> > > Thats funny. How
>>>>> about a sand anchor, dirt anchor. How far is that> > closest tree???>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2018, at 11:51 AM, Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats<>
>>>
>>>>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote:> > >>> > >> Which
>>> tree??>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> > >> From: jerry<
>>>>> jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org>> > >> To: PHILIP MCCOWIN<
>> pmcc_imagen(a)mac.com
>>>> ;
>>>>> For and about Montgomery> > Sailboats<
>>>>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> > >> Sent: Tue, Nov 27, 2018
>>>>> 12:45 pm> > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake Pleasant AZ Winter
>> Messabout (
>>>>> replacing> > WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> > >>> > >> And we're going
>>> to
>>>>> have a fishing contest, and if successful, eat some> > fish.> > >>
>>> Dynamite
>>>>> is not allowed unless you bring a chainsaw to get the fish> out> > of>
>>>>>>
>>>>> the trees.> > >>> > >> Be good to see you there, Phil.> > >>> > >>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----> > >> From: PHILIP MCCOWIN via
>>> montgomery_boats>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 3:59 PM> > >> To: Gary Oberbeck ;
>> For
>>>>> and about Montgomery Sailboats> > >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lake
>>> Pleasant AZ
>>>>> Winter Messabout ( replacing> > >> WrinkleBoat Ran Tan for 2019)> >
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Gary,> > >>> > >> Not involved with the Leukemia Cup Debacle? So,
>>>>> sailing for fun> > >> instead?> > >> Sounds Good, maybe the Long Steps
>>> will
>>>>> be ready!> > >>> > >> Phil> > >>> On Nov 16, 2018, at 4:46 PM, Gary
>>>>> Oberbeck via montgomery_boats> > >>> <
>>>>> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote:> > >>>> > >>> Lake
>>>>> Pleasant, AZ Winter Messabout> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
