- montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Launching and mooring in Seattle area
by Doug 07 Dec '18

07 Dec '18

There are several launch ramps around and near Lake Union. You could call Signature Yachts on lake Union. They could tell you more. On Dec 7, 2018 at 10:26 AM, <Steve Trapp <stevetrapp(a)q.com>> wrote: Pete, If I remember correctly, there is a boat launch on the E. side of Lake Union and the rest of the lake is commercial. Another option would be to launch at a public site on Lake Washington, but that would probably involve motoring some of the distance to Lake Union. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats Sent: Friday, December 7, 2018 6:14 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: Launching and mooring in Seattle area Hi: I’m planning a trailer and sail in the Seattle area next month. I’ll be towing my M15 from Boise to Seattle and want to sail Lake Union and Lake Washington. Where are the best launch ramps? Also might want to camp in my camper van and boat trailer (plan to pull boat out each day) in marina parking lots. Also, best place to launch at Bellingham for day trips. Any ideas. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.

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Spreader Covers
by Jon Barber 07 Dec '18

07 Dec '18

I use old spreader tubes with PVC caps both ends. They don't cover the lower toggle. I had a religious moment once as the jib sheet snagged and removed a ring ding there. Realized I needed to reverse the pins so the ring ding is aft. Also taped all offending ring ding. All is now well . That was close. I'll sail Tahoe! Put me in the queue! Great boat, thanks Jerry ( still want you to sign my boat). Jon Barber Monty 17 Ol'44 On Thu, Dec 6, 2018, 11:01 AM <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: cold weather and sails (Gary Oberbeck) > 2. Re: cold weather and sails (Peter Zimowsky) > 3. Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader boots/rollers > (John Schinnerer) > 4. Re: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers (Dave Scobie) > 5. Re: New Owner - M17 Poppy (John Schinnerer) > 6. Re: New Owner - M17 Poppy (jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org) > 7. Re: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers (jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org) > 8. Re: Tender (John Schinnerer) > 9. Re: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers (John Schinnerer) > 10. Re: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers (Keith R. Martin) > 11. Re: New Owner - M17 Poppy (Les Schuldt) > 12. Re: New Owner - M17 Poppy (Steve Trapp) > 13. Re: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers (John Schinnerer) > 14. Re: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers (jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 20:50:11 +0000 (UTC) > From: Gary Oberbeck <gilasailr(a)aol.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails > Message-ID: <1875022638.2494821.1544043011635(a)mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Ullman Sails has a sail customer wandering around the ends of the earth > sailing in very cold conditions - Check their website - interesting story. > GO > > -----Original Message----- > From: casioqv <casioqv(a)usermail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Wed, Dec 5, 2018 11:15 am > Subject: Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails > > According to this, PET (the plastic sails are made of) becomes brittle > around -40C/-40F: > > > https://omnexus.specialchem.com/polymer-properties/properties/ductile-britt… > > I'd imagine it would be possible to damage a dacron sail sailing at -40F, > but I can't imagine how you'd find such conditions with liquid water to > sail on. > > Sincerely, > Tyler > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: "Peter Zimowsky" <rapidz(a)mac.com>, "For and about Montgomery > Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:29:17 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails > > I've never heard if damage to sails due to cold temps.? Never damaged one > when sailing in the mid-20s. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > :: M6'8" #650 > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 8:57 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > > > Hi: > > My cutoff temp was 40 degrees for sailing in Idaho. It?s in the 30s now > > and I can?t stand it. Gotta go out. Will cold temps damage sails? > > Thanks, > > Pete Winter Sky > > (Zimowsky) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 18:36:17 -0700 > From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz(a)mac.com> > To: Gary Oberbeck <gilasailr(a)aol.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails > Message-ID: <D057D757-95B5-46E1-8FFD-4A51500B5FD4(a)mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Thanks all for the info on sails > Pete > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 5, 2018, at 13:50, Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > > Ullman Sails has a sail customer wandering around the ends of the earth > sailing in very cold conditions - Check their website - interesting story. > > GO > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: casioqv <casioqv(a)usermail.com> > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Wed, Dec 5, 2018 11:15 am > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails > > > > According to this, PET (the plastic sails are made of) becomes brittle > around -40C/-40F: > > > > > https://omnexus.specialchem.com/polymer-properties/properties/ductile-britt… > > > > I'd imagine it would be possible to damage a dacron sail sailing at > -40F, but I can't imagine how you'd find such conditions with liquid water > to sail on. > > > > Sincerely, > > Tyler > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > > To: "Peter Zimowsky" <rapidz(a)mac.com>, "For and about Montgomery > Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:29:17 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails > > > > I've never heard if damage to sails due to cold temps. Never damaged one > > when sailing in the mid-20s. > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > :: M6'8" #650 > > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 8:57 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > > > >> Hi: > >> My cutoff temp was 40 degrees for sailing in Idaho. It?s in the 30s now > >> and I can?t stand it. Gotta go out. Will cold temps damage sails? > >> Thanks, > >> Pete Winter Sky > >> (Zimowsky) > >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 19:18:00 -0800 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers > Message-ID: <0f4fa394-cfae-e7b6-2eca-bf7a7e46a441(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Hi all, > > A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, on > my M17. > > Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY method) > they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? > I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on > turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the wear > & tear on sheets & sail). > > > Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. > Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector roller > on your shrouds? > They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could be > used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger boat > and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. > Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you know > of one please point me to it. > > I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap brands) > and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. > > thanks, > John > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 19:30:33 -0800 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers > Message-ID: > <CAGjBOA5TU4CHt5FnOsHKtXdYDCb4R6BOsUYKVRAJY= > 9T0iR24w(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > John: > > Get 3M '35' heavy duty electrical tape. Wrap the turnbuckles so JUST the > cotter pins are covered leaving the bodies open (no trapped water to cause > crevice corrosion). This means each turnbuckle has two tape bands: one for > the upper swage fitting pin and one for the lower t-bolt pin. Replace > yearly (you should be taking the pins out and twisting the turnbuckles a > few threads back and forth each way to assure you don't get any rusting and > fusing the turnbuckles). > > IMO no need for boots on the spreaders. As you wrote all types interfere > with raising/lowering mast and huge overkill for the Mboats. Which speader > design do you have? Fixed or the swinging? Captive uppers at the spreader > ends or held in place with a strand if rigging wire? > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > :: M6'8" #650 > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 7:18 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, on > > my M17. > > > > Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY method) > > they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? > > I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on > > turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the wear > > & tear on sheets & sail). > > > > > > Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. > > Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector roller > > on your shrouds? > > They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could be > > used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger boat > > and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. > > Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you know > > of one please point me to it. > > > > I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap brands) > > and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. > > > > thanks, > > John > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 19:40:19 -0800 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Owner - M17 Poppy > Message-ID: <9a9c7824-1623-5229-a309-251f3bacd8bf(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Welcome Les, congrats on the M-17! > > I just passed through Reno yesterday. Definitely not great sailing > weather...just around freezing and a skiff (not the boat kind) of snow > overnight. > > I'll be curious to hear about your Tahoe cruising. There's not a lot of > anchorages there it would seem to me...all pretty wide open except for > Emerald bay. But would be some gorgeous sailing. I have thought about > taking my M17 there some day (originally from Albany in the Bay area, > now living in Ashland in southern OR). > > cheers, > John > > On 11/29/2018 10:35 AM, Les Schuldt wrote: > > Hello Montysians, > > I was fortunate enough to snap up Mitch Carnes ?Grace? (now renamed > ?Poppy? for my granddaughter). Briefly owned by Craig Smith, she is the > boat featured in Craig?s M15-M17 comparison video, (Youtube ibcontent). > > I only had a chance to sail her a few times before the weather turned > cool here in Reno, but I?m hoping to join a few others for a week at Lake > Havasu, then on to the Lake Pleasant Messabout. > > I?ve sailed, raced, lived aboard, and restored wooden and fiberglass > boats for the last 30 years on S.F. Bay. As a long-time fan of Lyle Hess > designs, I think the Montgomery is going to be the perfect boat for my new > home in the Sierras. I?ve already blocked off a month next summer to spend > aboard exploring Lake Tahoe. > > > > Looking forward to meeting you all, > > Les & Ingrid Schuldt > > Reno, Nevada > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 19:50:00 -0800 > From: <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Owner - M17 Poppy > Message-ID: <724E0A6D4B144348B311E46838D05EE0@CH002914> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=response > > Les- I almost hauled my Sage to Tahoe after the Monterey race to wash the > salt off, but never got it off the ground (pun intended). Be a nice place > to float around for a week or so and get out of the Sac Valley heat. I've > done a bazillion outrigger canoe races there, mostly the Carnelian Bay > end; > if you go there next July I might be interested. I've got an old > girlfriend > who has a cabin at S Tahoe who would probably join me for a while, then > she > gets tired of me. > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Schinnerer > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 7:40 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Owner - M17 Poppy > > Welcome Les, congrats on the M-17! > > I just passed through Reno yesterday. Definitely not great sailing > weather...just around freezing and a skiff (not the boat kind) of snow > overnight. > > I'll be curious to hear about your Tahoe cruising. There's not a lot of > anchorages there it would seem to me...all pretty wide open except for > Emerald bay. But would be some gorgeous sailing. I have thought about > taking my M17 there some day (originally from Albany in the Bay area, > now living in Ashland in southern OR). > > cheers, > John > > On 11/29/2018 10:35 AM, Les Schuldt wrote: > > Hello Montysians, > > I was fortunate enough to snap up Mitch Carnes ?Grace? (now renamed > > ?Poppy? for my granddaughter). Briefly owned by Craig Smith, she is the > > boat featured in Craig?s M15-M17 comparison video, (Youtube ibcontent). > > I only had a chance to sail her a few times before the weather turned > cool > > here in Reno, but I?m hoping to join a few others for a week at Lake > > Havasu, then on to the Lake Pleasant Messabout. > > I?ve sailed, raced, lived aboard, and restored wooden and fiberglass > boats > > for the last 30 years on S.F. Bay. As a long-time fan of Lyle Hess > > designs, I think the Montgomery is going to be the perfect boat for my > new > > home in the Sierras. I?ve already blocked off a month next summer to > spend > > aboard exploring Lake Tahoe. > > > > Looking forward to meeting you all, > > Les & Ingrid Schuldt > > Reno, Nevada > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 19:58:42 -0800 > From: <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers > Message-ID: <A69E2DC2B2B6400ABCBFAF655E23D60E@CH002914> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=original > > John- What I do is to use Gorilla tape, which is 2" wide and now available > in white. I just wrap it on the bottom; it'll cover the bottom of the > barrel to keep it from turning, and also the pin on the bottom tang, which > will help keep the jibsheet from hanging up on it in a drifter. I keep a > roll on the boat because it great for taping telltails. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Scobie > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 7:30 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers,spreader > boots/rollers > > John: > > Get 3M '35' heavy duty electrical tape. Wrap the turnbuckles so JUST the > cotter pins are covered leaving the bodies open (no trapped water to cause > crevice corrosion). This means each turnbuckle has two tape bands: one for > the upper swage fitting pin and one for the lower t-bolt pin. Replace > yearly (you should be taking the pins out and twisting the turnbuckles a > few threads back and forth each way to assure you don't get any rusting and > fusing the turnbuckles). > > IMO no need for boots on the spreaders. As you wrote all types interfere > with raising/lowering mast and huge overkill for the Mboats. Which speader > design do you have? Fixed or the swinging? Captive uppers at the spreader > ends or held in place with a strand if rigging wire? > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > :: M6'8" #650 > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 7:18 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, on > > my M17. > > > > Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY method) > > they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? > > I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on > > turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the wear > > & tear on sheets & sail). > > > > > > Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. > > Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector roller > > on your shrouds? > > They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could be > > used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger boat > > and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. > > Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you know > > of one please point me to it. > > > > I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap brands) > > and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. > > > > thanks, > > John > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 20:09:20 -0800 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tender > Message-ID: <4093cca5-c5b7-10d3-b4c8-188755880b90(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I have an M17 but I will claim this reply is relevant anyhow...:-) > > Mainly because what I am going to be using (see below) is also used by > at least one Potter 15 owner, who stows it in the cabin while under way, > and that cabin is a fair bit smaller than an M15 cabin. > > I'm building a slightly modified version of the Origami folding dinghy: > http://woodenwidget.com/origami.htm > > Modified in that I'm basing it on the 6 ft. version but adding about > half a foot - a bit more at the midline - thus making the bow a bit more > vee-shaped, less blunt, which also involves changing the shape of the > bow stem piece to match the sides. Some of the angles of side pieces vs > bow and stern stems will be adjusted slightly so the fabric can be > smooth rather than wrinkled at bow and stern. > > I actually like the lines and ease of the fold/collapse system of the > Fliptail better: > http://woodenwidget.com/fliptail.htm > > ...but it is bulkier (11" thicker when folded mainly), and, the designer > tells me the Origami is a bit better for rowing/motoring (the Fliptail a > bit better for the optional sail rig). > > Here's a Duckworks article by the guy who used an Origami 6 with his > Potter 15: > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/projects/origami3/index.htm > > My slightly larger "6-plus" version will stash on one side of the > V-berth in my M17. The M15 V-berth is a few inches longer even (though > the companionway a bit smaller...but still bigger than a Potter 15 I > think). It could also stash on the settee in an M17. > > I went around and around on tender/dinghy ideas for a long time and > looked at a lot of options, including hardshell and inflatables. I've > had experience with low end (Tahiti) and high end (Aire tandem) > inflatable kayaks, and with Walker Bay dinghies, and one ride in an > M-7-11 no less. > > So far the clever folding designs of Origami or Fliptail is the coolest > option I've found. Collapses and sets up quick. Packs quite small and > light for its load capacity. Stows on board, don't have to tow. And I > can put my Honda 2.3hp auxiliary on it if I really want to zip around > fast...! > > If I were going with a hardshell, I'd probably go with a Portage Pram > (the modern version, kit or plans built): > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/463.htm > > Or possibly the CLC Eastport ultralight: > > https://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/rowboats/dinghies/eastport-ultralight-d… > > ...but the Portage Pram seems just a bit more of everything for the size > and weight. > > I'll report on the Origami in late spring/early summer when I get it > finished and do some sea (well, lake to start with) trials. > > cheers, > John > > > > On 11/29/2018 05:57 PM, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats wrote: > > Just curious what the M-15 sailors here are using for a tender. In Puget > Sound your really need one because anchorages are rugged and rocky and > beaching is a challenge or impossible. Please share your thoughts, > experiences, opinions, etc. M-17?s need not apply! (Unless you also have an > M-15. ?) > > > > Rusty > > > > www.rustyknorr.weebly.com > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2018 20:35:01 -0800 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers > Message-ID: <9e8df109-4c7d-2c37-0304-6858b79dffe5(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Thanks Dave & Jerry... > > Doesn't the Gorilla tape leave an awful mess (like duct tape) when you > take it off? I've used it for other things and if it's been on for long, > especially in warm weather, it leaves a sticky mess behind, like duct tape. > > Also, to further clarify my situation - my shrouds have toggle-jaw to > thimbles & nicopress on the upper sides, not swaged studs (came that way). > That's what catches the sheet and/or jib edge as much or more than the > turnbuckles themselves. Especially now that I have a higher-cut cruising > genny. > So just taping the turnbuckles won't do much good. > > How about a simple piece of plastic pipe over the lower part? The > commercial products seem to be some expensive version of that (except > for the soft ones of leather or synthetic fabric). > > > Re spreader boots/rollers: > My spreaders are the floppy kind - a u-shaped SS bracket on each side of > mast,held with bolt thru mast, and spreader tubes pivot on bolt thru > u-brackets. > The outboard ends of tubes have a cast aluminum piece with a slot for > the wire and a cotter pin hole across end of slot to capture the wire. > So main issue is cotter pin or equivalent (sharp metal) at end of > spreader outside shroud. > I will look into using something smooth in place of the cotter pin... > > A friend has the jib rollers on a larger boat and I like how they work. > Better idea than boots it seems to me. Keeps sail off spreader end and > also helps it roll over/past. > I've had my jib leach catch on the rubber boots in light air, another > shortcoming of those. > > thanks, > John > > > > On 12/05/2018 07:58 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > > John- What I do is to use Gorilla tape, which is 2" wide and now > > available in white.? I just wrap it on the bottom; it'll cover the > > bottom of the barrel to keep it from turning, and also the pin on the > > bottom tang, which will help keep the jibsheet from hanging up on it in > > a drifter.? I keep a roll on the boat because it great for taping > > telltails. > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 7:30 PM > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers,spreader > > boots/rollers > > > > John: > > > > Get 3M '35' heavy duty electrical tape.? Wrap the turnbuckles so JUST the > > cotter pins are covered leaving the bodies open (no trapped water to > cause > > crevice corrosion). This means each turnbuckle has two tape bands: one > for > > the upper swage fitting pin and one for the lower t-bolt pin. Replace > > yearly (you should be taking the pins out and twisting the turnbuckles a > > few threads back and forth each way to assure you don't get any rusting > and > > fusing the turnbuckles). > > > > IMO no need for boots on the spreaders.?? As you wrote all types > interfere > > with raising/lowering mast and huge overkill for the Mboats. Which > speader > > design do you have?? Fixed or the swinging?? Captive uppers at the > spreader > > ends or held in place with a strand if rigging wire? > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > :: M6'8" #650 > > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 7:18 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, on > >> my M17. > >> > >> Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY method) > >> they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? > >> I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on > >> turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the wear > >> & tear on sheets & sail). > >> > >> > >> Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. > >> Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector roller > >> on your shrouds? > >> They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could be > >> used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger boat > >> and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. > >> Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you know > >> of one please point me to it. > >> > >> I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap brands) > >> and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. > >> > >> thanks, > >> John > >> > >> -- > >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > >> -------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 08:18:20 -0500 > From: "Keith R. Martin" <keith.richard.martin(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers > Message-ID: > < > CAOQkDszLjCwSiW_KeTxwkHzB9Mq-2+hytYqaXrjXFvscRQP7HQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > John, > > For turnbuckle rollers I just use white pvc pipe (1 in" diameter I think) > cut to the desired length, and lightly sand off the ink printing on the > sides of the tube. It's not flashy, but works well and is very cheap. The > pvc doesn't have much UV resistance so I replace them every couple of > years. > > Keith > > *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng*. > *Burnaby, BC* > > *Serenity, M17 #353* > > > On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 at 23:35, John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: > > > Thanks Dave & Jerry... > > > > Doesn't the Gorilla tape leave an awful mess (like duct tape) when you > > take it off? I've used it for other things and if it's been on for long, > > especially in warm weather, it leaves a sticky mess behind, like duct > tape. > > > > Also, to further clarify my situation - my shrouds have toggle-jaw to > > thimbles & nicopress on the upper sides, not swaged studs (came that > way). > > That's what catches the sheet and/or jib edge as much or more than the > > turnbuckles themselves. Especially now that I have a higher-cut cruising > > genny. > > So just taping the turnbuckles won't do much good. > > > > How about a simple piece of plastic pipe over the lower part? The > > commercial products seem to be some expensive version of that (except > > for the soft ones of leather or synthetic fabric). > > > > > > Re spreader boots/rollers: > > My spreaders are the floppy kind - a u-shaped SS bracket on each side of > > mast,held with bolt thru mast, and spreader tubes pivot on bolt thru > > u-brackets. > > The outboard ends of tubes have a cast aluminum piece with a slot for > > the wire and a cotter pin hole across end of slot to capture the wire. > > So main issue is cotter pin or equivalent (sharp metal) at end of > > spreader outside shroud. > > I will look into using something smooth in place of the cotter pin... > > > > A friend has the jib rollers on a larger boat and I like how they work. > > Better idea than boots it seems to me. Keeps sail off spreader end and > > also helps it roll over/past. > > I've had my jib leach catch on the rubber boots in light air, another > > shortcoming of those. > > > > thanks, > > John > > > > > > > > On 12/05/2018 07:58 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > > > John- What I do is to use Gorilla tape, which is 2" wide and now > > > available in white. I just wrap it on the bottom; it'll cover the > > > bottom of the barrel to keep it from turning, and also the pin on the > > > bottom tang, which will help keep the jibsheet from hanging up on it in > > > a drifter. I keep a roll on the boat because it great for taping > > > telltails. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 7:30 PM > > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers,spreader > > > boots/rollers > > > > > > John: > > > > > > Get 3M '35' heavy duty electrical tape. Wrap the turnbuckles so JUST > the > > > cotter pins are covered leaving the bodies open (no trapped water to > > cause > > > crevice corrosion). This means each turnbuckle has two tape bands: one > > for > > > the upper swage fitting pin and one for the lower t-bolt pin. Replace > > > yearly (you should be taking the pins out and twisting the turnbuckles > a > > > few threads back and forth each way to assure you don't get any rusting > > and > > > fusing the turnbuckles). > > > > > > IMO no need for boots on the spreaders. As you wrote all types > > interfere > > > with raising/lowering mast and huge overkill for the Mboats. Which > > speader > > > design do you have? Fixed or the swinging? Captive uppers at the > > spreader > > > ends or held in place with a strand if rigging wire? > > > > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > > :: M6'8" #650 > > > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 7:18 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, > on > > >> my M17. > > >> > > >> Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY > method) > > >> they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? > > >> I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on > > >> turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the > wear > > >> & tear on sheets & sail). > > >> > > >> > > >> Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. > > >> Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector > roller > > >> on your shrouds? > > >> They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could > be > > >> used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger > boat > > >> and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. > > >> Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you > know > > >> of one please point me to it. > > >> > > >> I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap > brands) > > >> and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. > > >> > > >> thanks, > > >> John > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > >> -------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > - Eco-Living - > > Whole Systems Design Services > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > > http://eco-living.net > > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 08:36:01 -0800 > From: Les Schuldt <les.schuldt(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Owner - M17 Poppy > Message-ID: <959CAAF8-7B53-481C-B2BE-0928E3FFF667(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > John, > So far, I?ve only dipped my toe into Tahoe for about a week aboard my > previous boat, a Drascombe Lugger. I?ve spent a few nights each at Lester > Beach (DL Bliss State Park), and anchored in Emerald Bay. > > You?re correct, except for Emerald Bay, most of the anchorages are open > roadsteads, with the prevailing winds from the Southeast (mornings), > clocking to Southwest in the afternoon. In these conditions the best > overnight locations will be on the north side of any point ie: Rubicon > Point, Sugar Pine Point, Zephyr Point. The farther north you go, the more > likely you?ll be anchoring on a lee shore. (With strong southerlys, we get > surfable waves on the north shore.) I?ve also explored Skunk Harbor and > Sand Harbor by kayak and these look promising. Sand Harbor has offshore > rock piles that will offer some protection. Monitor the weather reports and > choose your anchorage carefully. > > Emerald Bay offers protection from any wind and provides quiet, calm > nights after the tourists and stereo blasting powerboats leave. Along the > north and south sides of the bay, the bottom drops away into deep water > about 10? from shore, but there are about 20 mooring balls (Boat-In > Campground) that can be reserved through Emerald Bay State Park. But the > little known secret (don?t tell anybody) is that anchoring is permitted on > a shallow sandy bottom with lots of swing room at the head of the bay for > approx. 100 yards on either side of the public pier and swim area. You can > use this anchorage as a base for beautiful day-hikes to Eagle Falls, Eagle > Lake, and beyond. Remember, lake level is 6,200 ft, so take it easy. A tour > of Vikingsholm and a couple hour kayak rental would round out a nice day > there. > > To launch at any of the ramps on Lake Tahoe, you will need to have an Anti > Invasive Species Inspection. Your bilge and outboard must be clean and DRY. > Cost is about $30, more if the boat needs to be decontaminated. > See: https://tahoeboatinspections.com/ > > The lake water is CLEAR, with 100?+ visibility, but keep your eyes open. > I?ve been in 30? of water along shore and encountered 29? diameter rocks, > just awash! Summer air temps are in the 70s and 80s, but lake temps are > mid-50s to mid-60s. > > I?m planning to be on the lake from mid-August through mid-September. I?ll > send out an invite to the group for anyone that might want to bring out > their boat and join me. > > Les > My Lugger (also named Poppy) on Emerald Bay. > > > > On Dec 5, 2018, at 7:40 PM, John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: > > > > Welcome Les, congrats on the M-17! > > > > I just passed through Reno yesterday. Definitely not great sailing > weather...just around freezing and a skiff (not the boat kind) of snow > overnight. > > > > I'll be curious to hear about your Tahoe cruising. There's not a lot of > anchorages there it would seem to me...all pretty wide open except for > Emerald bay. But would be some gorgeous sailing. I have thought about > taking my M17 there some day (originally from Albany in the Bay area, now > living in Ashland in southern OR). > > > > cheers, > > John > > > >> On 11/29/2018 10:35 AM, Les Schuldt wrote: > >> Hello Montysians, > >> I was fortunate enough to snap up Mitch Carnes ?Grace? (now renamed > ?Poppy? for my granddaughter). Briefly owned by Craig Smith, she is the > boat featured in Craig?s M15-M17 comparison video, (Youtube ibcontent). > >> I only had a chance to sail her a few times before the weather turned > cool here in Reno, but I?m hoping to join a few others for a week at Lake > Havasu, then on to the Lake Pleasant Messabout. > >> I?ve sailed, raced, lived aboard, and restored wooden and fiberglass > boats for the last 30 years on S.F. Bay. As a long-time fan of Lyle Hess > designs, I think the Montgomery is going to be the perfect boat for my new > home in the Sierras. I?ve already blocked off a month next summer to spend > aboard exploring Lake Tahoe. > >> Looking forward to meeting you all, > >> Les & Ingrid Schuldt > >> Reno, Nevada > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > - Eco-Living - > > Whole Systems Design Services > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > > http://eco-living.net > > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 10:28:29 -0800 > From: "Steve Trapp" <stevetrapp(a)Q.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Owner - M17 Poppy > Message-ID: <829FFF032113476BA105DC0F59075051@HPPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=response > > Jerry, > I had an old girl friend who sailed with me on my M-15 too, but she > became a former girlfriend when I told after the last time she sailed with > me that she was welcome to come sail with me again, but not her dog. Not > enough room on an M-15 for a dog that barks at passing boats and when I am > trimming the jib sheets to come about. > Steve > M-15 # 335 > > -----Original Message----- > From: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 7:50 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Owner - M17 Poppy > > Les- I almost hauled my Sage to Tahoe after the Monterey race to wash the > salt off, but never got it off the ground (pun intended). Be a nice place > to float around for a week or so and get out of the Sac Valley heat. I've > done a bazillion outrigger canoe races there, mostly the Carnelian Bay end; > if you go there next July I might be interested. I've got an old > girlfriend > who has a cabin at S Tahoe who would probably join me for a while, then she > gets tired of me. > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Schinnerer > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 7:40 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New Owner - M17 Poppy > > Welcome Les, congrats on the M-17! > > I just passed through Reno yesterday. Definitely not great sailing > weather...just around freezing and a skiff (not the boat kind) of snow > overnight. > > I'll be curious to hear about your Tahoe cruising. There's not a lot of > anchorages there it would seem to me...all pretty wide open except for > Emerald bay. But would be some gorgeous sailing. I have thought about > taking my M17 there some day (originally from Albany in the Bay area, > now living in Ashland in southern OR). > > cheers, > John > > On 11/29/2018 10:35 AM, Les Schuldt wrote: > > Hello Montysians, > > I was fortunate enough to snap up Mitch Carnes ?Grace? (now renamed > > ?Poppy? for my granddaughter). Briefly owned by Craig Smith, she is the > > boat featured in Craig?s M15-M17 comparison video, (Youtube ibcontent). > > I only had a chance to sail her a few times before the weather turned > cool > > here in Reno, but I?m hoping to join a few others for a week at Lake > > Havasu, then on to the Lake Pleasant Messabout. > > I?ve sailed, raced, lived aboard, and restored wooden and fiberglass > boats > > for the last 30 years on S.F. Bay. As a long-time fan of Lyle Hess > > designs, I think the Montgomery is going to be the perfect boat for my > new > > home in the Sierras. I?ve already blocked off a month next summer to > spend > > aboard exploring Lake Tahoe. > > > > Looking forward to meeting you all, > > Les & Ingrid Schuldt > > Reno, Nevada > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 10:38:06 -0800 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers > Message-ID: <31afb48e-5d21-d452-bd8f-23da09bfee66(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Thanks Connie, > > There's also a toggle between chainplate and turnbuckle of course. > > The standing rigging on the boat when I got it had nicopress/thimble at > both upper and lower ends of all stay & shroud wires. So at the lower > (turnbuckle) ends, the thimble connects to a toggle-jaw (T-toggle) on > the turnbuckles. > > I've since replaced the forestay and backstay, to accommodate the roller > reefing jib & improve/adjust mast rake. So those are now eye toggles at > masthead and swaged studs at upper side of turnbuckles. > > Shrouds are still the thimble-nicopress-toggle-jaw combo however. > > Very good info about the cotter pins. I had forgotten, but when I'd seen > cotter pins used by "professionals" in machining operations, it was done > as you describe from the S&S article. Trimmed to proper length, > smoothed, spread just enough to hold, not bent back. > > I am using cotter rings wherever possible, which reduces snagging somewhat. > > cheers, > John > > On 12/06/2018 07:55 AM, Conbert Benneck wrote: > > Hi John, > > > > If I understand you correctly, you have a toggle between the upper end > > of your turnbuckle and the shroud. > > > > The toggle should be between the chainplate and the bottom of the shroud > > turnbuckle. > > > > The shroud then attaches directly to the upper part of the turnbuckle. > > > > The toggle is put there (between turnbuckle and chainplate) to act as a > > universal joint.? Then, no matter how the rig might move, no bending > > moments can be put on the turnbuckle itself (which might bend the lower > > part of the turnbuckle making it inoperable). > > > > _________________________ > > > > _Cotter Pins_ > > > > Many years ago I read an article written by Sparkman & Stephens on how > > to correctly use cotter pins.? It was an eye-opener. > > > > When you buy cotter pins they are much too long. Just like every other > > sailor I used to bend them way back and then wrap tape over them to > > protect sails and sheets. > > > > The S&S article explained that I was doing it all wrong. > > > > Their "correct" method was to cut off a cotter pin so that it is about > > clevis pin diameter + 1/2 clevis pin diameter ( or a bit more).? So if > > you are using a 1/4" clevis pin, your cotter pin should be about 3/8" > long. > > > > Now you take a file and round off the end of the cotter pin, as well as > > rounding off the outer edges; making the end spherical in shape. > > > > Now, when you insert the cotter pin in the hole in the clevis pin, only > > about an 1/8th of an inch protrudes. You now gently spread the end of > > the cotter pin open? about 15 degrees. > > > > The cotter pin will now stay firmly in place; but can easily be removed > > with a slight pinch with a pair of pliers; and, is infinitely reusable. > > > > With no sharp cotter pin ends to catch sails or sheets this may be your > > solution. > > > > ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? -------------------------- > > > > _Shroud rollers_ > > > > I think you can make some yourself using some suitably sized? plastic > pipe. > > > > You'll need a plug with a hole at each end as a means to center the pipe > > on the shroud but you should be able to design and build one and try it > > out.? If you have a problem, then modify your design.? This sounds like > > a one Martini design project. > > > > Ciao, > > > > Connie > > > > > > On 12/5/2018 10:35 PM, John Schinnerer wrote: > >> Thanks Dave & Jerry... > >> > >> Doesn't the Gorilla tape leave an awful mess (like duct tape) when you > >> take it off? I've used it for other things and if it's been on for > >> long, especially in warm weather, it leaves a sticky mess behind, like > >> duct tape. > >> > >> Also, to further clarify my situation - my shrouds have toggle-jaw to > >> thimbles & nicopress on the upper sides, not swaged studs (came that > >> way). > >> That's what catches the sheet and/or jib edge as much or more than the > >> turnbuckles themselves. Especially now that I have a higher-cut > >> cruising genny. > >> So just taping the turnbuckles won't do much good. > >> > >> How about a simple piece of plastic pipe over the lower part? The > >> commercial products seem to be some expensive version of that (except > >> for the soft ones of leather or synthetic fabric). > >> > >> > >> Re spreader boots/rollers: > >> My spreaders are the floppy kind - a u-shaped SS bracket on each side > >> of mast,held with bolt thru mast, and spreader tubes pivot on bolt > >> thru u-brackets. > >> The outboard ends of tubes have a cast aluminum piece with a slot for > >> the wire and a cotter pin hole across end of slot to capture the wire. > >> So main issue is cotter pin or equivalent (sharp metal) at end of > >> spreader outside shroud. > >> I will look into using something smooth in place of the cotter pin... > >> > >> A friend has the jib rollers on a larger boat and I like how they > >> work. Better idea than boots it seems to me. Keeps sail off spreader > >> end and also helps it roll over/past. > >> I've had my jib leach catch on the rubber boots in light air, another > >> shortcoming of those. > >> > >> thanks, > >> John > >> > >> > >> > >> On 12/05/2018 07:58 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > >>> John- What I do is to use Gorilla tape, which is 2" wide and now > >>> available in white.? I just wrap it on the bottom; it'll cover the > >>> bottom of the barrel to keep it from turning, and also the pin on the > >>> bottom tang, which will help keep the jibsheet from hanging up on it > >>> in a drifter.? I keep a roll on the boat because it great for taping > >>> telltails. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie > >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 7:30 PM > >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers,spreader > >>> boots/rollers > >>> > >>> John: > >>> > >>> Get 3M '35' heavy duty electrical tape.? Wrap the turnbuckles so JUST > >>> the > >>> cotter pins are covered leaving the bodies open (no trapped water to > >>> cause > >>> crevice corrosion). This means each turnbuckle has two tape bands: > >>> one for > >>> the upper swage fitting pin and one for the lower t-bolt pin. Replace > >>> yearly (you should be taking the pins out and twisting the turnbuckles > a > >>> few threads back and forth each way to assure you don't get any > >>> rusting and > >>> fusing the turnbuckles). > >>> > >>> IMO no need for boots on the spreaders.?? As you wrote all types > >>> interfere > >>> with raising/lowering mast and huge overkill for the Mboats. Which > >>> speader > >>> design do you have?? Fixed or the swinging?? Captive uppers at the > >>> spreader > >>> ends or held in place with a strand if rigging wire? > >>> > >>> > >>> :: Dave Scobie > >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > >>> :: M6'8" #650 > >>> :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 7:18 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net > wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, > on > >>>> my M17. > >>>> > >>>> Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY > >>>> method) > >>>> they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? > >>>> I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on > >>>> turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the > wear > >>>> & tear on sheets & sail). > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. > >>>> Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector > >>>> roller > >>>> on your shrouds? > >>>> They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could > be > >>>> used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger > >>>> boat > >>>> and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. > >>>> Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you > know > >>>> of one please point me to it. > >>>> > >>>> I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap > brands) > >>>> and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. > >>>> > >>>> thanks, > >>>> John > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > >>>> -------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 10:52:54 -0800 > From: <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers > Message-ID: <B7D48A623D1343BF94E322372C438CAF@CH002914> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=response > > I haven't had a problem with Gorilla tape sticking things up, but lacquer > thinner would cut it like butter. > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Schinnerer > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 8:35 PM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader > boots/rollers > > Thanks Dave & Jerry... > > Doesn't the Gorilla tape leave an awful mess (like duct tape) when you > take it off? I've used it for other things and if it's been on for long, > especially in warm weather, it leaves a sticky mess behind, like duct tape. > > Also, to further clarify my situation - my shrouds have toggle-jaw to > thimbles & nicopress on the upper sides, not swaged studs (came that way). > That's what catches the sheet and/or jib edge as much or more than the > turnbuckles themselves. Especially now that I have a higher-cut cruising > genny. > So just taping the turnbuckles won't do much good. > > How about a simple piece of plastic pipe over the lower part? The > commercial products seem to be some expensive version of that (except > for the soft ones of leather or synthetic fabric). > > > Re spreader boots/rollers: > My spreaders are the floppy kind - a u-shaped SS bracket on each side of > mast,held with bolt thru mast, and spreader tubes pivot on bolt thru > u-brackets. > The outboard ends of tubes have a cast aluminum piece with a slot for > the wire and a cotter pin hole across end of slot to capture the wire. > So main issue is cotter pin or equivalent (sharp metal) at end of > spreader outside shroud. > I will look into using something smooth in place of the cotter pin... > > A friend has the jib rollers on a larger boat and I like how they work. > Better idea than boots it seems to me. Keeps sail off spreader end and > also helps it roll over/past. > I've had my jib leach catch on the rubber boots in light air, another > shortcoming of those. > > thanks, > John > > > > On 12/05/2018 07:58 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > > John- What I do is to use Gorilla tape, which is 2" wide and now > available > > in white. I just wrap it on the bottom; it'll cover the bottom of the > > barrel to keep it from turning, and also the pin on the bottom tang, > which > > will help keep the jibsheet from hanging up on it in a drifter. I keep > a > > roll on the boat because it great for taping telltails. > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 7:30 PM > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers,spreader > > boots/rollers > > > > John: > > > > Get 3M '35' heavy duty electrical tape. Wrap the turnbuckles so JUST the > > cotter pins are covered leaving the bodies open (no trapped water to > cause > > crevice corrosion). This means each turnbuckle has two tape bands: one > for > > the upper swage fitting pin and one for the lower t-bolt pin. Replace > > yearly (you should be taking the pins out and twisting the turnbuckles a > > few threads back and forth each way to assure you don't get any rusting > > and > > fusing the turnbuckles). > > > > IMO no need for boots on the spreaders. As you wrote all types > interfere > > with raising/lowering mast and huge overkill for the Mboats. Which > speader > > design do you have? Fixed or the swinging? Captive uppers at the > > spreader > > ends or held in place with a strand if rigging wire? > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > :: M6'8" #650 > > :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 7:18 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, on > >> my M17. > >> > >> Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY method) > >> they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? > >> I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on > >> turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the wear > >> & tear on sheets & sail). > >> > >> > >> Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. > >> Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector roller > >> on your shrouds? > >> They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could be > >> used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger boat > >> and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. > >> Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you know > >> of one please point me to it. > >> > >> I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap brands) > >> and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. > >> > >> thanks, > >> John > >> > >> -- > >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > >> -------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > ------------------------------ > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 190, Issue 4 > ************************************************ >

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Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader boots/rollers
by John Schinnerer 06 Dec '18

06 Dec '18

Hi all, A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, on my M17. Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY method) they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the wear & tear on sheets & sail). Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector roller on your shrouds? They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could be used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger boat and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you know of one please point me to it. I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap brands) and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. thanks, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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New Owner - M17 Poppy
by Les Schuldt 06 Dec '18

06 Dec '18

Hello Montysians, I was fortunate enough to snap up Mitch Carnes “Grace” (now renamed “Poppy” for my granddaughter). Briefly owned by Craig Smith, she is the boat featured in Craig’s M15-M17 comparison video, (Youtube ibcontent). I only had a chance to sail her a few times before the weather turned cool here in Reno, but I’m hoping to join a few others for a week at Lake Havasu, then on to the Lake Pleasant Messabout. I’ve sailed, raced, lived aboard, and restored wooden and fiberglass boats for the last 30 years on S.F. Bay. As a long-time fan of Lyle Hess designs, I think the Montgomery is going to be the perfect boat for my new home in the Sierras. I’ve already blocked off a month next summer to spend aboard exploring Lake Tahoe. Looking forward to meeting you all, Les & Ingrid Schuldt Reno, Nevada

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Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers, spreader boots/rollers
by John Schinnerer 06 Dec '18

06 Dec '18

Thanks Connie, There's also a toggle between chainplate and turnbuckle of course. The standing rigging on the boat when I got it had nicopress/thimble at both upper and lower ends of all stay & shroud wires. So at the lower (turnbuckle) ends, the thimble connects to a toggle-jaw (T-toggle) on the turnbuckles. I've since replaced the forestay and backstay, to accommodate the roller reefing jib & improve/adjust mast rake. So those are now eye toggles at masthead and swaged studs at upper side of turnbuckles. Shrouds are still the thimble-nicopress-toggle-jaw combo however. Very good info about the cotter pins. I had forgotten, but when I'd seen cotter pins used by "professionals" in machining operations, it was done as you describe from the S&S article. Trimmed to proper length, smoothed, spread just enough to hold, not bent back. I am using cotter rings wherever possible, which reduces snagging somewhat. cheers, John On 12/06/2018 07:55 AM, Conbert Benneck wrote: > Hi John, > > If I understand you correctly, you have a toggle between the upper end > of your turnbuckle and the shroud. > > The toggle should be between the chainplate and the bottom of the shroud > turnbuckle. > > The shroud then attaches directly to the upper part of the turnbuckle. > > The toggle is put there (between turnbuckle and chainplate) to act as a > universal joint. Then, no matter how the rig might move, no bending > moments can be put on the turnbuckle itself (which might bend the lower > part of the turnbuckle making it inoperable). > > _________________________ > > _Cotter Pins_ > > Many years ago I read an article written by Sparkman & Stephens on how > to correctly use cotter pins. It was an eye-opener. > > When you buy cotter pins they are much too long. Just like every other > sailor I used to bend them way back and then wrap tape over them to > protect sails and sheets. > > The S&S article explained that I was doing it all wrong. > > Their "correct" method was to cut off a cotter pin so that it is about > clevis pin diameter + 1/2 clevis pin diameter ( or a bit more). So if > you are using a 1/4" clevis pin, your cotter pin should be about 3/8" long. > > Now you take a file and round off the end of the cotter pin, as well as > rounding off the outer edges; making the end spherical in shape. > > Now, when you insert the cotter pin in the hole in the clevis pin, only > about an 1/8th of an inch protrudes. You now gently spread the end of > the cotter pin open about 15 degrees. > > The cotter pin will now stay firmly in place; but can easily be removed > with a slight pinch with a pair of pliers; and, is infinitely reusable. > > With no sharp cotter pin ends to catch sails or sheets this may be your > solution. > > -------------------------- > > _Shroud rollers_ > > I think you can make some yourself using some suitably sized plastic pipe. > > You'll need a plug with a hole at each end as a means to center the pipe > on the shroud but you should be able to design and build one and try it > out. If you have a problem, then modify your design. This sounds like > a one Martini design project. > > Ciao, > > Connie > > > On 12/5/2018 10:35 PM, John Schinnerer wrote: >> Thanks Dave & Jerry... >> >> Doesn't the Gorilla tape leave an awful mess (like duct tape) when you >> take it off? I've used it for other things and if it's been on for >> long, especially in warm weather, it leaves a sticky mess behind, like >> duct tape. >> >> Also, to further clarify my situation - my shrouds have toggle-jaw to >> thimbles & nicopress on the upper sides, not swaged studs (came that >> way). >> That's what catches the sheet and/or jib edge as much or more than the >> turnbuckles themselves. Especially now that I have a higher-cut >> cruising genny. >> So just taping the turnbuckles won't do much good. >> >> How about a simple piece of plastic pipe over the lower part? The >> commercial products seem to be some expensive version of that (except >> for the soft ones of leather or synthetic fabric). >> >> >> Re spreader boots/rollers: >> My spreaders are the floppy kind - a u-shaped SS bracket on each side >> of mast,held with bolt thru mast, and spreader tubes pivot on bolt >> thru u-brackets. >> The outboard ends of tubes have a cast aluminum piece with a slot for >> the wire and a cotter pin hole across end of slot to capture the wire. >> So main issue is cotter pin or equivalent (sharp metal) at end of >> spreader outside shroud. >> I will look into using something smooth in place of the cotter pin... >> >> A friend has the jib rollers on a larger boat and I like how they >> work. Better idea than boots it seems to me. Keeps sail off spreader >> end and also helps it roll over/past. >> I've had my jib leach catch on the rubber boots in light air, another >> shortcoming of those. >> >> thanks, >> John >> >> >> >> On 12/05/2018 07:58 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: >>> John- What I do is to use Gorilla tape, which is 2" wide and now >>> available in white. I just wrap it on the bottom; it'll cover the >>> bottom of the barrel to keep it from turning, and also the pin on the >>> bottom tang, which will help keep the jibsheet from hanging up on it >>> in a drifter. I keep a roll on the boat because it great for taping >>> telltails. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2018 7:30 PM >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Recommendations for turnbuckle covers,spreader >>> boots/rollers >>> >>> John: >>> >>> Get 3M '35' heavy duty electrical tape. Wrap the turnbuckles so JUST >>> the >>> cotter pins are covered leaving the bodies open (no trapped water to >>> cause >>> crevice corrosion). This means each turnbuckle has two tape bands: >>> one for >>> the upper swage fitting pin and one for the lower t-bolt pin. Replace >>> yearly (you should be taking the pins out and twisting the turnbuckles a >>> few threads back and forth each way to assure you don't get any >>> rusting and >>> fusing the turnbuckles). >>> >>> IMO no need for boots on the spreaders. As you wrote all types >>> interfere >>> with raising/lowering mast and huge overkill for the Mboats. Which >>> speader >>> design do you have? Fixed or the swinging? Captive uppers at the >>> spreader >>> ends or held in place with a strand if rigging wire? >>> >>> >>> :: Dave Scobie >>> :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com >>> :: M6'8" #650 >>> :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 7:18 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> A couple things I want to get in place, or improve, for next season, on >>>> my M17. >>>> >>>> Anyone have a particular shroud/turnbuckle cover product (or DIY >>>> method) >>>> they can recommend (meaning you've used it and it works well for you)? >>>> I want to be done with jib sheet and/or jib edge catching on >>>> turnbuckles/lower shrouds (not to mention want to be done with the wear >>>> & tear on sheets & sail). >>>> >>>> >>>> Same question re spreader boots or jib rollers. >>>> Has anyone used the Forespar jib roller or Harken chafe protector >>>> roller >>>> on your shrouds? >>>> They are spec'd for 3/16" and up wire, but I imagine a bushing could be >>>> used on 1/8" wire. Saw these rollers in action on a friend's larger >>>> boat >>>> and seems all around smarter approach than spreader boots. >>>> Can't find anyone making a smaller roller for 1/8" wire but if you know >>>> of one please point me to it. >>>> >>>> I have tried the rubber spreader boots (taylor made or whitecap brands) >>>> and IMO they suck; too stiff of material, poor fit, etc.. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> John >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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Tender
by Rusty Knorr 05 Dec '18

05 Dec '18

Just curious what the M-15 sailors here are using for a tender. In Puget Sound your really need one because anchorages are rugged and rocky and beaching is a challenge or impossible. Please share your thoughts, experiences, opinions, etc. M-17’s need not apply! (Unless you also have an M-15. 😜) Rusty www.rustyknorr.weebly.com

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Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails
by Gary Oberbeck 05 Dec '18

05 Dec '18

Ullman Sails has a sail customer wandering around the ends of the earth sailing in very cold conditions - Check their website - interesting story. GO -----Original Message----- From: casioqv <casioqv(a)usermail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Dec 5, 2018 11:15 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails According to this, PET (the plastic sails are made of) becomes brittle around -40C/-40F: https://omnexus.specialchem.com/polymer-properties/properties/ductile-britt… I'd imagine it would be possible to damage a dacron sail sailing at -40F, but I can't imagine how you'd find such conditions with liquid water to sail on. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "scoobscobie" <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> To: "Peter Zimowsky" <rapidz(a)mac.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 5, 2018 9:29:17 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: cold weather and sails I've never heard if damage to sails due to cold temps. Never damaged one when sailing in the mid-20s. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 8:57 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > Hi: > My cutoff temp was 40 degrees for sailing in Idaho. It’s in the 30s now > and I can’t stand it. Gotta go out. Will cold temps damage sails? > Thanks, > Pete Winter Sky > (Zimowsky) >

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cold weather and sails
by Peter Zimowsky 05 Dec '18

05 Dec '18

Hi: My cutoff temp was 40 degrees for sailing in Idaho. It’s in the 30s now and I can’t stand it. Gotta go out. Will cold temps damage sails? Thanks, Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.

4 3

Re: M_Boats: Tender
by Gary Oberbeck 02 Dec '18

02 Dec '18

How do you know the temperature of "cow pee" ??? Do I really want to know the answer?..... GO -----Original Message----- From: jerry <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> To: Gary Oberbeck <gilasailr(a)aol.com>; montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 5:25 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tender This might bore some, but you can always print it out and use it to wallpaper the bathroom. I have some experience in towing long, narrow boats; our canoe/kayak racing club used to hold a big race at lake Tahoe, which is usually fairly calm but every few years would kick up during the race an a few would have to be rescued. We always had a couple of chase boats on the job, and when we spotted a capsized canoe (mostly USCA marathon canoes, which are narrow, especially in the ends), we would take the paddler aboard, dump the water out of the canoe, and tow it in. The key to towing it in waves was to take care in the length of the painter, and of course the speed, which would normally be just sub-planing. The canoe, with no paddler would be very light (sub 30 lbs) and was very buoyant. I think a 15' sailing canoe, which is pretty stable compared to a racing canoe, would not be a problem behind a sailboat unless it was really rough. I've towed dinghies quite a few times behind an M-17, both from Newport Beach to Catalina and in Mexico. Again, one of the keys is the length of the painter. The 5-8 and 6-8 prams were noticably better than the larger stem dingies, and with both it was important to attach the tow line as low as possible at the bow of the dinghy. On the nearly 4K dinghies we made, we put the painter hole as low as we could. With the M-15, if Wifie was with me, I would nose up to the beach and let her out, then back off a bit and anchor. No need for a dinghy in those waters. I'd swim in; the water in the Gulf most of the year is cow-pee warm. I usually went with a group of boats from Tucson, and normally we would go to the beach only for a fishfeed , or for some hiking during the day. I once hiked across Tiberon isl from Las Cruses Bay to Dog Bay, hoping the Seri Indians would not catch and eat me. What a stud! Once, when I took a 15, we used the 15 for the shore boat and we had at one time 12 people aboard. We had to plug up the cockpit drain to keep from flooding the cockpit (obviously, in order to figure that one out we were totally sober). A good time was had by all. Obviously. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats Sent: Friday, November 30, 2018 3:08 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tender Connie I agree on the aspect of the dinghy availability and on the emergency and everyday use of an inflatable - PIA ! ' just a minute while I pump 400+ liters into this big condom ----errrr where's the dam* pump!?!?!' The issue on the M-15 is of course storage or a small boat towing any size dinghy, Larry Yake has used a rigid kayak and others seem to have good experience with inflatables. I am lucky and sail a M-17 with a M 7-11 (getting refurbbed for the grandkids) if and when I need a dinghy - pretty good rowing boat, stable, good sailer and perfect for teaching the young ones. The only inflatable I have ever had fun with was a Zodiac Grand Raid 15+ foot with a tiller steer 40hp Evinrude - my father saw them at a trade show and took on the line - got the GR for himself as a demo and we kept it inflated on a custom trailer indoors - 2nd fastest acceleration I have ever experienced on water! We used to chase the blown V8 flat bottoms around and absolutely humble them with our 'machinery grey weiner boat' ! The bikini clad ladies loved it! One day I'll tell you how I got THE perfect set of oars for the 7-11 - great story! 7' Shaw & Tenney's in spruce. Keep your helpful comments and experiences coming to the list - we all look forward to them! Take Care, Have fUn, Go sailing! GO -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> To: Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 1:42 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tender Hi Gary, I am totally against anything that is inflatable - or that has to be inflated first before it can be used in a case of emergency. My experience: We were going from Rotterdam to Paris via inland waterways. Our Norwegian power boat was brand new. In the Dutch canal we were in, with a bow to stern stream of loaded barges going in both directions our boat suddenly stopped moving and ended up crosswise in the canal blocking traffic in both directions. Our diesel engine was running but the propeller wasn't turning. Now what.....? I jumped into my hard 9' Dutch dinghy, tied a painter to the motor boat got out the dinghy's oars and rowed like mad to get to the side of the canal and let traffic flow again. For my prompt action in getting the commercial traffic moving , I received some friendly toots from the barge Captains that had seen what had happened. I called the SABB engine dealer in Rotterdam and explained the problem. An hour later he was there; toolbox in hand; inspected the engine and found that a set screw had loosened disconnecting the propeller shaft from the engine. After tightening the set screw, and safety-wiring it in place, we continued on our trip with nary a problem during the time we owned the boat. In such a situation do you really want to inflate your dinghy before it can be used? I don't. I want a hard dinghy that is instantly usable if I loose something overboard; or to row out a second anchor at 2 AM when it is blowing 20 knots. Connie On 11/30/2018 1:19 PM, Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats wrote: > I would look for a clean used M-5-8* . Had one we used way back in the > day - oars and a 2 horse -(2 hp not my idea). You are cruising right?? > {;>) > *titanium hens teeth are about as plentiful! Some boats use > inflatable kayaks with good reports. > Take Care, Have fUn, Go Sailing! Come on down to Lake > Pleasant in Feb. - there is a fleet of 15's scheduled to show up!GO > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 7:17 pm > Subject: M_Boats: Tender > > Just curious what the M-15 sailors here are using for a tender. In Puget > Sound your really need one because anchorages are rugged and rocky and > beaching is a challenge or impossible. Please share your thoughts, > experiences, opinions, etc. M-17’s need not apply! (Unless you also have > an M-15. 😜) > > Rusty > > www.rustyknorr.weebly.com

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Re: M_Boats: Fwd: Tender
by Gary Oberbeck 30 Nov '18

30 Nov '18

Keith, Nice boarding ladder.Nice boat! GO -----Original Message----- From: Keith R. Martin <keith.richard.martin(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 5:12 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: Tender I use a old school Stearns inflatable Kayak as my tender. It is fairly rugged, tracks reasonably well in coastal waters in light weather or sheltered water. It weighs 26 lbs & folds up into a storage bag that fits out of the way down the side of one of my quarter births out of sight &mind until I need it.. I have a manual canister pump that does the job inflating it in just a couple of minutes. Once I bring it out and pump it up, I just tow it behind like a hard shell, until I return home or have another reason to stow it. I find it to be a pretty good solution for boats our size... There is a picture of it here on Serenity's MPhoto page: https://www.msogphotosite.com/Scripts/General/imageviewer.php?objectid=105&… Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng*. *Burnaby, BC* *Serenity M17, #353* On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 at 15:23, Alex Conley <conley.alex(a)gmail.com> wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Alex Conley <conley.alex(a)gmail.com> > Date: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 3:22 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tender > To: Gary Oberbeck <gilasailr(a)aol.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats > < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > Hmm- I’m not a big fan of inflatables, but for a boat the size of an m15 a > good canoe paddle can serve as emergency propulsion in the situation Connie > describes. > > The better of the inflatable paddle boards now about might be surprisingly > effective as a tender in many cases (even if used sitting or kneeling) and > be smaller when deflated and quicker to inflate... the wide recreational > ones do surprisingly well w two adults. Maybe with a dry bag or plastic bin > to transport gear n supplies? > > I laugh at the idea of my 15’ cruiser towing my 13.5’ sailing canoe > (Ougtred’s McGregor design) but I may just have to try it. Anyone have > experience towing a long skinny boat like that? Or is it just asking to > trip up on waves and swamp? > > Curious to hear others tender tales! > > Alex > On Fri, Nov 30, 2018 at 3:08 PM Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > Connie > > I agree on the aspect of the dinghy availability and on the emergency and > > everyday use of an inflatable - PIA ! ' just a minute while I pump 400+ > > liters into this big condom ----errrr where's the dam* pump!?!?!' > > The issue on the M-15 is of course storage or a small boat towing any > size > > dinghy, Larry Yake has used a rigid kayak and others seem to have good > > experience with inflatables. > > I am lucky and sail a M-17 with a M 7-11 (getting refurbbed for the > > grandkids) if and when I need a dinghy - pretty good rowing boat, stable, > > good sailer and perfect for teaching the young ones. > > > > The only inflatable I have ever had fun with was a Zodiac Grand Raid 15+ > > foot with a tiller steer 40hp Evinrude - my father saw them at a trade > show > > and took on the line - got the GR for himself as a demo and we kept it > > inflated on a custom trailer indoors - 2nd fastest acceleration I have > ever > > experienced on water! We used to chase the blown V8 flat bottoms around > and > > absolutely humble them with our 'machinery grey weiner boat' ! The bikini > > clad ladies loved it! > > One day I'll tell you how I got THE perfect set of oars for the 7-11 - > > great story! 7' Shaw & Tenney's in spruce. > > > > Keep your helpful comments and experiences coming to the list - we all > > look forward to them! > > Take Care, Have fUn, Go sailing! > > GO > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> > > To: Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 1:42 pm > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tender > > > > Hi Gary, > > > > I am totally against anything that is inflatable - or that has to be > > inflated first before it can be used in a case of emergency. > > > > My experience: We were going from Rotterdam to Paris via inland > > waterways. Our Norwegian power boat was brand new. In the Dutch canal > > we were in, with a bow to stern stream of loaded barges going in both > > directions our boat suddenly stopped moving and ended up crosswise in > > the canal blocking traffic in both directions. Our diesel engine was > > running but the propeller wasn't turning. Now what.....? > > > > I jumped into my hard 9' Dutch dinghy, tied a painter to the motor boat > > got out the dinghy's oars and rowed like mad to get to the side of the > > canal and let traffic flow again. > > > > For my prompt action in getting the commercial traffic moving , I > > received some friendly toots from the barge Captains that had seen what > > had happened. > > > > I called the SABB engine dealer in Rotterdam and explained the problem. > > An hour later he was there; toolbox in hand; inspected the engine and > > found that a set screw had loosened disconnecting the propeller shaft > > from the engine. After tightening the set screw, and safety-wiring it in > > place, we continued on our trip with nary a problem during the time we > > owned the boat. > > > > In such a situation do you really want to inflate your dinghy before it > > can be used? I don't. I want a hard dinghy that is instantly usable if > > I loose something overboard; or to row out a second anchor at 2 AM when > > it is blowing 20 knots. > > > > Connie > > > > > > On 11/30/2018 1:19 PM, Gary Oberbeck via montgomery_boats wrote: > > > I would look for a clean used M-5-8* . Had one we used way back in the > > day - oars and a 2 horse -(2 hp not my idea). You are cruising right?? > {;>) > > > *titanium hens teeth are about as plentiful! Some boats use > > inflatable kayaks with good reports. > > > Take Care, Have fUn, Go Sailing! Come on down to Lake > > Pleasant in Feb. - there is a fleet of 15's scheduled to show up!GO > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2018 7:17 pm > > > Subject: M_Boats: Tender > > > > > > Just curious what the M-15 sailors here are using for a tender. In > Puget > > Sound your really need one because anchorages are rugged and rocky and > > beaching is a challenge or impossible. Please share your thoughts, > > experiences, opinions, etc. M-17’s need not apply! (Unless you also have > an > > M-15. 😜) > > > > > > Rusty > > > > > > www.rustyknorr.weebly.com > > >

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