July 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: My Superior Trip
by Doug Kelch 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

Most people bring far too much stuff on a cruise. Keep it simple and think like a backpacker. Do I really need this? I limit myself to 2 12"x12"x24" bags for cloths for two weeks. As to stoves, a wide base propane or butane are best. It depends on what fuel is readily available in your area. I switch to propane because I can buy it anywhere while butane is more of a specialty item. Butane wins the morning coffee race every time. I use a one burner Colman propane stove but will admit that the one burner butane stoves are easier to use and more compact. Alcohol stoves are ok but you can't see the flame and they lose the morning coffee race. The basic choice for cooking on an m15 is to go with ice or no ice. If you use ice the Colman 5 day cooler really works as long as you don't open it very often. If you do not have a 5 day cooler and you use ice your trip will be haunted by the concern of finding your next ice supply. Traveling without a dependency on ice is very liberating and you will not need a marina or store for the entire week. I like to eat well and have varied my cooking style from gourmet ( grilled salmon with dill sauce, rice and a fresh vegetable) to the one pot meal like a quick rice or pasta and a can of ham/salmon or even a can of stew. I wish I could join you. thanks Doug M15G "Seas the Day" --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith(a)gmail.com> wrote: From: Chris Smith <chris.r.smith(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: My Superior Trip To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission..com> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:30 PM Hello all, As the best repository of opinions and good information I know of for 'live-aboard' sailing the M15, I've got a question: I'm setting myself up to take my first weeklong outing to the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior for the first week in August. Is there any gear that has been the 'Doh! Should have brought that!' oversight in your trips? Any advice for cooking on a M15? I've got a water purifier and am considering which kind of camp stove to get to possibly cook on board... I think I'll have to opportunity to get on shore and camp, but it'd be nice to be able to sleep and cook aboard. Thanks! -- Chris _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: m15 cookin'
by W David Scobie 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

i don't suggest using a white gas camp stove. propane or butane with a wide base. i have a max burton butane stove that was used on my m15 and now the m17. on the 15 i would set up the kitchen on one side of the cockpit seats and sit on the other. if the anchorage was rough i would place the stove on the floor of the cockpit. be aware that propane and butane gas will settle in the bilge is you have a canister and/or stove leak. dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith(a)gmail.com> wrote: Hello all, As the best repository of opinions and good information I know of for 'live-aboard' sailing the M15, I've got a question: I'm setting myself up to take my first weeklong outing to the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior for the first week in August. Is there any gear that has been the 'Doh! Should have brought that!' oversight in your trips? Any advice for cooking on a M15? I've got a water purifier and am considering which kind of camp stove to get to possibly cook on board... I think I'll have to opportunity to get on shore and camp, but it'd be nice to be able to sleep and cook aboard. Thanks! -- Chris

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Re: M_Boats: My Superior Trip
by Chris Smith 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

Hello all, As the best repository of opinions and good information I know of for 'live-aboard' sailing the M15, I've got a question: I'm setting myself up to take my first weeklong outing to the Apostle Islands in Lake Superior for the first week in August. Is there any gear that has been the 'Doh! Should have brought that!' oversight in your trips? Any advice for cooking on a M15? I've got a water purifier and am considering which kind of camp stove to get to possibly cook on board... I think I'll have to opportunity to get on shore and camp, but it'd be nice to be able to sleep and cook aboard. Thanks! -- Chris

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Re: M_Boats: proper sail selection...
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

Hi Jerry, Sorry 'bout your friend. When you get to be our age, it seems to happen more often. Hey Blake, We have been sailing a Moore 24 in Colorado for 25 years. fine boat. We have 2 reef points on our main, but we've done a bunch of heavy weather mountain lake sailing with the full main and a 95% jib. We're waiting on a M-23 but it's taking longer than hoped so we're in the process of purchasing a M-15 so we can get to sail a Montgomery this year. We'd be interested in your conclusions. We'll be making the same choices. Do you recommend Elliot Pattison as a sailmaker? Where are they? We'll need new sails for our M-15. Jerry, can you recommend any sailmakers for the M-15? sal In a message dated 7/13/2009 6:35:19 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org writes: Blake- good luck at the Potter race. I was sort of planning on being there to keep you honest, but an old friend up and died on us, and his memorial is the same day. Kick butt, and make us look good! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blake Reimer" <blkreimer(a)yahoo.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: M_Boats: proper sail selection... Reading recent posts re: when to reef, change sails, etc. leaves me wanting my two cents in the pool and hoping for feedback, so fire away. Just a few weeks ago I received my new Elliot Pattison main and what everyone else must refer to as a 'storm jib' - I would call it an '85', as in percent, or #3. I have only been out twice in the new sails and both days the wind was light and I didn't get to really get a good read on either - except that the new main seems to resist excessive healing much better than the old, blown out main I had before. I ordered the 'storm jib' for two reasons: the first being that the bulk of my prior experience was racing in the Moore 24 fleet in Santa Cruz. Most Moore 24s don't have reef points on the main and the jib is changed in response to the wind instead. It seemed to work there and I wanted to work with what I know best on IOTA. My experience w/ the M-15 with the full main and the 110/working/#2 sail is that weather helm is an issue over about 12kts. Putting in the first reef helped but the boats responsiveness went down the drain and a gust would still round me up without reefing the jib. Reefing the jib left the boat handling like a garbage scow, hence my second reason for the small jib: Try to keep well cut sails in the air before wadding them halfway down on the boom. Now my sailplan will work something like: 10-12kts main and regular #2 jib. 10-15kts main and 'storm'/#3/85% jib. 15-20+ First reef and storm jib. 20++ I really gotta wonder, what am I doing out here in a 15ft boat? This plan has the added advantage of heading to the bow to change the foresail before it really pipes up; I figure this is a good idea on an M-15 - lifelines or not. With typical summer weather upon Monterey Bay, I should be able to test my new plan soon and will report back. Lemme know what you think..... Blake Reimer M-15 IOTA P.S. I'm hardly an expert, and I like the fit, finish and price of EP's OEM M-15 sails. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)

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Re: M_Boats: Heaving to
by Doug Kelch 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

David, Those mountain winds do pack a punch. I was a member of the "Why Buy" boat club at Chatfield and Cherry Creek for two seasons but only sailed on Monday and Tuesday evenings. There was a nice M17 with a green boot stripe on Cherry Creek but I never saw a Montgomery on Chatfield. I think you have the heaving too down pretty well. I sail an M15 and the sail configuration is different, much smaller jib relative to the main but under very high winds I would drop the 85% jib and heave too under the double reefed main as well. Thanks Doug Kelch, M15G #310, "Seas the Day" --- On Tue, 7/14/09, David C. Patterson <davidcpatterson(a)msn.com> wrote: From: David C. Patterson <davidcpatterson(a)msn.com> Subject: M_Boats: Heaving to To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:25 AM I have been enjoying the discussion about sail choice. It helps me think through my situation sailing on a reservoir (Chatfield) near Denver. When storm cells roll over the mountains some of the best winds for sailing occur, and coincidentally most of the power boats run for cover. But to take advantage of those great times means being out for the heaviest winds, at times at 30+mph. After the main force of the cell diminishes there is another period of exciting sailing, of course. At the height of the winds I will heave to for 20 or 30 minutes (sometimes longer if I have misjudged the event), watch the scene, or even make a cup of tea on the old SeaCook stove that came with my 17 (1985 #393). At first-and I am only a few of seasons in to sailing-my heaving to was out of the necessity of poor planning and poor weather watching. Now I have really come to trust the boat's abilities. Lately I have been heaving to under reefed main alone, to limit how much forereaching I have to deal with on my restricted sailing ground. The first time I did it was to be able to change sheets easily on the jib after reefing it. Pretty hard to do if the backed sail is still up, as you all know. I was amazed at how well she held position and how stable she was in Force 6 and even briefly Force 7 winds, hove to under reefed main alone. Anyway, I would love to have input from some of you more experienced sailors about sail choices when you are heaving to on your M17s. I don't use my 85% jib; I use my 100% working jib because it is reefable and I can rig a separate downhaul for the reef, and another for the whole sail. With the jib reefed and a second reef in the main, Cloud Girl remains stable and nimble for sailing in pretty significant wind, as well. And by the way, she is remarkably dry when the spray is flying. Thanks, David _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Heaving to
by David C. Patterson 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

I have been enjoying the discussion about sail choice. It helps me think through my situation sailing on a reservoir (Chatfield) near Denver. When storm cells roll over the mountains some of the best winds for sailing occur, and coincidentally most of the power boats run for cover. But to take advantage of those great times means being out for the heaviest winds, at times at 30+mph. After the main force of the cell diminishes there is another period of exciting sailing, of course. At the height of the winds I will heave to for 20 or 30 minutes (sometimes longer if I have misjudged the event), watch the scene, or even make a cup of tea on the old SeaCook stove that came with my 17 (1985 #393). At first-and I am only a few of seasons in to sailing-my heaving to was out of the necessity of poor planning and poor weather watching. Now I have really come to trust the boat's abilities. Lately I have been heaving to under reefed main alone, to limit how much forereaching I have to deal with on my restricted sailing ground. The first time I did it was to be able to change sheets easily on the jib after reefing it. Pretty hard to do if the backed sail is still up, as you all know. I was amazed at how well she held position and how stable she was in Force 6 and even briefly Force 7 winds, hove to under reefed main alone. Anyway, I would love to have input from some of you more experienced sailors about sail choices when you are heaving to on your M17s. I don't use my 85% jib; I use my 100% working jib because it is reefable and I can rig a separate downhaul for the reef, and another for the whole sail. With the jib reefed and a second reef in the main, Cloud Girl remains stable and nimble for sailing in pretty significant wind, as well. And by the way, she is remarkably dry when the spray is flying. Thanks, David

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Re: M_Boats: rigging tension
by W David Scobie 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

ok ... try this again (yahoo mail has become increasingly bad as it does 'strange' things and pages refuse to load!). i've read many times when searching old forum posts the terms 'snug but not tight' from jerry and bob. i had no idea what this meant. so ... i did my best guess and likely had the uppers too loose, lowers to tight, and the for/aft too loose. my rigging was more of a challenge as SWEET PEA's prior owner had jerry make new standing rigging and never rigged the boat. so ... nothing was dialed in! after some fiddling was able to get the mast to stay up as jerry REALLY cut the rear and fore-stays short! i feel i have dialed the boat after spending about an hour 'feeling' larry yake's CORN DOG at the MSOG san juan trip in june '09. i figured that larry sails a FAST m17 so he must have the standing rigging right! i still feel i have WAY to much rake on the mast (jerry you REALLY made the fore and aft stays a bit short). the port and starboard tension across the spreaders seems good. the fore and aft are a bit of work. the aft stay are hooked 'reversed' on the transom to gain about 1/2" of reach. still, i need to have the turnbuckle with only a few threads to get the forstay hooked to the bow (the forestay turnbuckle has just enough threads to but in cotter keys). even now, and the wire has stretched, if i didn't have the main halyard winch on the cabin top i would not be able to put enough tension forward to get the forestay to hook to the bow. i estimate after i have one-and-a-half to 1-to-3/4 feet of mast rake to the rear. i've read the rake should be about one foot. anyhow ... things will stretch over time and the boat does sail well ... and there are some wrinkles i can't get out of the main because of the rake (see the san juan photos of '09) dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Joe Murphy <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> wrote: Thanks Jerry. How much slack or better put, tension, should I have in my shrouds? Forestay & Backstay?? Joe

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racing my M23
by Jeff Packer 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

I recently raced my M23 in the 26th annual Rickey Point Sailing Club regatta on Lake Roosevelt in Washington. Racing with a variety of different boats (18 in all) I was again amazed by its windward performance. We raced 4 races on the triangle course on Saturday. With the exception of a poorly timed start on the first race (which we mostly made up for crossing the finish 3rd), in each of the next 3 races we were the first boat around the windward mark and often creating distance from other boats on the final beam reach finishing first. We sailed under the 150 genoa and full main with steady 10 to 15 knot winds. The boat consistently and noticeably pointed and beat to windward better than any other boat racing. On Sunday, we had one 8 mile race down the lake and back. Winds were stronger, about 15 to 20 knots. The first leg was downwind under 150 genoa and main (to keep things simpler we don't do spinnakers and not everyone has them). Downwind, we moved ahead of many boats and arrived at the downwind mark overlapping 2 other lead boats. As we prepared to round the mark, I contemplated putting up the working jib for the 4 mile beat to the finish as I was fairly sure we were going to be overpowered. I decided to try it with the sails we had up rather than lose time with a sail change (also, the wind often tends to slack off later in the morning which might save us having to change sails twice). Initially, we were somewhat overpowered in gusts but were able to keep the genoa sheeted in while easing the main in the gusts. For awhile we consistently had about a 25 degree heal with gusts bringing us to 30 degrees or more (too much for my liking). Again, however, we were able to point higher than other boats and soon were ahead of the pack. The wind did eventually ease to about 15 knots and we crossed the finish first about a half mile or so ahead of the second boat. Believe me, I made my share of mistakes and several times we would lose almost all hull speed on tacks that in one way or another went awry. But the boat performed better than I could have expected. It was a great weekend with great winds on both days. While we don't yet have corrected times from boat handicaps figured yet (our stats guy could not attend this weekend). I'm hopeful that we may have actually won this year. We'll see. By the way, wish I could have made the San Juan trip but life challenges set me too far back this year. Maybe next time. Jeff M-23 Clarity

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Re: M_Boats: rigging tension
by W David Scobie 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

oh the great tention question. after reading old forum posts i found many comments of 'snug but not tight'. what this means was a GREAT --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Joe Murphy <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> wrote: From: Joe Murphy <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 rigging To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 9:20 PM Thanks Jerry. How much slack or better put, tension, should I have in my shrouds? Forestay & Backstay?? Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:34 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 rigging > No, I'd stay with 1/8. One wire of 1/8 would lift up two 17's. 5/32 would just be more weight and windage. Just look for broken strands and cracked or really rusty fittings now and then. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:30 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 rigging > > >> I realize this would be off into the future, but if I were to replace the rigging on my M17 should I think of moving up to 5/32"?? >> Joe >> Seafrog M17 651 >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:49 PM >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 rigging >> >> >>> Headstay and uppers were 3/16, and lowers and backstay were 5/32. >>> >>> jerry >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bownez(a)juno.com> >>> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >>> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:49 AM >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 rigging >>> >>> >>>> Say Jerry, >>>> >>>> Do you remember the size of the standard standing rigging for the M23? Was it 5/32" all around? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Bones >>>> >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> Click here to find the perfect picture with our powerful photo search features. >>>> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTEuJENF3CE2aNij4Eu2epYN2c… >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: CornDog's Custom Companionway Doors
by Larry E Yake 14 Jul '09

14 Jul '09

Have a great trip! Looking forward to seeing your trip report. I have a loose foot on my new main. I like it. Something more to tinker with. You still have your original main? One of the old Reggie Armstrongs? I retired mine two years ago. Larry On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:54:08 GMT "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> writes: > Hey Larry, > > I believe our M17's are the same year and I have the wood bulkhead > panels as well. > I had my original main modified to be loose-footed. I'll be testing > that on my big trip coming up next week. > > Loved the SJ video...... > > Later, > > Bones > > 1976 M17 #92 > > ____________________________________________________________ > The strong, silent type. Click here for great looking bamboo > flooring! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTJs34FhrTwQNclZmtbz9gxl F3uspxQMECkp2a8l2s6YLemGCSsXTK/ > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > >

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