September 2007 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Cooking stoves and good food
by al williams 25 Sep '07

25 Sep '07

All this talk about cooking reminded me of one of the things I enjoy when its time to eat after a long day of sailing. This past Labor Day a few of us got together for a weekend cruise on the Chesapeake Bay. The second night we fired up three stoves. Two stoves cooked the pasta and one heated up the clam sauce, clams and mussels. After everything was ready plates were passed, food piled on and were topped off with cheese and ground black pepper. We also enjoyed chilled white wine. al williams _________________________________________________________________ Kick back and relax with hot games and cool activities at the Messenger Café. http://www.cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_SeptWLtagline

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Re: M_Boats: M23 Still For Sale in AZ for $5800 or offer FINI
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 25 Sep '07

25 Sep '07

List Participants: Does this 'board' have a moderator? OK..... so lets just call it the 'End of the Thread' and start a new discussion ie. talk about the insidious Quaggra mussel and how we will save the world from this damaging creature. Something different. In the interest of Peace & Love - I hereby pronounce this thread of M-Boat resale values dead and ended for the time being. No harm No foul. Doesn't that feel good now??? Self Appointed Master Moderator for this past second. I resign now. GO I am a MBoat owner and l like it. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Re: M_Boats: M23 Still For Sale in AZ for $5800 or offer
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 25 Sep '07

25 Sep '07

I agree that the book numbers on Montys are skewed from private sales...being that small trailer sailboats usually aren't brokered or financed. However, I wrote NADA a couple yrs ago asking for how they get the numbers. Values on NADA are actual selling prices reported by any new or used boat dealer, marina, broker, bank, etc who subscribes to the NADA pub. The only way any boat value in NADA may be 15 yrs old is if none had been sold or reported by a subscriber. NADA also said their free web site values are lower than their subscription pub...don't ask me why because I didn't follow that one up. Also, FreeWilly is entitled to his opinion and I personally didn't get offended at his critique...it's plain boat talk like any other stuff. I don't get why anyone gets uptight or hostile about opinions on Monty quality or values. Bottom line to me is Montys are a cult boat with limited numbers. They spend most of them time on a trailer and it results in low stress, long life and boats that show very well. It drives prices up no matter what the quality. Before anyone blasts me for whatever, I'm a long time Monty owner...since 1975-76 and still own it. I bought 100% for the design and quality was secondary. Construction issues or resale means nothing to me...never has, never will. If it breaks (and it has) I fix it. Monty ownership for me is all about getting a boat design I like. Bill P. (NOT Freewilly) ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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M23 Still For Sale in AZ for $5800 or offer
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 25 Sep '07

25 Sep '07

Free Willy, Since your post was apparently directed in my direction....here's my reply. hmmmmm.....WOW! Wasn't really expecting a tongue lashing about Monty values when I posted that there was a 23 for sale in Tucson...but I guess since one salvo has been fired I'll throw a grenade in the mix. INCOMING!!!! :-) UH, I don't have a 17 for sale so I'm not sure where that last line was directed unless it was to the group as a whole, which I guess it was. Good luck on that. Along the line of some of the other posts, a boat, any boat, Montgomerys included, are worth exactly what a buyer is willing to pay for it and a seller is willing to sell it for, at the moment in time that the two come to a consensus. Period. Those books make good kindling to get a nice fire going so you can keep warm while you hash out the deal with the current owner. Unless of course, you're trying to finance your $2000.00 M17......in which case you have a whole other set of issues. M23's are not in "The Book" 'cause not enough of them were produced. There are probably numerous reasons that not as many 23's were built as the 17's....like the company closed it's doors and it cost a lot more. I'm pretty sure the fact that You don't like them was not a consideration, but thanks for the info. But if they were in THE BOOK, and you based your offer to me on a book price.......well, I guess you'd have a long drive home with an empty trailer hitch and I'd have a good belly laugh. I would agree that "not everyone wants a Montgomery" however.....oddly enough.....it sounds as though you do. You just want someone to give you one. When you find someone that has one that doesn't want it anymore maybe you will be able to negotiate a workable price for the two of you. Until then...... All I have to do is to look back at all the pictures of the friends we made on the San Juan Cruise to justify what we have all paid for our respective boats. Everyone is smiling in every picture. I think all those folks were just fine with what they paid. Priceless. Once you find a Monty and join the rest of us, I'll be very curious to hear your viewpoint on its value. And you are correct in the fact that the M-17 is a fantastic boat. I wouldn't mind having another one. Once you get one all that bitterness will melt away and you can join us all in Monty ZEN. As for your tactic of chat room lecturing and bashing Montgomery owners and their boats on the web-site dedicated for use by Montgomery owners who love the boat (while trying to find one of those owners to sell you their boat).......well....whatever. That's kinda weird and I hardly think it's going to produce the results you are looking for, but hey, guess you have to turn over every rock. While you are out looking for Montgomery 17 for $999.00 (cause the 23's were never popular anyway)........I think I'll go out sailing. guess I now understand why your scree-name is FREE willy. No hard feelings...go find your Monty and lets go for a sail. That, after all, is what its all about! To the group: Sorry.....had to reply to that even though I know it's gonna perpetuate a discussion that no-one even feels like wasting their time to argue. I've stated my feelings and won't respond any further on this issue. Thanks Sean M23 Dauntless ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Re: M_Boats: RE: M23 Still For Sale in AZ for $5800 or offer
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 25 Sep '07

25 Sep '07

To the List, including someone who is not happy with their 'Montgomery Experience' -that would be "Bill" . Bill, If you think the boat was so inferior on varying levels and from stem (headstay attach to rudder) to stern - it looks like you learned a great deal about what you want in a boat due to your experience with your Montgomery Sailboat. That right there was worth the price of admission. Life is a learning experience. Your J-22 (I have owned one # 89) has a rudder that is technically just as 'inferior' as the M-17 rudder! I bet you sold your J-22 for a good amount. You seem to have made great strides in 'designer' names of the boats you have purchased since then - you name Colgate, Kirby and Farr. Bill, How many Colgate 26's have they built? Who constructed your Farr and Kirby ? Are they in business today?, and trust me, those boats, ALL BOATS have their idiosyncrasies, weaknesses and faults. Most are greater than the M-17s minor concerns. (M-17, M-23 designer - The great - Lyle Hess) Please allow that Your Opinions, My Opinions and those of the Buyer who pointed out all of the M-17 weaknesses are JUST OPINIONS - remember everyone has one, and they are generally worth FAR less than what you pay for them. If the buyer didn't slam your boat- he wouldn't be doing what made him feel superior in the negotiating process now would he? My response to folk like that (after having done the same myself for years) is to say "Well Mr. Bummer, it looks like you really want another kind of boat because this one is not meeting your high standards. Have you seen the Bayliner/Aquarius/Clipper for sale over at the next Marina? Maybe they will satisfy your needs and meet your high criteria. Thank You for looking at my boat - Have a GREAT DAY" Your 'Buyers' concerns are NOT FACTS! Case in point - you are discussing a small boat - approx. 1550# unladen, masthead rig- if the "poor headstay attachment" you refer to, is going to fail - the headsail/halyard is MORE THAN capable of supporting the rig. The rudder is IMHO a marvelous solution and I wouldn't be caught dead with any OTHER version of a LAME kick-up rudder. Even the NEW IMPROVED models of Kickup rudders. I will not spend time on the comments about the winches, plastic fittings and compression post - I think sir, the person needs a lesson in understanding the loads the boat is subject to while sailing. If you want something that is BOMBPROOF go buy a boat from the "recently auctioned for $85000 peanuts- previously financed by wealthy investors- World Cruiser model Sailboat Company" and try towing that thing around - or better yet, start calculating how much fresh water tankage you need to make it to Catalina Is. from San Pedro on a 'slow' day. Oh I forgot, you will have to wait awhile while they get the World Bruiser Sailing Vessel Company back up and running! I remember they used to be quality boats, I truly hope they will be all that and more. But I don't think they will build very many of them. For your grandsons sake, I hope his Sunfish wasn't built by the interim builder of the 'New Deck Sunfish'. that there, that there is a weak boat - went outta biz real quick - But then so did Alcort after many years, Chrysler etc. And now a new Sunfish costs HOW much? _http://www.teamvanguard.com/2005/base/content.asp?section=boats&dir=core&p… (http://www.teamvanguard.com/2005/base/content.asp?section=boats&dir=core&pa… &boatid=6) Wow! I hope the VALUE of my Sunfish increases because of the condition,location,demand and cost of replacement. But you know - it really doesn't matter - because I didn't buy it as an "monetary investment" I have ranted more than enuf - IF you want something that meets all your needs - BUILD IT. The people on this list are here because they have an interest in a common sport and notably a line of sailboats that have been well recvd by many people - successful run in a VERY fickle business. It would be nice if you respected the people on this list. But hey it is the INTERNET and any monkey with a typewriter.......and some pee in his cheerios............ Bill. You have a great day and may I suggest a nice sail in the morning. Gary O They will have to pry my cold dead fingers off the tiller of my M-17. PS it is NFS. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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RE: M23 Still For Sale in AZ for $5800 or offer
by Steve R. 24 Sep '07

24 Sep '07

In response to my post quoting historic interest rates from the early 1980s, I was surprised to receive the following message off list from one who claims to deal in facts... --- free_willy62(a)hotmail.com wrote: Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 08:22:52 +0800 >> "Who can direct when all pretend to know?" >> Oliver Goldsmith 1728 - 1774 Perhaps your argument would be more persuasive Willy if you cited a popular author, or if you were capable of formulating your thoughts in a consistent fashion. Perhaps your argument would be more persuasive if you mentioned which boats are better than a Montgomery, and which ones are a better value. Can you name a single boat of comparable design, which was successfully introduced by a newcomer to the market in the same time frame as the M-23? I regret that a guy beat you down on your old boat. I am willing to bet that when you next sell a boat you will be beaten down again. I suspect you have grown accustomed to being beaten down. BTW, do not bother contacting me directly. The only way I will ever hear from you is if you post to the list. steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY *********************************************************************** Few people, Jerry included, were able to sell boats when interest rates soared as high as they did in the early 1980s. Numerous firms went belly up. Jerry survived by focusing on smaller boats. Here is a chart from the Fed: Home Mortgage Rates (%): 1977, 6.83 1978, 9.06 1979, 12.67 1980, 15.26 1981, 18.87 1982, 14.85 1983, 10.79 1984, 12.04 1985, 9.93 1986, 8.33 1987, 8.21 http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h15/data/Annual/H15_MORTG_NA.txt steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY

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RE: M23 Still For Sale in AZ for $5800 or offer
by Bobbie Mayer 24 Sep '07

24 Sep '07

>Some occasional problems with the ballast/centerboard that needed >attention; but considering some of these boats are now 32 years old, >some repairs are to be expected. > >Sure, some problems may be caused by previous owners who failed to >properly bed deck fittings or let a rudder sit out in the rain all >winter but that is to be expected. > >What is amazing on these older boats is how structurally sound they >are. No cracking, no delaminations, no soft spots. > >Quality counts. > >Bob Which reminds me of a question I've been wanting to ask: my M15 is, I think, a 1985. It spent its first nine years on a trailer in my driveway in Fresno, covered with a tarp in the winter, next ten stored in my garage in Fresno, then the last three has been in Washington. Hence the question: I have it stored under a tarp. No garage. Salt air. Should I be doing anything to keep it in good shape? It saw salt water on occasion before but except for a few weeks, was never stored in salt air. It has the old centerboard but so far no problem, to my knowledge. Bobbie

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Re: M_Boats: outboard motor fuel usage
by bownez＠juno.com 24 Sep '07

24 Sep '07

Larry, Your M17 (sister ship to mine) is 30 years old but you would never know it, I've seen her and what a beauty. I wish mine was as pristine as yours. I finally did rebuild the foredeck on mine, removing all the saturated balsa core and layering in new fiberglass, and core-mat with epoxy. A painstaking, messy job, but now finished and out of the way. My M17 is ready for the next big traveling adventure! As far as gas mileage goes, I have never calculated it with my Yamaha 4Hp 4 stroke. I'll refer all to Gary Hyde's figures. As far as boat values goes, a boat is worth what the buyer will pay for it. The seller and buyer strike a deal. Story ends. Bones

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Re: M_Boats: Love my M23
by Jslubliner＠aol.com 24 Sep '07

24 Sep '07

Mark, where are you on the coast? we're on the coast at Winchester Bay in our RV. Weather is beautiful. John from Tucson ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

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Re: Cooking stove M-15 (Jim Sadler)
by John Gonzalez 24 Sep '07

24 Sep '07

Jim, I just use my camping gear -- a three burner propane Coleman -- when I overnight with one of my two kids on my M-15. I cook in the cockpit, and am always anchored when I cook. Sincerely, John M-15, 628, Bella San Diego, CA

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