September 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

M15 mainsheet traveler option
by David W. Wood 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

You know, Bill? You may have just hit on the solution there. I even have an RF-5 laying around here somewhere. I wonder what the possible downsides of that solution are, if any. Anyone care to speculate? David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163 > Hi David, > Now that I have the option (didn't even occur to me) to make the > center rope > traveler stationary, I'll be using the Ronstan RF-5 as the main > sheet cleat. > It's mounted on the boom and allows the mainsheet tackel to be removed > completely from the companionway. I believe one of the Potter group > people was the > first to use it, at least on the Potter. I added it to the P-15 I > had. It could > be installed a little fore or aft of the current block on the boom. > I did mine > about 10 inches behind the original P-15 block. I may want it > forward more if > I sat at the cabin bulkhead. It will make sence after you look at > the RF-5 and > see how it would apply as a "headknocker" main sheet release. >

1 0

Re: M_Boats: M15 mainsheet traveler option
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

In a message dated 9/12/2005 11:08:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, dwood(a)dwoodworks.com writes: I have yet to see an ideal solution. It seems like anything I do will involve some sort of compromise. Sailing Utopia... ? Hi David, Now that I have the option (didn't even occur to me) to make the center rope traveler stationary, I'll be using the Ronstan RF-5 as the main sheet cleat. It's mounted on the boom and allows the mainsheet tackel to be removed completely from the companionway. I believe one of the Potter group people was the first to use it, at least on the Potter. I added it to the P-15 I had. It could be installed a little fore or aft of the current block on the boom. I did mine about 10 inches behind the original P-15 block. I may want it forward more if I sat at the cabin bulkhead. It will make sence after you look at the RF-5 and see how it would apply as a "headknocker" main sheet release. Bill www.MSOG.funtigo.com

1 0

M15 mainsheet traveler option
by David W. Wood 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

Well, Doug... You've certainly given me a lot to consider there. I'm going sailing this afternoon, so I'll ponder the options while I drift around in today's forecast light winds. My main desire is to remove the mainsheet cleat from the companionway shelf to make it easier to get in and out of the cabin. Secondarily, I'd like to make it possible to sail the boat single-handed while sitting up against the bulkhead. And thirdly, I'd like to be able to move the boom closer to the centerline while beating upwind. But I don't want to mess up an already good design. So anything that makes it more difficult to optimize sail shape, or switch sides during a tack, or move freely about in the cockpit, or decapitates any crew I might sail with is a bad thing. I would also like to avoid installing so much hardware that my boat looks like some sort of Rube Goldberg contraption. So installing a lot of blocks and lines around the periphery of the cockpit is probably not the way I'm going to go. Keeping it simple usually works best for me. I have yet to see an ideal solution. It seems like anything I do will involve some sort of compromise. But I am eager to hear about any additional ideas anyone has. Don't worry, I won't start drilling until I am satisfied that I've arrived at the best possible solution for my boat. Or perhaps the least bad one. David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163 > David, > > Don't drill any holes yet!!! > > I have done a number of travelller/sail twist > experiments from time to time. My M15 is low end > stock as it came from the factory. > > I have added a couple of cleats outside the combing, > in line with the end of the tiller. They have been > usefull for a number of things. One of which was a > temporary installation of a traveller. > > See > http://www.arlingtonyachtclub.org/Fleets/daysailer/64travelers.htm > > for a description of several at the end of the boom. > I got enough ideas from this page to rig one that > works with the mid boom cleat that is on the M15. > > I have since removed it as too much hassle. > > I now just tie a line to any available fitting at the > end of the boom and tie it off on the windward combing > cleat when the boom is about centered. The slowly let > out the mainsheet until you get the twist you want. > It is not quick release but then I want the twist in > light winds not heavy winds so I am not to concerned > over this. It has to be released and retied for each > tack but is very effective and extremently cheap. > > The other techinque I use which is not as effective > but does help is to grab the mainsheet between the > mid boom block and the mainsheet cleat and "hook it" > over the windward jib fairlead and hold it there with > your hand after re-cleating the mainsheet. > > Experiment with these before you drill any holes. > > A couple of other thoughts - I cruise my M15 > extensively and to get the mainsheet out of the way of > the cabin entrance when not sailing I remove a jib > sheet from the jib fairlead and run the main sheet > there instead. This allows the mainsheet to be > cleated tightly and the boom stays in the middle of > the boat.

1 0

An indelicate subject
by Brian Gilbert 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

Hi all: I know this particular topic is a little gross, but I'd like to hear more about other folks' solutions to the head problem as well. I've been trying to come up with something for my boat that would be similar to a very small composting toilet. I've read a little bit of The Humanure Handbook (available online, I think) and it seems that it's possible, but needs experimentation (yech!) to see if one can make or adapt a sawdust toilet for boat use. A sawdust toilet is commonly used in no-septic cabins. It's just a 5-gal bucket. As long as deposits are covered with sawdust, peat moss, rotted leaves, or other nitrogen-rich cover it doesn't smell. I would guess they mean it doesn't smell THAT bad, as sleeping with my head two inches away from a bucket full of rotten leaves and poop has got to have some sort of smell. According to the book, if the contents are heated to 140 degrees, pathogens are killed and it's safe to bury. It seems to get almost that hot in my car when the windows are rolled up...maybe some kind of black bucket with a glass or plexi top? Still, I think I may opt for some heavy-duty plastic bags and a clandestine trip to a dumpster whenever possible. On commercial composting heads (about $1200!) there's some kind of way to divert urine into a separate container. A teaspoon of sugar added to this reportedly gets rid of odors from urine. My M17 came with with a head that really isn't much more than a glorified bucket with a toilet seat on top. I might try to modify that somehow. Has anyone else though about this a lot, or should I seek counseling? Best BG -- Brian Gilbert Marine Media M17 "Tiny Dancer" (ex "Stargazer") (423)876-9990 3404 Hartford Drive Chattanooga, TN 37415 www.sailingsmall.com on 8/19/05 12:22 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com at montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > Hi Tom, >> >> I carry a portable crapper called a boom box rather than the potti that >> came with the M15... >> We use it for extended whitewater trips on rivers >> were carrying out all waste is a requirement... > > I'd like to hear more about this (sorry if it's a bit indelicate...). > I've been considering the simple bucket for my next boat (not a Monty, > but still space-challenged and the head is in some prime real estate > right now). I was remembering back to my whitewater days, during which > I took a raft-supported trip down the Salmon River and we used 5-gallon > buckets. > > We used some sort of mixture (lime?) that we sprinkled in to the bucket > between uses and it actually wasn't too hideous. I mean, the first > person to use the bucket has it just fine, but assuming you can't > immediately jettison the contents, then what? This powder kind of ... > stabilized things since in that case we actually had to use each bucket > until it was full. Of course a smaller container would be much better > for a small boat with one or two people on it... > > So, I'm curious to know more about the boom box, and also if you use > the powder I remember and what was it, actually? I never knew. > > In the case of the river trips (in case anyone's still reading ;-), we > had to pack *everything* out, so we just used the buckets until they > were full, then put the lid on and ran a bead or two of duct tape > around the joint between lid and bucket, just for extra security. Then > we started a new bucket... > > And to think I was writing about ice cream and 20-year-old port just > yesterday :-) > > --- R.

4 3

Auto Pilot mounting
by Rick Langer 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

Doug's remote steering system is one of the best improvements that I've made to my boat and it was very simple. Before the Maine cruise I made a tiller extension that allows me to sit in the forward most seat of the cockpit. It works very well, but is completely unnecessary once I rigged Doug's remote steering system. Picture this, you a line around the entire boat and by pulling or pushing it you can steer from any spot on the boat. Have you ever tied off the tiller to go down below and had your weight shift cause the boat to steer off. With this system there's no problem, when you get your weight forward you adjust the steering for the new trim. One day I changed head sails while full main up sailing 3+ knots through a mooring area of big expensive boats ie. Hinckleys and the like, doing all the steering from the line at the bow. Doug even strapped himself to the mast, sitting just forward of it, and steered hard to the wind claiming he increased his speed a half a knot. I particularly like sitting in the companion way or standing in the well while having all the sheets right there and the steering line on both sides of the cabin roof. In this position my weight is forward, everything down below is accessible, it's very comfortable (no tired neck, I sit forward while looking forward) and I'm very protected from the elements as well as being in a more secure part of the boat. Although a small point I like being able to grab the jib and move it to see what's behind that blind spot as oppose to having to steer to leeward to see what's there. If you try this remote steering you'll like it and if everyone tries it we will probably never have a discussion of tiller extenders again. Rick Langer M15 "Bluebird" > Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 18:00:33 -0700 (PDT) > From: Doug Kelch <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: RE: M_Boats: Auto Pilot mounting > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <20050912010033.18605.qmail(a)web30205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Steve, > > I use a simple remote steering approach which lets you > steer with one hand from anywhere on the boat. If the > there is enough friction in the "system" the boat can > be balanced to steer herself in mild condtions. > > It is cheap and extemely effective. Rick used it for > the first time on our Maine cruise and thinks it is > great. > > All you need is a long line (perferably soft, with > minimal stretch - an old mainsheet?), 3 blocks with > tails and 3 places to tie them. > > The line is fastened to the tiller with the adjustable > rolling hitch, then the line runs through a block at > the side of the boat (could attach to the Genoa car if > you have one)up to the bow where the second block is > attached, then though the block at the opposist side > of the tiller as the first block an the line is again > tied of at the tiller with the adjustable rolling > hitch. > > snug up the lines and steer from whereever you want. > > I first did this to allow me to easily put up a wisker > pole while single handing - it works great. I now > steer downwind while standing in the cabin of my M15 - > it is is quite relaxing. > > Thanks > > Doug Kelch

1 0

link to "Shackled"
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

She's at http://www.funtigo.com/MSOG?b=275108&c=1789789&p=start&cr=1

1 0

New on Photo Site
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

Hi All, The Wood Boat Festival in Port Townsend, WA is over for 2005 and I've got lots of great photos, which will take a while to digest and post. However, I did put one new album together that was started some time ago. "Shackled" is a 1932 Herreshoff - 12 1/2. As part of the same album are pictures of an updated verson of the same craft. This one is made by Doughdish of Mass and features a fiberglass hull. They are both beautiful boats. Bill

1 0

M15 mainsheet traveler option
by David W. Wood 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

Thanks for your replies, Tom and Bill. Tom, you're right, of course, that having the traveler/cleat on the companionway shelf doesn't eliminate the difficulty of getting in and out of the cabin. And you're also right that I don't spend a lot of time in the cabin (though I might like to). But I do pull sails, rudder, and other gear in and out of the cabin every time I sail. So I'm hoping it'll make that a little easier, while at the same time giving me a little more upwind capability. I've considered mounting the traveler on the cockpit floor farther aft, but I'm trying to avoid that clutter (and damage to my toes!). Losing twist control is a more serious problem. I wonder if using my boom vang to better effect might help overcome that. Or perhaps angling the mainsheet, so that it attaches to the boom farther aft. Right now, on a stock M15, it is attached mid-boom, straight up from the companionway shelf. So it seems I could fairly easily attach it about 3/4 of the way back, at a point near where it is on an M17. Or would that just introduce a different set of problems? In any case, I see an awful lot of boats that don't connect the boom to the stern (including the M17), and I assume that twist control is not a killer issue with them. Bill, I've also given some thought to attaching the traveler to a stern rail similar to the Flicka design. But since I'm hoping to be able to sit up against the bulkhead while sailing (with a tiller extension, of course), that would mean a fairly long run for the mainsheet, at right about neck level for any of my crew. So that option doesn't have much appeal to me. I know, I know. I should just leave well enough alone. It's a flaw in my character. Have fun up in Port Townsend, Bill! David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

3 3

Re: M_Boats: M15 mainsheet traveler option
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

In a message dated 9/11/2005 5:53:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com writes: http://www.arlingtonyachtclub.org/Fleets/daysailer/64travelers.htm Thanks Doug for the web site. It's got lots of options to ponder. Bill

1 0

Re: M_Boats: Boat loading technique
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 12 Sep '05

12 Sep '05

In a message dated 9/11/2005 1:53:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, gmhyde1(a)mac.com writes: This sounds like an excellent idea. Do you center or remove the rudder first? Hi Gary, It's so hard sometimes to follow a thread after some time has gone by. So, to answer the question... To walk a boat from shore or in this case on a dock, remove the rudder is the best bet, however, if one could keep it centered, that would be fine too. The real key is to have the bow line longer than the stern line with the bow away from you and actually doing most of the pull on the stern line. The boat cants outward at the bow as you walk it. Bill

1 0