September 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

pendant
by Craig F. Honshell 11 Sep '05

11 Sep '05

Anyone have the M17 problem, their pendant hole all cracked, broken and gaping? Think I remember someone installing a plate ... Think I remember they even gave me the part number and/or the link ... I had it repaired once in 2001, but now it's worse than when it was first broken ... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Shenkel To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 3:11 PM Subject: RE: M_Boats: Second sail Good advice! Currently I am trying to keep the boat reasonably functional to enjoy a few day sails over the next 30 days. I have a medical procedure in early October that will keep me out of action until after the first of the year. I have read about several "keel" jobs on the site, and I bought the boat with the assumption that this was something I would have to do. The probing with the shim stock peeled off big chunks (3-4 square inch sections) of oxidized paint for the most part. As I said, after this (probing) I could stick the sheet metal shim in around most of the centerboard. Internal blisters or bulges are possible, but the boat does not have bottom paint, and there are no signs that it ever set in the water for any extended period of time. So hopefully, there will be no blisters. Year round sailing is nice, but you really got to tough it out during the hot summer months. However, it beats the heck out of "frost biting" it. Steve Shenkel _/) <>< M17 263 Arizona

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Re: M_Boats: M15 mainsheet traveler option
by Larry E Yake 08 Sep '05

08 Sep '05

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:29:45 -0700 "David W. Wood" <dwood(a)dwoodworks.com> writes: > I've been looking at Bill Lamica's photo site (thanks again for such > > a useful resource, Bill!), and there are a couple of older M17s > there > that have a mainsheet traveler arrangement remarkably close to what > > I'm thinking of doing on my M15. Fred Berthong's "Dulce" and Perry > > Bolin's "Windsong" both appear to have a traveler track tucked up > against the companionway with the mainsheet angled aft and attached > > to the boom about midway. There's one picture of Windsong's cockpit > > in particular that has a great view. > > Perhaps it would make more sense to mount the traveler track on the > > cockpit floor on my M15 just a hair aft of the companionway shelf, > > thus clearing the shelf, but keeping the track away from my big > feet. > I could put the boom attachment point aft as it is on these two M17s > > and keep a little better sail shape that way. > > I'm wondering if perhaps this was the original design of the M17. If > > so, I'd like to hear from the owners (if they lurk here) how that > arrangement works for them, especially in regard to sail shape > control. Does anyone here know if those two boats exhibit what was > > Jerry Montgomery's original design? Or are they owner's > modifications? > > David > Yes, that is the original design on the older boats. Tullamore was that way, until I replaced the original track and traveller with a Harken windward sheeting car and moved it back about 14", closer to the location on the newer boats. The problem with it right by the companionway, is when you have passengers, you have to reach past their legs to reach the mainsheet or move the traveller. I moved mine back just enough for their legs to be in front of the track, but still far enough forward that you have room between the mainsheet and tiller for moving across the cockpit. The performance in both locations has been very good, but I'm not familiar enough with the 15's fractional rig to know if it would work as well on it. I recall an e-mail from Jerry some time back where he mentions the mainsheet on the 15 also functions as a forestay tensioner when beating to windward in strong winds. If you slack the mainsheet in the gusts to spill the wind, it also slacks the forestay, causing the jib to sag and dragging you to leeward. Thus, you need to reef the main and keep the mainsheet tight. Larry

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M15 mainsheet traveler option
by David W. Wood 08 Sep '05

08 Sep '05

I've been looking at Bill Lamica's photo site (thanks again for such a useful resource, Bill!), and there are a couple of older M17s there that have a mainsheet traveler arrangement remarkably close to what I'm thinking of doing on my M15. Fred Berthong's "Dulce" and Perry Bolin's "Windsong" both appear to have a traveler track tucked up against the companionway with the mainsheet angled aft and attached to the boom about midway. There's one picture of Windsong's cockpit in particular that has a great view. Perhaps it would make more sense to mount the traveler track on the cockpit floor on my M15 just a hair aft of the companionway shelf, thus clearing the shelf, but keeping the track away from my big feet. I could put the boom attachment point aft as it is on these two M17s and keep a little better sail shape that way. I'm wondering if perhaps this was the original design of the M17. If so, I'd like to hear from the owners (if they lurk here) how that arrangement works for them, especially in regard to sail shape control. Does anyone here know if those two boats exhibit what was Jerry Montgomery's original design? Or are they owner's modifications? David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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Re: M_Boats: M15 mainsheet traveler option
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 08 Sep '05

08 Sep '05

Hi David, Some thoughts on the M-15 traveler (once I get my new M-15) 1. It seems to me one has better boom control with an adjustable traveler, especially on a jibe. With the M-15 (P-15 uses the same arrangement) I always feel I need to grab ahold of the boom while I jibe in any sort of wind, so the boom doesn't switch sides so hard. (my biggest reason for a traveler). I know there are most times alternatives to a jibe, but I'd like to add controlled jibes in 15 knot winds (or more) to the tool box of available exits. 2. Pointing issue, which may not be as critical to me as others. However, I think a mounted traveler would allow one to sheet in closer. Allowing traveler control with a windward sheeting car to gain as much speed as possible. I've talked with John Gonzales who says he loves the traveler arrangement on Bella (on the cockpit seats). He also says he's used to the traveler being in such a position from his other craft. Has anyone mounted a traveler on the floor of the cockpit on an M-15? 3. I mostly singlehand, occasionally sail with others and recently with two young ones. I'd like to free up the companionway for them to move about easier.. And as you know from our recent sailing, I like sitting in the M-15 cabin when someone else is at the helm. Feels comfortable there for me. 4. I have wondered about mounting a traveler like the Flicka uses. Usually about 1/2 way up the stern rail, without impeading the rudders functions is their traveler. I'm told that isn't going to allow one to sheet in as close. However, if one moves the windward sheeting car over, it seems like it would. Hard to say. I dont think it's been tried on the M-15. Is the stern railing called a "pushpit"? I heard that somewhere and have been wanting to use the word if it's correct. This Email comes from Port Townsend, WA. I've arrived a couple of days early (Wooden Boat Festival this weekend) to survey the area and beg a ride on someones Good Old Wooden Boat. Wonder if I can get any offers? Wish me luck. Bill www.msog.funtigo.com P.s. www.msogphotosite.com is now an MSOG domain name. I'm working on a web site worthy of the M-Boats (and others). The learning curve is much greater than I thought, so expect Funtigo to be around for a while. I've got the site software and have some of it figured out, but I'm stumbling over how to link pages, make scrolling menu's, etc. I'll get it, it only takes time. By the way, all the other good names are already taken. For sale is www.msog.com only $3850.00. Also tried... montgomerysailboats.com, and others. I like the Photo Site name anyway. It keeps the site mission dedicated to high quality downloadable photos and art work

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Re: M_Boats: Auto Pilot mounting
by Larry E Yake 08 Sep '05

08 Sep '05

I agree. Keep it simple. A good motto for more things in life than just sailing. I wouldn't install a tiller pilot for regular day sailing, or even short cruises. They are not really all that easy to engage and disengage (at least mine isn't), and you don't want to become dependent on it, but on a long solo cruise, with long passages, often motoring (ie: San Juans and Gulf Islands), there are times when being able to leave the tiller for a while to study your charts, plot your course and position, etc., can save you some hassles down the line. Of course, being able to make lunch and take care of personal issues is a benefit also. Or you can just heave to for a while to do all the above things. There is no real justification for "needing" a tiller pilot for average sailing and cruising. I haven't really used mine very much, but I will say, it made some looong days much more enjoyable and I arrived at my destination less exhausted than I would have been if I'd been chained to the tiller all day. Larry On Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:30:40 -0400 "William B. Riker" <wriker(a)mindspring.com> writes: > Steve, > > I don't know about real men, or real sailor-persons. But I know I > don't get > enough time to sail. When I'm out, I like to actually sail the boat > - not > just crew. If I just wanted to crew, I could save a lot of hassle > and cash. > > > Sure, there are times when it's nice to have someone/something do > the > steering for a few minutes. But I also try to remember the first > commandment of sailing: The smaller and more simple it is, the more > you will > use it! :-) > > Bill Riker > M15 - #184 > Storm Petrel > > -----Original Message----- > From: > montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wriker=mindspring.com@mailman.xmission.c om] > On Behalf Of Steve Shenkel > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 1:14 PM > To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' > Subject: M_Boats: Auto Pilot mounting > > I am curious about how others have mounted their auto pilots on > M17's. I > have an older Navico Tiller-pilot and at first glance the coaming is > too far > away, and the cockpit seat in too far below the tiller for any > convenient > mounting arrangement? How have others accomplished this? > > > > Or do real men (M17 sailor-persons) not require stinking > autopilots? > > > > Steve Shenkel > > Steve Shenkel > > Director of Manufacturing > > 7432 E.Tierra Buena Lane, Suite 101 > > Scottsdale, AZ 85260 > > Phone: 480 998-2333 > > Fax: 480 998-2201 > > www.appliedphotonics.com > > The Cutting Edge in Laser Technology > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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RE: M_Boats: M15 mainsheet traveler option
by Tom Smith 07 Sep '05

07 Sep '05

If I understand your proposed setup David, you will certainly lose twist control by moving the mainsheet so far forward. And with this approach aren't you still faced with the sheet location on the shelf, where you don't like it? I'm not seeing an advantage for you with the exception that you will be allowed to move the assembly aside a bit to enter and exit the interior (how much time does one spend in there, anyway?). I know the stock location can be inconvenient, but I believe from a purely mechanical perspective for sailing purposes, the mainsheet is optimally located. /)) Tom Smith & Jane VanWinkle M15/345--Chukar M17/496--Unnamed

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M15 mainsheet traveler option
by David W. Wood 07 Sep '05

07 Sep '05

Although I love my M15, I've always disliked having the mainsheet cleat on the companionway shelf. Other options, like John Gonzales's setup on "Bella" look tempting. But I'm clumsy, and I'm pretty sure I'd be bashing on my shins repeatedly on a track right across the cockpit. So I'm thinking of a similar setup, but instead with a short low-beam track mounted right on the companionway shelf, and a small 2:1 traveler kit connected straight up to the boom, and no traveler at all on the transom. This will allow the mainsheet cleat to be pushed a little out of the way while anchored or docked, and will (in theory) give me slightly better upwind performance. This will also allow room for a decent-sized bimini, which I couldn't do with the traveler mid-cockpit. So can anyone tell me the downsides of this arrangement (Jerry, Bob)? Does the traveler on the transom perform some backstay function on the M15? Is there some other reason that the boom should be connected to the transom? Will this make it harder to control sail twist? Am I going to regret doing this? If so, can one of you wise men (and women!) clue me in? Thanks. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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RE: M_Boats: Auto Pilot mounting
by Hughston, Larry 07 Sep '05

07 Sep '05

"Cruising" Position would be as good as well as "Sailing" position. These Monty are tough ! Gotta love 'em. -----Larry (in Sacramento, where we are a little too safe and little too comfortable.) -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+larry.hughston=dgs.ca.gov(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+larry.hughston=dgs.ca.gov@mailman.xmission. com] On Behalf Of Maria Jorge Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 4:43 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Auto Pilot mounting Hi Larry: I was chuckling this morning when I read your email. Seems like Rachel and I get get mixed up once in a while. I am going to shoot some photos hopefully this weekend of my autopilot installation since some members on the list are interested. As you know, "Tropical Storm" Katrina passed through South Florida recently and I had a bit of a scare when I went to check on Halcyon, my M17. Halcyon is kept in mast up dry storage. The winds had pushed her half off the trailer and she was heeled over, resting comfortably in a "sailing" position. We braced her and floated her off. We were lucky....absolutely no damage! Maria ---- Original Message ----- From: "Larry E Yake" <leyake(a)juno.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:21 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Auto Pilot mounting > Oops. It was Maria, not Rachael, that also used a coaming mount. > > On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:09:37 -0700 Larry E Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> > writes: > > I installed a Simrad 10 tiller pilot on Tullamore this spring. The > > height difference between the seat and the tiller on a 17 is pretty > > substantial. Around 13.5" as I recall. More than you can make up > > with a pedestal bracket and tiller drop bracket. Like Rachael, I > > ended up installing the coaming mount on the seat back. It's a > > rather expensive > > part, around $70, but it works well, makes a clean functional mount, > > and > > also solves the distance problem from the coaming to the tiller. > > The > > extension rod that screws into the coaming mount can be removed when > > you > > don't expect to use the tiller pilot for a while, leaving only the > > mounting plate and power plug in sight. I installed mine an inch or > > two > > closer to the transom than is recommended in the instructions to > > allow > > the cover on the small starboard hatch to be opened with the pilot > > in > > place. It doesn't seem to have affected the performance. > > > > Larry > > > > On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:14:11 -0400 "Morris, Giles" > > <giles.morris(a)unisys.com> writes: > > > > I am curious about how others have mounted their auto pilots on > > > > > M17's. > > > I > > > > have an older Navico Tiller-pilot and at first glance the > > coaming > > > is > > > too > > > far > > > > away, and the cockpit seat in too far below the tiller for any > > > convenient > > > > mounting arrangement? How have others accomplished this? > > > > > > I had a somewhat similar problem, in that the tiller was too far > > > above the coaming. It all worked out on Dolphin by raising the > > > coaming mount > > > with a pedestal bracket rather like this > > > > > > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/100 > > > 01/125525/10001/630/628/3 and by attaching a bracket below the > > > tiller, > > > somewhat like this > > > > > > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/100 > > > 01/7598/10001/630/628/3 . It works well. > > > > > > If it's just a matter of distance, you could use an extension > > rod. > > > > > > I like mine enough that after it went nuts on my last trip (it > > > misunderstood the Tack command as "Hard a starboard, and keep it > > > there > > > forever") I decided to buy another. Luckily, it restored itself > > to > > > useful life after being unpowered for a while. > > > > > > Giles Morris > > > Vancouver 25 Dolphin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Auto Pilot mounting
by Larry E Yake 07 Sep '05

07 Sep '05

Oops. It was Maria, not Rachael, that also used a coaming mount. On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:09:37 -0700 Larry E Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> writes: > I installed a Simrad 10 tiller pilot on Tullamore this spring. The > height difference between the seat and the tiller on a 17 is pretty > substantial. Around 13.5" as I recall. More than you can make up > with a > pedestal bracket and tiller drop bracket. Like Rachael, I ended up > installing the coaming mount on the seat back. It's a rather > expensive > part, around $70, but it works well, makes a clean functional mount, > and > also solves the distance problem from the coaming to the tiller. > The > extension rod that screws into the coaming mount can be removed when > you > don't expect to use the tiller pilot for a while, leaving only the > mounting plate and power plug in sight. I installed mine an inch or > two > closer to the transom than is recommended in the instructions to > allow > the cover on the small starboard hatch to be opened with the pilot > in > place. It doesn't seem to have affected the performance. > > Larry > > On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:14:11 -0400 "Morris, Giles" > <giles.morris(a)unisys.com> writes: > > > I am curious about how others have mounted their auto pilots on > > > M17's. > > I > > > have an older Navico Tiller-pilot and at first glance the > coaming > > is > > too > > far > > > away, and the cockpit seat in too far below the tiller for any > > convenient > > > mounting arrangement? How have others accomplished this? > > > > I had a somewhat similar problem, in that the tiller was too far > > above > > the coaming. It all worked out on Dolphin by raising the coaming > > mount > > with a pedestal bracket rather like this > > > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/100 > > 01/125525/10001/630/628/3 and by attaching a bracket below the > > tiller, > > somewhat like this > > > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/100 > > 01/7598/10001/630/628/3 . It works well. > > > > If it's just a matter of distance, you could use an extension > rod. > > > > I like mine enough that after it went nuts on my last trip (it > > misunderstood the Tack command as "Hard a starboard, and keep it > > there > > forever") I decided to buy another. Luckily, it restored itself > to > > useful life after being unpowered for a while. > > > > Giles Morris > > Vancouver 25 Dolphin > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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Re: M_Boats: Auto Pilot mounting
by Larry E Yake 07 Sep '05

07 Sep '05

I installed a Simrad 10 tiller pilot on Tullamore this spring. The height difference between the seat and the tiller on a 17 is pretty substantial. Around 13.5" as I recall. More than you can make up with a pedestal bracket and tiller drop bracket. Like Rachael, I ended up installing the coaming mount on the seat back. It's a rather expensive part, around $70, but it works well, makes a clean functional mount, and also solves the distance problem from the coaming to the tiller. The extension rod that screws into the coaming mount can be removed when you don't expect to use the tiller pilot for a while, leaving only the mounting plate and power plug in sight. I installed mine an inch or two closer to the transom than is recommended in the instructions to allow the cover on the small starboard hatch to be opened with the pilot in place. It doesn't seem to have affected the performance. Larry On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 14:14:11 -0400 "Morris, Giles" <giles.morris(a)unisys.com> writes: > > I am curious about how others have mounted their auto pilots on > M17's. > I > > have an older Navico Tiller-pilot and at first glance the coaming > is > too > far > > away, and the cockpit seat in too far below the tiller for any > convenient > > mounting arrangement? How have others accomplished this? > > I had a somewhat similar problem, in that the tiller was too far > above > the coaming. It all worked out on Dolphin by raising the coaming > mount > with a pedestal bracket rather like this > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/100 > 01/125525/10001/630/628/3 and by attaching a bracket below the > tiller, > somewhat like this > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/100 > 01/7598/10001/630/628/3 . It works well. > > If it's just a matter of distance, you could use an extension rod. > > I like mine enough that after it went nuts on my last trip (it > misunderstood the Tack command as "Hard a starboard, and keep it > there > forever") I decided to buy another. Luckily, it restored itself to > useful life after being unpowered for a while. > > Giles Morris > Vancouver 25 Dolphin > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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