September 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

RE: M_Boats: Re: M15 mainsheet traveler option
by Don Haas 17 Sep '05

17 Sep '05

Another option is to keep the original rope traveler , but make it adjustable. The following quote from "Performance Advances in Small boat Racing" `W.W. Norton & Co., copyright 1969. This discussion is from the chapter "Developments in the Snipe Class" ..." The most popular travler is a simple rope traveer of adjustabe lenght. This traveler is shortened in high winds, to pull the boom down but not in. It is lenghtened in moderate winds until the mainsheet is block and block at the boom to pull the boom in ( a few inches from the shear) but not down. An additional set of lines can be added to trim the boom farther inbord in very light winds." I replace my bridal wiw is longer line and mess around a little with it. Changing the length does change the location of the boom and shape of the mainsail. In light to moderate winds the friction of the through the hole is the stern held the line ok. in hight winds i sucurred it to the stearn cleat. Results for me are inconclusie at this time. The winds here on the Oregon coast are a little erratric and I havent been on the water enough this year to see if changing the enght made any difference. I brought this option up mainly to see if any others as experimented with changing the enght of the stock bridal. Don Haas M15-248 Dream Catcher > [Original Message] > From: David W. Wood <dwood(a)dwoodworks.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: 9/16/2005 4:22:52 PM > Subject: M_Boats: Re: M15 mainsheet traveler option > > Thanks Scott, > > You make some good points, all of which reinforce my current thinking > to forgo the cockpit-floor mounted traveler idea. But having the > mainsheet cleat mounted on the companionway deck still bugs me enough > to want to make a change. > > Most likely I'll go with Bill Lamica's idea of mounting a Ronstan > RF-5 on the forward part of the boom. This will mean that the > mainsheet will just drape loosely down into the companionway, which > will allow me (with a tiller extension) to sit at the bulkhead. This > setup would also leave enough space for a bimini, and the mainsheet > should still be easily reachable even on a run. > > I'd love to combine that with a stern traveler of some sort, a la > Flicka. But I haven't yet come across a good, functional track setup > that would elevate it above the tiller, and still look appropriate on > an M15. > > The search continues... > > David > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com > 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163 > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: spinnaker pictures
by Saltm17＠aol.com 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Tom, As with most things sailing...it depends. If I were racing in the spinnaker fleet I would certainly put one on my mast. It allows for much more precise triming. For recreational sailing, I've never really missed having it. Rather than trim as perfectly as possible, when I singlehand I usually over trim. That way I don't have as much worry about the sail collapsing. John Edwards Miss T M17 # 372

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Re: M15 mainsheet traveler option
by David W. Wood 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Thanks Scott, You make some good points, all of which reinforce my current thinking to forgo the cockpit-floor mounted traveler idea. But having the mainsheet cleat mounted on the companionway deck still bugs me enough to want to make a change. Most likely I'll go with Bill Lamica's idea of mounting a Ronstan RF-5 on the forward part of the boom. This will mean that the mainsheet will just drape loosely down into the companionway, which will allow me (with a tiller extension) to sit at the bulkhead. This setup would also leave enough space for a bimini, and the mainsheet should still be easily reachable even on a run. I'd love to combine that with a stern traveler of some sort, a la Flicka. But I haven't yet come across a good, functional track setup that would elevate it above the tiller, and still look appropriate on an M15. The search continues... David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)dwoodworks.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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RE: M_Boats: spinnaker pictures
by Tom Smith 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Do you think it's necessary to install a track for a movable car/ring on the mast John, or am I making this too complicated? t /)) Tom Smith & Jane VanWinkle M15/345--Chukar M17/496--Unnamed

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Re: M_Boats: spinnaker pictures
by Saltm17＠aol.com 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Tod, Yes, both sheets lead to turning blocks. The spinnaker pole has two wire bridles attached. The spinnaker topping lift is connected to one and a downhaul is connected to the other. The combination helps control the pole. The topping lift is used to increase the height of the pole - as far as is possible with the one end of the pole attached to a fixed ring on the mast. The downhaul keeps tension on the pole and helps keep it and the spinnaker from flying too high. I'll try to get some pics of the rig this weekend. John Miss T M17# 273

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FW: M_Boats: spinnaker pictures
by Howard Audsley 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Similar to a jib in that it has a tack, a clew and a head. But no hanks. It flies free. You can blow it out there or firm up the luff with the tack line. It hoists on the spinnaker halyard. It is probably a 180% to 200% sail. Very light nylon. If one had suicidal thoughts, I suppose you could fly the A-sail, genny and main all three at the same time. I'd want an experienced helmsman along for that. h On 9/16/05 8:38 AM, "Wayne Yeargain" <saltydog(a)ev1.net> wrote: > I always thought a asymmetrical was flown same as a jib, > am I wrong ? > Wayne ------ End of Forwarded Message

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RE: M_Boats: spinnaker pictures
by Tom Smith 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Good question Gil. I'm looking forward to flying a spinnaker on #496 next summer. I'd like to talk with somebody who's doing it and chat about hardware and track location and stuff like that. I've got the chute, do I have the cojones? /)) Tom Smith & Jane VanWinkle M15/345--Chukar M17/496--Unnamed

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Re: M15 mainsheet traveler option
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

David, Some considerations regarding your proposed traveler installation on M15: 1) My friend and former M15 owner, Bert Felton, installed a Harken Traveler on the cockpit sole of his former M15 (a couple of feet aft of companionway). I remember not liking the way it bisected the cockpit, or the way the sheets draped across the edge of seat/me/crew when on a broad reach/run. I have also since learned the importance of keeping crew weight forward in the M15 cockpit to reduce stern squat while underway. His setup made this less than convenient. We also sailed in tandem (two M15's) on several occasions, and my stock-sheeted boat was consistently faster. While I cannot attribute this solely to the mainsheet system, I do recall that his sail shape/trim was no better as a result of the traveler. 2) I think any incremental improvement with such a short traveler would indeed be small. 3) You would likely give up the option for a bimini while under sail (if that is a consideration). 4) I would also be concerned with drilling holes in the cored sole--especially considering the M15's propensity to ship water through the forward drain scupper. If you did decide to do this, I would strongly advise either a healthy application of penetrating epoxy, or overdrill/epoxy fill mounting method. 5) In aggregate, I have found the installation of a small boom vang/kicking strap a more useful addition for mainsail shape control. 6) I think that if I were to change my existing setup, I would go with a system like that on my Flicka--namely an aft/end-of-boom purchase to the stern rail (in the case of my Flicka, a roller car travels the stern rail top tube as traveler, and there is a cam on the lower fiddle block attached to this car). This only works well when used in tandem with the aforementioned vang. For now, I am content enough with the stock Montgomery setup, and no longer really notice the sheet or block encroachment at the companionway. Best, Scott M15#478 'bebe' PSC Flicka In a message dated 9/11/05 2:03:56 PM, m ontgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com writes: >I've been looking at Bill Lamica's photo site (thanks again for such >a useful resource, Bill!), and there are a couple of older M17s there > >that have a mainsheet traveler arrangement remarkably close to what >I'm thinking of doing on my M15. Fred Berthong's "Dulce" and Perry >Bolin's "Windsong" both appear to have a traveler track tucked up >against the companionway with the mainsheet angled aft and attached >to the boom about midway. There's one picture of Windsong's cockpit >in particular that has a great view. > >Perhaps it would make more sense to mount the traveler track on the >cockpit floor on my M15 just a hair aft of the companionway shelf, >thus clearing the shelf, but keeping the track away from my big feet. > >I could put the boom attachment point aft as it is on these two M17s >and keep a little better sail shape that way. > >I'm wondering if perhaps this was the original design of the M17. If >so, I'd like to hear from the owners (if they lurk here) how that >arrangement works for them, especially in regard to sail shape >control. Does anyone here know if those two boats exhibit what was >Jerry Montgomery's original design? Or are they owner's modifications? > >David

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Re: M_Boats: spinnaker pictures
by Saltm17＠aol.com 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Gil, It's hard to get a good pic of your boat under a spinnaker from on the boat, and I never did take pics of all the details. If you look close at the pic you'll see that the pole is suspended from a wire harnes which is attached to the spinnaker topping lift that goes out of the pic but leads to a block on the mast. There is also a wire harness that you can see just uner the lower pannel of the spinnaker. There is a line (spinnaker downhall) from the center ring of the harness that leads to the right (in the picture) and runs thru a block on the deck and back to a cleat. These lines give support to the pole and help control its height. There is just a ring on the mast that one end of the spinnaker pole fits, so height adjustment for the pole is limited. As far as angle of the pole to the mast is concerned, the ideal position occurs when the pole and the boom are inline or close to it. There are two sheets attached to the spinnaker, the windward one is visible in the pic and heads off the pic to the left. You can't see the right - leeward - sheet but it leads to a block situated on a track at the very aft end of the boat, from there it leads up to the leeward winch. Hope this helps but let me know if you have any questions. The next time I fly the spinnaker I'll take some more pics that will show the arrangement in more detail. John Edwards "Miss T" M17 # 372

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Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 31, Issue 17
by Jeffco923＠aol.com 16 Sep '05

16 Sep '05

Steve, I run the Yamaha 4 on my m17 and it does a terrific job. Hull speed is attained at about one-quarter to one-third throttle and it is fairly quiet. However being a 1 cylinder rig, it does vibrate some. The vibration is not all that noticeable until you get it up to half throttle and higher. I haven't got the documentation with me, but as I recall the weight is under 50 lbs. As far as fuel economy goes, I can't really be specific, but it must be less than 0.5gal/hr. I don't have any experience with other low power 4 strokes so can't compare...good luck

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