June 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Re: New Questions on GPS (mac related)
by Kovach, Jerry 13 Jun '05

13 Jun '05

I too have been impressed with the Raymarine RC-400 unit but have heard that the usable battery life is only 3 to 4 hours. What has been your experience in this regard? -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+jerry.kovach=neustar.biz(a)mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats-bounces+jerry.kovach=neustar.biz(a)mailman.xmission.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun Jun 12 11:30:07 2005 Subject: M_Boats: Re: New Questions on GPS (mac related) Bobbie, I too use a Mac, and ruled out the Garmin mapping units for this and other reasons. I waited forever for Garmin to support the Mac--as they said they eventually would--but that has not materialized. The Garmin GPSMAP 76 series (76S, 76C, 76CS) offer the ability to upload charts from your PC (no Mac support, alas) via Garmin BlueChart CD's (at additional cost). The disadvantages of this unit are the small screen, and the possibility that the internal memory of these machines (varies by model) might not be able to hold all of the charts for an entire region (in other words, you might have to bring a laptop and upload new charts as you go). The Garmin GPSMAP 276C has a much larger display, internal antenna, utilizes preprogrammed BlueChart Data Cards (purchased as preprogrammed, or you can purchase the blank data cards and program via BlueChart CD's and your PC--again, no Mac support), and an internal Li-Ion battery good for 5-15 hours of use before recharge. While this is an impressive unit, it is poorly suited to smaller boats lacking 12 Volt systems and/or 12V charging system. You can compare all of the Garmin units at: http://www.garmin.com/marine/products.html#handheld The Raymarine RC-400 is an interesting alternative in that it has a screen larger than the Garmin GPSMAP 76 series (though not as large as the GPSMAP 276C), can be used as either a handheld or a mountable (comes with mount), and perhaps most importantly, utilizes standard 'AA' format batteries. It comes with NiMH batteries that are rechargeable *in the unit* (built in 12v. charger), and can also use standard 'AA' alkaline batteries. It includes both a cigarette lighter cord and a hardwire cord with NMEA capability. This unit utilizes 'Navionics Gold' chart cartridges (compact flash) purchased separately. I recently purchased this Raymarine in lieu of one the Garmins above because I use a Mac (not a PC), and wanted the ability to use 'AA' batteries when on the M15 or other people's boats. When on the Flicka, I will connect to directly to my 12 volt system. While the Raymarine might not be quite as intuitive/user friendly as the Garmin units, and may lack a few of their features, it is a nice unit, and if you are looking for a stand-alone (no computer uploading) unit that also runs on 'AA' batteries, this is the only one I know. I was also told by several vendors that the Navionics cartography (as well as C-MAP) is superior to the Garmin BlueChart, though I cannot corroborate this. You can see the Raymarine RC-400 at: http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/Produ ctDetail.asp?site=1&section=2&page=774&product_id=1723 Before purchasing a mapping GPS or chart plotter, price the software/cartridges for your intended cruising areas. It is not difficult to spend in excess of $1000.00 for a GPS/Chartplotter unit and a couple of cartridges! Scott M15 #478 Flicka #392 In a message dated 6/11/05 8:32:45 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com writes: >I like what I've heard about the Garmin units except that the Blue >Chart CD is not Mac-compatible and I have a Mac. I'm also looking at >a Magellan Meridian Color, because I can get a memory chip with Puget >Sound charts as an add on, instead of a CD with one area unlocked. >Any pros, cons to Magellan? I do not intend to sail outside the >Puget Sound area but I would probably drive there and would like it >to work. How big a hassle will it be if I have to take my Cd to >someone else's PC and download my chart? > >Bobbie _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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re: New questions on GPS
by Steve R. 12 Jun '05

12 Jun '05

Bobbie, Some of the Garmin models use a removable memory chip. You can buy the Garmin Bluecharts on a chip preprogrammed from Garmin with what ever maps you desire. That may be cheaper than buying the CD version. And speaking of cheap, there is always e-Bay. You can also buy chips from third parties with your choice of maps that they program as a service to you. West Marine and others do this. I recently purchased a Garmin 238 GPS-Sounder which is a B&W unit on closeout. It has a huge screen. Rather than a map, I bought the Points of Interest CD ($50 for the US). It includes highway exit information and marine aids to navigation. I think the maps are too cluttered and slow - and expensive :). I also think you still have to have a chart for the times the GPS does not work. Like Clarence, I wanted something that would serve multiple forms of transportation. While the nomenclature may be confusing as Doug pointed out, the non-handheld models seem to display the information with a wider selection of symbols in more of a chart-like format. I checked out the amp draw of a number of models and they all seem to be comparable, and much less than those of a few years past. There is a lot of neat stuff out there. steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY

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Re: New Questions on GPS (addenda)
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 12 Jun '05

12 Jun '05

Bobbie, Two more things about the Raymarine Unit: 1) The Navionics electronic charts are available in different sizes/coverage areas. I purchased the larger (XL3) format Navionics Gold #2G913XL3 (I paid about $180.00). It covers all waters of Puget Sound, Vancouver Island, and all waters on the mainland side of BC up well beyond Port Hardy. This would probably cover anywhere in the region you are likely to go with an M-boat. Go to the following site for a map of coverage: http://www.navionics.com/Charts2.asp?ContinentID=5&RegionID=19&ChartSizeID=… lassic=0&Gold=1 Navionics Gold #US912XL3 covers all of Puget Sound all the way south to, and including, Baja California and the Sea of Cortez (but lacks BC waters support). http://www.navionics.com/Charts2.asp?ContinentID=5&RegionID=29&ChartSizeID=… lassic=0&Gold=1 2) I should add that Navionics charts are nautical charts only--they do not offer land-based topographical or street maps at this time. Some Garmin units offer land-based mapping, though that is small consolation if you are on a Mac, and can't upload them! Best, Scott

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Re: New Questions on GPS (mac related)
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 12 Jun '05

12 Jun '05

Bobbie, I too use a Mac, and ruled out the Garmin mapping units for this and other reasons. I waited forever for Garmin to support the Mac--as they said they eventually would--but that has not materialized. The Garmin GPSMAP 76 series (76S, 76C, 76CS) offer the ability to upload charts from your PC (no Mac support, alas) via Garmin BlueChart CD’s (at additional cost). The disadvantages of this unit are the small screen, and the possibility that the internal memory of these machines (varies by model) might not be able to hold all of the charts for an entire region (in other words, you might have to bring a laptop and upload new charts as you go). The Garmin GPSMAP 276C has a much larger display, internal antenna, utilizes preprogrammed BlueChart Data Cards (purchased as preprogrammed, or you can purchase the blank data cards and program via BlueChart CD’s and your PC--again, no Mac support), and an internal Li-Ion battery good for 5-15 hours of use before recharge. While this is an impressive unit, it is poorly suited to smaller boats lacking 12 Volt systems and/or 12V charging system. You can compare all of the Garmin units at: http://www.garmin.com/marine/products.html#handheld The Raymarine RC-400 is an interesting alternative in that it has a screen larger than the Garmin GPSMAP 76 series (though not as large as the GPSMAP 276C), can be used as either a handheld or a mountable (comes with mount), and perhaps most importantly, utilizes standard ‘AA’ format batteries. It comes with NiMH batteries that are rechargeable *in the unit* (built in 12v. charger), and can also use standard ‘AA’ alkaline batteries. It includes both a cigarette lighter cord and a hardwire cord with NMEA capability. This unit utilizes ‘Navionics Gold’ chart cartridges (compact flash) purchased separately. I recently purchased this Raymarine in lieu of one the Garmins above because I use a Mac (not a PC), and wanted the ability to use ‘AA’ batteries when on the M15 or other people's boats. When on the Flicka, I will connect to directly to my 12 volt system. While the Raymarine might not be quite as intuitive/user friendly as the Garmin units, and may lack a few of their features, it is a nice unit, and if you are looking for a stand-alone (no computer uploading) unit that also runs on ‘AA’ batteries, this is the only one I know. I was also told by several vendors that the Navionics cartography (as well as C-MAP) is superior to the Garmin BlueChart, though I cannot corroborate this. You can see the Raymarine RC-400 at: http://www.raymarine.com/raymarine/Produ ctDetail.asp?site=1&section=2&page=774&product_id=1723 Before purchasing a mapping GPS or chart plotter, price the software/cartridges for your intended cruising areas. It is not difficult to spend in excess of $1000.00 for a GPS/Chartplotter unit and a couple of cartridges! Scott M15 #478 Flicka #392 In a message dated 6/11/05 8:32:45 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com writes: >I like what I've heard about the Garmin units except that the Blue >Chart CD is not Mac-compatible and I have a Mac. I'm also looking at >a Magellan Meridian Color, because I can get a memory chip with Puget >Sound charts as an add on, instead of a CD with one area unlocked. >Any pros, cons to Magellan? I do not intend to sail outside the >Puget Sound area but I would probably drive there and would like it >to work. How big a hassle will it be if I have to take my Cd to >someone else's PC and download my chart? > >Bobbie

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Magellan
by B. Mayer 11 Jun '05

11 Jun '05

I guess I am the one not making myself clear. If I buy a Garmin, and buy the Blue Chart CD, I have to use someone else's PC to transfer the maps to the Garmin unit. My CD, my chart, my GPS, just not my own computer because I have a Mac. Also, I just learned from reading that when I load the charts from Blue Chart, it erases the original loaded maps, so I have to go back to the friend's computer to download those again from Garmin. That sounds like a major headache. If I buy a Magellan, I can buy the charts for Puget sound on an SD memory chip that goes directly into my GPS. (Only apparently the one I was looking at has been discontinued.) This bypasses the computer problem. This sounds like a much better bet (except for the discontinuation problem.) I just want to know if people have used the Magellan, whether there are disadvantages to it. (From what I've read, if I go color, the battery burns up faster.) Bobbie

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Magellan...
by B. Mayer 11 Jun '05

11 Jun '05

No, I don't mean mixing Magellan and Garmin stuff. I mean using Magellan instead. Bobbie

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New questions on GPS
by B. Mayer 11 Jun '05

11 Jun '05

I like what I've heard about the Garmin units except that the Blue Chart CD is not Mac-compatible and I have a Mac. I'm also looking at a Magellan Meridian Color, because I can get a memory chip with Puget Sound charts as an add on, instead of a CD with one area unlocked. Any pros, cons to Magellan? I do not intend to sail outside the Puget Sound area but I would probably drive there and would like it to work. How big a hassle will it be if I have to take my Cd to someone else's PC and download my chart? Bobbie

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RE: M_Boats: RE: Dead Ends
by RandyG 10 Jun '05

10 Jun '05

Friends, Just a short note from the Monty group here on day 6 of N.W. get together . 9 boats for week 1 in the San Juans, now 7 boats for week 2 in the Gulf Islands. Great sailing! Randy & the Monty Gang! -----Original Message----- From: "montgomery_boats-bounces+randyg=cite.nic.edu(a)mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats-bounces+randyg=cite.nic.edu(a)mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of "Tom Smith" <tsmith(a)nextit.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:48 PM To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: RE: M_Boats: RE: Dead Ends You're right Scott. That's it. Thanks. t Tom Smith & Jane VanWinkle M15/345--Chukar M17/064--Unamed -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+tsmith=nextit.com(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+tsmith=nextit.com@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Wilsometer(a)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:32 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: RE: Dead Ends Tom, I think this is what you want: Forespar Terminal Eye Strap, 3/8"x2" Forespar Part Number 301008 West Marine Model Number 111898 View at: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?store Id=100 01&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=2433 Scott _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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New owner/ M15 towing
by jim kyle 08 Jun '05

08 Jun '05

Hi to everyone- I've been sailing since the 60s and currently own a Mutineer 15 and a Ranger 20 (both now for sale) and finally saw the light and bought a 1986 M15. Sailing primarily in west central Montana lakes, possibly into Canada in the future. I picked up the M15 yesterday in Portland, Oregon, and pulled it 650 miles home yesterday. I've got a Dodge Dakota V8 pickup and stayed around 65mph everywhere it was legal. It was very windy (no tail winds) crossing Oregon and Washington and there are lots of grades in Idaho and Montana. Pulling the trailer cost me about 2mpg and I wasn't willing to push the truck hard enough to maintain 60 to 65 in the mountains. Could you have made this trip in a small SUV? Probably not in the 12 hours it took me. Would a small SUV pull the M15? Sure. Would you enjoy it or would you have to work at it fairly hard on a long trip? My experience says work. I think the issue is WHERE you plan to pull the boat with a samll SUV. Short trips-probably not a problem. Long trips across open (windy) terrain with a lot of hills-you might want to reconsider. The only other M15 I've seen in Montana was being pulled by an Outback and it seemed to be adequate. The owner did, however, talk about sailing mostly in lakes that were generally in the less than 100 mile range. Jim Kyle Seeley Lake, MT (about 75 miles south of Flathead lake) M15 no name

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Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 28, Issue 9
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 08 Jun '05

08 Jun '05

Tod/Group, Ditto Rachel's comments regarding HD sander/polishers. I had the Milwaukee she referenced, but when it finally burned out, I replaced it with a Makita #9227C 7" Sander Polisher. I like it better than the Milwaukee ergonomics-wise, and it has a 'soft-start' feature that keeps you from inadvertently showering your boat yard mates with rubbing compound (spins up slowly). I have done about five boats with the new Makita, and it has performed flawlessly. It is a variable speed (0-3000rpm) model. I rarely use it beyond 1/2 speed. The small orbitals are OK for fine car finishes, but are better suited to back massages than cutting oxidized gel coat! Straight circular polishers are better suited to gel coat use than automotive paints, as it is easier to burn through the latter. If you do use a large circular on auto paint, be very careful, and do not use too aggressive a compound. As for your DeWalt 4.5" grinder--don't even think about it. It is a fixed 10,000 RPM machine, and is great for sanding, grinding, and cutting (I know--I have and use several), but would be a nightmare for buffing/polishing (too aggressive, and with too much potential for inadvertent damage). For this reason, I doubt you will find a bonnet or pad that will fit small grinders. BTW, I use 3M 'Heavy Duty Rubbing Compound' followed by 3M 'Finesse-It,' and finally Colonite Fleet Paste Wax on most boats. I find the Colonite lasts about two years on white hulls, and about 8-12 months on dark (Northern California). While I have seen some seemingly amazing results with Penetrol, I have yet to embrace it as a panacea for oxidized hulls. There was an active thread on the Flicka Group regarding some longer term problems with Penetrol. Apparently the cumulative buildup of Penetrol is nigh impossible to remove, and tends to yellow with age. One poor soul tried all manner of chemical warfare before turning to wet sanding the entire hull to get down to virgin gel coat. I was on a boat yesterday that had one year old Penetrol, and it already looked pretty bad (dark hull). I queried the owner as to his procedure, and learned that he did not do a good job of rubbing out the hull prior to application. What he now has is a combination of chalky gel sealed with Penetrol, and the removal thereof looks messy at best. I took my fingernail and tried to scratch away some of the buildup to no avail. Since I have been conscripted to help with this project, I will report on the ultimate process. Until then, I am continuing to monitor about four boats with varying ages of (correctly applied) Penetrol before I advocate or adopt its use. Best, Scott >The closest thing I have is a Dewalt high-speed angle grinder, but I don't >see any sort of reference to the ability to put a buffing bonnet on it. > >http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=145 > >I'm sure I'll be doing a lot of serious buffing, so if it's not too much >trouble, if you could point me in the right direction I'd be grateful. > >Tod

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