June 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Blisters
by chbenneck＠juno.com 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

Hi Harvey, To answer your question, yes, there were very different quality of resins used in boat building. When I bought my Tripp-Lentsch 29 in Holland in '66, fiberglass boats were in their infancy, and nobody really knew what the stuff could do or how long it would last. The major reason I went with the Tripp-Lentsch, rather than a conventionally built wooden boat, was that the shipyard, one of the big three of Europe whose specialty was building expensive yachts (their competition was Camper & Nicholson in England and Abeking Rassmussen in Germany) had used Fokker Aircraft as a consultant on their fiberglass work. Twenty-six year later, when we sold the boat, there wasn't a blister to be seen anywhere. By comparison, I bought the big brother of the Tripp-Lentsch - a Northeast 38 - in 1985 that was built by a different Dutch shipyard at about the same time, '66. When the boat was hauled for storage, after we had sailed it around the Danish Islands, I got a phone call from the man that was going to do an Awlgrip paint job, who said the hull was pockmarked with blisters. I asked him to repair everything. So, two different builders: same time frame; one with extensive blistering, the other with absolutely none. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: Depth Sounder Transducer location
by Frederick M Berthrong 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

Jerry, I am trying ot locate a depth sounder transducer in hull. I am told they will work fine through solid fibreglass but not through any wood core. I am wanting to install it forward of the keel and as close to center as possible where the deadrise angle is low. Since the transducer works fine when held in the water along side and I can't get any sort of signal from inside (using petroleum jelly as a connecting agent) I am suspecting that there may be some sort of interference. However, I tried it in all sorts of places in hull and still it did not give a signal of any kind.) Before complaining to much to the supplier I want to make sure I know what I am talking about. Question: On the M-17, 1979 vintage (hull number 300) do you recall if there is any core material embedded in the fibreglass in that area? Or anywhere else in the hull? This would be in the first or second lap from the centerline. Thanks, Fred Berthrong M-17 #300 "Dulce" On Sun, 15 May 2005 13:50:19 -0700 "jerry" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> writes: > If I can butt in- monel is much harder than aluminum, tougher than > stainless, and promotes less electrolysis when stailess hardware is > installed on aluminum masts. I used it until sometime in the 80's, > I would > guess, when it began to get very hard to find for some reason. I > then went > to stainless. > > I'm sure that there different grades of aluminum available, but only > one is > readily available; 356 if my memory is correct. > Jerry > jerrymontgomery.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Langer" <farreach(a)optonline.net> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 9:01 AM > Subject: M_Boats: Mast Rivets > > > > Monel is probably stronger than aluminum, but not as easy to > procure. Are > > there different grades of aluminum pop rivets? The rivets holding > the > two > > fixtures that I took off my mast seemed to be harder and much > tighter than > > rivets I've cut in the past. > > > > Thanks guys, > > Rick > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 08:59:49 -0700 > > > From: Richard Lane <rqlhgl(a)ieee.org> > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast Rivets > > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > Message-ID: <4284CEF5.9050209(a)ieee.org> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > > > > > Rick Langer wrote: > > > > > > >Are the rivets used to hold fixtures to the mast aluminum or > are they > > > >something else like stainless? I know they are not magnetic > steel. > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > >Rick Langer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The originals were Monel I believe. > > > Dick > > >> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 15:44:55 -0400 > > > From: chbenneck(a)juno.com > > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mast Rivets > > > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > Message-ID: <20050513.165849.2584.2.chbenneck(a)juno.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > > > Hi Rick, > > > > > > The rivets holding the hardware on the mast are aluminum pop > rivets. > > > > > > When I rebuilt my mast I drilled all the rivets out so that I > could > > > remove the old hardware and reapply it to the new mast. > > > > > > Connie > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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Re: M_Boats: Blisters
by Harvey G Wilson 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

Hi Craig.. >>Your story at least speaks wonders for fresh water, doesn't it?<< Perhaps.... But Stargazer came to me via Colorado, Galveston and Ft. Myers....so she's tasted salt water . IIRC, the guy that I bought her from in Ft. Myers had her in the water next to his house....on a short canal to the Gulf. Harvey/ Ga

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Re: M_Boats: Depth Sounder Transducer location
by Harvey G Wilson 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

Hi Fred... Stargazer ('79 hull #294) had a transducer mounted in the area that you're thinking about. IIRC, the proper trial procedure is to place the xducer in water over the spot you want to mount it. A tube of water siliconed to the spot and the xducer placed next to the hull will work better then the petro jelly. FWIW, do not use the silicon to affix the xducer to the hull...only epoxy. Also, IIRC, if you go to www.westmarine.com and check the fishfinder/depth finder pages you may also find a tech tip on mounting xducers Harvey/ Ga

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Sailing on the Great Salt Lake
by Seawitch 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

Spring has finally come to Utah and now that I have moved here, I have begun to sail on the Great Salt Lake. Had a great sail last week end and set out today to join the GSLYC on a raft up out at one of the largest islands in the lake, Antelope Island. The day started out to be bright and sunny with good winds but listening to NOAA weather, found that there were high wind warnings up. Got out to the marina and proceeded to rig up and launch. Got down the launch ramp, and braked the truck and at that point the trailer jumped off the ball. Fortunately, the chains held. Also, fortunately, the rig did not fall off while on the freeway. Eased the trailer/boat back up the launch ramp and when back up on the flat was able to lower the trailer jack and bring it all back up and fix it securely back on the ball. Launched after that with no difficulty. Headed out and had light to slightly gusty winds for a while and then heard over the VHF that the wind line was coming in from the west and was about 20 minutes from the marina. I had already begun to get hit by the gusts which were pretty strong. At that point I decided to reef the main, unfortunately, I had only inexperienced folks on the boat with me and they couldn't hold the boat into the wind so I could reef and so I decided to just take down the sails and motor back in. It was a good decision and we made it back before the highest winds hit. I was warned that the weather could shift out there in minutes and they were right. Also advised to have VHF and to keep it on while out there. The rangers will give warnings of weather changes over the VHF. Also, the rangers advise having GPS as if you get into trouble and need assistance out on GSL, if you can give them your exact location they have an easire time finding you. That would hold true where ever you are sailing. Which to me is a good reason to have GPS. So, one important thing I learned today is that I must get the jiffy reefing system rigged. I think with that set up I might have been able to reef the main without having to depend on someone else to hold the boat into the wind. Every sail is a new learning experience! Time for a cool change! Sandra(Seawitch #617)

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Blisters
by Harvey G Wilson 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

Hi all... I've been gong thru some of the old sailing info that I'v egathered over the years and came across several articles on Blisters that I've saved...mostly from the Cape Dory forum. As I glanced thru them, I recall the horror that I felt as I walked thru a local boat storage yard, looking at bottoms that looked like they were a patterning board at a shotgun skeet range!! With great trepidation, I went to Ft Myers, Fla. to look at an M-17. Hauling it out of the water, we washed off the crud on the bottom, and saw no blisters. I hooked the trailer up to my old Aerostar, and Stargazer was mine!! That was 9 years and about 3 weeks ago. When I took her out this last time, after being in Lake Lanier for over 3 years, I again saw no blisters!! Stargazer is a 1979 model. Have anyone on the list had blisters on their boats?? Did Jerry use a material different from other builders?? Harvey/ Ga

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Re: M_Boats: Blisters
by chbenneck＠juno.com 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

Rachel, Just another comment on the workmanship at Amsterdam Shipyard G. DeVries-Lentsch, jr. No matter how far back into the T-L I got in rebuilding something, or removing the icebox and redoing the whole thing with 3 inches of insulation all around; it was all top quality materials - high quality marine plywood - and absolutely nothing but bronze wood screws in everything. The mast was keel stepped, and after 26 years of use, all the shrouds and swaged turnbuckles were in first class shape (I inspected continually for hairline cracks or any evidence of discoloration that shows that it's time for new ones) It was a high quality product built by a great shipyard, and designed by a genius. None of this later nonsense of 25 foot - sleeps 6 (without a bit of stowage space) and parties 15! The T-L slept four; had stowage for four; had wide decks (outboard shrouds) where you could carry a case of beer from the bow to the cockpit without learning the 7 1/2 degree sheeting angle ballet dance past the new and improved inboard shrouds on narrow decks, as was so common on more "modern" boats. .........and, for it's size, it was fast. I regularly beat a fellow Goose Island Cruising Club member who sailed a Pearson 365. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: GPS
by chbenneck＠juno.com 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

Hi Bobbie, I don't do heavy duty navigation any more, and if the fog gets real thick, I "think" I can still find any one of the shores of the lake where I sail. However, I find a GPS is a very nice knot meter. It give me an instant readout of sailing speed and the effects of sail / sheet tweaking. My Garmin also tells me the altitude of the lake, and when we go to Lake Champlain, I then have that altitude as well. Just sailing at sea level removes half the fun! It's a nice toy that only cost a few Boat Dollars. A friend of mine measures toy purchase costs in Martinis. It's only a two Martini tool. Had to buy it! Connie

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Winches
by Bobbie Mayer 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

Well, good, I'll go get some kind of flat nylon winch line. I do have tie downs but I like the idea of tying each side down separately. I did have the boat up and twist once when I hit a bump- it lifted off the keel rollers slightly to the side. After that I was much more careful about tying it down in back! When I took the right rear light off to check it the turn signal started working again, so at least that is cool now. I'm beginning to wish I had just gone for the new trailer! Bobbie

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Re: M_Boats: Winch line..
by Rik Sandberg 04 Jun '05

04 Jun '05

Bobbie, Can't see your setup, so I don't know if there is anything else holding your boat on the trailer of not. On our M-15, the winch line is the primary fastener at the bow. For the line on the winch, I like the nylon webbing that you can buy at West Marine, Northern Hydraulics (now Northern Tool), etc. I'm not a big fan of polypro line for anything. It's stretchy, generally not very strong and doesn't hold up well in the sun. To hold our M-15 while on the road, we use the winch line at the bow, with an extra safety chain between the bow eye and the winch stand. At the stern, we run a pair of winch straps from the trailer frame on each side, up to the aft quarter cleats. If you check into the rules of the states you plan to tow through, you will probably find that they require some kind of tie-down at the stern of the boat in addition to the attachment at the bow. When we first got our M-15 it had a stern tie-down that wrapped over the back of the whole boat. I do not like these as they can allow the boat to twist on the trailer as you travel. I stopped using this strap and began tying down each side individually with separate ratchet straps. This keeps your boat exactly where you put it and straight on the trailer. Here is a link to a pic we took of our M-15, shortly after we bought it. You can see the "wrap around" stern tie-down that the PO was using. My new ratchet straps go in essentially the same place as this strap, but only run from the trailer frame, up to the aft quarter cleats, not over the whole boat. You can also see, if you look closely, the extra safety chain between the bow eye and the winch stand at the front of the boat http://www.signsbyrik.net/rik/may2004_firstsail1_640.jpg Our ratchet straps are similar to these http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeI… You may have to copy and past this URL into your browser address window. These types of straps are available in almost any hardware, automotive, farm store, or Lowes, Menards, Home Depot, etc.. Rik To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Winch line.. I am determined to get this boat on the road... okay, next problem, the polypro winch line I had on the winch is pretty much shot. What should I replace it with? And does it matter if I do that before I tow the trailer? (I.e., does the winch line do anything to keep the boat on the trailer?) Bobbie _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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