January 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: i'm confused by the . . .
by TOMMYVAL＠aol.com 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Tod/ M boaters Im am going to redo my rudder this spring. I keep the 17 in a slip so the rudder will be painted. Do I need to do anymore than just sand her smooth or do I need to varnish before she is painted. Also any ideas on what I might use to fill in the small nicks/scratches ? The plan is to: sand her smooth fill in where needed sand again apply bottom paint Does this cover it or did I miss something? Thanks for your help Gary also Tod What did you use on your hull, she looked good in Sept at the Hess Fest

3 2

and just when y'all were . . .
by Craig F. Honshell 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

. . . hoping you wouldn't hear from me again this weekend, I have another rudder question . . . Does rudder weight affect rudder performance, and if so, why? For instance, will an ultralight rudder allow more lift? I was thinking it would be good to add more weight to my kickup blade to help keep it down, but it seems I've read that performance rudders are very light. Or is it just that EVERYTHING on a performance boat is very light?

2 2

Re: M_Boats: i'm confused by the . . .
by bownez＠juno.com 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Hi Craig and Listers. On my M17 #92, I have the three Pintle/gudgeon mahagony rudder slide lifting system. It is all stock, and works great. In the fully lifted position, the lowest portion of the rudder is still below the bottom of the keel, thus it is possible to ground the rudder while sailing or motoring. I grounded mine on Lake Pettenwell in WI years ago and needed to repair fiberglass on the transom. Using my rudder as a template, I had a duplicate rudder made of white oak, then cut it so it will pivot in between SS cheek plates. The rudder is much heavier than the stocker. I use it in unfamiliar waters dealing with shallow areas. The construction story and pics were in the last isssue of the old M-Boat newsletter that Theo was publishing before it went away. Didn't all the old newsletters get moved to the archives? Anyway, it's nice to have a rudder selection in the inventory. Think spring..... Bones ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

2 1

2005 M-15
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Hi All, Just got finished with the latest boat album. This time one I've been wanting to do, on a brand new boat. She's absolutely beautiful! Oval Ports, Dark Blue Hull and lots of cam cleats. Very nice fit & finish for a "factory" boat. Bill www.MSOG.funtigo.com

2 1

Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 23, Issue 25
by david_hill＠idg.com 24 Jan '05

24 Jan '05

Hi Tod -- Do you have a photo or two of the micro block arrangement to raise the rudder? I can't quite picture it. Thanks, David M17 "Grouper" Message: 7 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:20:34 -0500 From: <htmills(a)bright.net> Subject: RE: M_Boats: M17 Rudders To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <000f01c50178$3b91ee90$2b9ddb42@HTM031103> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Someone on the list once suggested raising the rudder with a tiny micro block inside the rudder gudgeon instead of running the line thru a hole in the rudder. So, I did that, and mounted a cam cleat on top of the transom. Wow, what a great, easy, upgrade. Highly recommended. Tod

3 2

Re: M_Boats: M17 Rudders
by Frederick M Berthrong 24 Jan '05

24 Jan '05

Re the raisable rudder, Ever since I got my M17 hull number 300 I have read and see photos of the raisable rudder. I'm not talking about the kick up rudder but the outfit that allows the rudder to slide upward to clear the ground while on the trailer. My M17 did not come with such a contraption. Is the hardware available from somewhere? Thanks. Fred Berthrong Dulce, M17 #300 On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:02:00 -0800 Larry E Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> writes: > This question is for Jerry or anyone who has experience with both the > old > style M17 rudder with the "stepped forward" leading edge below the > hull, > and the newer style "straight edge" raiseable rudder. > > I have the older style and am in the process of refinishing and > resealing > it. The seam between the main body of the rudder and the attached > leading > edge portion (with 3 - 1/2" wood dowels) had opened and was > allowing > moisture into the wood. In order to reseal it, I have removed it to > clean > the surfaces. I am wondering if this would be a good time to convert > it > to the raiseable "straight edge" type. It has been an inconvenience > a few > times not being able to raise the rudder, but it is my understanding > that > the "stepped forward" rudder was the original Lyle Hess design to > better > balance the helm. It certain is well balanced. My question is how > much > balance would I lose going to the newer design? > > Thanks, > Larry Yake > M17, #200 > Tullamore > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

7 12

RE: M_Boats: 2005 M-15
by Hughston, Larry 24 Jan '05

24 Jan '05

Thanks so much for the photos of your new M-15.....I lucky to have access to such a great group....How did I get so lucky? ----Larry hull#189 M-15, 1981 -----Original Message----- From: BILLAMICASR(a)aol.com [mailto:BILLAMICASR@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 7:40 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: 2005 M-15 Hi All, Just got finished with the latest boat album. This time one I've been wanting to do, on a brand new boat. She's absolutely beautiful! Oval Ports, Dark Blue Hull and lots of cam cleats. Very nice fit & finish for a "factory" boat. Bill www.MSOG.funtigo.com _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

1 0

Re: M_Boats: Vancouver Island
by Larry E Yake 24 Jan '05

24 Jan '05

Thanks, Tod. That is some beautiful country all right. Someday.... We'll be sailing on the other side of Vancouver Island this June when the San Juan / Gulf Island rendezvous kicks off. (June 4th) There's some great scenery there, too. Larry On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:58:51 -0500 <htmills(a)bright.net> writes: > You PNWers might enjoy this photo/chart tour of Barkley Sound on > V.I.'s > lower west coast: > > http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/trailersailor/index.cgi/read/395061 > > Really gorgeous country! > > Tod > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

1 0

aha, yes . . .
by Craig F. Honshell 24 Jan '05

24 Jan '05

. . . thanks, Tod . . . That, indeed, clears it up . . . So to reiterate, my '84 M17 #389 did not have the gudgeon-on-rudder/gudgeon-on-transom/lifting-rod arrangement that is standard on the new M17's . . . I had three pintles on the rudder and three gudgeons on the transom . . . And my pintles would lift clear of my gudgeons every time I grounded, so imagine trying to re-seat THREE pintles in THREE gudgeons on a rudder that is offering resistance because the boat is still under sail! Made for some interesting hijinx that first season . . . Sheared the top bolt on the third pintle when I grounded in Mackinac Island's harbor . . . --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: htmills(a)bright.net To: 'Craig F. Honshell' ; 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: i'm confused by the . . . A pintle is the male fitting, a gudgeon is the female. Most dinghy rudders are made using a pair of each, sometimes with pintles on the rudder, other times with them on the transom instead. M-17's are a bit unusual in that they use gudgeons on both rudder and transom with a separate pin to join them (at least that is the way Busca is made). Tod -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+htmills=bright.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Craig F. Honshell Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:21 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: i'm confused by the . . . . . . terminology . . . Isn't the gudgeon the thing mounted to the transom that receives the pin, whereas the pintle is the thing on the rudder with the pin . . . This arrangement, in some cases, being reversed? Nonetheless, the photo in this link very clearly shows a rudder arrangement my '84 M17 #389 never had . . . My piece like the one shown, that I thought was the pintle, was not open to receive the lifting rod, as with Tod's Busca . . . Mine had a solid pin . . . And I had three of these solid pins that mounted through three gudgeons (or pintles) identical to the one shown bolted to Tod's transom . . . I have never seen the standard M17 rudder lifting method up close . . . But from the pics and descripts, it makes sense how it works . . . Understand my frustration my first season sailing my 17', with the rudder lifting completely free with every grounding, and in the one case mentioned earlier, shearing a pintle (gudgeon?) bolt!!! I could see that, in an accidental grounding, the lifting mechanism would not save my transom, as I'd have to be able to anticipate the shallows and raise the rudder to avoid catastrophe . . . Of course, you can point out that charts and depth-sounders could help one avoid such a problem . . . The chart DID help in Lake Huron, where I avoided trouble in the Les Chenaux, but let down my guard in Mackinac Island's harbor . . . This past summer I sailed Ontario's remote Lake Nipigon, up above Thunder Bay, Superior . . . We could find no nautical charts for Nipigon . . . A local fisherman and bait and tackle shop owner sold a land map to us and marked out shallows with a pen . . . This worked up to a point, but on the last day, anxious to get back to the launch and motoring at 3 to 4 knots, we grounded HARD on rocks . . . I sustained hull and keel damage that has since been repaired . . . But my rudder kicked up perfectly and I sustained no damage whatsoever . . . Don't know the outcome if I'd had the lifting mechanism, with the rudder extended . . . I've gotten in trouble voicing my observations lately, so please allow me to clarify: I AM NOT ADVOCATING ON BEHALF OF A KICKUP RUDDER CONFIGURATION ON AN M17, nor am I ARGUING AGAINST THE LIFTING RUDDER ON THE M17 . . . LET ME BE ABSOLUTELY CLEAR: IF JERRY MONTGOMERY AND BOB EEG SAY A LIFTING SOLID MAHOGANY RUDDER IS SUPERIOR FROM THE STANDPOINTS OF SEAWORTHINESS, DURABILITY AND PERFORMANCE, YOU DARN WELL BETTER BELIEVE THAT LIFTING SOLID MAHOGANY RUDDERS ARE SUPERIOR FROM THE STANDPOINTS OF SEAWORTHINESS, DURABILITY AND PERFORMANCE!!!!! I'm just explaining what I had when I bought my 17', and the solution I've sought to accommodate the sail-camping and wilderness gunkholing I like to do . . . To each, ABSOLUTELY, his own . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: htmills(a)bright.net To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:33 PM Subject: M17 Rudders Maria, Here is a picture showing the block. It would have been better if I had drilled the holes in the gudgeon slightly more aft (closer to the mahogany) than I did (I probably could have avoided the chafe that this picture illustrates). I had left the rudder mounted for a week or two, not raised completely and the line chafed on the transom gudgeon. I replaced the line and am careful not to leave the rudder in a position not quite fully raised and haven't had any more chafing since. www.bright.net/~htmills/BuscaRudderChafe.jpg Tod

1 0

Re: M_Boats: Hatch Boards
by TOMMYVAL＠aol.com 24 Jan '05

24 Jan '05

Also add my name to the list for hatchboards, I would like the 3 piece setup Thanks Gary Valetti PS. Al if you do trailer over let me know when you do it, maybe I can meet you somewhere and we can hookup for the day,

1 0