January 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M17 Rudder
by Larry E Yake 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Well, as with all things regarding sailing, there apparently isn't any "best" answer to the rudder issue. Trade-offs exist with every model. In my research on the subject, I found a web page that explains in layman terms the science behind the designs and also touches on what a "balanced" rudder is. http://www.philsfoils.com/designTips.html Unfortunately, I have been unable to find out what size (total surface area) is needed for a M17. If I eliminate the forward stepped leading edge on my balanced rudder to make it raisable, I will be reducing the surface area. Could someone here on the list with easy access to their raisable rudder give me the below water line measurements? Thanks, Larry

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Re: M_Boats: Re: M17 Rudder
by bownez＠juno.com 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Hiya Larry, My M17 rudder is in my downstairs office. Here are some quick dimensions. Height: 71.75" Thickness: 1.25" Foot width: 10" Stepped leading edge width: 11.5" Width above leading edge: 9" Width top of rudder: 6.75" Height from foot to leading edge: 25" Of course, the rudder is contoured (faired) for its fin effect through the water. Hope this helps. Later, Bones ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

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Re: FW: M_Boats: what you've written . . .
by chbenneck＠juno.com 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Hi Howard, How about adding a trim tab to the trailing edge of the rudder, and play airplane........... That is how airplanes balance things out, with trim tabs on the elevators. I can't give you a trim tab size as a starting point, but I would personally start with a piece of aluminum fastened to the aft end of the rudder and extending about 1 inch behind the rudder. Length of trim tab to be effective? That's something you'd have to play with. Longer trim tab means less bending of trailing edge to achieve balance: shorter trim tab means it has to generate more power, i.e., it would require more of a bend. I would try something about 12" long with about a 5 degree bend as a starting point. By bending the trim tab - more or less - you can achieve the helm "feel" that you like. If my memory serves me correctly, the Pardeys used a trim tab like this, as have other sailors with weather helm problems. Basically, the trim tab will generate a force that takes some of the load off the rudder. Think of it as another rudder to steer the main rudder. The same principle is used for self steering wind vane rigs where the wind vane input goes to an auxiliary rudder that is fastened to the aft edge of the main rudder. The steering rudder than applies force to the main rudder to correct the course. We owners of Montgomerys, with transom hung rudders have it easy in that regard........ It is easy to play, and change. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: Hatch Boards
by gosail＠adelphia.net 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

John, I would be interested in hatch boards for my M 15. Jerry Williams ---- JazzYachts(a)aol.com wrote: > > >>>>>>>>Do you ever generate scrap 3/8 in. marine plywood of a size to make > a 3 > board hatchboard for a M-17?? > I've tried to find Luan or Teak both locally and at Port Clinton, Ohio, > but to no avail. > > I've got the lower third if I can get the rest. Be happy to pay > shipping... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > I got a good bit of correspondence like this after last week's email, and it > might make sense to ask, "Is there a critical mass of Montgomery 15 and 17 > owners who need hatch boards?" > > If so, and given accurate dimensions, CLC could do a computer-cut run of > Sapele hatch boards (drop boards? Wash boards? Is there any consensus on what > the dingdang things are called?) and ship them out at cost or a little above. > > With the economy of scale it could be done quickly and fairly cheaply. The > owners would trim to fit and varnish to taste. A "wash board kit", as it > were. > > I once asked a similar question on the Windmill Class BBS and within a few > days had orders for 20 daggerboards, which CLC did at cost. We entered them > into our secure online ordering system so people could pay for them online, > and the boards slipped out painlessly through our fulfillment machine. > > Just a thought. Cheers, > > John C. Harris > Chesapeake Light Craft > "The Best Boats You Can Build" > _http://www.clcboats.com_ (http://www.clcboats.com) > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: RE: M_Boats: M17 Rudders
by perryb＠usfamily.net 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

>I use a single line that goes thru a hole in the rudder just above the center gudgeon with a knot in the end of it and the line runs up thru a cam cleat at the top of the transom. See " Windsong" inte MSOG photo album. It works fine when I need it to raise the rudder or adjust the height at the dock. Perry Bolin " Windsong " M17 # 226 Well, that's a good point, Clarence. Perhaps the 2:1 isn't really needed. >Maybe the thing for anyone contemplating the mod is to first tie the line to >the rudder gudgeon and see if that works acceptably. Could maybe save a few >dollars. > >One thing to watch: lines have been known to pop out of cam cleats on >occasion, so when on the ramp it may be a good thing to fasten it more >securely. It would be a bummer if the rudder should drop on the ramp. > >Thanks, > >Tod > > >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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(no subject)
by Dick Straubel 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Been trying to send pictures of my M17 (Atta Baby, #259 -- Wife's name is Atta -- have an O'Day 25 up north named, Atta Girl). Sending pictures is new to me and I am finding all the ways there are to screw it up. Just want to tie together all those confusing pictures I have sent. Some are of Atta Baby in her hoist, some of her kickup rudder, and some of the Ronstan halyard swivel cam cleats I use (by the way, the halyards are 1/4 inch xbraid, not 5/16). I am learning a great deal about Montgomerys in general and rudders in particular by reading your emails. I was always confused by rudder foil physics and tended to think it was a bit of lilly gilding. I know better now. This web site is great. Thanks to those responsible. Hopefully my photos and thoughts will contribute to the knowledge pool. Looking forward to Florida Montgomery group sails. Dick Straubel Atta Baby -- #259 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

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Re: M_Boats: Montgomery Art Work...
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

In a message dated 1/24/2005 11:08:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, bobo4u(a)qwest.net writes: The problem with the picture links page is that the page has been coded incorrectly. It's not a Microsoft nor a Mac problem. Supposedly, Funtigo was responsible for the coding, so I sent them a note explaining to them how to fix the page at the request of Bill <BILLAMICASR(a)aol.com>, who is the registered owner of the page. I haven't heard anything back from them. :-( Bob Olson Hi Bob, I also Emailed them to complain. I haven't heard anything as yet either. With exception of their first Email saying they were having server problems. I think I'll let it be for a week and then get back with them if the problems still exist. Thanks again, Bill

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i'm confused by the . . .
by Rick Langer 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

Gary, I would sand it clean and coat it with epoxy (two coats at least) and then either varnish or paint it. Epoxy is the best primer and protector of wood. It is all you need to keep the water out, but it must be protected from UV deterioration, so used a high UV resistant varnish. If you prefer paint, I believe that as long as it's opaque it will provide UV protection. Be sure the end grain gets plenty of epoxy, obviously the bottom of the rudder, but also the top which will be rained on. I don't know how difficult it is to remove the rudder on an M17, but if I were to keep my boat in a slip I would store the rudder in the cabin when not in use. Keeping a boat in the water greatly increases the maintenance, mostly due to the affects of UV rays. And then there's all the stuff that grows on bottoms that are continuously under water. I have a friend who keeps his Wayfarer, fully rigged, on a trailer at the yacht club and easily lunches it whenever he wants to use it, which is normally 3 times a week. The boat is always ready to go, the bottom is always sparkling clean and he doesn't worry about the boat sinking when unattended. In addition he still maintains his "stuckness" on the same body of water. Rick Langer M15 #337 > Im am going to redo my rudder this spring. I keep the 17 in a slip so the > rudder will be painted. Do I need to do anymore than just sand her smooth or do > I need to varnish before she is painted. > > Also any ideas on what I might use to fill in the small nicks/scratches ? > The plan is to: sand her smooth > fill in where needed > sand again > apply bottom paint > > Does this cover it or did I miss something? Thanks for your help > > Gary >

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Montgomery Art Work...
by David Wood 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

I've tried Safari, Firefox, and IE (all on a Mac), and I can only get "clickable" links by using IE. But when I try to get downloadable or high-resolution versions of the artwork using IE on the Mac, I get linked right back to the home page. On my Windows machine it all seems to work just fine using IE, but my guess is that funtigo is set up as a photo site only, and you're pushing way beyond the limits of its capability with what you're trying to do here, Bill. I doubt that they're going to be willing to totally reconfigure their site for us Mac users, or the Windows users who are surfing with anything but IE. Not that us Mac users don't run into this sort of platform pig-headedness on a regular basis, but it does wear thin. Sigh. Bill Gates will surely pay for this in his next life. Probably come back as some sort of plankton or something... David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)woodatwork.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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Re: M_Boats: M17 Rudders
by Harvey G Wilson 25 Jan '05

25 Jan '05

>>One thing to watch: lines have been known to pop out of cam cleats on occasion, so when on the ramp it may be a good thing to fasten it more<< Hmmmm...Dunno if Stargazer's rudder is different, but I have a block over the hole in the rudder that I pass a line thru, then tie it off to a small horn cleat on the transom. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294

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