February 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Buoyanc Bags
by MC 21 Feb '04

21 Feb '04

In Europe buoyancy is a big safety concern, the French have many suppliers and there is one English company, But here state side we rely of getting help, instead of working for self rescue. The air bags they use in Kayaks and one class sailing designs are great but too small for a keel type sailboat.

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Re: M_Boats: My Original M17 Rudder
by Larry Yake 21 Feb '04

21 Feb '04

Shawn, If you make it to the San Juan Rendezvous you can try mine. Sorry, no picture. Larry On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:41:15 -0800 "Shawn Boles" <shawn(a)ori.org> writes: > Hi All; > > My '78 M-17 also has the straight rudder. I would like to try the > under slung rudder. > My assumption is that it is closer to a true foil (i.e., it can > serve as an underwater sail). > Who has a picture? > > cheers- > Shawn Boles > Grey Mist (M17 #276 1978) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Honshells [mailto:chonshell@ia4u.net] > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:27 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: M_Boats: My Original M17 Rudder > > > The original rudder on my '84 M17 doesn't have that configuration, > Tom. It's a straight up-and-down affair, > an enormous chunk of laminated mahogany, like the blade that Bob is > using now (see > http://www.montgomeryboats.com/images/m17-photo-b-16-500x.jpg ). > I've switched to a kick-up . . . I would > like to sail an M17 with that Hess blade, to see if there is a > difference in the feel of the helm. --Craig > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Smith, Tom" <Tom.Smith(a)itron.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:59 PM > Subject: M17 Rudder > > Jerry said Lyle Hess designed the original under-slung rudder (no, > that's not an authorized, technical > term...). And if the goal was to balance the helm, it does a fine > job. Our M17 requires just the lightest > touch to steer, and weather helm is very light. The boat loves to > sail itself... t > > Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle > Sandpoint, Idaho > M15-345, Chukar > M17-064, Unnamed > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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positive flotation
by Honshells 21 Feb '04

21 Feb '04

As a "coastal cruiser", I'm not really concerned about positive floatation for my M17 personally, but I am responding to the exchanges prompted by Mike Carpenter's questions . . . I would tend to agree with Connie that the best strategy is never to allow water below. But I also see Mike's point that some incident could puncture the hull. My teachers used to tell me, "There are no dumb questions." The following might truly be a dumb question, but I'll risk it anyway: What about watertight bulkheads for the M17? For instance, if a M17 is sailed in an area in which there is a risk that the hull could be holed by a run-in with a submerged container, whatever, could the bow, up under the v-berth, be isolated with another bulkhead forward, so that if it were punctured, the water would be contained? The bulkhead would have to be glassed directly to the hull, and not just the liner, of course, but (I haven't been on my boat since November, '03) don't the v-berth hatches open to the bare hull below? And couldn't you 'glass a decent-sized "watertight compartment" under the M17's v-berth, yet still leave room for the battery, the port-a-potty, and a few other items? And couldn't you do the same in the quarterberths: Simply 'glass-in watertight compartments, making sure they're 'glassed directly to the hull? I read British sailing magazines, and it seems Europe (yes, I know Britons do not consider themselves "Europeans") is even more obsessed with safety than the U.S., and has stricter regulations, requiring a minimum amount of positive flotation for recreational vessels. And I remember reading about a small traditionally-styled fiberglass daysailer that featured watertight bulkheads instead of foam-flotation. The builder said that he switched to watertight compartments because no matter what type of foam was used in construction, it would eventually take on water and add weight, as well as lose buoyancy. If a fiberglass daysailer builder in Britain (and I believe the boat I describe was a 17 or 18' open boat) can add watertight compartments to his little trailerables to give them certified positive flotation, perhaps an enterprising M17 owner could retrofit them?

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RE: M_Boats: My Original M17 Rudder
by Shawn Boles 21 Feb '04

21 Feb '04

Hi All; My '78 M-17 also has the straight rudder. I would like to try the under slung rudder. My assumption is that it is closer to a true foil (i.e., it can serve as an underwater sail). Who has a picture? cheers- Shawn Boles Grey Mist (M17 #276 1978) -----Original Message----- From: Honshells [mailto:chonshell@ia4u.net] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: My Original M17 Rudder The original rudder on my '84 M17 doesn't have that configuration, Tom. It's a straight up-and-down affair, an enormous chunk of laminated mahogany, like the blade that Bob is using now (see http://www.montgomeryboats.com/images/m17-photo-b-16-500x.jpg ). I've switched to a kick-up . . . I would like to sail an M17 with that Hess blade, to see if there is a difference in the feel of the helm. --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smith, Tom" <Tom.Smith(a)itron.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:59 PM Subject: M17 Rudder Jerry said Lyle Hess designed the original under-slung rudder (no, that's not an authorized, technical term...). And if the goal was to balance the helm, it does a fine job. Our M17 requires just the lightest touch to steer, and weather helm is very light. The boat loves to sail itself... t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar M17-064, Unnamed _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: makes perfect sense . . .
by Michael L Bowden 21 Feb '04

21 Feb '04

Hi Guys, My rudder is straight on my '76 M17. It does slide up on the P+G's. I fabricated my kick-up rudder by cloning the original. I then cut it so she would fold and made SS cheek plates. My kick up is a bit beefier than the stock mahagony one, I had it made from white oak. Theo did an article on it in the last Monty newsletter years ago. I'm presently on vacation in the Keys, sure wish I had an M boat here with me. (It wouldn't quite fit in the overhead on the 757.) Later, Bones ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

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Re: M_Boats: Styrofoam in V berth storage
by chbenneck＠juno.com 20 Feb '04

20 Feb '04

Hi George, My M15 just has two Styrofoam logs in the front compartment, leaving lots of good, usable storage space. I keep my heavy anchor, chain, and rode there; as well as my battery to run my GPS / CD player. Putting water up front to trim the ship is an excellent idea. Some foam may be nice to have (but in over 30 years of sailing I've never gotten water inside my vessels) so I'd rather use the space for storage (water, wine, beer and food) than flotation. Remember the first rule of sailing is: Keep the water on the outside of the boat by having sail locker lids that are gasketed and can be locked closed; and hatch boards that will keep out 95% of the water in the event of a severe knockdown. If you do that, then boats generally stay afloat, unless rammed by a submarine; hit by a torpedo, run onto a mine, or have the misfortune to encounter the dreaded Krakken in the middle of the ocean. Happy sailing Connie M15 #400 LEPPO

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RE: M_Boats: 12-28 fasteners?
by Smith, Tom 20 Feb '04

20 Feb '04

Hey Jerry. I'm doing some work on the M17 rudder. Can you remember what the gap between where the rudder cuts forward under the skeg and the skeg itself should measure? I can see where the wider that gap is, the more turbulance will be created. This rudder's been damaged and I don't know how everything was set up originally, but it's about two inches right now... Thanks. t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar M17-064, Unnamed > > __

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RE: M_Boats: M17 Rudder
by Smith, Tom 20 Feb '04

20 Feb '04

Jerry said Lyle Hess designed the original under-slung rudder (no, that's not an authorized, technical term...). And if the goal was to balance the helm, it does a fine job. Our M17 requires just the lightest touch to steer, and weather helm is very light. The boat loves to sail itself... t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar M17-064, Unnamed

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Re: M_Boats: gps question
by Grove777＠aol.com 20 Feb '04

20 Feb '04

any onehave a used gps for sale???

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gps question
by Harvey Wilson 19 Feb '04

19 Feb '04

>>am considering buying a gps would like advise on best for price for coastal waters << depends on your needs, wants and expectations. A friend just uses an old Garmin 12XL with his charts. Sails the Bahamas for months on end. I've also sold the big screen, pricey Garmins to folks who liked the image, but used it as a status symbol. You need to be more specific...like, do you want just a GPS, or a chartplotter model?? Color or B&W?? Harvey/Ga M-17 Stargazer #294

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