September 2003 - KLF - mailman.xmission.com

RE: [KLF] Bill Drummond enjoys hamster enema, on mars
by Phil Smith 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

ha ha thats pretty funny, or it would be if it werent so scary! So you know the score cos you've got a TV and know people in the army. jesus christ those are the last people who'd know the truth! > >Sigh... Yes, but this is a "KLF Mailing List", not CNN. I've got cable, >I can choose from about 20 different news channels that will tell me >about the state of affairs in the world. I have very close friends in >the U.S. Military, the British Army, the Royal Australian Air Force who >will also tell me about how things are going (from a slightly more >realistic perspective oftenly). I can also wander down the road and >choose from about 10 major newspapers, each with their own political >slant on things. > >I did not subscribe to "The KLF Mailing List" because I wanted to read >someone's political propaganda, nor do I want to have to wade through it >just to find KLF-related items. I think you should be able to judge >from the negative reception your posts have received that no-one else >wants to do this either. > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >KLF mailing list >KLF(a)mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

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re: missing the point
by xen on 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

paul, where does one draw the line really. at what point do you require "artists" to censor themselves and become merely "entertainers"? where do these consumer "rights" come from? who dictates what is expected or unexpected in a public performance situation? is the content of a performance situation the province of the artist or the spectator? i tend towards the belief that it is the perogative of the artist to express themselves however they wish. after all, its they who are putting themselves out there. every thing they do on stage is a risk far greater than the money i paid and after all didnt i pay to watch them to express themselves while i stood by (or maybe danced) in the shadows. i myself would be very disappointed if the cultural workers i admire reduced themselves to bland singing and dancing marionettes in order to avoid offending the passive consumer with thier freedom of expression. surprise me. give me some passion, some spirit, some commitment, some "artistry", even if sometimes i dont agree with it, rather than "entertainment" by focus group. at this very moment i'm listening to johnny cash, now i dont agree with the mans religious conviction but it would of been a sad sorry thing if he'd not recorded, released or performed his gospel material because he risked offending me. bringing this back to the jamms/klf. looking at the ouvre chronologically. from the very first releases back in 1987, the content in the lyrics was overtly political. listen again to "all you need is love" and tell me thats not a political song. xe

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Re: [KLF] Re: "missing the point"
by TheMgnt＠aol.com 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

> you want discussion, Dan? there's 6 things for you to discuss right there Are you really that daft that you couldn't understand his point? That you took the term "Take" literally instead of figuratively? Or, as usual, are you just trolling for a fight? He was referring to paying to go to a Dixie Chicks concert then hearing the lead singer stand there and make commentary on the president. He's talking about going to a McCartney concert and being "treated" to a short film of animals getting tortured when really all you wanted was to hear him sing "I Saw Her Standing There." If you buy a Zappa album you can fully expect songs bashing everything from religion to politics. But, usually you buy an artist's records because you like their music. Surely you like the KLF for tracks other than America No More, K Cera Cera, and All You Need is Love, right?. You like their style. There's no political message behind What Time Is Love or Last Train. You are entertained by the music so you buy it. And you don't necessarily have to agree with an artists political viewpoint to like the music. But when they cram it down your throat unexpectedly (like at a concert) you have the right to be annoyed. -paul

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Riot At Level 1
by Martin Bradbury 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

The point is, as always will be, indie rock elitism doesnt work as well as populism. Every punk/alt band in the world could hold a Warrior-type gathering and it wouldnt make any difference. The only way anything will change is if popular well known artists come across with strong messages, if Kylie Minoge had the politics of Martin Luther King then that would be a shit load more helpful than The Fall having that message. This is known as entryism, using popular forms of art as a trojan horse to inject subversive ideas into the mainstream. To achieve change we must get this message to the largest number of people, and to do this mainstream artists must have productive messages. You could say that this doesnt always work, K Cera Cera didnt incite world peace but there is more chance of the KLF making change than The Levellers. reVOLUTION + PoPULIsm = chaNGE

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Re: "missing the point"
by our.webstuff＠verizon.net 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

> I never thought that my post would encourage vicious personal > attacks. Am I missing the point of a discussion list? > Dan Hutchins what "vicious personal attacks" are you referring to exactly? maybe, in your mind, accountability isn't part of a discussion? instead of whining about "attacks", why don't you just answer the questions posed: 1. do entertainers REALLY "take" your money from you? 2. do you give money to entertainers whose views you can't stand to hear? 3. if so, WHY? 4. do you really not recognize that many people feel the role of the artist IS to speak out? 5. have you ever gotten fired from your job for speaking out? 6. why would you want to work for people that would fire you for stating your opinions? you want discussion, Dan? there's 6 things for you to discuss right there

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RE: [KLF] [OT] RE: Blurb& Bill Hicks and 911 (again)
by Simon House 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

yes mate check sane man out. Also that alice in wonderland book is great stuff. I've not read it all yet but as always his stuff is very intresting. Its wierd even the bloke in the book shop was 'oh i agree with everything he says, but he's a right nutter', why? people still dont seem to get where icke is coming from. I've mentioned him before on here and you get stick about being anti sematic! I mean im a right cynical bastard but whats that all about, the offer still stands that theres a cash reward for anyone who finds any anti sematic stuff in any of his books. He's actually being sued for a million by Richard Warman for calling him a fascist or some shit. He seems to think that he cannot be jewish AND a fascist but as the Isrealy occupation clearly shows we all have that unfortunate ability if we stoop low enough to let it take over us. Wanting to ban free speech and ban books for some personal problem seems pretty right wing to me. The instances you mention from the book about why nothing happened still havent been explained by the pigs in any better way than 'it took us by surprise we didnt expect this to happen' etc etc but this is complete lies. Previously when planes have lost contact military jets were straight up there. I have also seen a map of the flight path of the hijacked planes in relation to where top military bases are in the USA and the planes went over some major areas where they could have intercepted easily. There is also the thing about prior knowledge. Everyone else in the world seemed to know about it apart from the west. They were warned by the isreali's the russians and i think the french. Many people knew, i saw a muslim calender from a year or two before it happened and one of the pages has a burning jet flying towards new york. Anyone who thinks there should be a war going on right now really is a fool and i'd urge em to look into this stuff. What we do about it is another matter and more important really cos im sure 1/8 th of the west must know something is seriously wrong. We have a much more freedom and acccess to alternative information than the rest of the world so its our job really to sort it out. Oddly enough though I was watching a program about Palestine and the kids there seem more clued up on world events than 30 year old i know are. After constant attacks from (U.S backed) Isreal and seeing his brothers and freinds brutally die this one 7 year old was praying for an avenging angel to come and wipe out everything with its giant wings and avenge the oppression of his people. I suppose he kind of got what he prayed for with bin laden and im sure most of us would of prayed for the same thing if being him. Its clear that unless the west starts living more self sufficiantly and stops fucking up other countries by dictating trade laws and even covertly replacing elected leaders, we will constantly targets for attack and the Bush and Blairs of the world know this and dont give a shit, its more money for war aint it cos half of us are going 'revenge' but all it is is revenge on revenge! What we can do is lobby companies like Levis, Gucci, Puma, Nike, Gap and the like (check out www.cleanclothes.org) and make them act responsibly and fairly to their employees and threaten to stop buying their products. Lobby politicians (whos email and contact details are easily accessable on the web, surely there must be 1 or 2 who are at least 1/2 decent people) and tell them the score. 1 person does it and they think its bullshit but if hundreds do it they start to notice more and more. And most importantly spread the information to as many people as possible through however you can, work together and try and help each other out by trading and using our skills for positivity. People need to turn up to the marches and demos, they will just get bigger and bigger and put as many dents in the pockets of these fuckers by vandalism and sabotage, then their competetors (such as locally owned businesses) will prosper. Everything we know and do needs thinking about we cant afford to carry on living like we all do or the world will kill itself, or we will be killed. well thats what i reckon anyhow! > >Bill Hicks was and is still a great visionary. To take some of the >conspiracy theories and bring it to a wider audience wrapped in a wicked >sense of humour was unique. He tackled subjects no other person ever does >outside the pub or living room. I wish he were around today. I've got the >relentless tape and Rant In E-minor CD well worth checking. I may have a >hunt about for Sane now you've mentioned it. > >The debate about 911 has been most interesting. It started off flame-like >and contentious but this week's posts have turned it into a much more >constructive debate. Its good to see a bit of passion. I am currently >reading 'ALice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster' by David >Icke. Very interesting as lots of it refers to the story we all heard >trumpeted in the media (the amazing discovery of the passport in a New York >street etc) with a very thorough trawl through the stuff they didn't tell >us >(like how come the most sophosticated surveillance centre in the world >www.cheyennemountain.af.mil failed to track 4 rogue planes over some of the >most protected areas of the USA). Why did no F-16's which can be in the sky >in 2 minutes from Andrews AFB fail to scramble over Washington when they >knew what had happened at WTC and that another plane was missing? read it >and wonder, and hopefully question some more. > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >This e-mail message and any attachment(s) are CONFIDENTIAL >and may contain legally privileged information. If you are >not the intended recipient you should not read, copy, >distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in >this e-mail or any attachment(s). >Please also e-mail, telephone or fax us immediately and >delete the message and any attachment(s) from your system. >E-mail may be susceptible to data corruption, interception >and unauthorised amendment, and we do not accept liability >for any such corruption, interception or amendment or the >consequences thereof. >Please note that any views expressed in this email may be >those of the originator and do not necessarily reflect >those of this organisation. >----------------------------------------------------------- > > > >____________________________________________ >This OUTBOUND message from Frontline Limited >has been checked for all known viruses by >the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service. > >_______________________________________________ >KLF mailing list >KLF(a)mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool emoticons - download MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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RE: [KLF] [OT] RE: Blurb& Bill Hicks and 911 (again)
by James Parker 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

Bill Hicks was and is still a great visionary. To take some of the conspiracy theories and bring it to a wider audience wrapped in a wicked sense of humour was unique. He tackled subjects no other person ever does outside the pub or living room. I wish he were around today. I've got the relentless tape and Rant In E-minor CD well worth checking. I may have a hunt about for Sane now you've mentioned it. The debate about 911 has been most interesting. It started off flame-like and contentious but this week's posts have turned it into a much more constructive debate. Its good to see a bit of passion. I am currently reading 'ALice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster' by David Icke. Very interesting as lots of it refers to the story we all heard trumpeted in the media (the amazing discovery of the passport in a New York street etc) with a very thorough trawl through the stuff they didn't tell us (like how come the most sophosticated surveillance centre in the world www.cheyennemountain.af.mil failed to track 4 rogue planes over some of the most protected areas of the USA). Why did no F-16's which can be in the sky in 2 minutes from Andrews AFB fail to scramble over Washington when they knew what had happened at WTC and that another plane was missing? read it and wonder, and hopefully question some more. ------------------------------------------------------------ This e-mail message and any attachment(s) are CONFIDENTIAL and may contain legally privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you should not read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this e-mail or any attachment(s). Please also e-mail, telephone or fax us immediately and delete the message and any attachment(s) from your system. E-mail may be susceptible to data corruption, interception and unauthorised amendment, and we do not accept liability for any such corruption, interception or amendment or the consequences thereof. Please note that any views expressed in this email may be those of the originator and do not necessarily reflect those of this organisation. ----------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________ This OUTBOUND message from Frontline Limited has been checked for all known viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Scanning Service.

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Re: [KLF] RE: Blurb
by Phil Smith 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

Blur are using their established popularity to push a political message. thats pretty clear and good for them for doing it. Its probably the only thing thats ever made me like them. Apart from that tune 'the end' which was 'quite nice'. Its really good that some bands who have fans of all walks of life, use their platform to try and make the word a better place. Its a shame all the famous people dont do this. Madonna for example, what the fuck is she doing on those GAP adverts? Aint some people rich enough already? I mean like why dont david beckham come out and tell loads of kids not to buy Adidas or Nike trainers, or to lobby the makers and demand better working conditions and wages in the sweat shops where they are made. He doesnt need the cash so why does he give a shit if anyones offended? It must be 1 of 2 things with these dicks. They are either ignorant and just evil. simple as that. So good on blur and blacksmoke and massive attack and chris eubank and any other celebrity for taking their fingers out of their asses. I does make me wonder why only now they are saying stuff, i mean its not like the world was really nice 5 years ago is it? Maybe they are going for the 'political dollar' or is that a bit synical? Notice though how them doing that gets much less headlines than 'damon vs ugly bloke in oasis'. fucking stupid eh but someones buying these papers. Im well surprised you dont like bill hicks, he is the funniest comedian i've ever heard. I suppose he is abit extreme for some people going on about Jimi Hendrix cutting Debbie Gibson in half with his machine gun guitar cock or whatever. You gotta be careful though cos loads of his tapes has him telling the same jokes. 'Sane Man' is the best one i've seen, the bloke is nasty but he tells it like it is and you cant deny that. I think at one point before his shows he was screening some rare cam corder footage from Waco showing the ATF using tanks on the compound where all those people were murdered. Joe Rogan is also in the same vien and is well funny, he does this thing about Hugh Heffner and he just rips it out of the old fart, a bit like Dennis Leary but less of a total bill hicks rip off. flibididibididob > >Umm, wait a second. So you're saying that Blur are just using their >established popularity to push a political message? > >I don't know whether I agree with this or not, but oh well. > >Ugh. I also can't stand Bill Hicks (or anyone whose on the extreme left >for that matter [or extreme right too]) > > >On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 12:27:30PM +0100, Martin Bradbury wrote: > > Its more effective though, Blur having a political > > slant (albeit a politically correct one) for 3 > > reasons: > > > > A) More people have heard of Blur than some > > body like Discharge so therefore the message > > is heard by more people. > > B) Blur arent a relentless political band. The > > majority of their songs say nothing, and there > > fore the message sticks out more. The problem > > with a band like Rage Against The Machine is > > that every song is political, too much of it > > in a preachy way doesnt work. Even the > > greatest comedian of our time, Bill Hicks, used > > dick jokes to give people a bit of variety, a spoon > > full of sugar helps the medicine go down. > > C) They are releasing singles with political > > messages or videos. More people will hear them > > because of the radio or MTV. If all of the political > > stuff is only on the album, only your fans will > > hear it. Preaching to the converted. > > > _______________________________________________ > > KLF mailing list > > KLF(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf > > >-- > . \ ` ' / . >._` __^__ '_. Loki Ambridous von Esling > [()=()] RELST8 - http://www.relst8.net > /_____\ > Justified > > >_______________________________________________ >KLF mailing list >KLF(a)mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband

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Re: [KLF] Re: No Its Political Fucking
by Phil Smith 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

since when has will young been entertaining? was there a remix by Jimmy Cauty i didnt know about or something? > >Hear hear! > >Will Young is entertainment, real music should be artistic expression. > >Fuck dance, let's art. > > >-- >"Surrealism aims at the total transformation > of the mind and all that resembles it" > - Breton > >_______________________________________________ >KLF mailing list >KLF(a)mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/klf _________________________________________________________________ On the move? Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile

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RE: Blur
by Martin Bradbury 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

Its more effective though, Blur having a political slant (albeit a politically correct one) for 3 reasons: A) More people have heard of Blur than some body like Discharge so therefore the message is heard by more people. B) Blur arent a relentless political band. The majority of their songs say nothing, and there fore the message sticks out more. The problem with a band like Rage Against The Machine is that every song is political, too much of it in a preachy way doesnt work. Even the greatest comedian of our time, Bill Hicks, used dick jokes to give people a bit of variety, a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down. C) They are releasing singles with political messages or videos. More people will hear them because of the radio or MTV. If all of the political stuff is only on the album, only your fans will hear it. Preaching to the converted.

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