- montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

For Sale: 1976 M17
by bownez＠juno.com 01 Jun '18

01 Jun '18

My M17 of 20 years and fabulous fine times..... https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/d/1976-montgomery-17-sailboat/66… Continue to downsize. Pass the word. Michael "Bones" Bowden Mpls ____________________________________________________________ Do This Before Bed Tonight To Burn Belly Flab All Night Long Wise Med http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5b1058fa49bb58f97208st02vuc

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Re: M_Boats: 1. The Tender Montgomery 12 (Thomas Howe)
by Dan Farrell 29 May '18

29 May '18

I've had a bit more of a chance to sail the 7.11 by now, and I've had a blast. Haven't gone over yet, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time. She's not as tender as I first thought, once she's moving and the centerboard is working its magic. I had a blast. And though she's a "heavy" 90 pounds, I find I can move her around by myself and fit her in the back of the pickup. Another great Lyle Hess design! Dan Farrell M17 #301 Jared Prindle <gojopo(a)gmail.com> wrote: >That’s interesting…and maybe in a couple years I’ll feel the same way. I’ve owned an M12 (#3) for a while now and probably have put more hours sailing on it than any other boat I’ve ever owned. I’ve never tipped it before but I do agree she’s tender. But she’s tender in just the right way that you want a light narrow boat to be. I love the M12 and I’d say my only tiny bit that I don’t love is the fact that you’ll need to sit on the gunnel when the wind pipes up a bit. While there’s nothing wrong with this for an hour or so, longer sittings aren’t the most comfortable. But the positives are huge. Besides great looks, the M12 taught me how to sail so much better. She’s so responsive that small tweaks in sail handling are instantly noticeable. I’ve raced against several other similar sized older boats and have done quite well. I think this boat is a great teacher and yes…keep a hand on the main sheet at all times is the wind is anywhere around where you need to sit up high. Also, this boat picks up and skims the water with just the littlest of wind. I always cruise in and out of every slip and there’s honest to god stoke and jealousy from so many slip sailors who watch me cruise by. >I have an M17 now and I really can’t believe how stable that boat feels. It’s a whole new ball game and it feels as if I could just fall asleep at the helm and wake up two hours later and all would be fine. In fact, last weekend when we took the M17 out, my wife and I were wondering if the M12 could beat it. The M17 feels sluggish compared to the M12…Jerry…don’t kill me. But really the feeling is due to the ballast/no ballast and being on a smaller boat always feels faster. >Anyway…keep messing with it. Learn to shift your weight on the tacks…keep hold of the mainsheet…find the puffs before the puffs find you. You should love it. >jP > >> On May 25, 2018, at 11:00 AM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: >> >> The Tender Montgomery 12 (Thomas Howe) >

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Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat
by jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org 28 May '18

28 May '18

I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable. I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything. From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck. Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached? Thanks, Erik Erik Stavrand stavrand(a)me.com If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough. On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off! -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org Subject: Rigging for my boat Hi Jerry, I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? Thanks in advance for your input! Erik Erik Stavrand 941-661-9609

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M17 in the midwest
by bownez＠juno.com 28 May '18

28 May '18

Hello Listers, Anyone looking to purchase an M17 in the Mpls, Mn or surrounding area? Please contact me off list if interested. Thanks bownez(a)juno.com ____________________________________________________________ Doctor Warns: Stop Eating This Vegetable Immediately Gundry MD http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5b0bf6658697776652cf8st03vuc

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Re: M_Boats: 1. The Tender Montgomery 12 (Thomas Howe)
by Jared Prindle 25 May '18

25 May '18

That’s interesting…and maybe in a couple years I’ll feel the same way. I’ve owned an M12 (#3) for a while now and probably have put more hours sailing on it than any other boat I’ve ever owned. I’ve never tipped it before but I do agree she’s tender. But she’s tender in just the right way that you want a light narrow boat to be. I love the M12 and I’d say my only tiny bit that I don’t love is the fact that you’ll need to sit on the gunnel when the wind pipes up a bit. While there’s nothing wrong with this for an hour or so, longer sittings aren’t the most comfortable. But the positives are huge. Besides great looks, the M12 taught me how to sail so much better. She’s so responsive that small tweaks in sail handling are instantly noticeable. I’ve raced against several other similar sized older boats and have done quite well. I think this boat is a great teacher and yes…keep a hand on the main sheet at all times is the wind is anywhere around where you need to sit up high. Also, this boat picks up and skims the water with just the littlest of wind. I always cruise in and out of every slip and there’s honest to god stoke and jealousy from so many slip sailors who watch me cruise by. I have an M17 now and I really can’t believe how stable that boat feels. It’s a whole new ball game and it feels as if I could just fall asleep at the helm and wake up two hours later and all would be fine. In fact, last weekend when we took the M17 out, my wife and I were wondering if the M12 could beat it. The M17 feels sluggish compared to the M12…Jerry…don’t kill me. But really the feeling is due to the ballast/no ballast and being on a smaller boat always feels faster. Anyway…keep messing with it. Learn to shift your weight on the tacks…keep hold of the mainsheet…find the puffs before the puffs find you. You should love it. jP > On May 25, 2018, at 11:00 AM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > > The Tender Montgomery 12 (Thomas Howe)

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Re: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12
by Dan Farrell 25 May '18

25 May '18

I have to ask Thomas, being genuinely curious : have you much experience with unballasted sailboats? I bought an M 7 11 recently - thought it might make a good tender some day. Tender indeed! Being used to a little ballast below the water line, I almost flipped her at the dock the first time I took her out. But thinking back on the last time I was on an unballasted boat ( a Capri 14) I did the same thing , scraped up my knee and ended up half soaked. And before that, the 420s from a sailing class went over pretty easy as well. Maybe it's just not what we're used to? Once we got in the water, the wind was so light it was more or less imperceptible, but the little thing ghosted along well enough to get my hopes up that she'll sail all right. How did the 12 sail? I guess I should update my email signature! Dan Farrell M17 #301 M7.11 Bill Tosh <billt(a)eastex.net> wrote: >MY ! > >-----Original Message----- >From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Howe >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2018 5:08 PM >To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >Cc: 'Arnold Feinberg'; Brian Denney >Subject: M_Boats: The Tender Montgomery 12 > >A couple of weeks ago I bought a M-12 from our yacht club, it had been neglected and I thought that it would make a great little knockabout. > >Cleaned it all up, whipped all the lines, ran new running rigging where needed, rigged it in my driveway, tried to connect with the sailmaker that made the crisp new headsail, to no avail, and covered it back up. Yesterday, the wind was kind, 12-15 mph, and the sun was out. What a perfect day for a maiden sail, I thinks to myself. SO out to the lake, with the M-12 in tow. Rigged her in the parking lot, no sails bent on, and put her in the lake next to the courtesy dock. Parked, went back to the dock, and stepped aboard. Capsized immediately, and into the lake. Took my phone from my pocket, grabbed my Tilley hat before it could float away, righted the boat, and pulled myself from the water. Prudently, I took my phone back to the truck, and realized that the lake had taken another pair of sunglasses. Oh, well. > >Back to the dock, cautiously and carefully climbed back aboard, careful to keep my weight centered. Bailed the copious quantity of water that had stayed aboard out, gingerly and carefully raised the sails, and worked my way to the painter. Setting myself free from the dock, I took the tiller and straightened it out, sheeted in, and capsized immediately. While contemplating the life jacket and throwable floating away, and making sure that I had a firm grip on my Tilley, I brought the sails in, swam around to the centerboard, and righted it again. Having had enough for one day, I put her back on the trailer, unrigged and hauled her back to town. Cute, but tender as a baby's behind. > >Thomas Howe > > > > > >[cid:image002.jpg@01D3F381.D0F14580] > >

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 183, Issue 17
by Jon Barber 25 May '18

25 May '18

On the tabrnackle debate and simplifying mast raising, I agree with Jerry, the simpler the better. Since installing a Rudder Craft Rudder with mast raising device I no longer have to ship and unship my rudder when launching and retrieving, or find a place to stow the rudder for trailering. Seems trivial but saves loads of time. The mast raising support remains installed and available for use anytime. I frequently lower and raise the mast at the slip or dockside where I feel the process is safer than on the trailer, where a fall would be from a greater height, and onto the hard. I also can exit the parking lot within 20 minutes, making that space available for others. My mast raising tackle is a salvaged mainsheet, attached to the bow and , use the jib halyard. Mast raising device in the extended position, I simply push the mast up. Not at all difficult. After a certain angle is attained leverage takes over. After lowering I secure the tackle to the toe rail so it is in place for the next raising, saving another step. Every step you eliminate when launching and retrieving saves time and lets you get on with the real business; that of sailing these fine boats. Jon Barber Montgomery 17 Ol'44 On Wed, May 23, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Question on port cockpit locker lid/seat, early M17 > (jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org) > 2. Re: Rigging for my boat (Gary Froeschner) > 3. Re: Rigging for my boat (Thomas Buzzi) > 4. Re: Question on port cockpit locker lid/seat, early M17 > (swwheatley(a)comcast.net) > 5. Re: Rigging for my boat (Dan Farrell) > 6. Re: Rigging for my boat (Erik Stavrand) > 7. Re: CB stop pin (John Schinnerer) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 13:48:52 -0700 > From: <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question on port cockpit locker lid/seat, early > M17 > Message-ID: <92995E9DB42B44FABD7A3D394AB01083@CH002914> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type=response > > The first few 17's had a core of foam, but when balsa core became readily > available we switched to that. Balsa is far better for a deck. At this > point grind or peel the aftermarket core out and replace it with either > balsa or plywood, using epoxy resin. If the flat of the hatch cover is > distorted I'd use plywood, bonding it in and putting some weight on the > plywood until the epoxy cures, then covering the ply with a layer of > cloth, > again with epoxy. > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Schinnerer > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 11:43 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: M_Boats: Question on port cockpit locker lid/seat, early M17 > > My M17 is #38, 1974. > Has the small starboard locker/seat, and the longer port one. > > I am wondering if anyone can tell me what is on the underside of their > port locker lid/seat, for a similar vintage boat, to brace/support the > seat function of the lid. > > The small starboard lid/seat has a nice factory foam core with glass > over it to stiffen it up. > > The port one, on mine, has an obviously DIY very badly done raised foam > core and fiberglass attempt to stiffen it up. But it doesn't look like > it replaced a failed OEM one, or that an OEM one was cut away (WTF would > do that?)...? > > What (if anything) was used to support/stiffen the underside of the port > seat/lid on early M17's? > > The hack job stiffener is coming loose along the edges (resin/glass > wasn't bonded well to underside of seat) so I need to remove it and do > something else to stiffen up that seat. > > I am thinking to just put a couple layers of 6 oz cloth and epoxy (or > maybe just one will be enough). Way easier than trying to do a foam core > stiffener. > > Any reason I should try and do something fancier? > > thanks, > John S. > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 20:34:36 -0600 > From: Gary Froeschner <gfroesch(a)socket.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>, Erik Stavrand > <stavrand(a)me.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat > Message-ID: <E1fLIjd-0001MG-BS(a)mx04.mta.xmission.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I am replacing the centerboard stop pin in my M17. It was busted out and > long gone. I?ve finished the keel repair and am ready to drill the hole > and install the SS pin that acts as a stop for the centerboard. I > understand it?s 3/8? dia x about 3? long. Was there anything special about > these, or will any 3/8? x the correct length SS bolt work? > > I do not intend to counter boar the holes. I don?t want to take away any > more meat. It already busted out once, before I owed it. I don?t know if > the original one was counter boarded or not. The pivot pin is. Any > thoughts? > > Thanks. I?m not sure how to post things to the sight in general. I just > replied to one of the emails. > > Gary Froeschner > Columbia, MO > M17 ? hall #095 > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > From: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 3:17 PM > To: Erik Stavrand; 'For and abmontgomery forum > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat > > I don?t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and > myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the > greatest respect for Dave- he?s a smart guy and is probably a better > all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail > better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to > sail but not at the expense of performance. I?m happy with a mast support > that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the > support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For > you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it > would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on > it. obviously you?d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn?t > need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and > windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I?m > perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay > triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I?ve done some cruising in, > using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up > the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a > ?real? bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but > not a trailerable. > > I?m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some > of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the > Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it?s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also > used on many others) of mast stabilizer won?t work as far as I can see. > Doesn?t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, > hasn?t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, > hopefully you?ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I?ll get back to you if > I come up with anything. > > From: Erik Stavrand > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM > To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat > > Hi Jerry, > > Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I?ll be interested in your > thoughts after the race - good luck. > > Also - I?m thinking I?ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and > mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached? > > Thanks, > > Erik > > > Erik Stavrand > stavrand(a)me.com > > If your dreams don?t scare you they?re not big enough. > > > > > On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > > I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to > attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as > usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going > off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm > soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to > work out something for my boat before I fall off! > > -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM > To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > Subject: Rigging for my boat > > Hi Jerry, > > I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid > mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a > railway crossing that I?ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay > could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? > > Thanks in advance for your input! > > Erik > > Erik Stavrand > 941-661-9609 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 22 May 2018 22:03:01 -0500 > From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat > Message-ID: > <CA+TbpAUaLXyNB3H6XodYgPGR1=Rw= > 8gMj+NPFgQ_va0g+frtLg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Gary, > Countersinking the bolt will weaken what is left down there and will not > effect your speed at all. What I did when I changed mine out was, bought a > piece of 3/8 inch reinforced rubber fuel line from an auto supply. It was > as long as the width of your centerboard slot. As I slid the new bolt > through the holes I made sure the bolt also ran through the center of that > piece of reinforced rubber fuel line. What this does is wraps your pin with > rubber. It makes a big difference in cushioning the impact of your > centerboard against that pin and helps preserve the fiberglass, etc. there. > If you want to enhance the shock absorbing effect get another piece of hose > the same length as the 3/8 inch fuel line with an inside diameter that will > fit snugly over the 3/8 inch fuel line. Install the pin through both these > rubber hoses. You will have to cut a "V" in the outer one to clear the aft > edge of the centerboard but if you do that you will add another layer of > shock absorbing rubber on the top of the bolt which is where you want it. > Make sure the "V" you cut in the outer hose section will easily clear the > trailing edge of the centerboard so it will not be spun by the centerboard > as you raise or lower it, thus binding your board. I have used only the one > hose but now when I lower the board instead of feeling/hearing a solid > "thunk!" I don't hear anything at all. Just the soft landing of the board > against the pin. > Fair winds, > Tom Buzzi, Monty 17, "AS-IS". 1977 #258 > > On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 9:34 PM, Gary Froeschner <gfroesch(a)socket.net> > wrote: > > > I am replacing the centerboard stop pin in my M17. It was busted out and > > long gone. I?ve finished the keel repair and am ready to drill the hole > > and install the SS pin that acts as a stop for the centerboard. I > > understand it?s 3/8? dia x about 3? long. Was there anything special > about > > these, or will any 3/8? x the correct length SS bolt work? > > > > I do not intend to counter boar the holes. I don?t want to take away any > > more meat. It already busted out once, before I owed it. I don?t know > if > > the original one was counter boarded or not. The pivot pin is. Any > > thoughts? > > > > Thanks. I?m not sure how to post things to the sight in general. I just > > replied to one of the emails. > > > > Gary Froeschner > > Columbia, MO > > M17 ? hall #095 > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > From: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 3:17 PM > > To: Erik Stavrand; 'For and abmontgomery forum > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat > > > > I don?t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and > > myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have > the > > greatest respect for Dave- he?s a smart guy and is probably a better > > all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail > > better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier > to > > sail but not at the expense of performance. I?m happy with a mast > support > > that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the > > support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For > > you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it > > would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on > > it. obviously you?d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn?t > > need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and > > windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I?m > > perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay > > triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I?ve done some cruising in, > > using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up > > the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a > > ?real? bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, > but > > not a trailerable. > > > > I?m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some > > of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that > the > > Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it?s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type > (also > > used on many others) of mast stabilizer won?t work as far as I can see. > > Doesn?t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same > characteristic, > > hasn?t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If > so, > > hopefully you?ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I?ll get back to you > if > > I come up with anything. > > > > From: Erik Stavrand > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM > > To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > > Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat > > > > Hi Jerry, > > > > Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I?ll be interested in your > > thoughts after the race - good luck. > > > > Also - I?m thinking I?ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom > and > > mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Erik > > > > > > Erik Stavrand > > stavrand(a)me.com > > > > If your dreams don?t scare you they?re not big enough. > > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > > > > I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to > > attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as > > usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from > going > > off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. > I'm > > soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to > > work out something for my boat before I fall off! > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM > > To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > > Subject: Rigging for my boat > > > > Hi Jerry, > > > > I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid > > mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a > > railway crossing that I?ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay > > could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? > > > > Thanks in advance for your input! > > > > Erik > > > > Erik Stavrand > > 941-661-9609 > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 08:05:51 -0400 > From: <swwheatley(a)comcast.net> > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Question on port cockpit locker lid/seat, early > M17 > Message-ID: <000d01d3f28e$653e5ce0$2fbb16a0$(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > My M17 is a June 1976 build. It has balsa core in what you might call the > upper deck, but has foam core in the cockpit area. Based on my boat, the > foam core under the port locker lid should look just like the foam core > under the starboard locker lid, only bigger. I would not assume you are > looking at a crappy DIY job. On my boat, I replaced the foam core under the > starboard cockpit seat (the larger seat area, not the locker lid) because > huge voids were it should have been bedded in polyester resin were causing > it to delaminate. That part of the build must have been done on a Friday > afternoon. I used one of the modern foam cores (Divinylcel or something > like that) bedded in epoxy resin and covered with one layer of glass--a big > improvement over the OEM florist foam job. > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com> On > Behalf Of John Schinnerer > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 2:44 AM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Question on port cockpit locker lid/seat, early M17 > > My M17 is #38, 1974. > Has the small starboard locker/seat, and the longer port one. > > I am wondering if anyone can tell me what is on the underside of their > port locker lid/seat, for a similar vintage boat, to brace/support the seat > function of the lid. > > The small starboard lid/seat has a nice factory foam core with glass over > it to stiffen it up. > > The port one, on mine, has an obviously DIY very badly done raised foam > core and fiberglass attempt to stiffen it up. But it doesn't look like it > replaced a failed OEM one, or that an OEM one was cut away (WTF would do > that?)...? > > What (if anything) was used to support/stiffen the underside of the port > seat/lid on early M17's? > > The hack job stiffener is coming loose along the edges (resin/glass wasn't > bonded well to underside of seat) so I need to remove it and do something > else to stiffen up that seat. > > I am thinking to just put a couple layers of 6 oz cloth and epoxy (or > maybe just one will be enough). Way easier than trying to do a foam core > stiffener. > > Any reason I should try and do something fancier? > > thanks, > John S. > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 08:33:32 -0500 > From: Dan Farrell <msog(a)danf.us> > To: Msog List <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat > Message-ID: <gj7vdbet71ubix1afksfcsbs.1527082340620(a)email.android.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > When I don't feel like trying to manhandle the thing, I usually do > something similar.? Instead of the mainsheet tackle, I use my jib sheet > blocks , which are easier to detach.? I clip one to the bow and one to the > jib halyard.? Then I run a long line from the bow cleat through the jib > block and then the bow block and back to one of the jib sheet winches.? It > works very well and is pretty simple to rig up.? I've done it at the dock a > few times to retrieve skyed halyards and it worked.? In a pinch, I think > I'd do the same thing underway.? > > I can't imagine trying to for a gallows comfortably on the 17.? I'd be > tempted to build a little removable triangle support instead , standing it > up against the cockpit combings in line with the backstay and securing with > guys to the backstay chainplates and jib cleats. Send like a cheap and > easy thing to build, rig, and store when not in use! > > > Dan Farrell > M17 #301 > > John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: > > >Agree with Jerry, use the jib halyard not the forestay. > > > >One good reason being,you need to detach and re-attach the forestay when > >lowering/raising mast, so you want the tension of raising and lowering > >on something else, not on the forestay. Otherwise...what's holding the > >mast up, while you detach the forestay to lower or reattach it after > >raising? How do you get a little slack in the forestay to get it > connected? > > > >On my M-17 I raise/lower using jib halyard and additional line/tackle, > >with attachment point forward being the bow pulpit. > > > >To lower I just use a line (clipped to jib halyard) with friction turns > >around a winch, I can reach up & lower the mast weight OK myself from > >rear of cockpit when the line gets too low angle to work. > > > >To raise I put my mainsheet tackle in the system. Boom block clips to > >jib halyard. Traveler block with cam cleat clips to bow pulpit. That way > >the cam cleat works to hold the raising line as I go up, I can pause > >going up, move feet or hands, etc. any time with the line held by the cam. > > > >Also agree about simplicity...I like to keep my systems as simple as > >possible to meet the essential needs. Less is more, as the saying > >goes...less to tangle or trip over, less to maintain, less to take out > >and put away, clean, dry, etc. > > > >cheers, > >John S. > > > >On 05/21/2018 02:11 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > >> I don?t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and > myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the > greatest respect for Dave- he?s a smart guy and is probably a better > all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail > better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to > sail but not at the expense of performance. I?m happy with a mast support > that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the > support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For > you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it > would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on > it. obviously you?d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn?t > need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and > windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I?m > perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay > triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I?ve done some cruising in, > using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up > the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a > ?real? bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but > not a trailerable. > >> > >> I?m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; > some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware > that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it?s a 7/8 rig, so the > M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won?t work as far > as I can see. Doesn?t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same > characteristic, hasn?t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the > job done. If so, hopefully you?ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I?ll > get back to you if I come up with anything. > >> > >> From: Erik Stavrand > >> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM > >> To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > >> Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat > >> > >> Hi Jerry, > >> > >> Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I?ll be interested in your > thoughts after the race - good luck. > >> > >> Also - I?m thinking I?ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom > and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom > attached? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Erik > >> > >> > >> Erik Stavrand > >> stavrand(a)me.com > >> > >> If your dreams don?t scare you they?re not big enough. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > >> > >> I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to > attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as > usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going > off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm > soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to > work out something for my boat before I fall off! > >> > >> -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand > >> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM > >> To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > >> Subject: Rigging for my boat > >> > >> Hi Jerry, > >> > >> I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a > rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house > has a railway crossing that I?ll need to go under. Do you think the > headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? > >> > >> Thanks in advance for your input! > >> > >> Erik > >> > >> Erik Stavrand > >> 941-661-9609 > >> > > > >-- > >John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > >-------------------------------------------- > >- Eco-Living - > >Whole Systems Design Services > >People - Place - Learning - Integration > >john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > >http://eco-living.net > >http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 12:06:55 -0400 > From: Erik Stavrand <stavrand(a)me.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat > Message-ID: <1DFD7F8F-12EF-4EFC-ABEC-8D13262D54EC(a)me.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Dan and John, > > Thanks for the input - I?ll send updates as it progresses (later this > summer). > > Erik > > > > > On May 23, 2018, at 9:33 AM, Dan Farrell <msog(a)danf.us> wrote: > > > > When I don't feel like trying to manhandle the thing, I usually do > something similar. Instead of the mainsheet tackle, I use my jib sheet > blocks , which are easier to detach. I clip one to the bow and one to the > jib halyard. Then I run a long line from the bow cleat through the jib > block and then the bow block and back to one of the jib sheet winches. It > works very well and is pretty simple to rig up. I've done it at the dock a > few times to retrieve skyed halyards and it worked. In a pinch, I think > I'd do the same thing underway. > > > > I can't imagine trying to for a gallows comfortably on the 17. I'd be > tempted to build a little removable triangle support instead , standing it > up against the cockpit combings in line with the backstay and securing with > guys to the backstay chainplates and jib cleats. Send like a cheap and > easy thing to build, rig, and store when not in use! > > > > > > Dan Farrell > > M17 #301 > > > > John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: > > > >> Agree with Jerry, use the jib halyard not the forestay. > >> > >> One good reason being,you need to detach and re-attach the forestay > when > >> lowering/raising mast, so you want the tension of raising and lowering > >> on something else, not on the forestay. Otherwise...what's holding the > >> mast up, while you detach the forestay to lower or reattach it after > >> raising? How do you get a little slack in the forestay to get it > connected? > >> > >> On my M-17 I raise/lower using jib halyard and additional line/tackle, > >> with attachment point forward being the bow pulpit. > >> > >> To lower I just use a line (clipped to jib halyard) with friction turns > >> around a winch, I can reach up & lower the mast weight OK myself from > >> rear of cockpit when the line gets too low angle to work. > >> > >> To raise I put my mainsheet tackle in the system. Boom block clips to > >> jib halyard. Traveler block with cam cleat clips to bow pulpit. That > way > >> the cam cleat works to hold the raising line as I go up, I can pause > >> going up, move feet or hands, etc. any time with the line held by the > cam. > >> > >> Also agree about simplicity...I like to keep my systems as simple as > >> possible to meet the essential needs. Less is more, as the saying > >> goes...less to tangle or trip over, less to maintain, less to take out > >> and put away, clean, dry, etc. > >> > >> cheers, > >> John S. > >> > >> On 05/21/2018 02:11 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > >>> I don?t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and > myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the > greatest respect for Dave- he?s a smart guy and is probably a better > all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail > better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to > sail but not at the expense of performance. I?m happy with a mast support > that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the > support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For > you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it > would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on > it. obviously you?d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn?t > need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and > windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I?m > perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay > triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I?ve done some cruising in, > using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up > the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a > ?real? bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but > not a trailerable. > >>> > >>> I?m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; > some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware > that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it?s a 7/8 rig, so the > M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won?t work as far > as I can see. Doesn?t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same > characteristic, hasn?t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the > job done. If so, hopefully you?ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I?ll > get back to you if I come up with anything. > >>> > >>> From: Erik Stavrand > >>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM > >>> To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > >>> Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat > >>> > >>> Hi Jerry, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I?ll be interested in your > thoughts after the race - good luck. > >>> > >>> Also - I?m thinking I?ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom > and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom > attached? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Erik > >>> > >>> > >>> Erik Stavrand > >>> stavrand(a)me.com > >>> > >>> If your dreams don?t scare you they?re not big enough. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > >>> > >>> I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to > attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as > usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going > off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm > soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to > work out something for my boat before I fall off! > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand > >>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM > >>> To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > >>> Subject: Rigging for my boat > >>> > >>> Hi Jerry, > >>> > >>> I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a > rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house > has a railway crossing that I?ll need to go under. Do you think the > headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? > >>> > >>> Thanks in advance for your input! > >>> > >>> Erik > >>> > >>> Erik Stavrand > >>> 941-661-9609 > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > >> -------------------------------------------- > >> - Eco-Living - > >> Whole Systems Design Services > >> People - Place - Learning - Integration > >> john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > >> http://eco-living.net > >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 23 May 2018 10:12:10 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: CB stop pin > Message-ID: <cac34980-87e9-81d2-899f-ea245a15af77(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I had to redo that area on my M17 also (#38). > > I countersunk the hex head end of the bolt, but not the nut end. The > head is fairly thin so it's a small countersink. The nut end, being a > nylon insert locknut, would be about twice as deep a countersink so for > now it just snugs down against the keel surface. I might partially > countersink it at some point. I would keep some of the flats exposed in > order to be able to get a wrench or socket on it. Otherwise I'd have to > make the countersink hole wide enough to get a socket into and I'd > rather minimize the removal of material in that area. > > I also did what Tom mentioned, put a piece of 3/8" ID fuel hose on the > bolt. > NOTE that this is a minor cushioning measure to avoid the metal on metal > at CB and stop pin. If one drops the early model very heavy CB with "too > much" force the pin will bust out regardless of fuel hose or no fuel hose. > > cheers, > John S. > > On 05/22/2018 07:34 PM, Gary Froeschner wrote: > > I am replacing the centerboard stop pin in my M17. It was busted out > and long gone. I?ve finished the keel repair and am ready to drill the > hole and install the SS pin that acts as a stop for the centerboard. I > understand it?s 3/8? dia x about 3? long. Was there anything special about > these, or will any 3/8? x the correct length SS bolt work? > > > > I do not intend to counter boar the holes. I don?t want to take away > any more meat. It already busted out once, before I owed it. I don?t know > if the original one was counter boarded or not. The pivot pin is. Any > thoughts? > > > > Thanks. I?m not sure how to post things to the sight in general. I > just replied to one of the emails. > > > > Gary Froeschner > > Columbia, MO > > M17 ? hall #095 > > > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10 > > > > From: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 3:17 PM > > To: Erik Stavrand; 'For and abmontgomery forum > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat > > > > I don?t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and > myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the > greatest respect for Dave- he?s a smart guy and is probably a better > all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail > better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to > sail but not at the expense of performance. I?m happy with a mast support > that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the > support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For > you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it > would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on > it. obviously you?d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn?t > need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and > windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I?m > perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay > triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I?ve done some cruising in, > using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up > the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a > ?real? bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but > not a trailerable. > > > > I?m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; > some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware > that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it?s a 7/8 rig, so the > M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won?t work as far > as I can see. Doesn?t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same > characteristic, hasn?t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the > job done. If so, hopefully you?ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I?ll > get back to you if I come up with anything. > > > > From: Erik Stavrand > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM > > To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > > Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat > > > > Hi Jerry, > > > > Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I?ll be interested in your > thoughts after the race - good luck. > > > > Also - I?m thinking I?ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom > and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom > attached? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Erik > > > > > > Erik Stavrand > > stavrand(a)me.com > > > > If your dreams don?t scare you they?re not big enough. > > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: > > > > I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to > attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as > usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going > off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm > soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to > work out something for my boat before I fall off! > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM > > To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org > > Subject: Rigging for my boat > > > > Hi Jerry, > > > > I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid > mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a > railway crossing that I?ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay > could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? > > > > Thanks in advance for your input! > > > > Erik > > > > Erik Stavrand > > 941-661-9609 > > > > > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > ------------------------------ > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 183, Issue 17 > ************************************************* >

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M-17 Gudgeon mounts
by Kevin Sandwick 24 May '18

24 May '18

The bolts holding the gudgeon plates are loose on my new to me M-17 (hull #400), I can access the middle set but the top and especially the lower set are a problem, I am thinking about cutting in a 6 inch inspection port in the bottom of the rear lazerette, That would give me access to the lower set. Maybe a 4 inch port in the cockpit side of the transom for the upper set. I may not need the upper, it is reachable but difficult. Before I start cutting holes in the boat I figure this is a good place to hear from others who have solved this problem. Thanks, Kevin

3 2

The Tender Montgomery 12
by Thomas Howe 24 May '18

24 May '18

A couple of weeks ago I bought a M-12 from our yacht club, it had been neglected and I thought that it would make a great little knockabout. Cleaned it all up, whipped all the lines, ran new running rigging where needed, rigged it in my driveway, tried to connect with the sailmaker that made the crisp new headsail, to no avail, and covered it back up. Yesterday, the wind was kind, 12-15 mph, and the sun was out. What a perfect day for a maiden sail, I thinks to myself. SO out to the lake, with the M-12 in tow. Rigged her in the parking lot, no sails bent on, and put her in the lake next to the courtesy dock. Parked, went back to the dock, and stepped aboard. Capsized immediately, and into the lake. Took my phone from my pocket, grabbed my Tilley hat before it could float away, righted the boat, and pulled myself from the water. Prudently, I took my phone back to the truck, and realized that the lake had taken another pair of sunglasses. Oh, well. Back to the dock, cautiously and carefully climbed back aboard, careful to keep my weight centered. Bailed the copious quantity of water that had stayed aboard out, gingerly and carefully raised the sails, and worked my way to the painter. Setting myself free from the dock, I took the tiller and straightened it out, sheeted in, and capsized immediately. While contemplating the life jacket and throwable floating away, and making sure that I had a firm grip on my Tilley, I brought the sails in, swam around to the centerboard, and righted it again. Having had enough for one day, I put her back on the trailer, unrigged and hauled her back to town. Cute, but tender as a baby's behind. Thomas Howe [cid:image002.jpg@01D3F381.D0F14580]

2 1

Re: M_Boats: Rigging for my boat
by Dan Farrell 23 May '18

23 May '18

When I don't feel like trying to manhandle the thing, I usually do something similar. Instead of the mainsheet tackle, I use my jib sheet blocks , which are easier to detach. I clip one to the bow and one to the jib halyard. Then I run a long line from the bow cleat through the jib block and then the bow block and back to one of the jib sheet winches. It works very well and is pretty simple to rig up. I've done it at the dock a few times to retrieve skyed halyards and it worked. In a pinch, I think I'd do the same thing underway. I can't imagine trying to for a gallows comfortably on the 17. I'd be tempted to build a little removable triangle support instead , standing it up against the cockpit combings in line with the backstay and securing with guys to the backstay chainplates and jib cleats. Send like a cheap and easy thing to build, rig, and store when not in use! Dan Farrell M17 #301 John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: >Agree with Jerry, use the jib halyard not the forestay. > >One good reason being,you need to detach and re-attach the forestay when >lowering/raising mast, so you want the tension of raising and lowering >on something else, not on the forestay. Otherwise...what's holding the >mast up, while you detach the forestay to lower or reattach it after >raising? How do you get a little slack in the forestay to get it connected? > >On my M-17 I raise/lower using jib halyard and additional line/tackle, >with attachment point forward being the bow pulpit. > >To lower I just use a line (clipped to jib halyard) with friction turns >around a winch, I can reach up & lower the mast weight OK myself from >rear of cockpit when the line gets too low angle to work. > >To raise I put my mainsheet tackle in the system. Boom block clips to >jib halyard. Traveler block with cam cleat clips to bow pulpit. That way >the cam cleat works to hold the raising line as I go up, I can pause >going up, move feet or hands, etc. any time with the line held by the cam. > >Also agree about simplicity...I like to keep my systems as simple as >possible to meet the essential needs. Less is more, as the saying >goes...less to tangle or trip over, less to maintain, less to take out >and put away, clean, dry, etc. > >cheers, >John S. > >On 05/21/2018 02:11 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: >> I don’t know about the gallows. A difference between Dave Scobie and myself is that he likes lots of gadgets and I like simplicity. I have the greatest respect for Dave- he’s a smart guy and is probably a better all-round sailor than I am. I like all the things that make a boat sail better and faster, and aside from that I like things that make it easier to sail but not at the expense of performance. I’m happy with a mast support that fits in the rudder gudgeons, and as soon as the mast goes up the support goes in the back of my truck, along with the tie-down lines. For you, since you need to lower the mast to go under the bridge, maybe it would work to just keep the mast support on the boat and drop the mast on it. obviously you’d need to sister the rudder gudgeons so you wouldn’t need to unship the rudder. To me, the gallows is weight aloft, and windage, both of which are detrimental to performance. When I anchor I’m perfectly happy to either hook the end of the boom to the backstay triangle, or, in the case of the M-15, which I’ve done some cruising in, using the main halyard, then furling the main on the boom and setting up the cockpit awning over the boom. I can see the value of a gallows on a “real” bluewater boat that will be sitting for days or weeks at anchor, but not a trailerable. >> >> I’m going to take the liberty of putting this thread on the M forum; some of those people will have something to say. M-17 owners- be aware that the Sage has the shrouds swept aft since it’s a 7/8 rig, so the M-23-type (also used on many others) of mast stabilizer won’t work as far as I can see. Doesn’t mean that some smart M-15 user, which has the same characteristic, hasn’t some up with a simple and ingenious way to get the job done. If so, hopefully you’ll hear from him/her. Good luck and I’ll get back to you if I come up with anything. >> >> From: Erik Stavrand >> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 1:27 PM >> To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org >> Subject: Re: Rigging for my boat >> >> Hi Jerry, >> >> Thanks for the suggestion - it is elegant. I’ll be interested in your thoughts after the race - good luck. >> >> Also - I’m thinking I’ll need a boom gallows (or a crutch for the boom and mast). As rigged from Sage can the mast come back with the boom attached? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Erik >> >> >> Erik Stavrand >> stavrand(a)me.com >> >> If your dreams don’t scare you they’re not big enough. >> >> >> >> >> On May 21, 2018, at 4:06 PM, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org wrote: >> >> I'd use the jib halyard rather than the forestay. it might work to attach the halyard to the bow pulpit, then run it back to the winch as usual. You'd still need someone (or something) to keep the mast from going off to one side. I have a race this weekend and I'll think about it. I'm soon going to be 78 and am starting to get weak and wobbly so I need to work out something for my boat before I fall off! >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Erik Stavrand >> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 5:26 AM >> To: jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org >> Subject: Rigging for my boat >> >> Hi Jerry, >> >> I have a Sage 17 and am interested in your recommendation for a rapid mast raising system using the tabernacle. The marina near my house has a railway crossing that I’ll need to go under. Do you think the headstay could be led to a turning block and aft to the cockpit? >> >> Thanks in advance for your input! >> >> Erik >> >> Erik Stavrand >> 941-661-9609 >> > >-- >John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >-------------------------------------------- >- Eco-Living - >Whole Systems Design Services >People - Place - Learning - Integration >john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >http://eco-living.net >http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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