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Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder - the M15 solution?
by David Grah 14 Jun '18

14 Jun '18

There is maybe too much discussion on this topic but I just can't help adding my own comment. I have a 1986 Montgomery 15 with what I believe to be the original kick up mahogany rudder. I love my rudder! It goes up and down so easily when I tell it to and even goes up when I run into something and didn't know in advance I wanted it up. I have done this often enough to appreciate this feature. It is also easy to clear it of things that wrap around it but quickly raising and lowering it. As you all probably know, the rudder is raised and lowered by raising and lowering the tiller. Up or down the process involves getting a little momentum going in the rudder to move it from one position to another. It works great. I know a 17 foot boat is different from a 15 foot boat but I don't understand why no one seems to pursue a beefier version of a Montgomery 15 rudder system for a Montgomery 17. It seems like such a great solution! David GrahBishop California

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7
by Gary Oberbeck 13 Jun '18

13 Jun '18

If I were looking for a KU rudder for a M-17 I would modify a C-22 rudder head with all the parts in place (esp. 'hockey pucks') as a good starting point using a wood or ? blade with that rudder, they are strong and quite solidly engineered pieces. My 17 had an original wood rudder and it was in poor condition so I replaced it with a new wood one years ago - stored indoors vertically and cared for beyond reason - it warped - I threw it away I was so disappointed! Used a fiberglass Catalina 250 early model (discontinued) rudder for years and still have it in the garage. It was VERY heavy (35+#) That rudder has been replaced with a foam core composite rudder made for me by a good friend - I mounted delrin gudgeons and shaped the foil on the core that he so generously built for me(it is not quite finished to this day!) This rudder shows huge advantages in weight savings at the stern (weighs 11#15oz!) it FLOATS up on the rudder rod! I have run agound on rocky bottoms and the rod took a slight bend - blade undamaged. It has been drug on a concrete ramp when retrieving (not me ;>) - a bit of abrasion at tip - easy repair. The rudder shows the smallest bit of flutter under power ONLY at max throttle then settles down (too sharp at leading edge) and is virtually impossible to stall!! There is NO flex in the blade and no 'lead' on the pintles to make it semi balanced. The boats helm has been adjusted with the rig rake. See photo of 'deflection test' when core was built. Imagine driving a 1954 Chevy truck with manual steering and then driving a 'modern car' with rack and pinion steering - that dramatic. I have owned boats with kickup rudders and they were never as positive as a fixed or sliding foil IMO. I would not trailer any boat with the rudder in place as the wear on the pintles/gudgeons is unnecessary. Whatever 'floats yer boat' - 'blows yer hair back' - 'tickles your wallet' Come on out to the 2018 Cruiser Challenge at Monterey Bay see details here - great time has been had by yours truly EVERY time I have sailed there! We will be there with the rudder blade guy as crew! cruiserchallenge.potter-yachters.org Have fUn, Go Sailing! GO -----Original Message----- From: Jon Barber <brbrbarber(a)gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 12, 2018 10:02 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7 I have the Rudder Craft rudder on my M17 "Ol'44. The rudder seems to give me crisper handling. It swings a little forward of center thus reducing weatherhelm. It came with the mast raising system so now my rudder and mast raising system remain on the boat in the water and on the trailer, saving considerable work when launching and retrieving. That alone was worth $500. I'm very happy with it. Jon Barber Ol'44 Montgomery 17 I sail therefore I am, I think On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Kevin Sandwick) > 2. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) > 3. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Bill Dixon) > 4. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) > 5. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Gerald Wolczanski) > 6. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) > 7. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (swwheatley(a)comcast.net) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:13:53 +0000 > From: Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > To: "montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > Message-ID: > < > DM3PR16MB06821E703EBA901E9341A0C5AA7F0(a)DM3PR16MB0682.namprd16.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > Thanks > > Kevin > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:19:31 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > Message-ID: > < > CAGjBOA7BrRYbRr7ZUiqAYHPM0ZnSMdyhc57PFxdyoDOemk3Lyw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not > at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the > keel (centerboard up). > > If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil > and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to > refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > > > Thanks > > > > Kevin > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:57:01 -0700 > From: "Bill Dixon" <bill(a)miralee.com> > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > Message-ID: <003b01d4025d$9f0c1410$dd243c30$(a)miralee.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > What is the best way to place and hold the mahogany rudder in its UP > position? > > Bill > M-17 Robbin > Windsor, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats [mailto: > montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20 AM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > > The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not > at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the > keel (centerboard up). > > If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil > and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to > refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > > > Thanks > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:10:39 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > Message-ID: > <CAGjBOA7TZEQ-yR6ETTQntc9GG= > azC_kO7GxkfSXq_fMTnLUu5g(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Bill. > > A line should be there at the transom that goes through a hole in the > rudder. > > Line on the second generation decks goes through the hull deck joint (held > there with an 8-knot) down through the rudder and up to a cleat on the > transom. On the original decks the line is dead-ended on an eye bolt on > the transom; cleat the same. > > Pull line up to pull up rudder and secure in cleat. simple and easy. > > A picture attached just taken here at Washington State Fort Flagler State > Park where I am on a buoy. You can also see a transom picture that shows > the system on my BLOG linked below (it is the top banner picture on the > site). > > Need more details let me know. > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:57 AM Bill Dixon <bill(a)miralee.com> wrote: > > > What is the best way to place and hold the mahogany rudder in its UP > > position? > > > > Bill > > M-17 Robbin > > Windsor, CA > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: montgomery_boats [mailto: > > montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie > > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20 AM > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > > > > The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and > not > > at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the > > keel (centerboard up). > > > > If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil > > and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to > > refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick > Up > > > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > > > > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > >

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7
by Jon Barber 12 Jun '18

12 Jun '18

I have the Rudder Craft rudder on my M17 "Ol'44. The rudder seems to give me crisper handling. It swings a little forward of center thus reducing weatherhelm. It came with the mast raising system so now my rudder and mast raising system remain on the boat in the water and on the trailer, saving considerable work when launching and retrieving. That alone was worth $500. I'm very happy with it. Jon Barber Ol'44 Montgomery 17 I sail therefore I am, I think On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 11:01 AM < montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Kevin Sandwick) > 2. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) > 3. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Bill Dixon) > 4. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) > 5. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Gerald Wolczanski) > 6. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) > 7. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (swwheatley(a)comcast.net) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:13:53 +0000 > From: Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > To: "montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > Message-ID: > < > DM3PR16MB06821E703EBA901E9341A0C5AA7F0(a)DM3PR16MB0682.namprd16.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > Thanks > > Kevin > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:19:31 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > Message-ID: > < > CAGjBOA7BrRYbRr7ZUiqAYHPM0ZnSMdyhc57PFxdyoDOemk3Lyw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not > at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the > keel (centerboard up). > > If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil > and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to > refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > > > Thanks > > > > Kevin > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:57:01 -0700 > From: "Bill Dixon" <bill(a)miralee.com> > To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > Message-ID: <003b01d4025d$9f0c1410$dd243c30$(a)miralee.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > What is the best way to place and hold the mahogany rudder in its UP > position? > > Bill > M-17 Robbin > Windsor, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats [mailto: > montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20 AM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > > The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not > at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the > keel (centerboard up). > > If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil > and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to > refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > > > Thanks > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:10:39 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > Message-ID: > <CAGjBOA7TZEQ-yR6ETTQntc9GG= > azC_kO7GxkfSXq_fMTnLUu5g(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Bill. > > A line should be there at the transom that goes through a hole in the > rudder. > > Line on the second generation decks goes through the hull deck joint (held > there with an 8-knot) down through the rudder and up to a cleat on the > transom. On the original decks the line is dead-ended on an eye bolt on > the transom; cleat the same. > > Pull line up to pull up rudder and secure in cleat. simple and easy. > > A picture attached just taken here at Washington State Fort Flagler State > Park where I am on a buoy. You can also see a transom picture that shows > the system on my BLOG linked below (it is the top banner picture on the > site). > > Need more details let me know. > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:57 AM Bill Dixon <bill(a)miralee.com> wrote: > > > What is the best way to place and hold the mahogany rudder in its UP > > position? > > > > Bill > > M-17 Robbin > > Windsor, CA > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: montgomery_boats [mailto: > > montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie > > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20 AM > > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > > > > The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and > not > > at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the > > keel (centerboard up). > > > > If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil > > and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to > > refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick > Up > > > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > > > > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > > > > >

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Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder
by Thomas Buzzi 12 Jun '18

12 Jun '18

Hi All, I am using the Ruddercraft "blue sea" rudder. The fore and aft measurement of the blade is wider than their regular design. I was told it gets a better bite on the water by the salesman. It is about ten pounds heavier than the standard setup so I suppose there is more material used. I don't know how the AK race boat rudder broke so have no ideas about that. It looks well made although I have not run it aground yet. I doubt you could damage it that way, anyway as it would just do as it was designed to do and kick up. Raising and lowering it is literally a "snap". I was able to position it so that once it is up I can use a lifting line and raise the whole ss hinge out of the water as well so none of it is exposed to marine growth. A very nice rig. If one was being blown sideways towards a rocky shore I could see how some part of the rudder could be bent but that kind of sideward pressure is outside of the design parameters of the unit. I recommend for the tool handy man the alteration of a standard Monty rudder with ss side plates to hold a ss bolt pivot. That will work well. Fair winds, Tom B

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7
by Kevin Sandwick 12 Jun '18

12 Jun '18

Dave, Thanks for the reply, Looking at the profile for a NACA 12 foil My rudder does need some reshaping. I just acquired this boat in the spring and all the wood on the boat was in really rough shape, It made me nervous the amount of wood I took off with sand paper. The leading edge of the rudder is square and with out much curve until it tapers at the trailing edge. This may be a replacement by the previous owner. There will soon be two more M-17's joining the flotilla where I moor my boat so I will wait until I can get an eyeball on one of them before making any changes. After sailing in 15-20 kt wind with a reefed main and working jib ( 105 % ) I cannot keep the boat from rounding up in any gust, I am playing with adjusting the rake of the mast and have gained some improvement but still looking for better response. Again, Thank you, I will stay tuned ! Kevin ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 1:00 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Kevin Sandwick) 2. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) 3. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Bill Dixon) 4. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) 5. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Gerald Wolczanski) 6. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (Dave Scobie) 7. Re: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder (swwheatley(a)comcast.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:13:53 +0000 From: Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> To: "montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder Message-ID: <DM3PR16MB06821E703EBA901E9341A0C5AA7F0(a)DM3PR16MB0682.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up Rudder on an M-17 ? Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? Thanks Kevin ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:19:31 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder Message-ID: <CAGjBOA7BrRYbRr7ZUiqAYHPM0ZnSMdyhc57PFxdyoDOemk3Lyw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the keel (centerboard up). If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > Thanks > > Kevin > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:57:01 -0700 From: "Bill Dixon" <bill(a)miralee.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder Message-ID: <003b01d4025d$9f0c1410$dd243c30$(a)miralee.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" What is the best way to place and hold the mahogany rudder in its UP position? Bill M-17 Robbin Windsor, CA -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the keel (centerboard up). If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > Thanks > > Kevin > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:10:39 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder Message-ID: <CAGjBOA7TZEQ-yR6ETTQntc9GG=azC_kO7GxkfSXq_fMTnLUu5g(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Bill. A line should be there at the transom that goes through a hole in the rudder. Line on the second generation decks goes through the hull deck joint (held there with an 8-knot) down through the rudder and up to a cleat on the transom. On the original decks the line is dead-ended on an eye bolt on the transom; cleat the same. Pull line up to pull up rudder and secure in cleat. simple and easy. A picture attached just taken here at Washington State Fort Flagler State Park where I am on a buoy. You can also see a transom picture that shows the system on my BLOG linked below (it is the top banner picture on the site). Need more details let me know. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:57 AM Bill Dixon <bill(a)miralee.com> wrote: > What is the best way to place and hold the mahogany rudder in its UP > position? > > Bill > M-17 Robbin > Windsor, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats [mailto: > montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 7:20 AM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rudder Craft Kick Up Rudder > > The solid mahogany one piece rudders that Jerry made are very good and not > at all prone to failure. In the 'up' position they are higher than the > keel (centerboard up). > > If you believe the rudder shape isn't right look online for a NACA12 foil > and make a template to confirm the shape of your boat's. Very easy to > refine the shape on a nice piece of wood. > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 7:14 AM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick(a)hotmail.com> > wrote: > > > Just curious, Is anybody using the Rudder Craft High Performance Kick Up > > Rudder on an M-17 ? > > > > Not an inexpensive modification. Any thoughts? > > > > Thanks > > > > Kevin > > > > >

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2018 Cruiser Challenge
by jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org 07 Jun '18

07 Jun '18

So far I don’t see any Montgomerys registered in the Monterey CC. It’s July 28-29th, and their site is open for online registration. I hope my Sage is not the only wrinklebote there! Several of us are talking about staging a spinnakers- allowed race on Sunday for those interested. Montgomerys and Sages usually dominate this race. Be there or be square!

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Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye
by Lawrence Winiarski 06 Jun '18

06 Jun '18

I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or u-bolt in the bow stem closer to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) . I've got a few reasons for wanting this. 1. I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't catch or chaffe. I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it. Seems therehas to be a better way. 2. Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if one fails. 3. I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor in rougher waves. It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, especially if the waves are coming sideways. I read through the archives and found thishttps://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-k… but they say explicitly in the description "Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye. It is intended to take the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." I see the point. Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy. So what is the solution?

6 14

Advice Repainting Reburbishing Trailer
by David Grah 03 Jun '18

03 Jun '18

The Trail-Rite trailer for our 1986 Montgomery 15 has thick (it must have been repainted at least once before we had it), chipped, and peeling paint and spots with surface rust. We'd like to repaint it but wonder what sort of preparation work the old paint would take to get new paint to stick properly at last a long time. Plus it would be good to get the rust off of it. It looks like a lot of work to do entirely ourselves! Can anyone share any experiences, good and bad, repainting old trailers like ours? I can imagine taking off the removable stuff, taking it somewhere and somehow without wheels, having it dipped to remove the old paint, and then sand-blasted, and then repainting it, but that might be a bit more work than the trailer justifies. Thanks! David GrahBishop California

5 5

Mooring
by Jon Barber 03 Jun '18

03 Jun '18

I too keep my M17 at a mooring for the summer months. My mooring ball is 2' in diameter so the pendant is pretty high off the water to begin with. I don't spend much time worrying about the attachment at the bow. I will have a look next time im out to see if it is tight and secure. I have experimented with centerboard and rudder up or down to see how she lies at the mooring. With rudder fixed amidship and centerboard1/2 way down she seems most content. My routine is to use swimfins and swim to the boat. I pull the boarding ladder over the side and climb aboard. Good practice for reboarding on a daily basis, and the swim does me good. To me theres nothing like a good approach to the ball, cutting sheets at the right time and going forward to retrieve the pendant. The swim back revives me for my drive home. On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 11:01 AM <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Lawrence Winiarski) > 2. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Conbert Benneck) > 3. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Conbert Benneck) > 4. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Dave Scobie) > 5. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Dave Scobie) > 6. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (John Schinnerer) > 7. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (John Schinnerer) > 8. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Dave Scobie) > 9. For Sale: 1976 M17 (bownez(a)juno.com) > 10. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Lawrence Winiarski) > 11. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Lawrence Winiarski) > 12. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Henry Rodriguez) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:11:13 +0000 (UTC) > From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: <193961591.747345.1527790273142(a)mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > ?Good idea.?? Seems you could just keep the rig up front on the pulpit out > of the way until you wanted to use it. > > Here's a nice fitting I just found a picture of. > > http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/29352-Tug-Eyes-Towing… > > > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > > A bit of a side comment on this part: > > On 05/31/2018 10:16 AM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote: > ... > > 1.??? ... I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe > line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat > and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard way the > last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, > eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way. > > For holding off a mooring, if you set up a triangle rig, using lines > through stiff HDPE pipe ("poly pipe") or PVC pipe, with one point on the > mooring ball and two points on your boat - such as at the bow or close > to it, and then at least several aft on one side - your boat will be > held off the ball or tire or whatever it is. It can go 'round and 'round > with wind/current, but the lines won't wrap and you won't bump the mooring. > > Wish I had a picture...saw this a couple years ago when I was on a > friend's Ranger 20 in the San Juans. Some guy next mooring over in a > Great Pelican had this setup. It was so obvious when we saw it. > > cheers, > John S. > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 13:39:31 -0500 > From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> > To: Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: <76042a0e-142c-a8ae-7880-768beba841f6(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Lawrence, > > My choice would be a S/S U-bolt (two legs share the load 50/50 rather > than? a bow eye that has just one stem and a nut and it carries 100% of > the load). ? Use very good S/S backing? plates. over a large area of > plywood and epoxy? in the bow to spread the load. > > If you could hang the M15 from this U-bolt it will be strong enough to > take care of all your potential anchor rode loads / and mooring loads. > > Connie > > ex M15 #400? LEPPO > > > > On 5/31/2018 12:16 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote: > > I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or? u-bolt in the bow stem closer > to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) .???? I've got a few reasons > for wanting this. > > > > 1.??? I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't > catch or chaffe.??? I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put > aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my > nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard > way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the > ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way. > > > > 2.? Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if > one fails. > > > > 3.?? I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the > anchor in rougher waves.??? It just seems better to be pulling fromdown > low, especially if the waves are coming sideways. > > > > ?I read through the archives and found thishttps:// > www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm > > but they say explicitly in the description > > > > "Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye.?? It is intended to take > the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." > > I see the point.??? Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading > lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, > andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also > a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy. > > > > So what is the solution? > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 14:09:42 -0500 > From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> > To: Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: <d19f3aef-d922-9698-54eb-421b23cf48ec(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Lawrence, > > More thoughts: > > I had a 9' dinghy with a bow eye used for towing. > > During a three day Nor'easter, while we were on a mooring in Oak Bluffs > harbor on Martha's Vineyard, where we took green water over the bow of > our 29' foot sailboat, the dinghy filed with rain and wave water, and > filled with water, acted as a big sea anchor.? That stopped the > 29-footer from sheering from side to side, but .... eventually the load > on the bow eye was too much; it broke; and the dinghy wound up in the > far corner of the harbor along with the all the debris of? landing > stages that Oak Bluffs had just installed for power boaters. > > When the storm finally ended, and we retrieved our dinghy, I found that > the bow eye had been made of brass, chrome plated, and it had just > fractured.?? The eye was still on the dinghy rode, and the shank and > bolt were in the bottom of the dinghy. > > ----------------------- > > You have the right idea to have the anchor attachment as low on the bow > as possible. > > Remember a recommended length for an anchor rode is 10 X the water > depth; but if you attach your anchor line to a bow cleat, you have to > add the height from the water to the bow cleat to your 10 X > calculation.? So, low is the best way to fasten the anchor rode at the bow. > > Your ultimate aim is to keep the pull on your anchor stock from the > anchor rode as close to horizontal as possible.? Bigger boats use a > special anchor rode weight that fits over the anchor rode and is slide > down the anchor rode. > > The weight does two things for you:? A) It keeps the pull on the anchor > as close to horizontal as you can get, and B) the wave action lifting > the weight on the anchor rode adds some damping to wave surge loads to > keep the anchor from being pulled out of the bottom. > > Connie > > > On 5/31/2018 12:16 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote: > > I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or? u-bolt in the bow stem closer > to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) .???? I've got a few reasons > for wanting this. > > > > 1.??? I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't > catch or chaffe.??? I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put > aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my > nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard > way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the > ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way. > > > > 2.? Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if > one fails. > > > > 3.?? I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the > anchor in rougher waves.??? It just seems better to be pulling fromdown > low, especially if the waves are coming sideways. > > > > ?I read through the archives and found thishttps:// > www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm > > but they say explicitly in the description > > > > "Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye.?? It is intended to take > the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." > > I see the point.??? Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading > lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, > andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also > a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy. > > > > So what is the solution? > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:29:26 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski(a)yahoo.com>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: > <CAGjBOA5rv9FZUauz8ySSAB3AWtZQJ79DwbtMs3QPVQaV3= > eVgg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Lawerance: > > Your boat didnt come with a bow eye as the bow plate has a big eye for > attaching the trailer winch line/strap. > > You want a ubolt boweye such as - > > http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/180-u-bolt > > You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull > liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - > > https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate > > Back the ubolt with good marine OK hardwood shaped to confirm with the bow > that you coat with resin and then fiberglass into place. > > Install the bow eye and bed with 3M4000 or 4200 or Sikaflex 291. > > The bow eye will be strong enough to lift the boat like a giant fish. > > A snubber should run off the bow cleat and have chafe protection (chocks > help). I disagree with your idea of the attachment being low ... search > net for photos of how people use a shock line for an anchor chain. Make > sure where you install the bow eye it doesn't interfer with the trailer's > bow stop. > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:17 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > > > I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or u-bolt in the bow stem closer > to > > the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) . I've got a few reasons for > > wanting this. > > > > 1. I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't > > catch or chaffe. I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put > > aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my > > nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. I learned the > hard > > way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the > > ball, eventually wound up stuck to it. Seems therehas to be a better > > way. > > > > 2. Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if > > one fails. > > > > 3. I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor > > in rougher waves. It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, > > especially if the waves are coming sideways. > > > > I read through the archives and found thishttps:// > > > www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm > > but they say explicitly in the description > > > > "Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye. It is intended to take > > the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." > > I see the point. Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading > > lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, > > andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are > also > > a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy. > > > > So what is the solution? > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:42:52 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski(a)yahoo.com>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: > <CAGjBOA5eJocbBfHupTPN9sEP_HwszKBYZ8tckbbYE= > Sqgmwo9w(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Lawerance: > > I also add a little fact about the M15 - > > An adult at the bell reaching over the side will cause the boat to roll > really easily. This relates to a David Letterman-like 'stupid Montgomery > trick' Jerry told me about - > > you can be in the water and reach up to the bow pulpit, and with a good tug > with body weight you can put the boat on her beam ends. > > > Just a little thing to think about going way forward on a little boat and > reaching low over the bow. For this reason I don't recommend having your > bow low for attaching anything to the bow eye. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 12:29 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Lawerance: > > > > Your boat didnt come with a bow eye as the bow plate has a big eye for > > attaching the trailer winch line/strap. > > > > You want a ubolt boweye such as - > > > > http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/180-u-bolt > > > > You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull > > liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - > > > > https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate > > > > Back the ubolt with good marine OK hardwood shaped to confirm with the > bow > > that you coat with resin and then fiberglass into place. > > > > Install the bow eye and bed with 3M4000 or 4200 or Sikaflex 291. > > > > The bow eye will be strong enough to lift the boat like a giant fish. > > > > A snubber should run off the bow cleat and have chafe protection (chocks > > help). I disagree with your idea of the attachment being low ... search > > net for photos of how people use a shock line for an anchor chain. Make > > sure where you install the bow eye it doesn't interfer with the trailer's > > bow stop. > > > > > > > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > > > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:17 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or u-bolt in the bow stem closer > >> to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) . I've got a few reasons > >> for wanting this. > >> > >> 1. I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't > >> catch or chaffe. I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put > >> aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from > my > >> nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. I learned the > hard > >> way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the > >> ball, eventually wound up stuck to it. Seems therehas to be a better > >> way. > >> > >> 2. Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if > >> one fails. > >> > >> 3. I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the > anchor > >> in rougher waves. It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, > >> especially if the waves are coming sideways. > >> > >> I read through the archives and found thishttps:// > >> > www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm > >> but they say explicitly in the description > >> > >> "Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye. It is intended to take > >> the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." > >> I see the point. Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading > >> lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, > >> andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are > also > >> a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy. > >> > >> So what is the solution? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:48:54 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: <34df9f68-ad13-d103-c2f8-b8a396738bfa(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > On 05/31/2018 12:29 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: > ... > > You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull > > liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - > > > > https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate > > Re boat parts, a plug for Duckworks Boat Builder Supply - in particular, > better prices for this kind of stuff (and a lot of other Monty-useful > stuff as well) and many options/sizes types: > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/181.htm > > Full disclosure - I have no investment in Duckworks, just find it > refreshing to be able to support a genuine small business with great > service, great prices, great products & variety, quick order processing, > a real live knowledgeable human on phone or e-mail support. > > cheers, > John S. > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:56:38 -0700 > From: John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: <1a7612cd-1767-a3df-e11f-f0d2081e33d9(a)eco-living.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > PS - they have the bow eye/u-bolts also for less than WM. > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/179.htm > > cheers, > John S. > > On 05/31/2018 12:48 PM, John Schinnerer wrote: > > On 05/31/2018 12:29 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: > > ... > >> You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull > >> liner.? Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - > >> > >> https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate > > > > Re boat parts, a plug for Duckworks Boat Builder Supply - in particular, > > better prices for this kind of stuff (and a lot of other Monty-useful > > stuff as well) and many options/sizes types: > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/181.htm > > > > Full disclosure - I have no investment in Duckworks, just find it > > refreshing to be able to support a genuine small business with great > > service, great prices, great products & variety, quick order processing, > > a real live knowledgeable human on phone or e-mail support. > > > > cheers, > > John S. > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 13:19:41 -0700 > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: > <CAGjBOA4imoAjPeiyRB7HoUp46s-emeSBVCGkTw=- > pd3d_1Erow(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > plug for Duckworks Boat Builder Supply > > Good call John ... I just did a Google search with my phone as I don't have > a desktop computer on Sweet Pea ;-). > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 1:10 PM John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: > > > On 05/31/2018 12:29 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: > > ... > > > You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the > hull > > > liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - > > > > > > https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate > > > > Re boat parts, a plug for Duckworks Boat Builder Supply - in particular, > > better prices for this kind of stuff (and a lot of other Monty-useful > > stuff as well) and many options/sizes types: > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/181.htm > > > > Full disclosure - I have no investment in Duckworks, just find it > > refreshing to be able to support a genuine small business with great > > service, great prices, great products & variety, quick order processing, > > a real live knowledgeable human on phone or e-mail support. > > > > cheers, > > John S. > > > > -- > > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > > -------------------------------------------- > > - Eco-Living - > > Whole Systems Design Services > > People - Place - Learning - Integration > > john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > > http://eco-living.net > > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 20:19:05 GMT > From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: For Sale: 1976 M17 > Message-ID: <20180531.151905.10511.0(a)webmail12.vgs.untd.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > My M17 of 20 years and fabulous fine times..... > > > https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/d/1976-montgomery-17-sailboat/66… > > Continue to downsize. > > Pass the word. > > Michael "Bones" Bowden > Mpls > ____________________________________________________________ > Do This Before Bed Tonight To Burn Belly Flab All Night Long > Wise Med > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5b1058fa49bb58f97208st02vuc > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 04:34:05 +0000 (UTC) > From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: <474049846.963353.1527827645046(a)mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Thanks for all the good ideas and experience. > > From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> > To: Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 12:10 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > > Lawrence, > > More thoughts: > > I had a 9' dinghy with a bow eye used for towing. > > During a three day Nor'easter, while we were on a mooring in Oak Bluffs > harbor on Martha's Vineyard, where we took green water over the bow of > our 29' foot sailboat, the dinghy filed with rain and wave water, and > filled with water, acted as a big sea anchor.? That stopped the > 29-footer from sheering from side to side, but .... eventually the load > on the bow eye was too much; it broke; and the dinghy wound up in the > far corner of the harbor along with the all the debris of? landing > stages that Oak Bluffs had just installed for power boaters. > > When the storm finally ended, and we retrieved our dinghy, I found that > the bow eye had been made of brass, chrome plated, and it had just > fractured.?? The eye was still on the dinghy rode, and the shank and > bolt were in the bottom of the dinghy. > > ----------------------- > > You have the right idea to have the anchor attachment as low on the bow > as possible. > > Remember a recommended length for an anchor rode is 10 X the water > depth; but if you attach your anchor line to a bow cleat, you have to > add the height from the water to the bow cleat to your 10 X > calculation.? So, low is the best way to fasten the anchor rode at the bow. > > Your ultimate aim is to keep the pull on your anchor stock from the > anchor rode as close to horizontal as possible.? Bigger boats use a > special anchor rode weight that fits over the anchor rode and is slide > down the anchor rode. > > The weight does two things for you:? A) It keeps the pull on the anchor > as close to horizontal as you can get, and B) the wave action lifting > the weight on the anchor rode adds some damping to wave surge loads to > keep the anchor from being pulled out of the bottom. > > Connie > > > On 5/31/2018 12:16 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote: > > I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or? u-bolt in the bow stem closer > to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) .???? I've got a few reasons > for wanting this. > > > > 1.??? I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't > catch or chaffe.??? I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put > aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my > nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard > way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the > ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way. > > > > 2.? Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if > one fails. > > > > 3.?? I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the > anchor in rougher waves.??? It just seems better to be pulling fromdown > low, especially if the waves are coming sideways. > > > >? ?I read through the archives and found thishttps:// > www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm > > but they say explicitly in the description > > > > "Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye.?? It is intended to take > the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." > > I see the point.??? Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading > lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, > andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also > a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy. > > > > So what is the solution? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 05:39:19 +0000 (UTC) > From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski(a)yahoo.com> > To: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: <698860694.964251.1527831559182(a)mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > ?It is really tippy in the bow for sure.??? In fact, that is part of my > reason for wanting to pull from down low, rather than up high on the > deck cleat.?? But you are right, that I wouldn't want to be reaching down > either to attach anything either, so anything that you fiddle with hasto be > accessible.?? > Seems like there has to be a way to have your cake and eat it > too........... > > > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski(a)yahoo.com>; For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 12:43 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > > Lawerance: > I also add a little fact about the M15 - > An adult at the bell reaching over the side will cause the boat to roll > really easily. This relates to a David Letterman-like 'stupid Montgomery > trick' Jerry told me about - > you can be in the water and reach up to the bow pulpit, and with a good > tug with body weight you can put the boat on her beam ends. > > Just a little thing to think about going way forward on a little boat and > reaching low over the bow. For this reason I don't recommend having your > bow low for attaching anything to the bow eye. > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 12:29 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Lawerance: > Your boat didnt come with a bow eye as the bow plate has a big eye for > attaching the trailer winch line/strap. > You want a ubolt boweye such as - > http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/180-u-bolt > You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull > liner.? Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - > https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate > > Back the ubolt with good marine OK hardwood shaped to confirm with the bow > that you coat with resin and then fiberglass into place. > Install the bow eye and bed with 3M4000 or 4200 or Sikaflex 291. > The bow eye will be strong enough to lift the boat like a giant fish. > A snubber should run off the bow cleat and have chafe protection (chocks > help).? I disagree with your idea of the attachment being low ... search > net for photos of how people use a shock line for an anchor chain.? Make > sure where you install the bow eye it doesn't interfer with the trailer's > bow stop. > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:17 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or? u-bolt in the bow stem closer to > the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) .???? I've got a few reasons for > wanting this.?? > > 1.??? I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't > catch or chaffe.??? I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put > aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my > nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard > way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the > ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better > way.??? > > 2.? Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if > one fails.???? > > 3.?? I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor > in rougher waves.??? It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, > especially if the waves are coming sideways.? > > ?I read through the archives and found thishttps:// > www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm > but they say explicitly in the description > > "Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye.?? It is intended to take > the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." > I see the point.??? Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading > lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, > andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also > a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy. > > So what is the solution? > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:54:11 -0500 > From: Henry Rodriguez <heinzir(a)gmail.com> > To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski(a)yahoo.com>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > Message-ID: > < > CAMKG1h+Fa16U2pcZ61VXNen9WR3PA1rJOhYeur9MYCpz121YYA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > I have been using the bow eye on my 23' VN as the primary attachment point > for my mooring pendant for over 30 years and It has all of the benefits > mentioned before, the best of which is NO CHAFE. I did beef up the U-bolt > backing so that it is stronger than the deck cleats. I do have a backup > line from the buoy to a deck cleat that also serves as a pick up line that > I grab with a boat hook when approaching the mooring, but the primary > attachment is to the bow eye. I use a large 1/2" dia ss locking carabiner > that snaps right on. > > I don't have to reach over the bow to connect it. I attach it from the > dinghy I use to get to the mooring. The first thing I do when I get to the > boat is release the line from the bow eye. The boat is still moored by the > backup/pick up line on the deck cleat. The last thing I do after sailing > is to hook the carabiner back on the bow eye (and lock it!) > > I also use this method with my M17 Monita. She is alternating summers on > the mooring with Chiquita (VN23.) > > > Henry Rodriguez > > On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 12:40 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > It is really tippy in the bow for sure. In fact, that is part of my > > reason for wanting to pull from down low, rather than up high on the > > deck cleat. But you are right, that I wouldn't want to be reaching down > > either to attach anything either, so anything that you fiddle with hasto > be > > accessible. > > Seems like there has to be a way to have your cake and eat it > > too........... > > > > > > From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > > To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski(a)yahoo.com>; For and about > > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 12:43 PM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye > > > > Lawerance: > > I also add a little fact about the M15 - > > An adult at the bell reaching over the side will cause the boat to roll > > really easily. This relates to a David Letterman-like 'stupid Montgomery > > trick' Jerry told me about - > > you can be in the water and reach up to the bow pulpit, and with a good > > tug with body weight you can put the boat on her beam ends. > > > > Just a little thing to think about going way forward on a little boat and > > reaching low over the bow. For this reason I don't recommend having your > > bow low for attaching anything to the bow eye. > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 12:29 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Lawerance: > > Your boat didnt come with a bow eye as the bow plate has a big eye for > > attaching the trailer winch line/strap. > > You want a ubolt boweye such as - > > http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/180-u-bolt > > You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull > > liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - > > https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate > > > > Back the ubolt with good marine OK hardwood shaped to confirm with the > bow > > that you coat with resin and then fiberglass into place. > > Install the bow eye and bed with 3M4000 or 4200 or Sikaflex 291. > > The bow eye will be strong enough to lift the boat like a giant fish. > > A snubber should run off the bow cleat and have chafe protection (chocks > > help). I disagree with your idea of the attachment being low ... search > > net for photos of how people use a shock line for an anchor chain. Make > > sure where you install the bow eye it doesn't interfer with the trailer's > > bow stop. > > > > > > > > > > :: Dave Scobie > > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com > > On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:17 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < > > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > > > > > I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or u-bolt in the bow stem closer > to > > the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) . I've got a few reasons for > > wanting this. > > > > 1. I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't > > catch or chaffe. I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put > > aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my > > nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. I learned the > hard > > way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the > > ball, eventually wound up stuck to it. Seems therehas to be a better > > way. > > > > 2. Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if > > one fails. > > > > 3. I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor > > in rougher waves. It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, > > especially if the waves are coming sideways. > > > > I read through the archives and found thishttps:// > > > www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm > > but they say explicitly in the description > > > > "Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye. It is intended to take > > the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." > > I see the point. Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading > > lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, > > andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are > also > > a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy. > > > > So what is the solution? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > ------------------------------ > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 184, Issue 1 > ************************************************ >

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Re: M_Boats: For Sale: 1976 M17
by bownez＠juno.com 02 Jun '18

02 Jun '18

Greetings Gerry, Good to hear from you, you gotta love Dhana, she is a real beauty and a head turner! Let me state emphatically that may be selling my sailboats, but I am NOT leaving sailing! I now have access to two Cape Dory boats, a 26 and a 22, slipped in different locations. I can crew for these owners, or use their boats. I have owned my M17 for 20 years and had great adventures with her. But, I now find myself using my fishing boat, and my camper more for ease of use. I sailed my M17 once last summer, all my time is spent on other boats it seems. It is also time for me to look at all my toys and try to downsize. I have a fellow coming to look at the 17 tomorrow, It makes me happy that Dhana has a fine home with you and your family..... All the best, be safe out there. Mike Bowden ____________________________________________________________ Good Morning America Confirms Unfortunate News greatsuperstars.world http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5b129704ba8da17044165st04vuc

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