June 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Northwest cruise blog
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

Sounds like a great time. Maybe next year. Please tell Fred and Lilly that "sal" said hello. I've had email conversations with Fred for a while. Great guy. they have the Hull #1 of the new M23 deck. BTW, what does "Motu iti" mean? sal In a message dated 6/11/2009 1:35:23 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, Eeeisen(a)aol.com writes: "Sea Cutter" has arrived! All the way from Arizona. We looked up and said "there's another Monty!" Lilly and Fred are delightfully people. Their plan is to launch today and stay on "Sea Cutter" tonight. Dorothy Eisen M-17 Motu iti fixed keel **************Dell Deals: Don’t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************Dell Deals: Don’t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=htt… i)

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Re: M_Boats: Northwest cruise blog
by Eeeisen＠aol.com 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

"Sea Cutter" has arrived! All the way from Arizona. We looked up and said "there's another Monty!" Lilly and Fred are delightfully people. Their plan is to launch today and stay on "Sea Cutter" tonight. Dorothy Eisen M-17 Motu iti fixed keel **************Dell Deals: Don’t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=htt… i)

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cabin heaters
by John R. Butler 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

I have had successful cabin heaters on a Cape Dory Typhoon, a Cape Cod Catboat, and now my M15. I always had a good Charlie Noble for each, and I believe that using an external combustion air source is counterproductive to one of the benefits of cabin heat: Any vented, internal combustion heater lowers the relative humidity in the cabin by raising the cabin temperature. I used natural oak charcoal for fuel on the first two, and Sterno "canned heat" on my current heater which had to be built smaller for the smaller cabin size. Solar powered cabin ventilation provide more than enough combustion air. John R. Butler theoldcat(a)cox.net First M15 was "Joy", '83 #264 Now sail "Rejoyce!", '86 #361

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Re: M_Boats: cabin heaters
by W David Scobie 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

my folks owned a cheoy lee 32 for 11 years. she was a '79 model. she had a forced air propane heater. with this setup she was a 12-month boat for puget sound sailing. heat is really nice to have till mid-june and after the first weeks of september. negative ... always the concern about CO and the propane system (propane also used for the stove/oven). the other, as stated, is the amount of water in the cabin because of condensation. my father always talked of getting a diesel heater. he sold the boat before beginning 'that' project. funny thing ... the heater system venting by ducts throughout the boat. not that 32' is all that long. the first 'stop' in the duct-work was the head. when using the heater we proped the door to the head open to speed the cabin heating ... if you didn't the head would be 15-20 deg warmer than the rest of the boat. guests always wondered about this. but, as we all know, on boat you just do things different ;-) dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Wed, 6/10/09, John R. Butler <theoldcat(a)cox.net> wrote: I have had successful cabin heaters on a Cape Dory Typhoon, a Cape Cod Catboat, and now my M15. I always had a good Charlie Noble for each, and I believe that using an external combustion air source is counterproductive to one of the benefits of cabin heat: Any vented, internal combustion heater lowers the relative humidity in the cabin by raising the cabin temperature. I used natural oak charcoal for fuel on the first two, and Sterno "canned heat" on my current heater which had to be built smaller for the smaller cabin size. Solar powered cabin ventilation provide more than enough combustion air. John R. Butler theoldcat(a)cox.net First M15 was "Joy", '83 #264 Now sail "Rejoyce!", '86 #361

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Re: M_Boats: small cabin heaters
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

On a trip down part of the Colorado River in November a couple of years ago - we decided the coolest invention ever was polar fleece type material - socks, pants, vests, jackets and sleeping bag liners. Forget fires they are not safe. I personally can't worry about proper ventilation when I am so tired it is all I can do to climb into a sleeping bag (plastic fill - no down for me). Be careful next fall. GO In a message dated 6/10/2009 4:45:31 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, haudsley(a)tranquility.net writes: One thing about any kind of heater that burns fuel, used inside the cabin without a vent......and that could include something as simple as a candle, is that in addition to carbon monoxide and depletion of oxygen, all of them produce water vapor. Unvented, moisture is going to accumulate inside the cabin, condensing on anything cool. Given enough time at this, damp can turn to wet as moisture starts to condense on the cold surfaces. Most of us lose almost a quart of water each night through our skin and breath alone. Cooped up in a tight cabin, even with no heat, things are going to get damp. Vented heat will help. Unvented heat will only make it worse. That even applies to a guy buried in a sleeping bag with no heat. Keep the cabin somewhat open so the water can get out. Unless you can find a vented source of heat, I'd stick with a really warm sleeping bag, fleece or better, wool clothing, wool socks, etc. When you are actually up and around, something as simple as your cook stove will take off some of the chill. And keep the whole thing well vented to let the water vapor out. On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:23 PM, GILASAILR(a)aol.com wrote: > I have an Origo heater (and stove) and they work great, not as > hi-tech as > Sean's heater, but takes the chill off and then you slip into a good > sleeping bag! We have used it in the cockpit on a marathon January > distance race! > Huddled around the Origo like a campfire on the cockpit sole! You can > also > dry your socks on the thing, heat tortillas, and brew a good cup of > tea - > What a machine! > > DO NOT CLOSE UP THE CABIN!! > > I sail where it is warm, lucky I am that way. > > Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. > > GO > > > > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 8:25:43 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > hammerguy(a)bellsouth.net writes: > > David: > > I'd never do it without a CO monitor of some sort... they are fairly > inexpensive now, especially compared to the cost of a casket... MAN, > those things are pricey! > > I've heard that Origo's alcohol heaters work well. I've got one of > their unpressurized stoves, and it's a quality unit. > > Be SAFE, BG > > Brian Gilbert > Author, Fix It And Sail, The Complete Trailer Sailer > > On Jun 8, 2009, at 6:47 PM, > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > wrote: > >> Message: 7 >> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:53:08 -0600 >> From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson(a)msn.com> >> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: M_Boats: Cabin heater on an M17? >> Message-ID: <BLU147-DAV10B033D5FA92AA8EEE7A2DAC470(a)phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Having just read the latest Small Craft Advisor, where a Sam Devlin >> built >> boat near M17 size has a solid fuel heater, I am wondering if anyone >> has >> tried putting a cabin heater in their 17. I was able to sail into >> mid-November last year, on a reservoir near Denver. My last of >> several fall >> overnights was Nov 16. I was fine sleeping, yet could really have >> used some >> heat (that was safe) when I up and about in the cabin. The frost >> all over >> the cockpit and boat disappeared in the sun, of course. I think a >> cabin >> heater might extend my sailing season. My first sail in April was >> just >> after a big snow, too. And I think I see a place for Charley >> Noble. Any >> ideas or experiences out there, especially from those of you in the >> higher >> latitudes? Fall will come in time, I fear. David (M17 >> #393) > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322977x1201367197/aol? > redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx? > sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell’s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=htt… 5566094%3B37864358%3Bv)

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Re: M_Boats: small cabin heaters
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

I agree. We've used a variety of heating methods (heaters, stoves, candles, etc.) and found out the hard way about ventilation. Now we use the "good sleeping bag" method and the cook stove when we're up & about. Our cook stove will heat up the entire cabin very quickly. sal In a message dated 6/10/2009 5:45:31 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, haudsley(a)tranquility.net writes: One thing about any kind of heater that burns fuel, used inside the cabin without a vent......and that could include something as simple as a candle, is that in addition to carbon monoxide and depletion of oxygen, all of them produce water vapor. Unvented, moisture is going to accumulate inside the cabin, condensing on anything cool. Given enough time at this, damp can turn to wet as moisture starts to condense on the cold surfaces. Most of us lose almost a quart of water each night through our skin and breath alone. Cooped up in a tight cabin, even with no heat, things are going to get damp. Vented heat will help. Unvented heat will only make it worse. That even applies to a guy buried in a sleeping bag with no heat. Keep the cabin somewhat open so the water can get out. Unless you can find a vented source of heat, I'd stick with a really warm sleeping bag, fleece or better, wool clothing, wool socks, etc. When you are actually up and around, something as simple as your cook stove will take off some of the chill. And keep the whole thing well vented to let the water vapor out. On Jun 9, 2009, at 10:23 PM, GILASAILR(a)aol.com wrote: > I have an Origo heater (and stove) and they work great, not as > hi-tech as > Sean's heater, but takes the chill off and then you slip into a good > sleeping bag! We have used it in the cockpit on a marathon January > distance race! > Huddled around the Origo like a campfire on the cockpit sole! You can > also > dry your socks on the thing, heat tortillas, and brew a good cup of > tea - > What a machine! > > DO NOT CLOSE UP THE CABIN!! > > I sail where it is warm, lucky I am that way. > > Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. > > GO > > > > > In a message dated 6/9/2009 8:25:43 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, > hammerguy(a)bellsouth.net writes: > > David: > > I'd never do it without a CO monitor of some sort... they are fairly > inexpensive now, especially compared to the cost of a casket... MAN, > those things are pricey! > > I've heard that Origo's alcohol heaters work well. I've got one of > their unpressurized stoves, and it's a quality unit. > > Be SAFE, BG > > Brian Gilbert > Author, Fix It And Sail, The Complete Trailer Sailer > > On Jun 8, 2009, at 6:47 PM, > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > wrote: > >> Message: 7 >> Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:53:08 -0600 >> From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson(a)msn.com> >> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: M_Boats: Cabin heater on an M17? >> Message-ID: <BLU147-DAV10B033D5FA92AA8EEE7A2DAC470(a)phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Having just read the latest Small Craft Advisor, where a Sam Devlin >> built >> boat near M17 size has a solid fuel heater, I am wondering if anyone >> has >> tried putting a cabin heater in their 17. I was able to sail into >> mid-November last year, on a reservoir near Denver. My last of >> several fall >> overnights was Nov 16. I was fine sleeping, yet could really have >> used some >> heat (that was safe) when I up and about in the cabin. The frost >> all over >> the cockpit and boat disappeared in the sun, of course. I think a >> cabin >> heater might extend my sailing season. My first sail in April was >> just >> after a big snow, too. And I think I see a place for Charley >> Noble. Any >> ideas or experiences out there, especially from those of you in the >> higher >> latitudes? Fall will come in time, I fear. David (M17 >> #393) > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322977x1201367197/aol? > redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx? > sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell’s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=htt… 8%3Bv)

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Cabin heater for the old cat
by David C. Patterson 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

GO, thanks for the mention of the Origo as a heater. Having it in the cockpit would have helped my coldest sail ever this spring. When I got back in the car and warmed up, I recall thinking that if I had a tarp over my lap, heater under, and my head and torso out.what a warm way to sail on a cold day! Have to be careful not to have something burst into flame or course. Anyway, thanks for the possibility of a cockpit heater. John, I too would love to see photos of your M15 installation, or just a description with some detail. Where have you put the Charlie Noble? Thanks for the info. And for the reminder about a solar vent. David Message: 4 Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:09:33 -0500 From: "John R. Butler" <theoldcat(a)cox.net> To: Boats Montgomery <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: cabin heaters Message-ID: <0B18314C-49D6-4728-A00D-8965457BD79A(a)cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I have had successful cabin heaters on a Cape Dory Typhoon, a Cape Cod Catboat, and now my M15. I always had a good Charlie Noble for each, and I believe that using an external combustion air source is counterproductive to one of the benefits of cabin heat: Any vented, internal combustion heater lowers the relative humidity in the cabin by raising the cabin temperature. I used natural oak charcoal for fuel on the first two, and Sterno "canned heat" on my current heater which had to be built smaller for the smaller cabin size. Solar powered cabin ventilation provide more than enough combustion air. John R. Butler theoldcat(a)cox.net First M15 was "Joy", '83 #264 Now sail "Rejoyce!", '86 #361

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Cabin Heater
by Rick Langer 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Hi John, I'd also would like to see some pictures of your M15 setup if you have any. Thanks, Rick M15 #337 Bluebird Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:10:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Doug Kelch <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: cabin heaters Message-ID: <645877.88639.qm(a)web58702.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 John, Do you have any pictures and or discriptions of your M15 installation? Thanks Doug Kelch M310G "Seas the Day" --- On Wed, 6/10/09, John R. Butler <theoldcat(a)cox.net> wrote: From: John R. Butler <theoldcat(a)cox.net> Subject: M_Boats: cabin heaters To: "Boats Montgomery" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 10:09 AM ??? I have had successful cabin heaters on a Cape Dory Typhoon, a Cape Cod Catboat, and now my M15.? I always had a good Charlie Noble for each, and I believe that using an external combustion air source is counterproductive to one of the benefits of cabin heat: Any vented, internal combustion heater lowers the relative humidity in the cabin by raising the cabin temperature. ??? I used natural oak charcoal for fuel on the first two, and Sterno "canned heat" on my current heater which had to be built smaller for the smaller cabin size. ??? Solar powered cabin ventilation provide more than enough combustion air. ???John R. Butler theoldcat(a)cox.net First M15 was "Joy", '83 #264 Now sail "Rejoyce!", '86 #361

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Heater on an M17
by David C. Patterson 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Brian and others, thanks for the conscientious safety tips. I have the CO monitor necessity clear already, and actually some if not all of the propane cabin heaters by SIG and others have oxygen depletion cut-offs and air source arrangements not unlike modern building furnaces on land. Even the (non-marine) Little Buddy from Northern Tools has the oxygen depletion cut-off. And of course ventilation is a necessity. My curiosity (and hope) is that someone has installed a heater, and can give me a sense of placement, venting, any considerations toward or away from solid fuel vs. propane in terms of use and/or convenience, problems to avoid on the cabin top, and so on. Anyway, I hope someone has. If not, I'll post something when I make my choices. Enjoy the sailing season, David M17 #393

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Re: M_Boats: cabin heaters
by Doug Kelch 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

John, Do you have any pictures and or discriptions of your M15 installation? Thanks Doug Kelch M310G "Seas the Day" --- On Wed, 6/10/09, John R. Butler <theoldcat(a)cox.net> wrote: From: John R. Butler <theoldcat(a)cox.net> Subject: M_Boats: cabin heaters To: "Boats Montgomery" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 10:09 AM I have had successful cabin heaters on a Cape Dory Typhoon, a Cape Cod Catboat, and now my M15. I always had a good Charlie Noble for each, and I believe that using an external combustion air source is counterproductive to one of the benefits of cabin heat: Any vented, internal combustion heater lowers the relative humidity in the cabin by raising the cabin temperature. I used natural oak charcoal for fuel on the first two, and Sterno "canned heat" on my current heater which had to be built smaller for the smaller cabin size. Solar powered cabin ventilation provide more than enough combustion air. John R. Butler theoldcat(a)cox.net First M15 was "Joy", '83 #264 Now sail "Rejoyce!", '86 #361 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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