June 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 03 Jun '09

03 Jun '09

I too am quite impressed at Jerry's involvement in his creations. sal In a message dated 6/3/2009 9:20:32 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, wesi(a)comcast.net writes: Jerry, I'm in Windsor the boat is on the Peninsula south of San Francisco. The cracking looks minor and fresh, about the size of a silver dollar on both sides of the keel right where it joins the hull and directly above the rear keel roller. Unfortunately I couldn't see that area from inside the boat. The cockpit lockers are both intact and haven't had the bottoms removed. The owner is a great guy but older and hasn't sailed the boat for quite a while and his memory isn't what it once was.. He doesn't think he trailed it without a rear strap but I think he probably did trail it with the old Evinrude outboard on the bracket. The boat is sitting kind of off the rollers and looks like it is pretty much supported on the high part of the rear roller. I can't say how great it is to have 30 year old boats where the original builder (and designer) takes an active interest in the boats and their owners. I know that would be a long trip for you but if you have the time and inclination to see the boat I could arrange it and of course compensate you for your time and expenses. You can, if you would like, contact me off this forum at wesi(a)comcast.net or call at 707-837-7564. Thanks for all your interest and these great boats, Ken Wheeler ----- Original Message ----- From: "jerry" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 6:07 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) > Ken, are you in CA? By any chance is this boat around Sacatomatoes? I > wouldn't mind taking a look at it. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Wheeler" <wesi(a)comcast.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:17 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) > > >> Hi Bill, Good to hear from you and I appreciate your thoughts and help. >> This boat doesn't have the cut-outs in the cockpit lockers and I was >> wondering if I could in through there. From what you say it looks like >> they area of possible damage would be accessible if I cut out the locker >> bottoms. I can't figure out how he has been stepping the mast without the >> rear mast crutch. Like I said he hasn't sailed the boat for a long time >> and it may just be that it has been misplaced. I think the boat would >> need some extensive repairs before it could be sailed but I am glad to >> get the opinions of more experienced M15 sailors. >> Thanks, Ken >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bill "C" Day" <bill(a)gotrain.org> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:33 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: (no subject) >> >> >>> x-authenticated : Sender SMTP authenticated by smtp.gotrain.org >>> X-XM-SPF: >>> eid=;;;mid=;;;hst=mx03.mta.xmission.com;;;ip=69.54.158.25;;;frm=bill(a)gotrain.org;;;spf=none >>> X-XM-DomainKey: >>> sender_domain=gotrain.org;;;sender=bill(a)gotrain.org;;;status=no >>> signature >>> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 69.54.158.25 >>> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bill(a)gotrain.org >>> X-Spam-DCC: XMission; sa03 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 >>> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on >>> sa03.xmission.com >>> X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.4 required=8.0 >>> tests=BAYES_00,DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE, >>> MISSING_HB_SEP,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG,XM_Body_Dirty_Words >>> autolearn=disabled >>> version=3.2.5 >>> X-Spam-Combo: ;For and about Montgomery Sailboats >>> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >>> X-Spam-Relay-Country: XX US >>> X-Spam-Report: * 2.5 MISSING_HB_SEP Missing blank line between message >>> header and body >>> * 0.0 T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG BODY: T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG >>> * -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% >>> * [score: 0.0000] >>> * -0.0 DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE Not listed in DCC >>> * [sa03 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1] >>> * 0.5 XM_Body_Dirty_Words Contains a dirty word >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Help with M15 keel damage >>> X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:26:12 +0000) >>> X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mx03.mta.xmission.com) >>> >>> Hi Ken, >>> >>> Congratulations on selling the 17, and hope you find a nice 15. >>> >>> To answer your questions, as well as I can. >>> >>> 1. Never seen damage like this before. Sounds like it may have >>> sustained some extensive structural problems. I would have a boat >>> surveyor look at the damage, if you are seriously considering this boat. >>> It might be more trouble than it's worth. >>> >>> 2. You should be able to see the inside of the hull where the keel >>> joins it by looking in the cockpit storage areas. On my boat, they're >>> both cut out and you can see the inner hull on both sides. Some 15's >>> have shallow storage compartments, and the only way to see the inside of >>> the hull where the keel joins is to Lie on the cabin sole and use a >>> flashlight and a mirror, probably on a stick. The cracks on the outer >>> hull might show up on the inside if the damage was really severe. That >>> might be a reason to avoid this boat, unless you're prepared for a big >>> repair job. The price might help make your decision here. >>> >>> 3. Yes. That depression should be there. That's the 15's version of a >>> bilge. It's also a good wine cellar, in a tight. >>> >>> 4. The centerboards on all 15's were basically the same, I believe, >>> other than minor construction details. The weight, shape, and method of >>> operation were the same. >>> >>> 5. I'm not sure about the mast crutch, but I think it was optional. >>> Mine came with my boat from the factory, but I think I paid extra for >>> it. I've also seen a lot of home made ones. Mine from the factory, is a >>> straight stainless tube with a "Y" on the top to hold the mast. It >>> slips into the same gudgeons that support the rudder. The front of the >>> mast is supported by a rubber "Y" above the winch on top of an upright >>> structure on the trailer. One way or another, you need a front and rear >>> support for trailering the boat. >>> >>> It sounds to me like this boat was abused, and used in a careless >>> manner. Unless it's really cheap, and you're willing to take on a >>> project boat, I think I'd pass on this one. Of course, you can always >>> make a better decision based on actually looking at the boat, than I can >>> just hearing about it. >>> >>> Either way, good luck, >>> >>> Bill Day >>> M-15, 363, "Gee Whiz!", Ken Wheeler wrote: >>>> Help! >>>> Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked >>>> at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the >>>> keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had >>>> cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly >>>> above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can >>>> figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the >>>> outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. >>>> The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to >>>> be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you >>>> with more experience: >>>> 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? >>>> 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside >>>> anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if >>>> possible. >>>> 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be >>>> filled level with the hull? >>>> 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? >>>> 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This >>>> one doesn't have one along with other missing items. >>>> The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and >>>> can remember some things. >>>> >>>> I appreciate any help you can offer, >>>> Ken from California >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>>> >>>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>> >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************Shop Inspiron, Studio and XPS Laptops at Dell.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222616459x1201464730/aol?redir=htt… oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218145%3B37264238%3Bd)

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Help with M15 keel damage
by Ken Wheeler 03 Jun '09

03 Jun '09

Help! Having sold my M17 I am now looking for a M15 to replace it. I looked at an older M15 today that had keel damage not only at the front of the keel (grounding) and inside the centerboard trunk but also it had cracks at the rear of the keel where the keel joins the hull directly above the rear trailer roller and on both sides. Only thing I can figure is that the boat was transported with no rear straps, the outboard (a 50# brute) attached and that they then hit a large pothole. The boat was setting off the keel rollers and all the weight seemed to be on the high spot of the rear roller. My questions to those of you with more experience: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. The owner is a real nice guy but hasn't sailed the boat for awhile and can remember some things. I appreciate any help you can offer, Ken from California

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Re: M_Boats: Help with M15 keel damage
by W David Scobie 03 Jun '09

03 Jun '09

ken: 1. Has anyone seen damage like this before? that description of damage is new to me. i have read descriptions of Mboat with some bumps in the forward edge of the skeg keel requiring some simple glass and epoxy work ... what you describe seems like a lot of work to fix and structural. 2. Can I access the damage at the rear of the keel from inside anywhere. I would want to patch the outside and reinforce the inside if possible. to access the damage from the rear you would need to cut out the cockpit locker liners AND remove the large block of foam under the cockpit sole. even then ... only a few inches of height is available. one would be 'standing on their head' IF they could fit their body into the locker. i can see that if one really needed to get into a repair rear of the centerboard would require cutting out of a good sized section of cockpit floor. 3. Is the keel well (viewed from inside the boat) not supposed to be filled level with the hull? yes, as described before, this is the bilge. actually, your old M17 is rare in that there was no space to the stern of the centerboard trunk to act as a bilge. 4. Do all the M15s (even the older ones) have thee same centerboard? centerboards are essentially the same size and weight. the 'new' boards are lead and are a bit narrower. the old boards (before the lead transition) are steel covered in fiberglass. see the msog and msogphoto sites for pictures of steel boards receiving repair. 5. Were any of these boats delivered without a rear mast crutch? This one doesn't have one along with other missing items. i think all Mboats come/came with a mast crutch. some seem to be stainless, and others wood (ie, M17 735's is wood and M15s #288's is stainless). the mast of the 15 needs no crutch to raise. the M15s mast needs no help in raising IMO. i can do M17's #375's without mechanical assistance. for both Mboats i use the jib halyard as a 'snubber' to hold the mast until i attach the forestay. the crutch helps i that it keeps the mast level with the cabintop ... making the process a bit less work. ken, the boat you describe sounds like a project that may have BIG structural problems. dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) prior owner of M15 #288 --- On Tue, 6/2/09, Ken Wheeler <wesi(a)comcast.net> wrote: Help!

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