April 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 74, Issue 17
by Randy Watkins 11 Apr '09

11 Apr '09

Outboards, etc. Hello Sandra.. Good questions, etc. I have both a Honda 2, 15" (came with the boat) and a Yamaha 2.5, 15". I use them on a M15 with an adjustable bracket. They both work well, I favor the Yamaha. My personal plan is to sell off the Honda, and keep the Yamaha for freshwater use, and pick up a 3.5, 20" something for salt water sailing. I checked with my local Merc. dealer and he said they have a kit to adapt a small motor to use an external tank for cruising. I'll have to check on that a bit more. Regards, Randy W. M15 "Becca Anne" Texas > From: montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 74, Issue 17 > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:22:44 -0600 > > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Outboard for M15 long 20" or short 15" shaft? (Sandra Anton) > 2. Re: M15 V cleat change ideas (chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net) > 3. Re: New M15 owners (Bill Kaiser) > 4. Re: Outboard for M15 long 20" or short 15" shaft? (W David Scobie) > 5. Re: Outboard for M15 long 20" or short 15" shaft? (Bill Kaiser) > 6. Re: M10 (W David Scobie) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:20:49 -0700 (PDT) > From: Sandra Anton <sailrsandy(a)yahoo.com> > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: M_Boats: Outboard for M15 long 20" or short 15" shaft? > Message-ID: <510079.97986.qm(a)web50807.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Just purchased a Montgomery 15 and would like any recomendations for outboards. I have a Yamah 4 stroke 4 hp but I think it is too heavy. Considering Honda 2 and Yamah 2.5. > Barnegat Bay NJ boater > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:50:57 -0400 > From: "chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net" <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas > Message-ID: <49DF9511.3040905(a)sbcglobal.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi Joe, > > The answer is yes.... I had fairleads on the cam cleats. > > With fairleads, you are not concerned with incoming jib sheet angle, > since the fairlead will than feed the jib sheet directly into the cam cleat. > > Then, if you want to release the jib sheet, you just give the jib sheet > in the cam cleat an upwards yank and it's free to fly - while the jib > sheet still remains in place (did you put a figure eight knot in the end?). > > Jam cleats are fine for hanging fenders but not for a jib sheet where > you want instant - and immediate - release in an emergency situation. > With a jam cleat, if you are hit by a heavy gust, the pull on the jib > sheet just seats the jib sheet more firmly in the "Vee" teeth of the jam > cleat. To release it, your force will have to equal the wind gust > force, plus some more force to unseat the jib sheet from the "Vee" cleat. > > I recognized this during our first sail in our M15, and immediately made > the change to improve the action of the "emergency brake" > > Happy sailing, > > Connie > > > > Joe Murphy wrote: > > Connie, > > Did you use cam cleats with the fairleads?? > > Joe > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 7:59 PM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas > > > > > >> Hi Jared, > >> > >> My M15 originally came with the V jam cleats when I bought it. > >> > >> After a few sails, I immediately found that I hated them...., so I > >> replaced them with cam cleats. > >> > >> Reasons: > >> The V cleats require a lot of force to release the jib sheet- the > >> stronger the gust, the more force you need to release the sheets.. > >> If I get hit with an unseen gust, I want to be able to release the > >> jib sheet instantly and easily, and not have to struggle with a jib > >> sheet jammed into a V cleat. I want to be able to get instant jib > >> sheet release just by jerking the jib sheet out of the cam cleat. > >> > >> So, both jib sheet V cleats were replaced with cam cleats, and > >> thereafter life was pleasant, and jib sheets were instantly > >> releasable, whenever I deemed it necessary. > >> > >> My $0.02 worth > >> > >> Connie > >> ex M15 #400 LEPPO > >> > >> Jared Prindle wrote: > >>> After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib > >>> sheet > >>> V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at > >>> all. I'm > >>> looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original > >>> holes in > >>> the cabin. > >>> Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. > >>> The only > >>> reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones > >>> seem to > >>> be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med > >>> size one > >>> that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V > >>> cleat at > >>> this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one > >>> then not. > >>> > >>> Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. > >>> Use some > >>> Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a > >>> better > >>> yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the > >>> original > >>> holes in the cabin. > >>> > >>> Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like > >>> what's > >>> used on the mainsheet. > >>> > >>> Thanks for your advice. > >>> Jared "Lil p" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >>> > >>> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >> > >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 11:58:02 -0700 > From: Bill Kaiser <whkaiser(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: New M15 owners > Message-ID: > <51e5702f0904101158y2d904991y8d77f49cdb7bb238(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Welcome Jared my wife and I are new M15 owners as of October 2008 did a > Group sail in February the Havasu Poker run Lake Havasu Arizona and several > of the SoCal Potters group came over including Capt Howie. It was a good > time and nice folks would recommend it. > > Bill M15 Desert Dawn Phoenix AZ > > On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Joe Murphy <seagray(a)embarqmail.com> wrote: > > > Welcome Jared! > > I'm sure you will enjoy this group as much as I have over the last year. > > They have an abundant amount of great advice and experience and love to > > brag, brag, brag! > > Good luck with your projects. What ever you are thinking of doing, my bet > > is that someone has done it and twenty others have an opionion on how to do > > it!! > > Joe > > Seafrog M-17 > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jared Prindle" <jared(a)tonyhawk.com> > > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 12:48 PM > > Subject: M_Boats: New M15 owners > > > > > > Hi, I'm not sure if this is the correct way to post a new thread but I'm > >> going for it anyway. > >> My wife and I just purchased a 1984 M15 from a really nice family north of > >> Sacramento. We made a long drive (w/ our 2yr old) up from Oceanside to > >> pick > >> it up last week. We found the boat to be in amazing condition. It was > >> spent > >> it's whole life in fresh water and didn't have a sign of any corrosion > >> anywhere...quite amazing. Everything was in great working condition. Jerry > >> built these boats well. Anyway I just wanted to introduce myself as I'm > >> sure > >> I'll have a lot of questions in the future. I've taken her out once and > >> had > >> a great time but have a few little projects I'd like to do to her in the > >> near future. > >> > >> Jared > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >> > >> Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:09:36 -0700 (PDT) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: Sandra Anton <sailrsandy(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Outboard for M15 long 20" or short 15" shaft? > Message-ID: <578500.67918.qm(a)web38604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > honda 2HP with the long shaft (20"). > ? > SCRED's is an '05 motor and has never, knock on wood, let me down.? the only day i've had difficulty starting the motor was the time i test-sailed the boat before purchase.? 9 out of 10 times the motor starts on the first pull. > ? > i would only think of a different motor, or a larger 2.5 or 3, horsepower was marketed with an external tank option. > ? > anything over 3HP on an M15 is OVERKILL.? 2 HP is just fine 95% of the time. > ? > i motor at 1/2-2/3 throttle and see 3.5+ to knots to a bit over 4kts.? at 1/2 throttle can get up to 1hr 15min of run time between 'fill ups'.? 2/3 throttle run time is around 45 to 50 minutes. > ? > ? > dave scobie > M15 #288 - SCRED > visit Scred's www-site: http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > > > --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Sandra Anton <sailrsandy(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > Just purchased a Montgomery 15 and would like any recomendations for outboards. I have a Yamah 4 stroke 4 hp but I think it is too heavy. Considering Honda 2 and Yamah 2.5. > Barnegat Bay NJ boater > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:12:45 -0700 > From: Bill Kaiser <whkaiser(a)gmail.com> > To: Sandra Anton <sailrsandy(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Outboard for M15 long 20" or short 15" shaft? > Message-ID: > <51e5702f0904101212y64520c4eoae88e9be92cc877(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I have the Honda 2 it starts, gets me in and out of the harbor; haven't > done any ocean cruising where tides and currents could be a factor. Upper > RPMs to push boat at hull speed the Honda is a little noisy IMO > > Bill M15 "Desert Dawn" Phoenix > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Sandra Anton <sailrsandy(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Just purchased a Montgomery 15 and would like any recomendations for > > outboards. I have a Yamah 4 stroke 4 hp but I think it is too heavy. > > Considering Honda 2 and Yamah 2.5. > > Barnegat Bay NJ boater > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:22:38 -0700 (PDT) > From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M10 > Message-ID: <694546.55074.qm(a)web38606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > 20+ years ago i sailed and rowed MANY miles in a minto. > > the minto (aka, rich passage minto and/or kent ranger minto) is about the same size and similar external look (different seating setups).? a minto in good condition with NO?sailing rigging will for for $1000-$1500 (reguardless of age).? the sailing package adds another $500+. > ? > knowing jerry and his 'need for speed' i have no doubt the M10 is a great sailer ... and if a boat sails well it is likely to row well (the minto is a GREAT rowboat, tender, and sailer which is why it commands such a high price). > ? > there is a M10 near me here in kent, WA ... Jon Freeman?is restoring one he found in 'rough condition'.? i'm hoping he will allow viewing when he has finished the project. > ? > ? > dave scobie > M15 #288 - SCRED > visit Scred's www-site: http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > ? > ? > --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Bill Kaiser <whkaiser(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > I just bought a 1978 M10 in Phoenix the wood is good needs running rigging > paid $550 hope that wasn't to much. > > Bill M15 Desert Dawn > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 74, Issue 17 > ************************************************ _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Up…

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Winchers
by JDavies104＠aol.com 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

Speaking of jibsheet cleating, does anyone out there have Barton Winchers mounted on their M17 jibsheet winches? I have read mixed reviews - some like them and some don't - and would be interested in the evaluation of actual users on a boat like mine. I think that expectations have a lot to do with opinions, that is, if you expect them to work like self-tailers you're probably going to be disappointed. I would just like to know if they make grinding the winch and cleating the jibsheet any easier when single-handing. I now have the stock jam cleat mounted on the coaming aft of the winch, which is not the handiest position for re-cleating when you're on the high side. Thanks for any opinions. Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L ************** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=htt… %3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62)

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Outboard for M15 long 20" or short 15" shaft?
by Sandra Anton 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

Just purchased a Montgomery 15 and would like any recomendations for outboards. I have a Yamah 4 stroke 4 hp but I think it is too heavy. Considering Honda 2 and Yamah 2.5. Barnegat Bay NJ boater

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Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17
by William Larson 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

Hi Tom, Not to turn this into a political discussion or anything like it, but it's hard to ignore the reason we can't have a vehicle like the efficient diesel Forester in the US. It has to do with oxides of nitrogen limits imposed by our EPA. Never mind the fact that it gets nearly 50 MPG and produces tons of torque. Bill --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> wrote: From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17 To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 10:34 AM Andrei, According to the scale I used, my 2004 M17 and trailer weigh 3000 lb empty with no mast or motor, so I am guessing 3200 lbs with some gear on board. Even if the Pacific trailer is 800 lbs (I have not confirmed that), it is hard to believe that a 1600 lb boat would gain 600 lbs by addition of an electrical system and a boarding ladder. Maybe newer boats have gained some weight (like most Americans), possibly in the keel or centerboard, or maybe the certified scale was wrong. Bob might be able to help us with all this. I have been doing some research on Subaru as tow vehicles, and I find that Foresters in the UK are rated to tow 2000 kg (4400 lb). As nearly as I can tell, the cars are virtually identical to the U.S. imports rated at 2400 lbs. Go figure. UK dealers also sell a diesel Forester with lots of torque that gets 49 mpg (%#@&$#). Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrei Caldararu" <andreic(a)math.wisc.edu> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:16 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17 > I have a question about the towing weight: I thought an M-17 is around 1600 lbs; add about 3-400lbs for the trailer, some more for the gear and motor that brings it to 2000-2400 lbs. But you're saying your rig is closer to 3000-3200 lbs; have I got my numbers wrong? > > I am towing (on flat land) my M-17 with a 4cyl Subaru Outback, 4x4, manual transmission. Works, but I feel I am close to the limit really. > > Andrei. > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! > _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas
by Jared Prindle 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

Thanks for everyone's input regarding the cleats. I'm happy to know there's a place where I can get advice by actual users. Today I will just replace my V-cleats with the original size. Soon I add the camcleats (harken 150 or similar) and probably try out the fairleads as they are inexpensive and it seems easy to try to them out. Easy to remove etc. Jared M15 #280 Lil p

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Re: M_Boats: Honda 2HP 'volume'
by W David Scobie 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

video 'log' i made last year - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/blog.htm?blogentryid=3551990 in the background you can hear, over my pontification, the Honda. throttle was at about 1/2 as i was in no hurry to get back into harbor. dave scobie M15 #288 - SCRED visit Scred's www-site: http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Bill Kaiser <whkaiser(a)gmail.com> wrote: .... Upper RPMs to push boat at hull speed the Honda is a little noisy IMO Bill M15 "Desert Dawn" Phoenix

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Re: M_Boats: Outboard for M15 long 20" or short 15" shaft?
by W David Scobie 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

honda 2HP with the long shaft (20"). SCRED's is an '05 motor and has never, knock on wood, let me down. the only day i've had difficulty starting the motor was the time i test-sailed the boat before purchase. 9 out of 10 times the motor starts on the first pull. i would only think of a different motor, or a larger 2.5 or 3, horsepower was marketed with an external tank option. anything over 3HP on an M15 is OVERKILL. 2 HP is just fine 95% of the time. i motor at 1/2-2/3 throttle and see 3.5+ to knots to a bit over 4kts. at 1/2 throttle can get up to 1hr 15min of run time between 'fill ups'. 2/3 throttle run time is around 45 to 50 minutes. dave scobie M15 #288 - SCRED visit Scred's www-site: http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Sandra Anton <sailrsandy(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Just purchased a Montgomery 15 and would like any recomendations for outboards. I have a Yamah 4 stroke 4 hp but I think it is too heavy. Considering Honda 2 and Yamah 2.5. Barnegat Bay NJ boater

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New M15 owners
by Jared Prindle 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the correct way to post a new thread but I'm going for it anyway. My wife and I just purchased a 1984 M15 from a really nice family north of Sacramento. We made a long drive (w/ our 2yr old) up from Oceanside to pick it up last week. We found the boat to be in amazing condition. It was spent it's whole life in fresh water and didn't have a sign of any corrosion anywhere...quite amazing. Everything was in great working condition. Jerry built these boats well. Anyway I just wanted to introduce myself as I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions in the future. I've taken her out once and had a great time but have a few little projects I'd like to do to her in the near future. Jared

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Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17
by Brian Gilbert 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

Hi Scott: I pull mine with a stock '98 Nissan Frontier, manual trans., 4 cyl. It doesn't like going up the ramp and I feel I'm really reducing the clutch life, but it does get it out of the water. A 6-cyl automatic would be much better. If I ever do any serious distance towing, I plan on renting. Since your trans is older, you might have different results, i.e., more of a slippery clutch. What's the tow rating for your truck... is it a 6 cyl or 4 cyl? My impression is that you'd be cutting it mighty fine, but maybe having the 4x4 would make it work better, or maybe the toyota has lower gear ratios. Maybe even smaller tires would help? (for most folks around Tennessee, a 4x4 truck means huge mud tires, which would reduce your low end power a little) Hope this helps Best BG Brian Gilbert Author, Fix It And Sail, The Complete Trailer Sailer On Apr 9, 2009, at 8:52 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > Does anybody have any experience with towing a M17 with a 1993 ish > Toyota > 4x4, manual transmission. Gross combined weight is 7800 lbs > ( vehicle > weights about 4,200 lbs ) which would probably give me an extra 500 > - 600 > lbs reserve capacity according to the owners manual. However I was > looking > for real world experience. Not interested in going fast up hill; just > looking to make it.

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M-17 interior layouts
by Arnold Sharpe 10 Apr '09

10 Apr '09

Monty Sailors!!! I am the happy owner of M-17 "Little Breeze" for the last 3 years. She is a 1977 model, hull #265 and the interior layout has quarter berths to port and starboard. When spending overnight aboard I find food prep. difficult and am considering converting the port Quarter berth to a little galley of sorts. I have been told that some early Montys were build that way. If anyone out there with a M-17 with a galley (small is it may be) would be so kind as to take a picture or two I would be most appreciative. Regards..Arnold Sharpe

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