July 2008 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Double braided splicing.
by Mark Escovedo 04 Jul '08

04 Jul '08

Hey this link is soooo Cool! Thanks fer sharing Paint Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY ----- Original Message ---- From: "Paint4Real(a)aol.com" <Paint4Real(a)aol.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 6:11:52 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Double braided splicing. Kind of addictive to watch step-by-steps of animated knots and splices: http://www.animatedknots.com/splice/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg& Website=www.animatedknots.com ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Double braided splicing.
by Paint4Real＠aol.com 04 Jul '08

04 Jul '08

Kind of addictive to watch step-by-steps of animated knots and splices: http://www.animatedknots.com/splice/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg& Website=www.animatedknots.com ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

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Re: M_Boats: help with slug order
by JDavies104＠aol.com 04 Jul '08

04 Jul '08

Jerry, Wouldn't this also apply to hank-on headsails relative to foil-mounted furling sails? Rick ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

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PHRF racing
by JDavies104＠aol.com 04 Jul '08

04 Jul '08

Loved my M-17 from the first day I saw her, but now have additional reason to give kudos to the designers. Lynne L has been racing weekly in the Daingerfield Island Sailing Club's Tuesday night PHRF handicap series on the Potomac River, and in spite of being by far the smallest boat in the fleet, with a rusty skipper, only a #2 furling genoa, and leaky slugs, she's holding her own (though far from winning as yet), against 20 ft+ LWL boats. Lotsa fun, since the relative advantage changes with wind strength and point of sail. Starting from not quite dead last in the first races in April, we made it to the top half (just barely, 8/17) of the fleet last week on corrected time. As others have said, with its LWL, weight, and sail area, the M-17 has no business going as fast as it does, but it does! Fantastic boat! Now, if I just had a #1 genoa, or perhaps a Jerry M. for a skipper ... who knows? Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

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Double braided splicing.
by Bruce Ward 04 Jul '08

04 Jul '08

Joe, I have been making double braid eye splices with the instructions in The Marlinspike Sailor book by Hervey Garret Smith for many years now. I highly recommend that you buy this book. It has a great wealth of information on knots and fancywork particular to 3 strand. That said, it also details well the verbatim Samson instructions. I too at the beginning made some waste in learning but once I got the hang of it, things work pretty good. Bruce

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Re: M_Boats: Salvage
by Paint4Real＠aol.com 04 Jul '08

04 Jul '08

In a message dated 7/2/08 6:54:48 PM, GILASAILR(a)aol.com writes: > Can I let the emergency brake off of my neighbors Porsche and claim > salvage > rights? > Yes, you can. But make sure the neighbor isn't a big fan of the Supreme Court's latest ruling on handgun ownership . . . I do suspect that, over the years, a lot of salvage claims have been settled "out of court." Before I laid claim to an unmoored boat, I'd want to make sure that it didn't just come over from the offshore drop-off and is under CG surveillance, or of interest to those two guys over on the dock in black suits on a hot sunny day. Actually, the truth is, I'd never lay claim to anyone else's boat, under any conditions. But I guess in the maritime world, it's just business. I read a judge's account, trying to explain the development of the law, and he noted that ashore, we'd all run into burning buildings to save life and property, and we'd be considered heroes (or fools) for doing so, but we'd never even considering asking for a reward of 55% of the house's value. Completely different perspective at sea . . . where, not incidentally, the salvor is admittedly putting his own vessel at risk. Still . . . 55%?? ************** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

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Re: M_Boats: Where's my halyard?
by Mark Escovedo 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

When I replaced the running rig on "AMY" I tossed the wire/rope halyards into my "old boat stuff" box and switched to double braid halyards. I spliced eyes onto the ends of the halyards and attached them to heavier "Cast" Wichard halyard shackles with a birds head loop, easier to replace than if the eyes were spliced through the shackle. As Amy is 31 years young, and the shackles were original, I thought she'd appreciate the upgrade :) I know I feel better losing those skinny flat shackles. Fair Winds Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY ----- Original Message ---- From: Danelle Landis <anniesark9(a)yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:11:02 AM Subject: M_Boats: Where's my halyard? I took my mom and stepdad sailing for the first time the other evening. My mom is very experienced at sailing, and her husband somewhat, and it turns out that I was really grateful for that crew that day! The sail started with me whining, because we were nearly becalmed. Sails flopping - *boring*. I'd wanted to delight them with the frisky, speedy sailing that my M17 "Ceto" can do. It was strange weather that evening though - warm but with an odd fog bank out in the open water that was shifting and blowing around. Where we were, it was sunny. As we were just talking, wishing for wind, all of a sudden came a perfect 12 or 15 k breeze, and we were happily whooshing along on a beam reach. The breeze was all over the place though, and we chased it around, as it veered wildly. Then we were becalmed again. Then we were zooming on a broad reach for awhile. Then wing-and-wing. It was just weird. Then we turned around to get back to the harbor, and it was the same thing - switching, unstable breezes, but we were able to stay mostly close hauled, pointing up well. It was fun and kept us on our toes. We got close to the harbor, and I was just about to start up the outboard and get the sails dropped when we felt this odd, sudden push of mist-filled wind. Then, BAM, we were hit *hard* by a wall of wind about 30 k - working jib up, main full up, both in tight because we'd been close hauled. My oh-so-helpful mom called out "We're at 40 degrees!" Okay, yes we were laughing and screeching like kids on a rollercoaster, but her husband George, at about 200 pounds, was on the lee side, and his rear was probably 3 inches from the water. He climbed back to the windward side, as I rounded up to lessen the heel a little, we eased the sheets and then we got pushed down to 40 degrees again (thanks Mom, for calling it out! ha ha) I gave in and popped the main, letting it swing out, as the wind was intensifying, and we were closer to shore than I liked. We swung around and went into irons, which was a welcome respite. We sat that way, for a few minutes, way too much wind blasting my poor old sails, while I had George take the helm and I got that outboard (Suzuki 4 hp) down and started faster than I ever have. (It's a little hard for me to get that bracket up and down) I powered us into the wind and my mom and George got the sails down. I've done a lot of thinking since, working out how I would have handled that if I'd been alone. Unfortunately, when my mom lowered the jib, there was NO halyard. At some point, the wimpy little U-shaped shackle had just let go, and I guess the wind pressure had been keeping the sail up. When we were getting the main up to start this sail, I'd been dismayed to see that the same style shackle on the main halyard was all bent and weakened. I'd had to bend it around to get it to work. We hadn't noticed anything wrong with the jib shackle. Now we have to learn how to get the mast down to replace it. Are those thin U-shaped shackles the original hardware for the boat? I have a hard time believing that they were - how would they have held up for 25 years, then break in less than ten outings with us? I'm sure the previous owners encountered odd powerful gusts here and there too. Danelle M17 #378 Ketchikan, AK http://web.mac.com/anniesark9/Site/Sailing_Ceto.html _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Ol' Catboat sailor
by Mark Escovedo 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

Hello, A few emails back one of the older salts out there described sailing a catboat in his earlier days, I'd like to pick your brains if your agreeable. Please contact me off-list I'm a huge fan of catboats and if I were born on the east coast, instead of California, I'm sure I would be sailing one today. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my M17 F/D, But something about catboats pull heavily on my heartstrings. Cheers All! Mark Escovedo M17F/D #103 AMY

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Re: M_Boats: Where's my halyard?
by Danelle Landis 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

Is there a photo of your knot set-up on the msog pages somewhere? This sounds like something I saw a photo of. I'm guessing I'd need all rope halyards? Another item on my "to buy" list... I like the sound of "Amy"'s rigging, with the beefier shackles. Another thing I dislike about the "skinny flat" (Mark E's perfect description) original shackles is the teeny-weeny gripping surface of the pin. Seems like you need tiny-but-superstrong elf fingers to deal with them. Like Tom said "It's only money, right?" :-) Danelle "Ceto" M17 #378 Ketchikan, AK http://web.mac.com/anniesark9/Site/Sailing_Ceto.html ----- Original Message ---- From: "GILASAILR(a)aol.com" <GILASAILR(a)aol.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:05:38 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where's my halyard? Danielle, I have tried and currently use a series of knots to attach my halyards to the sails. Pass the end of the halyard thru the sails head board or thimble, tie a stopper knot (figure eight knot) as close to the end of the halyard as possible then take the knot end and tie an overhand knot around the headboard or the thimble. This looks like a disaster waiting to happen - or you would think you will need your knife to cut the halyard free from the sail - but it works, The halyard does not get bent, lost, clang on the spar, or get hung up in the rigging as a shackle may. It also reduces weight aloft and my bill at the chandlery. I will take pictures if you would like and post them - It is easy and strong. If you desire -a stopper ball can be put on the halyard above the knot to prevent the haly. from running into the sheaves. Take Care, Have Fun GO. LB/GF! M-17 # 316a 'that ain't bad gelcoat -it's "patina"! Team Geezer Racing.....Old and in the Way Arizona Sailing Squadron In a message dated 7/3/2008 9:11:52 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, anniesark9(a)yahoo.com writes: I took my mom and stepdad sailing for the first time the other evening. My mom is very experienced at sailing, and her husband somewhat, and it turns out that I was really grateful for that crew that day! The sail started with me whining, because we were nearly becalmed. Sails flopping - *boring*. I'd wanted to delight them with the frisky, speedy sailing that my M17 "Ceto" can do. It was strange weather that evening though - warm but with an odd fog bank out in the open water that was shifting and blowing around. Where we were, it was sunny. As we were just talking, wishing for wind, all of a sudden came a perfect 12 or 15 k breeze, and we were happily whooshing along on a beam reach. The breeze was all over the place though, and we chased it around, as it veered wildly. Then we were becalmed again. Then we were zooming on a broad reach for awhile. Then wing-and-wing. It was just weird. Then we turned around to get back to the harbor, and it was the same thing - switching, unstable breezes, but we were able to stay mostly close hauled, pointing up well. It was fun and kept us on our toes. We got close to the harbor, and I was just about to start up the outboard and get the sails dropped when we felt this odd, sudden push of mist-filled wind. Then, BAM, we were hit *hard* by a wall of wind about 30 k - working jib up, main full up, both in tight because we'd been close hauled. My oh-so-helpful mom called out "We're at 40 degrees!" Okay, yes we were laughing and screeching like kids on a rollercoaster, but her husband George, at about 200 pounds, was on the lee side, and his rear was probably 3 inches from the water. He climbed back to the windward side, as I rounded up to lessen the heel a little, we eased the sheets and then we got pushed down to 40 degrees again (thanks Mom, for calling it out! ha ha) I gave in and popped the main, letting it swing out, as the wind was intensifying, and we were closer to shore than I liked. We swung around and went into irons, which was a welcome respite. We sat that way, for a few minutes, way too much wind blasting my poor old sails, while I had George take the helm and I got that outboard (Suzuki 4 hp) down and started faster than I ever have. (It's a little hard for me to get that bracket up and down) I powered us into the wind and my mom and George got the sails down. I've done a lot of thinking since, working out how I would have handled that if I'd been alone. Unfortunately, when my mom lowered the jib, there was NO halyard. At some point, the wimpy little U-shaped shackle had just let go, and I guess the wind pressure had been keeping the sail up. When we were getting the main up to start this sail, I'd been dismayed to see that the same style shackle on the main halyard was all bent and weakened. I'd had to bend it around to get it to work. We hadn't noticed anything wrong with the jib shackle. Now we have to learn how to get the mast down to replace it. Are those thin U-shaped shackles the original hardware for the boat? I have a hard time believing that they were - how would they have held up for 25 years, then break in less than ten outings with us? I'm sure the previous owners encountered odd powerful gusts here and there too. Danelle M17 #378 Ketchikan, AK http://web.mac.com/anniesark9/Site/Sailing_Ceto.html _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Where's my halyard?
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

Danielle, I have tried and currently use a series of knots to attach my halyards to the sails. Pass the end of the halyard thru the sails head board or thimble, tie a stopper knot (figure eight knot) as close to the end of the halyard as possible then take the knot end and tie an overhand knot around the headboard or the thimble. This looks like a disaster waiting to happen - or you would think you will need your knife to cut the halyard free from the sail - but it works, The halyard does not get bent, lost, clang on the spar, or get hung up in the rigging as a shackle may. It also reduces weight aloft and my bill at the chandlery. I will take pictures if you would like and post them - It is easy and strong. If you desire -a stopper ball can be put on the halyard above the knot to prevent the haly. from running into the sheaves. Take Care, Have Fun GO. LB/GF! M-17 # 316a 'that ain't bad gelcoat -it's "patina"! Team Geezer Racing.....Old and in the Way Arizona Sailing Squadron In a message dated 7/3/2008 9:11:52 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, anniesark9(a)yahoo.com writes: I took my mom and stepdad sailing for the first time the other evening. My mom is very experienced at sailing, and her husband somewhat, and it turns out that I was really grateful for that crew that day! The sail started with me whining, because we were nearly becalmed. Sails flopping - *boring*. I'd wanted to delight them with the frisky, speedy sailing that my M17 "Ceto" can do. It was strange weather that evening though - warm but with an odd fog bank out in the open water that was shifting and blowing around. Where we were, it was sunny. As we were just talking, wishing for wind, all of a sudden came a perfect 12 or 15 k breeze, and we were happily whooshing along on a beam reach. The breeze was all over the place though, and we chased it around, as it veered wildly. Then we were becalmed again. Then we were zooming on a broad reach for awhile. Then wing-and-wing. It was just weird. Then we turned around to get back to the harbor, and it was the same thing - switching, unstable breezes, but we were able to stay mostly close hauled, pointing up well. It was fun and kept us on our toes. We got close to the harbor, and I was just about to start up the outboard and get the sails dropped when we felt this odd, sudden push of mist-filled wind. Then, BAM, we were hit *hard* by a wall of wind about 30 k - working jib up, main full up, both in tight because we'd been close hauled. My oh-so-helpful mom called out "We're at 40 degrees!" Okay, yes we were laughing and screeching like kids on a rollercoaster, but her husband George, at about 200 pounds, was on the lee side, and his rear was probably 3 inches from the water. He climbed back to the windward side, as I rounded up to lessen the heel a little, we eased the sheets and then we got pushed down to 40 degrees again (thanks Mom, for calling it out! ha ha) I gave in and popped the main, letting it swing out, as the wind was intensifying, and we were closer to shore than I liked. We swung around and went into irons, which was a welcome respite. We sat that way, for a few minutes, way too much wind blasting my poor old sails, while I had George take the helm and I got that outboard (Suzuki 4 hp) down and started faster than I ever have. (It's a little hard for me to get that bracket up and down) I powered us into the wind and my mom and George got the sails down. I've done a lot of thinking since, working out how I would have handled that if I'd been alone. Unfortunately, when my mom lowered the jib, there was NO halyard. At some point, the wimpy little U-shaped shackle had just let go, and I guess the wind pressure had been keeping the sail up. When we were getting the main up to start this sail, I'd been dismayed to see that the same style shackle on the main halyard was all bent and weakened. I'd had to bend it around to get it to work. We hadn't noticed anything wrong with the jib shackle. Now we have to learn how to get the mast down to replace it. Are those thin U-shaped shackles the original hardware for the boat? I have a hard time believing that they were - how would they have held up for 25 years, then break in less than ten outings with us? I'm sure the previous owners encountered odd powerful gusts here and there too. Danelle M17 #378 Ketchikan, AK http://web.mac.com/anniesark9/Site/Sailing_Ceto.html _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

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