February 2006 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: Epoxy pricing & sources
by Brian Gilbert 11 Feb '06

11 Feb '06

I hope I don't offend.... I know this is semi-commercial, but I've used these guys several times, they do a great job. Have you ever heard of Raka? The sell a 1 1/2 gallon epoxy kit for $87. It's a tiny company, but the folks there are very helpful and friendly, they ship quick, and it's a good product- certainly as good as West. The resin is a very low-blush formula. But be warned, it does get really hot if mixed in quantity, like more than three "pumps" worth... ALWAYS BUY THE PUMPS! www.raka.com I've no connection with them, just passing along info. Oh, and installing lead... you might get a slightly lower CG if you had some solid blocks or fist-sized chunks of lead that could be bedded in a mix of shot and epoxy. But then again, I'm only an armchair ballast-installer Best BG -- Brian Gilbert Marine Media Author, Fix It and Sail (423)876-1016 3404 Hartford Drive Chattanooga, TN 37415 www.sailingsmall.com on 2/10/06 11:33 AM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com at montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > Epxoy runs close to $115/gallon. Polyester is only $23. > I will build a "dam" along the bottom edge of the holes in the keel that will > be above the level that I am going to install the lead.

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Re: Epoxy pricing & sources
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 11 Feb '06

11 Feb '06

hmmmm, never gave much thought to the shape of the ballast, good point Todd. Just for grins I'll have to take a cup of the old ballast and a cup of the new (minus the resin) and see how they compare. That's what I like about you guys.....always thinking!!!

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Re: M_Boats: lead installation
by chbenneck＠juno.com 10 Feb '06

10 Feb '06

Hi Rachel, Did you ever buy that Rhodes Meridian we discussed awhile ago? If you did, how's the rebuild; refurbishing, coming along? Connie

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lead installation
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 10 Feb '06

10 Feb '06

Is the keel sealed up???? Well that's the $10,000.00 question, and my chore to have handled before any lead goes in. Just got back from good ol' West Marine with a gallon of blue bilge cleaner. I'm going to go pour it into the sump in the keel and see what happens. Best scenerio, I'll go out there tomorrow and it will all still be there and the sump will clean up spotless, OR if it leaks down through into the keel I'll know that I have an issue to deal with there. I'm expecting it to be OK but just want to be sure. I suspect that the water got into the keel right at the union of the keel trunk wall and the bottom of the keel itself. There appears to to be a split there in the fiberglass that has expanded, probably from the steel ballast rusting out. Either way I am going to fill the split with high density filler and then glass it up. There were some drips coming from the front of the keel slot in that area after the boat was put on the stands and was sitting a little nose low. The other possibilities, although I think they are small, is that the water got in through one of the pins' holes. The pins that were in there were not glassed over. You could actually touch the end of the bronze pin flush with the outside of the keel. Not sure if that's original. All the other Montys I've seen have always had the ends of the pins recessed a little and filled over with either glass or something like 5200. That's what I'll do with the new pins to alleviate that problem. Of course that doesn't solve the problem if the pin in leaking on the inside where it leaves the keel cavity to cross the gap of the keel trunk. Not sure what I'll do there if that seems to be a problem. Or, did the blistering let water all the way into the compartment. I don't think so. Even the biggest blisters did not go all the way through the laminate. They were pockets of water (acid) between two layers of the laminate that they had pushed apart, but still had solid laminate behind them. As far as mixing the lead and resin first before installing it. Yes, I have considered that but I think that would make it much more difficult to get the ballast to flow in where I want it and also I think that the ballast would not be packed nearly as tight becuase there'd be more resin in the mix. As long as enough resin penetrates to make the mass stable I'll be happy. If a few areas remain un-soaked but are locked between "soaked" areas I think it will be OK. BUT .....it remains an option to try it that way and if the first way isn't going well, maybe we'll give that a try. It's hard to describe if your not looking at it, but getting the lead into all the areas I want it to go will be challenging. Sounds like the thermal imaging thermometer would be a cool tool. I don't have one, but I think we'll be able to fudge along without it. We'll just make sure to go slow enough to let stuff kick before we move on. Thanks fo the input gang

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lead installation
by Rick Langer 10 Feb '06

10 Feb '06

Sean, I've been following you "massive" project with much interest. Concerning the voids in the original ballast lay-up, they were probably responsible for the steel shot rusting to the extent that it did. If that shot were completely encapsulated in resin it probably wouldn't have rusted. I would not recommend polyester resin for your lead shot implant. I've built a number of boats (currently working on a "Beach Pea"), but I've only used polyester resin once. The odor was so strong that I was convince my lungs were instantly rotting. I will never use it again, not even if it were free. Even after it cured it continued to outgas. It got so that I couldn't work on that boat or even get near it. After the boat was painted the smell did disappear. However, I have noticed a strong polyester smell in the foreword most locker on my M15, twenty-one years after manufacture. That stuff is downright nasty. Maybe a less expensive epoxy would work well for your application. I get epoxy for Joe Merton; http://www.mertons.com/index.html He has System Three for about $375 for (6) gallons. There are epoxies much cheaper yet, like Raka: http://www.raka.com/EpoxyPricing.html They have (6) gallons for $265. There are others also which are even cheaper and being that you're using it as a filler only would be adequate. Rick Langer M15 #337 "Bluebird"

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lead installation
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 10 Feb '06

10 Feb '06

The lead is in 25 lb bags od "shot" just like what you'd fill a shotgun cartridge with. 48 of them. Installing it is gonna be fun. When the boat was built it is my understanding that the ballast was installed from the top of the keel cavity and then resin allowed to soak down through it. One thing that I noticed when removing the ballast is that there were large areas where the ballast was not resin soaked. I was able to just scoop out the punchings. I'm sure that this wasn't really a problem 'cause the cavity was filled right to the top so there wasn't any issue of the ballast being able to move around. I suspect that when the resin was poured over the ballast it found certain paths to travel through it and dispersed itself out as good as it could, but the punchings were packed pretty solid, so there were areas where the resin didn't go. Why does this mater? Well, I'm not sure if it does BUT....I won't be filling the entire void in the cavity with ballast. The lead is much denser than the steel so I expect some space left at the top of the cavity after its all in. Because of that I really want to try to make it as much of a single "mass" as possible. I really don't want to cut throught the floor of the cabin if I dont have to. So here's my plan. I plan to layer the ballast in in 2-3inch layers at a time and soak them in polyester resin. I usually use West System epoxy for everything. This application , however, is just to glue the shot together and is going to take a fair amount of resin. Epxoy runs close to $115/gallon. Polyester is only $23. I will build a "dam" along the bottom edge of the holes in the keel that will be above the level that I am going to install the lead. Then I am going to lay in a 2-3 inch layer and then resin soak it. I'll let that resin kick into the gel state before I go for the next "dam", layer, and resin soak. I am hoping that that will also allow the resin to dissapate some of the heat it will be generating as it cures. I'm anticipating the difficulty to increase as the levels get higher just due to being pinched between the top of the dam and the bottom of the hull for work space. I think I make a long funnel arrangement to pour the shot and resin in with, but we'll have to see how it works out as it goes along. Certainly there will be some amount of additional space left above the lead ballast. Do I just leave it empty? I don't know. I could fill it with 2 part expanding foam but that stuff is a sponge if water ever gets in there. Anyone got any ideas on that? Right now I'm leaning towards just leaving it empty. I guess that bridge is still a ways down the road. I've still got some work to do before installing the lead. I'm going to run a test by pouring colored water into the bilge and see if any makes it down into the keel from above. Also there's some glasswork I want to do to the bottom of the keel slot. Actually its probably a good thing 'cause all the while the boat and keel will continue to breathe the 10% humidity, Arizona, 80 degree air. That can't be a bad thing. I just keep telling myself "take your time and do it right.........................then I say San Juans! San Juans! San Juans are slipping away!!!" hahaha. I'll post pics on the site as progress is made. Other projects such as the swing keel refurb, rudder repair, and bottom job are all continuing to make progress as well.

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RE: M_Boats: Ahoy from LEPPO in Vermont
by Hughston, Larry 10 Feb '06

10 Feb '06

Dave and Martha, great to see another happy Monty owner. When you can send us all some images of the boat "that Connie built" with all of his improvements. I have much left to do with my M-15. Fair Winds. ----Larry H. in Sacramento -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+larry.hughston=dgs.ca.gov(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+larry.hughston=dgs.ca.gov@mailman.xmission. com] On Behalf Of Nimrod the Cat Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:56 PM To: MSOG Board Subject: M_Boats: Ahoy from LEPPO in Vermont We are the lucky people who bought LEPPO from Connie Benneck. We picked her up three weeks ago, and have had her out three times on Lake Champlain, once in no wind, and twice in too much wind. So it averages out... She came safely home to Vermont, and will be teaching us a lot about sailing over the next few years. We were glad to get a boat that was in such good shape, and with all of Connie's clever and well-done improvements, we couldn't go wrong. We are happy to have this website as a resource, and will use it quite a bit. We came upon it when researching a Com-pac 16, and were taken with how many sources said look for a Montgomery instead. Dave and Martha Wales and LEPPO Montpelier, VT _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Update is complete at Photo Site
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 09 Feb '06

09 Feb '06

One Thousand and fourteen high resolution photos plus that many thumbnail photos and six hundred plus sail insignias Have a look - start at the What's New Page Bill _http://www.msogphotosite.com/WhasNew.html_ (http://www.msogphotosite.com/WhasNew.html)

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Monty Newsletter
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 09 Feb '06

09 Feb '06

well, I'm 1200lbs of lead heavier.....and by the time I got home with lead, gas, food, etc. right at $1000 lighter! This better work or I'm gonna be living on that boat!

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Re: M_Boats: Monty Newsletter
by Rmceagrella＠aol.com 09 Feb '06

09 Feb '06

In a message dated 2/8/2006 4:50:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nebwest2(a)aol.com writes: gas, food, etc. right at $1000 lighter! This better work or I'm gonna be living on that boat! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission. Your an inspiration Sean! You know I feel your pain. Perhaps we should call you "Dauntless".

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