March 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Boats: milk crates
by Rick Langer 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Hey Connie, that's a good idea and I can get two for the price of one. Good old Yankee shrewdness. How would you attach a piece of say 1/4" plywood to the half crate? Thanks, Rick > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:47:28 -0500 > From: chbenneck(a)juno.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: milk crates > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <20050322.152156.2568.5.chbenneck(a)juno.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Rick, > > How about cutting a regular square milk crate in half and making one to > the size you want? > > C

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Re: M_Boats: Delta anchors
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Howard, I'd love some input on how your delta has performed over the years, and what kinds of bottoms it usually works in. I'm trying to find the right anchor for a 16' sailboat I'm building. It needs to be able to handle mud, rocks, clay, and sand. If my dreams come true, it'll need to be a good bet in weeds, too. What do you think? Would your delta be up to the task on such a variety of bottoms? Cheers Steve Tyree P-15 Piragua Thimble Flatbote a building In a message dated 3/21/2005 9:08:30 AM Central Standard Time, haudsley(a)tranquility.net writes: I don't know how much rode everyone is carrying, but I carry a 9 pound Delta and about the same weight Fortress, and each has a rode of 20' of 1/4" chain and 150' of 3/8" nylon and it all goes in a small crate like container that is about half the size of a regular milk crate.

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Re: FW: M_Boats: Rudder pins...
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Cool! I've always used oil for dispersing heat when drilling steel, never water. I guess the big thing is keeping the bit cool. Once it's cooked, you are too; no temper, no edge, no go. Steve Tyree In a message dated 3/22/2005 7:53:36 AM Central Standard Time, fthrong(a)juno.com writes: Just an aside .... The trick to drilling stainless is to keep it wet while drilling either by a small stream of water from a garden sprayer for large parts or by being submerged in a water bath for small parts. (Some friends and I built a 55' x 14' houseboat for Lake Powell completely out of stainless ... just imagine how many holes were drilled! Once this trick was learned we never tried to drill stainless without water.) Fred Dulce M17 #300

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Re: M_Boats: Sails
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

In a message dated 3/22/2005 4:39:39 PM Central Standard Time, WilliamE(a)peoriaaz.com writes: I'm thinking of buying a barely used International 420 main (P:16.55 and E:6.3 to 7.0) for my M-15 (P:16.83 & E:7.83). Has anyone tried this, and is it a bad idea? If its not a bad idea, does anyone have any ideas about getting the "420" off? Cover it with vinyl. Go to a sign shop and tell them what you need. The vinyl could have the Monty logo etc. on it. Steve Tyree Husband of the Sign Goddess

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Re: M_Boats: Re: outboard fuel shutoff
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

When I rebuilt my Tohatsu 2.5 (seized up due to dead water pump; ignorant me) the bottom end was oily. The bearings consist of ball and needle bearings. I'd say that you'd have to run one a long time to hurt the bottom end (a friend of mine ran a 2-stroke inboard most of one season on straight gas before realizing it was a 2-stroke after it finally seized up. It smokes a lot now, but still runs). The lean burn issue is less clear. On a 2-stroke, there's not much to burn, and the parts in question have a lot of relative mass, thus could absorb a lot of heat in the short term. On a 4-stroke, the exhaust valve would be in danger, but the motor should be a lot cooler than a full throttle situation, and again, we're talking about a no load, short term situation. I frequently run 2-stroke equipment dry. No ill effects so far. Come to think of it, the lowly lawn mower can expect to be run dry while in working mode, again and again. Hey, wait a minute, so can outboards! How many of us have forgotten to open the gas vent? (Me.) All that said, if your motor melts into an expensive blob, not my fault! I hereby limit my liability to $0.02 ;^) Steve Tyree grease monkey and shade tree mechanic In a message dated 3/22/2005 12:38:53 PM Central Standard Time, Wilsometer(a)aol.com writes: Norm, I am guessing your Evinrude 3hp is a 2-stroke engine. There are two schools of thought on running engines dry. In the 'old days' this practice was common--especially on engines that did not have bowl drains on the carb. The thinking was that it was the lesser of evils to get any remaining fuel out prior to storage (2-stroke mix can go bad starting two to three weeks after initial combining of fuel). Some manufacturers even advocated this practice in the owner's manual. The contrary school insists that running the carb dry can cause two potential problems. The first argument is that the engine can, for a brief moment, have inadequate lubrication (assuming two-stroke), as the fuel-oil mix itself is what is doing the lubrication. At first glance, this would seem odd, as you would not think the motor would run any longer than it had fuel/oil mix available. Apparently, as the argument goes, the engine can run on after the oil portion has been exhausted, and when only residual gas vapor is present. If this is true, then there might be a brief time when the rings and bearings are poorly lubricated, and cylinder scuff and/or bearing wear could result. The second argument (and this would be true for both 2 and 4-stroke engines) is that running dry necessarily results in an extreme lean-burn scenario--albeit for a brief time. Lean burn in and of itself would not be a problem save for the fact that it dramatically raises combustion chamber temperatures. The concern is that this can be damaging to valves, valve guides/seals (4-strokes only, obviously), as well as spark plug electrodes/insulators. While I come from a long tradition of run-dry proponents, and have never suffered any engine damage from doing same, I have come around to the opinion that if there is a bowl drain available (and virtually all newer engines have this), I will use that method instead. Scott

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Rudder pins...
by Howard Audsley 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

If the rod in question is the straight pin 1/2" rods, with holes drilled in them, you can make them yourself. I would get 316 stainless rod from McMaster-Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/ I would cut them to length and would make at least two. One should always have a spare rudder pin on board. The rudder will raise and lower easily on a straight pin and almost not at all on a bent one. Use 316 stainless. More corrosion resistant and easier to cut and drill holes, but may bend more easily. Howard On 3/18/05 8:31 AM, "Wayne Yeargain" <saltydog(a)ev1.net> wrote: > Are you are talking about the steel rod that holds the standard M17 > rudder on ? > I just bought a 3/8" Dia. rod at Home Depot and cut it to length, about 32" > long I think. > Drilled some small holes each end for cotter pins to retain it. > > Wayne > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <TOMMYVAL(a)aol.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 7:35 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A little advice & info please? > > >> M Listers >> >> I need to replace my rudder post on a 1993 M 17 and was wondering if >> anyone >> had any ideas where I may be able to purchase one or have one made. Bob >> has >> contacted the original manufacturer (Thank you Bob!!) to see about >> getting a >> replacement but so far has had no luck. >> >> Hopefully the manufacturer will come through but I'm starting to get >> behind >> the eight ball and would like to see what other options are available. >> Any and all thoughts are appreciated. >> >> Thanks >> >> Gary >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Swim Ladder
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

In a message dated 3/22/2005 3:38:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, htmills(a)bright.net writes: http://www.todspages.net/images/BBc07-BuscaNewLettering.jpg Thanks for the link. Pictures work so nice. Bill M-17 "Tipperary"

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Re: M_Boats: Swim Ladder
by bownez＠juno.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Hi Bill, Checkout the Garelick model 597310 three step ladder. I use one of those on my M17 and love it. It is removeable off the transom when you are done swimming and stores below. It's very solid, and I have fashioned a mount out of PVC which uses the same bracket for my skulling oar. Later, Bones ___________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

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Re: M_Boats: Swim Ladder
by NummiJ＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

How much was your ladder and do you have a web sit address? Dale M17

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Re: anyone on the list know anything about the . . .
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Craig, I agree with Tod that fuel delivery is the likely culprit--especially if you tell me that it has been six months or more in storage without draining the carb. I also agree that this is not a Tohatsu or Nissan (or Mercury--they are all the same save for paint) issue. I had this happen to my Honda when I forgot to drain the carb prior to putting into storage. I seldom see ignition problems with newer outboards (or other power equipment), as they virtually all have solid state ignitions that preclude wandering spark timing, etc. They usually either work or they don't--no middle ground! About the only things I have seen fail ignition-wise of late are burnt spark plug electrodes or chafed-through spark plug wires. The latter would be very obvious. A few points: 1) Varnish formation/buildup seems to be worse with the new gas formulations (oxygenated, MTBE, and other formulations). I am far from a chemist, but I can tell you that the new types of gas do not seem to have anything like the shelf life of 'old' formulations. I run up against this problem all the time with seasonal-use power equipment, and nine times out of ten, I end up removing the carb and either chemically (Tod is correct--be careful) or physically (wire/compresseed air) cleaning the bowl, jets, needle and seat, etc. I now use a fuel stabilizer for shorter term storage, and empty the bowl for anything beyond a few months. 2) Another problem with *some* formulations is that the additives attack *some* rubber seals, gaskets, and needle valves. If you get the carb open and there is no apparent varnishing, but notice weird, distorted rubber parts, this could be the culprit (I doubt it, though, as most manufacturers switched to improved 'new gas' rubber compounds in recent years). 3) I would be curious to know how the shop in question (which, by the way, does not sound very impressive diagnostics-wise) tested for spark. If they were lazy (and it sounds like they were), they likely just pulled the spark plug wire boot, and tested for arc while pulling the recoil starter. This tells you whether your coil is delivering spark to the plug, but it does not tell you whether the plug is actually sparking within the combustion chamber. The proper test is to remove the plug, ground the threaded portion to the engine block, and pull the recoil starter (with the spark plug wire attached, of course!). That said, it would be very unusual for a plug to just give up while in storage, but it is a very easy test to run. 4) There is one other (very easy) way to verify that ignition is not the culprit. You can spray a VERY SMALL amount of starting fluid directly into the air horn of the carb. I say VERY SMALL because you do not want the engine to over-rev (and it will!) by spraying too much. In all likelihood, the engine will start on the first or second pull, rev up a bit, and then die very soon thereafter. Again--a little of this stuff goes a very long way!!!! Before you do this (if you do this) pull the starter several times (fast) to get some oil s plashed around. 5) When you pull the recoil starter rope (with the same pull as you normally would to start), do you feel the same kind of resistance that you are accustomed to? While very highly unlikely, compression loss due to a burnt or bent valve, or cracked ring(s) could keep an engine from starting cold--especially a one cylinder. So, I am betting on varnished fuel causing a stuck needle valve, plugged jet(s), or in an extreme case, clogged fuel line, bowl, and the needle valve and jets. There is one more thing to check. Most of these motors have either a very fine mesh fuel filter at the carb, or an inline paper media or mesh filter. Make sure that this is clear, and try blowing through the fuel line as well (this may or may not be possible without defeating the check valve where your external tank hose hooks up. If your 4hp Toha-Nissan has the internal tank, also look in the very bottom of the tank where the fuel line exits. There might be a very fine mesh screen there as well. Some of these screens are designed to allow the flow of fuel, but not water, so make sure there is none present. Oh--and this should go without say--make sure that you start with new, fresh fuel! I will be eager to hear what you find. If you don't want to tackle this yourself, a *good* shop should be able to do a COMPLETE diagnosis in less than 1/2 hour (an hour if removing the carb is particularly difficult). The repair--assuming varnish--should not take more than another hour total. >From what you said, I don't think I would include your first shop in the *good* category! Best, Scott In a message dated 3/21/05 6:35:00 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com writes: >. . . Nissan (Tohatsu) 4-stroke? I know some list members own them, but >I'm >wondering if anyone out there, unlike me, knows anything about them. > >I own a 4-horse 4-stroke Nissan (Tohatsu), but know nothing about it, except >that, >last Fall, it stopped starting. > >I've had it at a local repair shop, where they can find nothing wrong, >yet cannot >start it. They told me they were giving up. The shop is most familiar >with Johnson >and Evinrude, but services all brands, including, a few times in the past, >this exact >motor. They thought perhaps a Nissan dealer could find a cause they were >overlooking. > >Any ideas? I bought the motor, on sale and tax-free, from an Indiana dealer >and it's >not particularly practical to take it back to him. > >The motor ran beautifully and reliably for two seasons before it mysteriously >quit >last Fall . . .

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