March 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: outboard fuel shutoff
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

In a message dated 3/23/2005 6:54:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, farreach(a)optonline.net writes: I suppose there is a certain amount of lubrication in regular gasoline. Hi Rick, If that was a while back it may have been a leaded gasoline. Which may have provided some lubrication. Bill

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OB Problem
by Rick Langer 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Hey Don, Starting an engine with propane sounds like a good idea. I can't wait until my next engine problem to give it a try. It seems a lot less messy than sprays or my usual method of pouring gas into the cylinder or down the throat of the carburetor. I wonder if I could run my roto tiller on propane? (LOL) I heard that BMW developed a hydrogen fuel internal combustion engine (as opposed to a fuel cell type power plant) that drives the car 180 mph. Wouldn't it be cool to have an outboard motor that sucks water in, separates out the hydrogen, burns it with oxygen and exhausts water back into the water. That would be environmentally friendly. Rick Langer > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:29:05 EST > From: LUDLOWD2(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re:OB Problem . . > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <7f.5a842780.2f72bb11(a)aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > A couple of points. > A motor need fuel, air, spark, and timing to run. > A weak ignition will spark a plug in open air but not under compresion > (higher resistance across the air gap). The best way to check is the starting fluid > test. > I've also run an outboard on propane from a blow torch by having somene hold > the unlit torch next to the carb air inlet while I cranked the OB. This > verified a fuel delivery problem. > Good Luck > Don >

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outboard fuel shutoff
by Rick Langer 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Hi Steve, A friend, same guy who destroyed the roto tiller engine, ran a chain saw on straight gas for over a year. And when I told him he needed to mix oil with that gas, he didn't believe me and I don't think he ever changed his ways. He moved away so I lost track of the end of that story. I suppose there is a certain amount of lubrication in regular gasoline. Hey, when it gets slow on the list, why don't you tell us about that boat you're building. Rick Langer M15 #337 > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 23:37:14 EST > From: IDCLLC(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Re: outboard fuel shutoff > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <84.41dd88fe.2f724c7a(a)aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > When I rebuilt my Tohatsu 2.5 (seized up due to dead water pump; ignorant me) > the bottom end was oily. The bearings consist of ball and needle bearings. > I'd say that you'd have to run one a long time to hurt the bottom end (a > friend of mine ran a 2-stroke inboard most of one season on straight gas before > realizing it was a 2-stroke after it finally seized up. It smokes a lot now, but > still runs). > > The lean burn issue is less clear. On a 2-stroke, there's not much to burn, > and the parts in question have a lot of relative mass, thus could absorb a lot > of heat in the short term. On a 4-stroke, the exhaust valve would be in > danger, but the motor should be a lot cooler than a full throttle situation, and > again, we're talking about a no load, short term situation. > > I frequently run 2-stroke equipment dry. No ill effects so far. Come to > think of it, the lowly lawn mower can expect to be run dry while in working mode, > again and again. Hey, wait a minute, so can outboards! How many of us have > forgotten to open the gas vent? (Me.) > > All that said, if your motor melts into an expensive blob, not my fault! I > hereby limit my liability to $0.02 ;^) > > Steve Tyree > grease monkey and shade tree mechanic >

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Re: M_Boats: Swim Ladder
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

In a message dated 3/23/2005 5:53:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com writes: I have the same swim ladder that Tod shows in his picture. It works ok but doesn't get very deep in the water and can be strain getting on that first step. If I had to do it over again I would go for the Telescoping model tha Maria suggests. Thanks Doug, Maria to the rescue again... I'm looking into the ladder that IM puts on their P-19. I've Emailed Windline to see if they are the supplier. However, they dont mention the 4 step transom mount on their site << http://www.windline.com/index.html >> If I were 25, I'd put a good handhold on the stern and just pop out of the water into the cockpit. Seeing as how I don't do much popping any longer, I do like the idea of a ladder that extends well below the waterline. Bill M-17 "Tipperary"

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Re: M_Boats: Delta anchors (9# size)
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Thanks for the input on the Delta anchors. They sound like a fine solution, and the 9# version would fit in my outboard well. West Marine carries them for $90, but the San Diego store sounds like my first choice. Cheers Steve Tyree

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Re: M_Boats: Swim Ladder
by Doug Kelch 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

One more comment. I am not in favor of the removable swim ladders. The fixed ones will always be there when really needed. The removable ones do come off while sailing as I have seen MissT's dangling by one attachment point on several occasions. He now keeps a line tied to the ladder so he won't loose it. thanks Doug __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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outboard fuel shutoff
by Rick Langer 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Scott, I have the same motor as Norm, although mine is called Johnson, but it has the same instructions. I've been meaning to call them and ask what's it's all about. You're explanation makes that unnecessary. Years ago I had a 6 hp Evinrude 2 cycle that would always get fouled jets if I just turned the motor off with the stop switch and like you say sometimes it would happen in just a few weeks. After I was shown the run her dry method I never had a gas problem again, over ten years. A couple of months after I sold that boat the new owner called me to say you couldn't get the motor started and that it ran fine the last time he used it, but now nothing no matter what he does. I don't know if this supports the lack of lubrication argument, but at first, it's a bit unnerving the way the engine reeves up just before it stops when you run the fuel dry. I've gotten use to it, but there is probably less lubrication in there when it stops. That could effect long term storage. Like you, I have not experienced any engine problems caused by running her dry so I guess I continue the practice with my current motor. Thanks, Rick Langer M15 #337 > Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:31:30 EST > From: Wilsometer(a)aol.com > Subject: M_Boats: Re: outboard fuel shutoff > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <83.23f29bea.2f71be82(a)aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Norm, > I am guessing your Evinrude 3hp is a 2-stroke engine. There are two schools > of thought on running engines dry. In the 'old days' this practice was > common--especially on engines that did not have bowl drains on the carb. The > thinking was that it was the lesser of evils to get any remaining fuel out prior to > storage (2-stroke mix can go bad starting two to three weeks after initial > combining of fuel). Some manufacturers even advocated this practice in the > owner's manual. > > The contrary school insists that running the carb dry can cause two potential > problems. The first argument is that the engine can, for a brief moment, > have inadequate lubrication (assuming two-stroke), as the fuel-oil mix itself is > what is doing the lubrication. At first glance, this would seem odd, as you > would not think the motor would run any longer than it had fuel/oil mix > available. Apparently, as the argument goes, the engine can run on after the oil > portion has been exhausted, and when only residual gas vapor is present. If this > is true, then there might be a brief time when the rings and bearings are > poorly lubricated, and cylinder scuff and/or bearing wear could result. > > The second argument (and this would be true for both 2 and 4-stroke engines) > is that running dry necessarily results in an extreme lean-burn > scenario--albeit for a brief time. Lean burn in and of itself would not be a problem save > for the fact that it dramatically raises combustion chamber temperatures. The > concern is that this can be damaging to valves, valve guides/seals (4-strokes > only, obviously), as well as spark plug electrodes/insulators. > > While I come from a long tradition of run-dry proponents, and have never > suffered any engine damage from doing same, I have come around to the opinion that > if there is a bowl drain available (and virtually all newer engines have > this), I will use that method instead. > > Scott > > Your original Message: > > I have a Evinrude 3hp on my Monty 15. I have been running the fuel out of > carb when shutting it down. I recently read in the manual for it that you > should not run the fuel out on shut off. > > The recent post discussed varnished forming in bowls and jets with fuel left > in. Any opinions on this? > > Norm M15 #172

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re: M-15 Sails
by Steve R. 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

John Harris earlier said the Windmill has the same size jib as the M-15. I would be interested to know which boats have similar sized sails, just in case the opportunity arises to increase my inventory. Has anyone else been successful with a sail transplant? steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY "William Emerson" wrote: I'm thinking of buying a barely used International 420 main (P:16.55 and E:6.3 to 7.0) for my M-15 (P:16.83 & E:7.83). Has anyone tried this, and is it a bad idea? If its not a bad idea, does anyone have any ideas about getting the "420" off? -William "Karen Michelle" M-15 Peoria, AZ _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Swim Ladder
by Doug Kelch 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

I have the same swim ladder that Tod shows in his picture. It works ok but doesn't get very deep in the water and can be strain getting on that first step. If I had to do it over again I would go for the Telescoping model tha Maria suggests. Thanks Doug Kelch M15 "Seas the Day" --- Maria Jorge <mcjorge(a)bellsouth.net> wrote: > I ordered a Windline swim ladder from International > Marine, the makers of > West Wight Potters. The model telescopes and is very > unobstrusive when > collapsed. There are some photos of my ladder on > Randy Graves' site. This > ladder is NOT the same model sold in West Marine and > I was only able to find > it by calling International Marine directly. It is > the model for the Potter > 19. > Maria > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BILLAMICASR(a)aol.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:07 AM > Subject: M_Boats: Swim Ladder > > > > Hi All, > > Any suggestions regarding brand / model number of > a good swim ladder. I > sort > > of dislike the idea of one mounted on the stern, > however I do suppose for > > safety sake it's the best place to put one. > > Any ideas are welcome. She came with one of those > very convenient, plastic > > step, rollup models. Looks great in the bilge, > doesn't take up much room > but... > > you cant get out of the water very easily. > > Thanks, > > Bill M-17 "Tipperary" > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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Fractional Rigs
by Howard Audsley 23 Mar '05

23 Mar '05

Am I the only one who noticed two recent articles...one in Small Craft Advisor and one in Good Old Boat, in which the authors both commented that when racing fleets are free to design any rig they want to match a particular boat, then tend to design something that looks an awful lot like the M15 fractional rig? I think Ted Brewer¹s comment was something like, ³you could design something else, but your boat would lose². Me thinks the designer of the M15 must have known what he was doing. Howard

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