August 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Pend Oreille trip
by chbenneck＠juno.com 24 Aug '04

24 Aug '04

Hey Bill, Great idea! Can I come with my 1930's 36" Boucher schooner? It's a model of the Bowdoin used in arctic exploration. As a boy I used to sail it on Conservatory Lake, a model ship lake in Central Park, NY, and learned about sail trim there. The schooner has also sailed in Paris, in Germany, and in Yugoslavia, so Left Coast sailing would add to the pedigree. I can also show you a 3 foot rubber band powered submarine to add to the general amusement. Connie

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Rowing the M15
by Rick Langer 24 Aug '04

24 Aug '04

Yesterday I tried rowing my boat. It didn't move as easily as I expected, but the water was rough and windy, On calm water I expect she would row much better. I built a pair of 9' 5" oars from lumber yard KD spruce. Oarlock sockets are mounted on the top of a hand made wooden horn cleat which is mounted on the coaming top. My rationale for this solution is as follows. My boat had clam cleats mounted on the coaming top which I could not figure out for what they were used. I decided to try to build a horn cleat out of locust so I could tie off a line led from either foreword or aft. The position of the cleat seemed right for a oarlock and I wanted to use the holes that were already there. (I only managed to use one hole) Mounting the oarlock socket on top of the cleat was also based on not wanting to put more holes in the boat. The sockets I used required two #10 holes and one 3/4" hole. If mounted on top of the cleat, no additional holes. I did enlarge the #10 holes to 1/4". Because the coaming top is about 2 feet off the water, even with long oars, the oar handles are a bit high when the tips are in the water. I think I can get use to it and the height does make rowing while standing a bit easier. This is a good example of "all boats are a compromise". A sailboat is not going to row like a rowboat, but then no rowboat is going to sail like my M15. If anyone is interested in seeing this setup, let me know and I'll send you some pictures. Rick Langer M15 "Sialia" #337

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Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 18, Issue 38
by Rick Langer 24 Aug '04

24 Aug '04

Connie, As I said before, I like the pinned oars, but you bring up a big disadvantage of not be able to feather the oars on the return stroke. Perhaps the best solution is use the round oarlocks that use the leathers and buttons. That way the oar won't ride up and out of the oarlock and you can still feather the back stroke. I've done the pin rounding over four or five times and the problem that I always have is that the pin gets bent a little and restricts the movement of the oar. Once the bent pin enlarged the hole in the oar to about twice it's original size which made rowing sloppy and noisy. Maybe I've been hitting the pin a little too hard. My next oarlocks are going to be the round ones. Now all I need to do is build another rowboat. Any suggestion? Thanks for the oarlock measurements. Rick Langer M15 "Sialia" #337 > Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:53:30 -0400 > From: chbenneck(a)juno.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Oarlocks and Oarlock Sockets > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <20040823.115331.108.4.chbenneck(a)juno.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Rick, > > On my NYMPH, measuring from the transom, my primary set of oarlocks are > located at 32" and the forward ones at 59". > > I reset both my oarlock sockets and canted them outwards. > > The problem you have if you install them as shown on the prints is that > when rowing you will tend to cam out the oars out of the oarlock. > > By canting the oarlock sockets outboard you are getting a more 90 degree > relationship between oarlock and oar when it is in the water, and so the > oar doesn't ride up the inside of the oarlock and try to jump out. > > If you are using pinned oars, then you don't have this problem; but you > can't feather the oars on a return stroke when rowing against a > wind................. which I find is a "must be able to do" requirement. > > Rick to round over the pin, use the round end of a ball peen hammer. Put > the pin on a vise (a solid base) and then start tapping the pin end that > you want to lock in place. A few taps with the hammer should round the > end of the pin so that it can't fall out. > > Connie >

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Re: M_Boats: Pend Oreille trip
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 24 Aug '04

24 Aug '04

Larry, I've almost done the same. Able to feel the smoothness of the wind pushing the boat along at a fast clip with absolutely no sound save the gurgle of the water along the sides... Only to be jared back to reality when I hit a bump which sends me bouncing off the air seat in the mixer truck. How fun... There is a West Coast of Florida group that calls themselves "The West Coast Trailor Sailors". Since that name is already taken, lets just be the LEFT COAST TRAILOR SAILORS. I've often thought it would be most appropriate to have a group to call our own and have the criteria be that your boat must be transportable. That would include lots of people and models of sailboats who could potentially add fun to an outing.Think of the charter groups and groups of members all over the Left Coast. Vast information for absolutely no charge... Well, it could happen. Or maybe it's best to just keep it small and family like. I think I like that better. Great recap of your outing. Regards, Bill SF Bay M-17 #496 "Tiperary"

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Pend Oreille trip
by Larry E Yake 24 Aug '04

24 Aug '04

Last weekend was the annual "Potter" Pend Oreille Lake cruise in northern Idaho. Monty's have been joining their group for this trip for the last few years. This year, it was really a Montgomery rally. I felt sorry for the lone Potter that came from clear over near Seattle hoping to sail with other Potters, only to be surrounded by 4 Montgomerys, 1 McGregor26D, and 1 ODay25. The sailing was very good for August (normally stalled under a high pressure system) as a cold front was moving into the area. Friday was spent sailing the southern end of the lake. Randy Graves and Gary Hyde joined me on my M17 for a couple hours sail to experience the differences between their 15's and a 17. The general opinion seemed to be that a 17 feels like a much larger boat, while a 15 sails more like a large dingy. Friday night we all got together at Buttonhook Bay, a state park facility with docks and restrooms in a beautiful sheltered little anchorage at the very southern tip of the lake. We were joined there by fellow M boaters Harvey and Deena Hockstetter in their M15 Pelican and Jim Desnoyers who was sailing his McGregor instead of one of his M15's (yes, he has 2!). He fit our rally into a busy trip schedule sailing all over the inland northwest. Saturday we headed north toward Whiskey Rock. The winds started out light, with fingers of wind coming up from behind and carrying us along on the leading edge of the wind as long as you stayed in one of the wind paths. If you strayed 50 yards away it was dead calm! Eventually the wind filled in the holes and we flew down the lake, most sailing wing and wing all the way. We arrived at Whiskey Rock in only a couple of hours, a distance of 9 miles. The afternoon was spent swimming and visiting. A fire pit on shore provided a place for Randy and I to barbecue our steaks, but we must have looked pretty funny trying to eat them on the run to get away from the swarming yellow jackets. We finally ending up standing out in the lake eating steak with our fingers to get a little relief from the bees. A storm was forecast for that night and it arrived in the early morning hours with wind, rain, and crossing waves for those who weren't in the most sheltered part of the bay. The O'Day 25 got the worst of it, out a buoy with 6 people on board and 2 seasick dogs. Pend Orelle is a large deep lake surround by steep mountains which funnel the winds and stir up some big waves. I once heard the Sheriffs boat there on the VHF talking about 8 ft. seas! As we headed back down the lake Sunday morning, we were faced with heavy squalls of rain which obscured everything over a mile away, breaking waves, low cloud cover shrouding the mountains, and gusting winds which had me putting in reefs, taking them out, and then putting them back in again as the winds looked like they were dying out, only to come roaring back again. This was full rain suit sailing, and it was great! Almost no one else was out on this nasty day and it was wild and exhilarating as we pounded to windward with spray flying over the cabin on the biggest waves. Several boats ended up having to motor to make any progress against the wind and waves, but the M17 loves this stuff and we had a terrific sail back to the takeout. What a great boat! Larry Yake M17, #200 Tullamore P.S. As I was cruising along today, the wind started gusting. I glanced up to check the sails only to find my view blocked by the roof of the truck I was driving!

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Re: M_Boats: Working, working, working...
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 24 Aug '04

24 Aug '04

Oh the price of fun... My son wanted to see Predator Vrs. Alien. Cost here on the left coast $9.00 each. Movie was terrible. We stayed and pretended it was great. Then laughed about it later. I know just how your friends felt Bill

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M15 rudder and tiller
by bobjudy2＠comcast.net 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

Hi, All, As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had the good fortune to win a $100 gift certificate from IdaSailor Marine at the SCA Cruiser Challenge in Monterey. I checked out their web site at www.idasailor.com, then contacted Joel Santarone, their General Manager. Although it is not on their web site, he has the specs to make me a new tiller and hdpe rudder blade. My tiller is cracked and the blade rather beat up, so this is a good time to replace them. I have heard lots of good things about the hdpe blades and can't wait to try it. I would expect most companies to offer a standard tiller and blade, but I mentioned that by the way could I get a tiller 3" longer and with more of a curve to clear the passengers knees and maybe a blade that was 3" longer. Hey, no problem! Now that's what I call service! I have the rod kickup rudder system, which I find generally acceptable, and this will work with hdpe. I would be interested in hearing from anyone with the line raising/lowering system if it is better. The new blade will be set for the rod system. Until he finds out differently, Joel has to assume there may be slight variations in hole locations, so I will have to fit everything to my existing frame. Drilling my own holes is an arrangement I prefer in any case. I'll keep you posted on how the new rig works. If you are looking for a new tiller and or blade, email Joel and I bet he can come up with just what you want. Fair winds, Bob Becker M15 #208 San Francisco area

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Re: M_Boats: Working, working, working...
by chbenneck＠juno.com 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

Hi Bill, You're right, yesterday the sky was so washed and sparklely that it looked brand new! The air also smelled new! This isn't our "normal" weather. It's more like the tail end of a hurricane, but when Charlie came by a week ago, we hardly noticed it - just some mild rain. No, this weather was a big exception to normal August, New England weather. I talked with a woman a few minutes ago, just back from a week on Cape Cod. She told me it was so cold on the beach that they had the blankets over them! Had paid $10 to go to the beach so they stayed and froze! Happy sailing Connie

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Re: M_Boats: Oarlocks and Oarlock Sockets
by chbenneck＠juno.com 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

Hi Rick, On my NYMPH, measuring from the transom, my primary set of oarlocks are located at 32" and the forward ones at 59". I reset both my oarlock sockets and canted them outwards. The problem you have if you install them as shown on the prints is that when rowing you will tend to cam out the oars out of the oarlock. By canting the oarlock sockets outboard you are getting a more 90 degree relationship between oarlock and oar when it is in the water, and so the oar doesn't ride up the inside of the oarlock and try to jump out. If you are using pinned oars, then you don't have this problem; but you can't feather the oars on a return stroke when rowing against a wind................. which I find is a "must be able to do" requirement. Rick to round over the pin, use the round end of a ball peen hammer. Put the pin on a vise (a solid base) and then start tapping the pin end that you want to lock in place. A few taps with the hammer should round the end of the pin so that it can't fall out. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: M15 rudder and tiller
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 23 Aug '04

23 Aug '04

Hi Bob, Funny thing about Idasail... A few months back I called twice, got hold of a production person who said Joe was to busy to talk on the phone. Took my number and promised me he'd call (never did). I Emailed several times, mentioned that a couple of people on the MSOG had expressed interest in the HDPE and specifically beaching rudders. After beating my head against the wall I posted my frustrations with his company. It all started with a post of wishing to replace a rudder on the MSOG. I've seen several of the Potter factory rudders made by Idasail. The work is excellent, the fairing very even and the posts from the Potter Group say they love the rudder. Please post you final results with Idasail. I know there are people in the group that will be interested Bill SF Bay M-17 #496 "Tiperary"

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