July 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Connie's story and Bruce anchor
by chbenneck＠juno.com 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Hi Rick, Sorry to mislead you. The ComPac was on the trailer and I had pushed it by hand into the garage so that I could work on it. No connection to the car at all, which was why the ComPac slide off to the garage floor when I was trying to maneuver the trailer in the garage, and didn't have the boat tied to the trailer with the bow strap. As I lifted the tongue of the trailer to move it, that allowed the ComPac to slide aft, and then the CG was way back there and the rest is the BOOM.............. as the boat crashed to the garage floor. Will get back to you later on your other questions. C

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RE: M_Boats: gelcoat repair
by Hughston, Larry 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Good information. Thanks, This site is great. Lots of useful stuff and experiened sailors too. ---Larry hull # 189 -----Original Message----- From: Gordon Allgrove [mailto:gordonallgrove@mindspring.com] Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 9:32 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: gelcoat repair Larry, I can't speak for 'all' the Montys to 1981, Jerry would have to do that. But all the online photos I've seen and our own 1982 M8 are all "Buff White", which some people would call a light beige, right?? If I were mixing it myself (on a Palette), I don't think I'd get any closer than what I bought in the blister pack at the West Marine store (and others). (it is also a big improvement over looking at the base fiber of the hull's core.) By comparison our 80's vintage Snipe is almost snow white or sheet of paper white. The little stick included, helps us poor folks with two thumbs, smooth out the little dabs we put in. And a little dab at a time makes it controllable (no big gobs to deal with). fyi - We got our very beat up Monty toy for a criminally low price, unused sail package & all because she looked very baaaddd (black tire streaks & all?). But I've shared 'after' pics on here, and most would agree that she now looks almost like new & 'loved'. It just took elbow grease (to clean her) and a touch of patience for all the scratches. Just my .02 cents ga btw- I have an Art degree too- so I relate to that aspect- which reminds me that I need to finish the other 'M17' line drawing for Bob Eeg for the Montgomery 'T' Shirts- I'll pull that back out tonight ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hughston, Larry" <Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 7:47 AM Subject: RE: M_Boats: gelcoat repair > Re: Buff White gel coat repairs. Are all the Monty 15s back to 1981 > all the > same basic color of "Buff White" ?.....I have some small repairs to do > and I > want an exact match......(Graphic Designer anal retentive > type).....Larry -----hull# 189. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gordon Allgrove [mailto:gordonallgrove@mindspring.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:32 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: gelcoat repair > > > You're Welcome Craig, > My Monty had quite a few shallow scratches, so does the Snipe (from Previous > Owner) > The Gelcoat patch has been good, seals off the original. Just go 'poco > a poco' (little by little) put a small amount in, and let it set - no > mixing required. Even the 'Admirable' can't tell where I've patched > the Gel Coat and she 'knew' where the sins were. For the Monty, it was > the 'Buff White' that color matched. he white white is for the other > toys. > > Hope that helps, > ga > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Honshells" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:01 PM > Subject: M_Boats: gelcoat repair > > > > > > Thanks, Gordon. Is that stuff tough enough to fill the void (not > > deep, > but good-sized area) and keep moisture > > out of the original layup? --Craig, chonshell(a)ia4u.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gordon Allgrove" <gordonallgrove(a)mindspring.com> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Cc: "Honshells" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> > > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:48 PM > > Subject: gelcoat repair > > > > I have used (on the Monty 8 and Bayliner) and am using the colored > > Gel > Coat > > repair stuff - like they sell at WM and Boater's World (WM doesn't > > always have stock on plain white). I have at least two left thumbs, > > but it > usually > > comes out ok. > > ga > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Honshells" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:23 PM > > Subject: gelcoat repair > > > > I've lost gelcoat from sections of my hull below the waterline: A > > section about the size of a stick of gum near the bow, and one a > > little bigger than a silver dollar on the front of the stub-keel. > > > > I'm no D-I-Y'er . . . I've never tried gelcoat repair. Am I safe > > using epoxy to fill the gouged sections (only millimeters deep, but > > exposing 'glass cloth), or should I repair it the way it was built? > > > > I don't really have the time or money to have this professionally > > done, but I don't want to make the situation worse with a sloppy > > home repair. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boat > > s > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Connie's story and Bruce anchor
by Rick Langer 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

Hi Connie, Well that was a perfectly normal and uneventful story of raising your Compac 16 off the trailer. Did you lose the boat and trailer connection before you started restoration or was it after you finished? It was good that you backed the boat into the garage, so you ended up with the boat in the garage and the trailer outside. If it were the other way around the boat would have ended up in the driveway and the trailer tongue, going through the wall, would have messed up your well organized desk When you showed me your boat you blocked up the stern before we got in and I thought to myself, that's strange, but now I know why you did it. On a different subject, I just purchased a Bruce type anchor (11#, smallest they had, 8' of 3/8" chain) from Defender. I have 130' of used, but good 1/2" anchor rode which I have spiced a 1/2" thimble. I know this anchor is a little heavy and the chain is as heavy or heavier than the anchor, but it ought to keep the angle low. I plan to store it in the forward compartment where there's plenty of room and where the weight will help. It will be my second anchor and used in contingencies and special anchoring situations. My initial question concerns a hole in the anchor at the opposite end from where the chain attaches. Is this hole for a trip line to help disengage the anchor? If that's the case, how do you use it? It seems to me that two lines from the boat to the anchor would soon become one very twisted line. One more change of subject. I like the idea of keeping your fuel in one quart bottles. What kind of bottles do you use? Thanks, Rick M15 #337 Hudson River

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Montgomery Photo Site
by Rick Langer 09 Jul '04

09 Jul '04

One picture is worth a thousand words. This is so true in my Montgomery learning experience. I search for pictures of other Montgomery boats just to see what I can learn from them. Everyone was raving about Randy's pictures of the San Juan trip and they were great. I looked at every picture, but mostly for how the boats were rigged. I just finished building handrails, new hatchboards and a companion way screen insert from some beautiful white oak. I searched for pictures before I started these projects, but didn't find many. A month or so ago we were discussing tiller tamers and there was at least some confusion that a good picture would have straightened out. And then there was the discussion of travelers. I printed the sketches of travelers from that website, given during the discussion, and I put myself to sleep each night with them, but I still haven't figured out any of those systems yet. Again a good picture would really help. So, IMHO, we need a photo site, some place where we can post and save pictures to be used as references to other list members and maybe show off a little too. The MSOG doesn't seem to have a place to post pictures, but if it did that would be a good place. Does anyone have any ideas how we might achieve this? Would the use of ftp sites, like what Randy used work? Rick Langer M15 #337 Hudson River

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gelcoat repair
by Honshells 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Thanks, Gordon. Is that stuff tough enough to fill the void (not deep, but good-sized area) and keep moisture out of the original layup? --Craig, chonshell(a)ia4u.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Allgrove" <gordonallgrove(a)mindspring.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Honshells" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 9:48 PM Subject: gelcoat repair I have used (on the Monty 8 and Bayliner) and am using the colored Gel Coat repair stuff - like they sell at WM and Boater's World (WM doesn't always have stock on plain white). I have at least two left thumbs, but it usually comes out ok. ga ----- Original Message ----- From: "Honshells" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: gelcoat repair I've lost gelcoat from sections of my hull below the waterline: A section about the size of a stick of gum near the bow, and one a little bigger than a silver dollar on the front of the stub-keel. I'm no D-I-Y'er . . . I've never tried gelcoat repair. Am I safe using epoxy to fill the gouged sections (only millimeters deep, but exposing 'glass cloth), or should I repair it the way it was built? I don't really have the time or money to have this professionally done, but I don't want to make the situation worse with a sloppy home repair.

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RE: M_Boats: Inland Northwest Rallys
by Hughston, Larry 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Re: Lifting my M-15 hull in the driveway. Has anyone done this in a simple and safe manner? I am looking for ideas that can be made in my simple shop with the usual hand and power tools and patience. Larry H. M-15, #189, Sacramento -----Original Message----- From: Smith, Tom [mailto:Tom.Smith@itron.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 2:41 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: RE: M_Boats: Inland Northwest Rallys I'll try to catch up with you at one of these places Larry. You'd love my new shop. Long and sort of narrow--just right for working on sailboats. t Tom Smith Customer Solutions, EMG Itron, Inc. 509-891-3674 -----Original Message----- From: Larry Yake [mailto:leyake@juno.com] Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 9:33 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Inland Northwest Rallys Hello all, I'm still on a high from the San Juan Rendezvous. It is really a pleasure to sail with other Montgomeries. On that note, I would like to pass along some opportunities for more get-togethers in the north Idaho / eastern Washington area. The Northwest Potters are having a rally on Lake Pend Orelle the weekend of August 20-22nd. There will be a few of us Monty's there and it's always a good time. Jon Martin is planning a group sail on the Columbia River near Walla Walla probably a weekend in September (date yet to be announced), and I'll be up on Priest Lake every weekend from July 10th through Aug. 9th, including the full week of July 24th to 31st. It would be a blast if anyone wanted to join me. Contact me if you're interested and we'll set something up. (We had a rally up at Priest a couple years ago. The trip report and pictures are on the web site. Gorgeous place!) Larry Yake M17 #200 Tullamore "In a power boat you get there faster. In a sailboat you're already there." _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats This message was scanned for viruses!! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Lifting M15 in Driveway
by chbenneck＠juno.com 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Hi Rick, When I got the ComPac 16 it needed total refinishing. To do that I had to get the boat off the trailer. I got some sail boat jack stands (4) from the ship yard where I used to keep my boat (it was summer and they were just standing around). Then I used bottle jacks and blocks to gradually raise the boat off the trailer. I slid a long 6" x 6" under the boat and they rested on the jack stands - in front of the keel, and aft of the keel. Then I used the jack stand screws to lift the boat a bit more - front and rear - till I could pull the trailer out from under the boat. Next I lowered the boat to some keel blocks on the garage floor, added some supports at the sides to keep the boat from tipping, and was able to remove my 6" x 6"s to clear the area for the refinishing work. When done, and repainted, I just reversed the process. JUST ONE WORD OF CAUTION: With the boat on the trailer, and no bow strap attached, I did something stupid like lifting the trailer tongue to move the trailer.................. The boat tilted aft, the stern hitting the floor, the trailer tongue went up in the air and the trailer squirted out from under the boat.............................. BANG. The ComPac was lying on it's side in the garage, and the trailer was out the front door. So, place a stern support under the stern to keep it from tilting, and ...............fasten the bow strap! Another couple of hours of work was needed to slowly jack the boat up in a "normal" position; then jack the boat up enough by putting blocks under the keel until the trailer would fit again................. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: Small Craft Advisor's new Contributor's Page
by Saltm17＠aol.com 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

I wish I could say my Mother-in-law gave it to me, but the truth is I picked it out (and my mother in law is a sweet dear lady). John

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Lifting M15 in Driveway
by Rick Langer 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

Larry, I've been thinking about a way to get the boat off the trailer so I can make some repairs and install some keel guides on the trailer. One solution would be to float the boat off and do the repairs at the launch site. This doesn't appeal to me because I want to do the work at home where I have all my tools. The logistics of organizing the repairs at the waterfront reminds me of the yacht club scenario which is why I bought a trailer sailboat in the first place. So, how do you lift the boat off the trailer on the hard? Did you ever see that guy who is building a version of Stone Henge, by himself, by using balancing techniques. He can lift gigantic slabs of stone, with just the weight of his body, by balancing it and blocking it as he goes up. He can also spin large rocks with this technique, moving them virtually anywhere. I've moved smaller, but still large rocks and logs using some of these methods. Now a boat is much more delicate than a rock, so you don't want to make any mistakes. But could you pick up one end of the boat and block it and then the other end and block it? Keep doing this until you get the boat high enough to put a couple of cross beams under it and then pull out the trailer. Another idea I had was to float the boat off the trailer. Then block up the trailer and put the boat back on it. Then very carefully drive home. Once home, put beams under the boat, lift slightly and pull the trailer out. Does anyone know the best place to support an M15 from underneath? Would just forward of the keel and at the transom work? Rick Langer M13 #337 Hudson River > Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 08:31:30 -0700 > From: "Hughston, Larry" <Larry.Hughston(a)dgs.ca.gov> > Subject: RE: M_Boats: Inland Northwest Rallys > To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: > <39D7D48FE348D61188C800065B3C3EE202842B33(a)smf00exch031.dgs.ca.gov> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Re: Lifting my M-15 hull in the driveway. Has anyone done this in a simple > and safe manner? I am looking for ideas that can be made in my simple shop > with the usual hand and power tools and patience. Larry H. M-15, #189, > Sacramento > >

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RE: M_Boats: Lifting in the driveway
by Morris, Giles 08 Jul '04

08 Jul '04

This is what I wrote when I went through this exercise a few years ago. In part, it is a way of describing what not to do, but... Giles ---------------------------------- Until I bought her, Umiaq had been used primarily in fresh water. This meant that the Trail Rite trailer, although fifteen years old, was in pretty good condition. Living near the Chesapeake Bay, I have every intention of making life hard on the trailer by dunking it in salt water as often as possible. So it was that, a few days after getting back from a trip to Florida with Umiaq, I was in my driveway with the idea of inspecting the trailer to make sure that it wasn't going to fall apart this coming summer. Aesthetically, the trailer could best have been described as functional (it isn't only dogs who look like their owners) but the overall condition was encouraging. The frame itself was excellent for the most part - probably because it has no enclosed box sections. The wheels were new, and the grease from the leaking seals ensured that they weren't going to corrode. The wooden parts were another matter: Although still in the right place the side guides and the V-shaped keel guide just behind the rear roller had seen better days, and the carpet on the side guides would have been an insult to a parrot cage. The bunks were ok, but the high-friction carpet on them was sometimes making life difficult at the ramp. It looked like the trailer would easily last a couple of seasons without doing anything to it, so I did the obvious thing. A few minutes later I was jacking up Umiaq's keel preparatory to pulling the trailer out from underneath her. Tools available were a hydraulic bottle jack and timbers. A landscaping timber formed blocks for the keel to rest on, and two by fours took care of the rest. This was to be a solo effort because my son is much too young to be scampering around under half a ton of boat and my wife is much too smart to get involved with this sort of thing. My mother was visiting, and is usually game for this sort of thing ("I'll distract it while you grab it and slip the muzzle on - watch out for the tail"), but even I have some shame About an hour's work found me wondering why the trailer was still stuck to the boat. I lost count of the number of times that I checked every place where the hull was even close to the trailer. Eventually I noticed that the mast was still firmly tied to the trailer at one end and the boat at the other. Bingo! A few minutes later, the trailer rolled out free, and Umiaq was sitting proudly on blocks. But not for long. Before I could even stop the trailer moving, there was a "creak". Uh, Oh! "Creak". Doesn't sound good. "CREAK". Oh, no! The temporary props were too far back on the hull, and one of them was moving slowly. Quandary: Do I go and hold the timbers, knowing that the worst that can happen is that I break the hull's fall, or do I keep out of the way. "Rumble, bump". Option B, by default. To make the best of it, I decided that I would not worry about the damage that I'd just done until I got the boat back on the trailer. And the good side was that when my new centerboard arrived it would be easier to fit it (see "Umiaq Has a New Centerboard"). The rest of the afternoon was spent in reducing the trailer to its component parts. Here's what I found (remember, this trailer is about fifteen years old and may not have seen salt water until this year): All of the wood (bunks, side pieces, keel guide) were significantly deteriorated. All of the fasteners holding the wood had corroded - some of them almost to nothing. Many bolts had their nuts corroded solid with them and a bolt cutter was extremely useful at this point. The wiring was in such poor condition that it was a miracle it worked. Two of the six plates at the tops of the bunk board supports were rusted paper thin. The lights should have fallen off long ago. Apart from that, things were in good functional condition, although the original paint was falling off in many places. The hubs were absolutely free of water inside and showed no wear at all, which may well be a result of the bearing buddies. The ensuing work lasted several weeks and involved two outside contractors. First I took the trailer to a welder and had all six of the bunk board supports replaced. I also had him remove the single (permanently attached) safety chain and put on two loops for new chains. I also had him add loops for the hold-down strap that had previously been kind of jammed into a convenient hole. In addition, I had him remove a skid that prevented me from fitting a tongue extension (I'll write about that when I find out whether it works). I made quite a few phone calls about a new surface finish. My initial plan was to get the trailer sandblasted and hot-dip galvanized, but two problems prevented this. The first was return on investment. The only galvanizer I could find to do it wanted nearly eight hundred dollars, and this seemed rather a lot. The other problem was that I had to arrange for it to be sandblasted just before galvanizing, and this turned out to be really hard. Most sandblasters around here seem to want to do only buildings or small metal parts. I phoned every one in the Yellow Pages. Some were helpful, some were insulting, but most were just uninterested. Now what? It turned out that I could rent a sandblasting machine and, although not exactly fun, could expect to do the whole thing in a day. But the machine was too big to carry in a car - I needed a truck to carry it. Well, call me chicken but I opted out. There was one company that would clean to bare metal and apply a powder coat finish for under five hundred dollars. They and their work looked good, and a few days later I was in their parking lot one misty, moisty morning removing the axle, springs, wheels, hubs etc. "It'll be done in ten days", they said (it wasn't, but I didn't really believe them anyway so no harm done). Meanwhile, I was in my basement making new wooden parts. I used preservative treated lumber and stainless steel nuts, bolts and fittings. This was an easy but long task that involved duplicating the shapes of the old wood and bolting them together. All of the lighting and accessories were new. I decided to change the bunk board surface to Ultra-High Molecular Weight (UHMW) plastic. Somebody in the Potter group has recorded frustration with trying to bend the stuff, so I tried a different approach - I bought it thick enough to countersink and screwed a flat plate of it to each board. This didn't cost too much more than carpeting at well under $40 for two six-foot bunks. At the same time I sent an order to Champion Trailers (www.championtrailers.com) for new springs, bushings, U-bolts etc. Everything that was available in stainless steel, I bought stainless steel. Other pieces were bought locally at Boat/US or West Marine. I was initially planning on using new hubs, but after looking at prices for new ones I decided to fit new bearings to the old ones. (The cups were so tight that it took a professional mechanic friend over an hour to replace them). Considering that an idler hub is basically a lump of metal with a hole in it, new hubs would probably have been a waste of money. Eventually, the trailer frame was ready (one day under three weeks) and I was fortunate enough to be able to assemble it for the road in the finisher's warehouse. He even supplied an assistant to help me. The assistant was a little stand-offish at first, but after about an hour he was sitting in my toolbox and playfully biting my feet. This assistant was a delightful Labrador/German shepherd cross puppy with one blue eye and one brown. Never having done it before I was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to assemble the springs, axle and hubs. Just as well, really, since that was the only way the trailer was going home with me. Now what? The trailer, mostly reassembled, was sitting in front of the boat. Neither of them was going anywhere unless I did something about it. Actually, this part had been worrying me. One option I considered was to invite all my friends round for a boat-raising, but it looked as if it was going to be hard to get everybody together at the same time. So... It was back to me, my bottle jack and plenty of lumber. It turned out to be pretty easy, partly because the UHMW plastic on the bunk boards allowed the boat to slide and partly because I had put a new, and stronger, winch on the trailer. The whole job took about two hours including tea breaks. It's hard to describe the feeling of relief when Umiaq was once more sitting squarely on her trailer instead of lying sadly on her side. And what about damage from the fall? Thank you, Jerry Montgomery, for building such a strong boat. A few scratches, nothing more. Final touches: Fine tune the fit of the new bunk boards, fit the V-shaped keel guide behind the rear roller, fit the new side bunks. Put on new wiring, including a proper ground wire instead of trying to use the trailer frame and... done. Conclusions? It was worth it for two reasons: The trailer is now ready to perform its duties with minimal maintenance for quite some time, and I now know a lot more about the trailer, and any potential problems have been addressed. This wasn't an inexpensive exercise, without having bills in front of me I would estimate $125 for welding $450 for stripping and refinishing $200 for parts Plus a considerable number of hours of my time. On the positive side are a better-than-new trailer and a great sense of personal satisfaction. One other thing. While I was doing this I decided that it was time to make a tongue extension so that I could get the trailer further into the water on shallow-sloped ramps without immersing the car in automobile solvent. I've just about finished an eight-foot extension to the tongue based on the design that was on the back page of Sail magazine a few months ago. I'll let the group know how it woks out when I get the chance to try it. Giles Morris Arlington VA M-15 #264 "Umiaq" ------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+giles.morris=unisys.com(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+giles.morris=unisys.com@mailman.xmissio n.com] On Behalf Of Hughston, Larry Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 6:34 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: RE: M_Boats: Lifting in the driveway The trailer is in need of lots attention to be made to look as new. Boat (hull # 189) and trailer are 1981 manufacture. I want a safe process to pull out the trailer that I can do at home with simple car jacks, wood, bolts, carpeting and grabber screws. It will be made for disassembly. ----L. -----Original Message----- From: BILLAMICASR(a)aol.com [mailto:BILLAMICASR@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 3:26 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lifting in the driveway Larry, Once the boat is off. Are you doing work on the boat or trailor? Bill _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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