August 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

RE: M_Boats: Tiller extension
by Smith, Tom 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

Yes, Giles is right, Rich. It would be tons less trouble to just purchase a stock tiller (providing everything measures up or can be easily modified...)than to fabricate one. West Marine carries several models ranging from 50 to 70 bucks. I'd spend that much on scotch getting through the project... t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar -----Original Message----- From: rc2222(a)postoffice.pacbell.net [mailto:rc2222@postoffice.pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:14 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extension Tom: Why not just buy a J24 Tiller, how much do they cost? I'm not capable of of building one. Regarding night sailing on the M15. The only time I tried it-I grounded in a hotbed of night bugs. It was awful. Now I make sure I'm anchored or tied up before nightfall. Rich Cottrell "Smith, Tom" wrote: > The M15's short tiller is awkward with an extension in many situations. Thanks for doing the experiment and coming up with a 54 inch starting place. It would be a nice winter project to glue up and shape a new tiller with a rise similar to the stock J24 tiller... > > Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle > Sandpoint, Idaho > M15-345, Chukar > > -----Original Message----- > From: Conbert H Benneck [mailto:chbenneck@juno.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 8:13 AM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extension > > Hi John, > > Your comment about wanting to make a longer tiller for your M15 got me > thinking too. > > My present set-up left a lot to be desired; even using the Forespar > tiller extension. > This worked - after a fashion - but the geometry was all wrong. You were > trying to control the boat, sitting in the forward corner of the cockpit > with the Forespar Tiller Extension to tiller connection, via an obtuse > angle, which didn't give the control or the feel that I like. > > So, your comment about making a longer tiller had me grabbing a suitable > piece of pine in my shop, and I built a new tiller extension, as a > mock-up to try out the concept > > Part of my design involved length - the tiller end now is about 2 inches > forward of the sail locker lid. > > The second change was to cut the aft end of my extension at a shallow > angle, raising the front of the tiller by about 3 inches, to make it > easier to reach and to hold. > > This is just a mock-up to test the idea. I fastened the tiller extension > to the tiller with a length of bungee cord and tried it our yesterday. > > Initial reaction: > > Great improvment over the existing tiller. I can sit in the forward > corner of the cockpit, and can easily hold the extended tiller with two > fingers. > > Steering control is vastly improved through the longer lever arm of the > extended tiller. Now you can make minute corrections to your course > rather than sail in "S" bends, as was previously the case. > > Extending the tiller to about 54" in length, also gives you very > excellent control when a gust hits; and I had enough gusts yesterday to > give me a very good test of the idea. > > After my initial test voyage yesterday, the conclusion is that I want the > longer tiller. The open question is how do I attatch the extension to > the standard tiller so that it is easily removable. I've got some ideas > and will play with those as a next step. > > I will also change the tiller angle to raise the forward end about > another 1 to 2 inches: it makes for easier holding and sailing. You are > not reaching down to your knees to hold the tiller. > > You, as I understood you, were going to make a new tiller to the length > you required. > > I am going to go my route of having a tiller extension available to play > with first, and then, after having lived with it for some time, maybe I > too, will feel that a new long tiller with the proper height at the > forward end will be the ultimate way to go. > > But even with my primative lash-up, it is a big step forward in sailing > comfort, control, and feel. > > Connie > M15 #400 LEPPO > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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RE: M_Boats: Tiller extension
by Morris, Giles 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

> how much do they cost? About sixty bucks, depending. Seems quite the deal when you consider how hard they would be to make. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=201 &prrfnbr=118646&outlet= Giles Morris -----Original Message----- From: rc2222(a)postoffice.pacbell.net [mailto:rc2222@postoffice.pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 4:14 PM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extension Tom: Why not just buy a J24 Tiller, how much do they cost? I'm not capable of of building one. Regarding night sailing on the M15. The only time I tried it-I grounded in a hotbed of night bugs. It was awful. Now I make sure I'm anchored or tied up before nightfall. Rich Cottrell "Smith, Tom" wrote: > The M15's short tiller is awkward with an extension in many situations. Thanks for doing the experiment and coming up with a 54 inch starting place. It would be a nice winter project to glue up and shape a new tiller with a rise similar to the stock J24 tiller... > > Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle > Sandpoint, Idaho > M15-345, Chukar > > -----Original Message----- > From: Conbert H Benneck [mailto:chbenneck@juno.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 8:13 AM > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tiller extension > > Hi John, > > Your comment about wanting to make a longer tiller for your M15 got me > thinking too. > > My present set-up left a lot to be desired; even using the Forespar > tiller extension. > This worked - after a fashion - but the geometry was all wrong. You were > trying to control the boat, sitting in the forward corner of the cockpit > with the Forespar Tiller Extension to tiller connection, via an obtuse > angle, which didn't give the control or the feel that I like. > > So, your comment about making a longer tiller had me grabbing a suitable > piece of pine in my shop, and I built a new tiller extension, as a > mock-up to try out the concept > > Part of my design involved length - the tiller end now is about 2 inches > forward of the sail locker lid. > > The second change was to cut the aft end of my extension at a shallow > angle, raising the front of the tiller by about 3 inches, to make it > easier to reach and to hold. > > This is just a mock-up to test the idea. I fastened the tiller extension > to the tiller with a length of bungee cord and tried it our yesterday. > > Initial reaction: > > Great improvment over the existing tiller. I can sit in the forward > corner of the cockpit, and can easily hold the extended tiller with two > fingers. > > Steering control is vastly improved through the longer lever arm of the > extended tiller. Now you can make minute corrections to your course > rather than sail in "S" bends, as was previously the case. > > Extending the tiller to about 54" in length, also gives you very > excellent control when a gust hits; and I had enough gusts yesterday to > give me a very good test of the idea. > > After my initial test voyage yesterday, the conclusion is that I want the > longer tiller. The open question is how do I attatch the extension to > the standard tiller so that it is easily removable. I've got some ideas > and will play with those as a next step. > > I will also change the tiller angle to raise the forward end about > another 1 to 2 inches: it makes for easier holding and sailing. You are > not reaching down to your knees to hold the tiller. > > You, as I understood you, were going to make a new tiller to the length > you required. > > I am going to go my route of having a tiller extension available to play > with first, and then, after having lived with it for some time, maybe I > too, will feel that a new long tiller with the proper height at the > forward end will be the ultimate way to go. > > But even with my primative lash-up, it is a big step forward in sailing > comfort, control, and feel. > > Connie > M15 #400 LEPPO > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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RE: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15
by Smith, Tom 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

And my thanks to everyone who weighed in on the portable lights. I wasn't aware I didn't need running lights at night, but if I'm caught out, I would certainly prefer to have them. I'll check out the WM stuff, and look at all the other suggestions as well. Thanks again everybody. T Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar -----Original Message----- From: Conbert H Benneck [mailto:chbenneck@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 8:20 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15 Thanks for all your responses to my battery selection problem and all your excellent inputs and ideas. Now you're going to make me work sorting out all the pros and cons of the various suggestions! But thanks again for expanding my horizon and widening the palette of choices. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15
by Conbert H Benneck 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

Thanks for all your responses to my battery selection problem and all your excellent inputs and ideas. Now you're going to make me work sorting out all the pros and cons of the various suggestions! But thanks again for expanding my horizon and widening the palette of choices. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO

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Re: M_Boats: Tiller extension
by Conbert H Benneck 20 Aug '02

20 Aug '02

Hi John, Your comment about wanting to make a longer tiller for your M15 got me thinking too. My present set-up left a lot to be desired; even using the Forespar tiller extension. This worked - after a fashion - but the geometry was all wrong. You were trying to control the boat, sitting in the forward corner of the cockpit with the Forespar Tiller Extension to tiller connection, via an obtuse angle, which didn't give the control or the feel that I like. So, your comment about making a longer tiller had me grabbing a suitable piece of pine in my shop, and I built a new tiller extension, as a mock-up to try out the concept Part of my design involved length - the tiller end now is about 2 inches forward of the sail locker lid. The second change was to cut the aft end of my extension at a shallow angle, raising the front of the tiller by about 3 inches, to make it easier to reach and to hold. This is just a mock-up to test the idea. I fastened the tiller extension to the tiller with a length of bungee cord and tried it our yesterday. Initial reaction: Great improvment over the existing tiller. I can sit in the forward corner of the cockpit, and can easily hold the extended tiller with two fingers. Steering control is vastly improved through the longer lever arm of the extended tiller. Now you can make minute corrections to your course rather than sail in "S" bends, as was previously the case. Extending the tiller to about 54" in length, also gives you very excellent control when a gust hits; and I had enough gusts yesterday to give me a very good test of the idea. After my initial test voyage yesterday, the conclusion is that I want the longer tiller. The open question is how do I attatch the extension to the standard tiller so that it is easily removable. I've got some ideas and will play with those as a next step. I will also change the tiller angle to raise the forward end about another 1 to 2 inches: it makes for easier holding and sailing. You are not reaching down to your knees to hold the tiller. You, as I understood you, were going to make a new tiller to the length you required. I am going to go my route of having a tiller extension available to play with first, and then, after having lived with it for some time, maybe I too, will feel that a new long tiller with the proper height at the forward end will be the ultimate way to go. But even with my primative lash-up, it is a big step forward in sailing comfort, control, and feel. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO

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Re: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 19 Aug '02

19 Aug '02

Dik, I use the same size battery to power a trolling motor on our P-15. It's perfect for launching and retrieval. To recharge it, I use and extra trolling plug with bare leads that I fasten the charger to, thus avoiding digging out the battery. One of the leads is significantly shorter than the other to avoid inadvertently shorting out the system. Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 "Amy Ann" In a message dated 8/19/2002 10:27:59 AM Central Standard Time, diklang32(a)hotmail.com writes: > I am using a west marine 35 amp hour marine battery that is completely > sealed and cannot spill, costs 75 bucks. The davis anchor light has a dusk > to dawn feature and uses less than one ampere hour for the whole night. an > interior l.e.d. "courtesy light and a tri color masthead that I almost > never > use. the combined power means I remove and recharge the battery very > infrequently, works well. > Dik Lang > Sweet Pea "m-17" >

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Re: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15
by dik lang 19 Aug '02

19 Aug '02

I am using a west marine 35 amp hour marine battery that is completely sealed and cannot spill, costs 75 bucks. The davis anchor light has a dusk to dawn feature and uses less than one ampere hour for the whole night. an interior l.e.d. "courtesy light and a tri color masthead that I almost never use. the combined power means I remove and recharge the battery very infrequently, works well. Dik Lang Sweet Pea "m-17" >From: Sandyal55(a)aol.com >Reply-To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: Re: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15 >Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 18:41:54 EDT > >Connie; > Your motorcycle battery sounds like a good lightweight plan with >only >one drawback. A good MC battery is 80-100 bucks. My Honda 1100 Shadow's is >around $90. A SMALL car battery is maybe $40 and only weighs 25lbs (a >guess). The amp hours will also be a lot longer for the car battery. > Another post mentioned not needing lights on a 15. True, for a true >sailboat, but if you have an engine mounted, lights are required for night >sailing and motoring. > Have you ever sailed to Manhasset Bay and stayed at the Riviera >Marina. I was raised on a boat there in the '60's. We had a 1929 50' Elco >Flattop. It was a good life. > >Sandy _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

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Re: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15
by Harvey Wilson 19 Aug '02

19 Aug '02

>>I intend to buy a motorcycle battery. They are about 3 1/2 inches wide x 6 to 7 inches long x 7 inches high - depending on model and capacity.<< Hi Connie.. I use an X-Power emergency power generator that I got from W-M. A more expensive option then your solution, but it comes with a 300 W a/c inverter, 12V c-lighter outlet, 2 bulb flourescent lamp and a pair of jumper connectors for starting car or big OB motor. It uses an 18 AH sealed battery. FWIW, they sell a small battery box for batteries as used in riding lawn mowers. Harvey/ Ga M-17 Stargazer #294

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Re: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15
by Harvey Wilson 19 Aug '02

19 Aug '02

Hi Sandy.. WalMart sells batteries for riding lawn mowers for about $20...about half the size of a goup 24 auto battery. Not agood sealed battery, but workable. Harvey/Ga M-17 Stargazer #294

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Re: M_Boats: Lights for a juiceless M15
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 18 Aug '02

18 Aug '02

In a message dated 8/17/02 10:38:42 AM Central Daylight Time, chbenneck(a)juno.com writes: > I intend to buy a motorcycle battery. They are about 3 1/2 inches wide x > 6 to 7 inches long x 7 inches high - depending on model and capacity. > Connie, You know, for about the same money you could get a gel cell or even an AGM. I have a 4 aH gel cell small enough to fit in a fanny pack, that I use to power a bicycle headlamp. It's been very durable, and came from Lowe's! Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 "Amy Ann"

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