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Re: [Fractint] Why are we still holding on to Fractint?
by Jim Muth 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

At 09:18 AM 10/17/02 -0400, Tony Parker wrote: <snipped> >It's interesting that there is still a significant group of >folk who still prefer using fractint to "create" fractal >images,... Your use of the word 'create' indicates that you see fractals as a means of artistic expression. UF, with its capability for multiple layers, and its transforms and gradients, etc., is the better program for doing 'artistic' things with the underlying fractals, and as such is the program of choice of those who see themselves as fractal artists. On the other hand, I consider myself a fractal explorer and a fractal purist. I do not 'create' fractals; I 'find' them. I try to show as clearly as possible the things that complex numbers do when iterated. I do not want to show how, for artistic purposes, I can distort what the numbers have done. As a DOS program, Fractint is fast, and once the key strokes become familiar, very simple to use. I use it because it best does what I want to do with fractals. Also, the upgrades are frequent and free. Finally, though I use Fractint, I have nothing against UF. Indeed, I sometimes use it to see what lies beyond the resolution limit of Fractint in some of my FOTD images. (Next FOTD in 13 hours!) Jim M.

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Re: [Fractint] Re: Fractint on XP
by Hans-Joachim Metzger 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

Hi, Bill, I choose to install XP with the NTFS file system. Since DOS is using the FAT (= file allocation table) system, booting to DOS in fact is resulting in not acknowledging any NTFS drives or partitions. However, this is not affecting the use of Virtual PC! Far as I can see, within or under this virtual machine DOS is running as it always did. (I suppose it would not be different with a FAT-based XP.) Virtual PC is installed and started under and from Windows. As soon as you start it, you can either use your floppy or CD ROM drive (I also use ZIP drives, but did not manage to access them under Virtual PC) to install programs. Another and/or additional option is to configure a second virtual disk - which under Windows is nothing but a directory - to access and exchange files. This is rather convenient. Hans-Joachim > Hans, > You've had better luck than I have getting Fractint to run on XP. I have just learned that XP can be installed as either NTFS or > FAT. My installation is NTFS, which is why I do not see the C: drive when I boot to DOS. > Is your machine FAT? Also, do you know how running Virtual PC would affect this? Thanks. Bill Rossi http://members.aol.com/billatny http:www.arts4u.org/rossi _______________________________________________ Fractint mailing list Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- Sender: fractint-admin(a)mailman.xmission.com Received: from mailman.xmission.com (mailman.xmission.com [198.60.22.29]) by siaag1ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.18) with ESMTP id OAA25815; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mailman.xmission.com) by mailman.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 182F5v-00034I-00; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:10:03 -0600 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by mailman.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 182F4w-00033j-00 for <fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com>; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:09:02 -0600 Received: from BillatNY(a)aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.13.) id p.17e.1059a9dc (16097) for <fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com>; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web27 (web27.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.3]) by air-id11.mx.aol.com (v89.12) with ESMTP id MAILINID111-1017140828; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:08:28 -0400 From: BillatNY(a)aol.com Subject: Re: [Fractint] Re: Fractint on XP To: <fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <17e.1059a9dc.2ae0569c(a)aol.com> Sender: fractint-admin(a)mailman.xmission.com Errors-To: fractint-admin(a)mailman.xmission.com X-BeenThere: fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com List-Help: <mailto:fractint-request@mailman.xmission.com?subject=help> List-Post: <mailto:fractint@mailman.xmission.com> List-Subscribe: <http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint>, <mailto:fractint-request@mailman.xmission.com?subject=subscribe> List-Id: Fractint and General Fractals Discussion <fractint.mailman.xmission.com> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint>, <mailto:fractint-request@mailman.xmission.com?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mailman.xmission.com/pipermail/fractint/> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:08:28 EDT <

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Re: [Fractint] Re: Fractint on XP
by nick.grasso＠hrads.com 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

Hans-Joachim wrote: >>>As far as running makefcfg is concerned, you're, of course, right, I did run it in Virtual PC DOS. Obviously, that's the way to do it. (But I haven't figured out why some resolutions could not be generated. You would have expected to be able to see these resolutions on a S3 card, right?)<<< Hello Hans-Joachim, Yes, I would have expected this to work and I'm sorry to hear that it doesn't because I had hoped to run fractint at 1600x1200 under Virtual PC. Maybe it's just a problem with the makecfg program? Maybe if you knew the correct parameters, you could enter them into fractint.cfg by hand? I'm sure that the S3 does support 1600x1200. Do you have any other DOS apps that use 1600x1200 that you could try? I just got my new scanner yesterday and got it working this morning. This was the last thing that was keeping me from upgrading to XP. I am probably still a few weeks away from completing the upgrade and trying Virtual PC, but of course I will post my findings when I do. Nick

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Re: [Fractint] Re: Fractint on XP
by Hans-Joachim Metzger 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

Nick, thanks for your useful remarks on VMware and Virtual PC 5.0. Maybe I'll give 5.0 a try - with a trial version first. As far as running makefcfg is concerned, you're, of course, right, I did run it in Virtual PC DOS. Obviously, that's the way to do it. (But I haven't figured out why some resolutions could not be generated. You would have expected to be able to see these resolutions on a S3 card, right?) Hans-Joachim > Did you run makecfg in Virtual PC DOS? I'm almost certain that is the correct > thing to do. The VESA modes on your NVidia don't matter at all in Virtual PC. It > simulates all the DOS/VESA graphics in software (using DirectX). It simulates an > S3 card, so Fractint thinks it is running on an S3. Has anybody written a > fractint cfg entry for 1600x1200 for the S3? > You should try Virtual PC 5.0. Many people complained that version 4 was slow > and they claim to have greatly speeded it up in version 5. > VMware is very similar to Virtual PC in the way it works. They concentrate more > on enterprise features, e.g., they have better support for networks and SCSI > devices. It also costs $100 more. However, I don't think their DOS support is as > good. They may not support VESA or SVGA at all. It is unclear from their web > site. _______________________________________________ Fractint mailing list Fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- Sender: fractint-admin(a)mailman.xmission.com Received: from mailman.xmission.com (mailman.xmission.com [198.60.22.29]) by siaag2ad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.18) with ESMTP id NAA10531; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=mailman.xmission.com) by mailman.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 182E0w-0007Yy-00; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:00:50 -0600 Received: from [65.170.34.101] (helo=hrads.com) by mailman.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 182Dzh-0006Lb-00 for <fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com>; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:59:33 -0600 Received: from [100.100.1.17] (HELO svr_notes.hrads.com) by hrads.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.5.9) with SMTP id 1502947 for fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:59:01 -0400 Received: by svr_notes.hrads.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.7 (934.1 12-30-1999)) id 85256C55.005D529F ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:59:19 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: GBE From: nick.grasso(a)hrads.com To: fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <85256C55.005D5146.00(a)svr_notes.hrads.com> Subject: Re: [Fractint] Re: Fractint on XP Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: fractint-admin(a)mailman.xmission.com Errors-To: fractint-admin(a)mailman.xmission.com X-BeenThere: fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: fractint(a)mailman.xmission.com List-Help: <mailto:fractint-request@mailman.xmission.com?subject=help> List-Post: <mailto:fractint@mailman.xmission.com> List-Subscribe: <http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint>, <mailto:fractint-request@mailman.xmission.com?subject=subscribe> List-Id: Fractint and General Fractals Discussion <fractint.mailman.xmission.com> List-Unsubscribe: <http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fractint>, <mailto:fractint-request@mailman.xmission.com?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://mailman.xmission.com/pipermail/fractint/> Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:59:16 -0400 <

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Re: [Fractint] Why are we still holding on to Fractint?
by BillatNY＠aol.com 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

I write formulas using the function variables fn1 - fn4. It's then very easy to simply hit Z and keep plugging in different functions and seeing what happens. I can try hundreds of combinations in a relatively short time. Bill Rossi <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/billatny">http://members.aol.com/billatny</A> <A HREF="http://www.arts4u.org/rossi">http://www.arts4u.org/rossi</A>

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FOTD 16 Oct 2002
by John Lewis 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

Why should Mandlebrot object? :-) John -- John Lewis, jlewis(a)clara.net on 17/10/2002

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Why are we still holding on to Fractint?
by Lee Skinner 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

<< I'd like to hear some you other fractolieri's reasons for remaining <<with fractint. Its browser. Lee

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Why are we still holding on to Fractint?
by Bill Jemison 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

<< I'd like to hear some you other fractolieri's reasons for remaining <<with fractint. It's music/sound capabilities. Bill

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Re: [Fractint] Why are we still holding on to Fractint?
by nick.grasso＠hrads.com 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

Tony Parker wrote: >>>It's interesting that there is still a significant group of folk who still prefer using fractint to "create" fractal images, rather than moving on "completely" to UF 2/3. I'd like to hear some you other fractolieri's reasons for remaining with fractint.<<< Well, UF is a great program with many features that fractint doesn't have. However, fractint has features that are missing in UF. One that immediately comes to mind is fractint's support for orbit fractals, e.g., pickover and icons, which I really like. Also, I like the ability to switch resolutions. For example, I run Windows at 1152x864 but I often like to see fractals at 1600x1200. I think it is possible for a Windows program to do this by using DirectX, but I don't think UF supports it. I have just recently downloaded the UF 3 evaluation and am not too familiar with it, so my comments are based on ver. 2. Nick

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Re: [Fractint] Re: Fractint on XP
by nick.grasso＠hrads.com 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

Hans-Joachim Metzger wrote: >>>I've been experimenting with running Virtual PC 4.3 under XP to find out whether or not I'd be able to make full use of my Pentium4 2 GHz/512 MB RAM machine to accelerate Fractint fractal calculations.<<< Thank you for posting your experience with Virtual PC! I have not yet tried it, but I have a few comments. >>>Having applied the makefcfg utility to sort out possible VESA problems with my NVidia GeForce4 MX 460 graphics card, I have been able to generate the following resolutions for Fractint (running under DOS under Virtual PC under Windows XP):<<< Did you run makecfg in Virtual PC DOS? I'm almost certain that is the correct thing to do. The VESA modes on your NVidia don't matter at all in Virtual PC. It simulates all the DOS/VESA graphics in software (using DirectX). It simulates an S3 card, so Fractint thinks it is running on an S3. Has anybody written a fractint cfg entry for 1600x1200 for the S3? >>>Even calculations of 640x480x256 fractals turned out to be considerably slower than on my Pentium III 700 and 800 MHz PCs. Maybe, there is a way to reconfigure DOS under Virtual PC. I have applied old autoexec.bat and config.sys values from way back when I was really still using DOS, but could not achieve any signficant accelerations.<<< You should try Virtual PC 5.0. Many people complained that version 4 was slow and they claim to have greatly speeded it up in version 5. >>>Has anyone ever tried VMware Workstation? Since it is a virtual machine software letting you run multiple operating systems (like, for instance, Windows and Linux) on a single piece of hardware, maybe it is more useful for running Fractint on modern machines than Virtual PC is.<<< VMware is very similar to Virtual PC in the way it works. They concentrate more on enterprise features, e.g., they have better support for networks and SCSI devices. It also costs $100 more. However, I don't think their DOS support is as good. They may not support VESA or SVGA at all. It is unclear from their web site. Nick

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