January 2003 - USR-TC - mailman.xmission.com

Ameritech/SBC chronic billing problems
by Scott M. Trautman 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

Hi Everyone. If you have nothing to do with Ameritech or SBC and aren't an ISP, well, then you can hit delete right now. I've been on this list for years, and yes, I'm aware that this is a USR/Commworks list, and this is not an equipment issue. This is an ISP issue, and, the time has come for those of us that have been abused by SBC/Ameritech to band together on this one issue. Hang together, hang separately. SBC is counting on the latter I would believe. So - you're still reading -is this applicable to you: - chronic billing problems - over a year? - inability to be billed correctly for some/all accounts - accounts that were billing just fine suddenly are not for no good reason. Contract rates changed from say 60 mo to 12mo in the middle of the term. - inability to have even new service billed correctly - multiple indecipherable corrections that make it impossible to know for sure whether you have or are now being billed correctly - intimidation, threats, intimations that service might be shut off, even by "accident" if not paid for regardless to it being incorrect - unresponsive sales/billing reps/management, or promises made but not kept (all verbal of course) - inordinate time spent with different people each time, explaining entire situation, to find no action and a new rep to start all over again - blame chronically put on 3rd parties (resellers), "error corrections" (that no one ever seems to check interestly), someone that isn't there anymore, etc. - felt you needed to pay just so no "accidents" occured to your service and hence your livlihood. - to a larger degree do not have a choice for service providers, and/or contractual restrictions prohibit ability to find an alternate service that can bill correctly - FUNCTIONING of the service ITSELF is NOT the issue here. Do NOT BITCH TO ME ABOUT YOUR dial, T1, cat in the hat idiot support issues. This is about BILLING, about "the money" & SBC/Ameritech SPECIFICALLY. You want to start your own parade, hey, I'll be happy to fall in behind, but this one has one purpose. LISTEN CLOSE. This is SERIOUS, I have retained legal representation and am going into battle. Many ISP's I have talked to have experienced the exact same thing. In fact every one of them here in Wisconsin below "bullying" size. Fancy that.. Whether it has been "corrected finally" or not, surely you spent a huge amount of unproductive time attempting to straighten your account out. And time IS MONEY. This is NOT A BITCH SESSION. I have ZERO INTEREST in hearing about anything unless it has a factual, documentable basis, and you have an interest in pursuing this as a part of a group. I am sick to death of bitching, now is the time for action. This is a one trick pony, I have no interest in anyone's business secrets, or whatever paranoid delusions one might have, I want SBC nailed, period. You want that too, let's talk. And-I don't want to find out you dicked around because you didn't have the money to pay. I always have had the money to pay, that cannot be used against me. No, I don't have time for this either. Yes, my livlihood is being stolen minute by minute having to deal with this rather than revenue generating activities in this extremely fast paced reactive business. What do I want out of this? Frankly, money; it's cost me an incredible amount in opportunity costs & seriously affected my personal life in the powerlessness I feel in a critical portion of my life. Ultimately all SBC understands IS money. There are some suggestions that RICO (Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations) laws may well apply here. Defective products: billing is an integral part of the product, and is unable to be billed correctly, far beyond any lemon law standards, therefore the product is defective & should not be paid for. There may well even be some SEC issues as to how their revenue is recognized, and when. Obviously "just my billing issue", no. But collectively? Hmmmm. Interesting way of overstating income possibly; moving it around within certain periods to meet goals, incentives, news releases, stock advice: All possible reasons for manipulation. Collectively, questions can be posed that would prove a concerted effort on SBC's part to harrass ISP's, especially the small ones that can't afford to dedicate massive efforts into wearing out SBC on these problems, or previously to this, legal, legislative, political & public types of actions. There are night-and-day differences between how non-competitive customers are treated and ISP's, particularlly small ones that they can bully. I'm sorry to use this list for this purpose, but time is of the essence. I spent two hours thinking this through I didn't have to give. I AM betting my business and "the farm" (I DO live on a 40 acre farm in Wisconsin!) on this it's that important. SBC pushed me one too many times, now it's time for me to push back. Please contact me off-list with serious inquiries only. All will be held confidential by me until such point as you'd say okay, I'm in. Thanks for your time. Scott Trautman President/Owner www.gdinet.com Global Dialog Internet 608-240-4638,7fax 2049 Skaalen Road scott(a)gdinet.com Stoughton WI 53589 Internet Service across Southern Wisconsin

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RE: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco
by Joel - Fox Computers 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

Again, however, I go back to this - if it's showing a light but you only get dead air - that's the exact behavior I experienced when the telco stopped sending me MF tones - the DSP's just sat there and waited for them. If the modems are actually down - I wouldn't expect you to get a light and dead air, but rather a busy signal and no light. Other than that, or restoring defaults, I'm outta ideas without looking at it. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Hemsley [mailto:kev@ida.net] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:51 PM To: usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco It does show a light when a call is attempted. These Hiper DSPs were all in production. They were just upgraded to TCS 4.5 so I think the cards are fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kris McElroy" <kris.mcelroy(a)duracom.net> To: <usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco > When you call and get dead air does the Hiper DSP show a light on the front > for any usage? If it does show a light, when this happened to me it was the > Hiper DSP NAC that was bad. > > > Thanks, > > > Kris McElroy > kmcelroy(a)duracom.net > > Internet Systems Engineer > Duracom, INC. > www.duracom.net > > > "I'm retired 99.9%. Of course, there always is that .1%." > --Michael Jordan, February 18, 1999 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Hemsley" <kev(a)ida.net> > To: <usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco > > > > > Have you confirmed whether or not the telco is sending you dnis/ani? > > > > No, the telcon is not sending DNIS or ANI. > > > > >By the way....what do you get when you dial-in to the site? Busies/fast > > busies/dead air? > > > > Dead Air - then after a long pause you get a recording "All circuits are > > busy" The CO tech said that because they are sending a sizure and are > > getting no answer back, they are dropping the call and going on to the > next > > trunk. > > > > Thanks, > > Kevin Hemsley > > kev(a)ida.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > USR-TC mailing list > > USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > USR-TC mailing list > USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc > _______________________________________________ USR-TC mailing list USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc

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RE: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco
by Joel - Fox Computers 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

I would agree - restore defaults on the DSP, set it up again, and if still not working erase the config on the ARC and redo it. -----Original Message----- From: Kris McElroy [mailto:kris.mcelroy@duracom.net] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:55 PM To: usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco Have you restored the DSP back to the factory settings per commworks knowledge base. Then Re Configured them to your Telco Settings? Thanks, Kris McElroy kmcelroy(a)duracom.net Internet Systems Engineer Duracom, INC. www.duracom.net "I'm retired 99.9%. Of course, there always is that .1%." --Michael Jordan, February 18, 1999 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Hemsley" <kev(a)ida.net> To: <usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco > It does show a light when a call is attempted. These Hiper DSPs were all in > production. They were just upgraded to TCS 4.5 so I think the cards are > fine. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kris McElroy" <kris.mcelroy(a)duracom.net> > To: <usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 12:40 PM > Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco > > > > When you call and get dead air does the Hiper DSP show a light on the > front > > for any usage? If it does show a light, when this happened to me it was > the > > Hiper DSP NAC that was bad. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Kris McElroy > > kmcelroy(a)duracom.net > > > > Internet Systems Engineer > > Duracom, INC. > > www.duracom.net > > > > > > "I'm retired 99.9%. Of course, there always is that .1%." > > --Michael Jordan, February 18, 1999 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kevin Hemsley" <kev(a)ida.net> > > To: <usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:34 PM > > Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco > > > > > > > > Have you confirmed whether or not the telco is sending you dnis/ani? > > > > > > No, the telcon is not sending DNIS or ANI. > > > > > > >By the way....what do you get when you dial-in to the site? Busies/fast > > > busies/dead air? > > > > > > Dead Air - then after a long pause you get a recording "All circuits are > > > busy" The CO tech said that because they are sending a sizure and are > > > getting no answer back, they are dropping the call and going on to the > > next > > > trunk. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Kevin Hemsley > > > kev(a)ida.net > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > USR-TC mailing list > > > USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > USR-TC mailing list > > USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc > > > > > _______________________________________________ > USR-TC mailing list > USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc > _______________________________________________ USR-TC mailing list USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc

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RE: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco
by Joel - Fox Computers 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

If telco is not sending either dnis or ani, then your number of tones has to be 0. Make sure and save that setting, hardware reset the card, and then make sure it's still 0. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Hemsley [mailto:kev@ida.net] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:34 PM To: usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco > Have you confirmed whether or not the telco is sending you dnis/ani? No, the telcon is not sending DNIS or ANI. >By the way....what do you get when you dial-in to the site? Busies/fast busies/dead air? Dead Air - then after a long pause you get a recording "All circuits are busy" The CO tech said that because they are sending a sizure and are getting no answer back, they are dropping the call and going on to the next trunk. Thanks, Kevin Hemsley kev(a)ida.net _______________________________________________ USR-TC mailing list USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc

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RE: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco
by Joel - Fox Computers 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

slot 4 looks to be set up wrong - showing only 23 ports - or is there a PRI on that slot? -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Hemsley [mailto:kev@ida.net] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 12:26 PM To: usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco >yes - if the Hiper ARC does not have ownership of the DSP's, they won't answer. > >Also, if you have your DTMF tones set to 4, and the telco doesn't send them, the DSP will sit there and wait and not reply until it >receives them, so the call dies. Yes the ARC does have onership. There are only 4 DSPs installed and only 3 active: tc-sm1> list chassis Slot Owner Description Ports Type Console 1 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 DYNAMIC YES 2 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 DYNAMIC YES 3 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 DYNAMIC YES 4 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 23 DYNAMIC YES 5 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 6 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 7 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 8 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 9 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 10 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 11 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 12 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 13 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 14 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 15 YES 24 Channel High Density Modem 24 STATIC NO 16 YES HiPer Access Router NAC 0 DYNAMIC NO Thanks, Kevin Hemsley kev(a)ida.net _______________________________________________ USR-TC mailing list USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc

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ELIMINAR
by Intercom - Roberto Ravetti 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

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Looking for QUADs
by WayneG 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

I'm looking for some "QUAD V.34 ANLG/DIG" Modem cards and especially the backs for them that have the double daughter cards installed. Anyone have some collecting dust somewhere? Thank you, -Wayne Wayne Griswold Network Administrator U.P.Logon Internet Computer Connection U.P. (906) 774-4847 work (906) 396-3172 cell (906) 774-0335 fax SysAdmin(a)uplogon.com

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RE: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco
by Joel - Fox Computers 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

CT1's or PRI's??? -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Hemsley [mailto:kev@ida.net] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:42 AM To: usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco We just upgraded one of our small POPs from Quad modems and NetServers to HiperDSPs and HiperArcs. I have configured the HiperDSPs like the T1 cards were but we aren't taking calls. The telco sends us a siezure and gets no answer back. The switch is a DMS10. The CO tech said he is seeing the following: Trunk 17 Message: Sender timeout occured durring selection of an outgoing trunk. They don't see answer supervision back, so they drop the call. I have tried changing Signal Modes, adjusting the E&MII timers with the telco, but nothing seems to work. I would appreciate any feedback ff anyone has any ideas. My DSP cards are configured like this: Framing Mode dsx1D4 Line Coding Options dsx1AMI Circuit Identifier Loopback Configuration dsx1NoLoop Signal Mode robbedBit Transmit Clock Source loopTiming NIC Type longHaul Response to Remote Loopback respond Jitter Attenuation attenJitterOnTxmtr Transmit Line Build Out dB0pt0 Dial In Address noAddress Dial In/Out Trunk Start Signal Type wink Ack Wink On Dial In Address Info Received enabled Dial Out Address Delay 70 Dial In/Out Trunk Type eAndMTypeII Primary Switch Type priSwDMS100 Idle Byte Pattern 254 Receiver Gain dB26 Tone Type mf Number of DTMF Tones 4 Send Code dsx1SendNoCode External Signaling Mode (will take effect next boot) none Overlap Receiving Mode disable Overlap Receiving Inbound Digits Expected 12 Overlap Receiving Timeout Delay 12 Answer Supervision Delay Time. 11 E-lead Disconnect Debounce Time 30 Telco Disconnect Sanity Time 10 Wink Duration 20 V42->WAN Disconnect Delay Time 0 Telco init Disconnect Delay Time 0 Seizure to Wink Delay Time 22 Thanks, Kevin Hemsley kev(a)ida.net

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RE: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco
by Joel - Fox Computers 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

yes - if the Hiper ARC does not have ownership of the DSP's, they won't answer. Also, if you have your DTMF tones set to 4, and the telco doesn't send them, the DSP will sit there and wait and not reply until it receives them, so the call dies. -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Hemsley [mailto:kev@ida.net] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 12:11 PM To: usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco Could this be a HiperArc configuration problem causing the calls to not be taken? Thanks, Kevin Hemsley kev(a)ida.net _______________________________________________ USR-TC mailing list USR-TC(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/usr-tc

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RE: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco
by Joel - Fox Computers 24 Jan '03

24 Jan '03

change the "Number of DTMF tones" to 0 and see if it answers then -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Hemsley [mailto:kev@ida.net] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:42 AM To: usr-tc(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: [USR-TC] HiperDSPs not talking to Telco We just upgraded one of our small POPs from Quad modems and NetServers to HiperDSPs and HiperArcs. I have configured the HiperDSPs like the T1 cards were but we aren't taking calls. The telco sends us a siezure and gets no answer back. The switch is a DMS10. The CO tech said he is seeing the following: Trunk 17 Message: Sender timeout occured durring selection of an outgoing trunk. They don't see answer supervision back, so they drop the call. I have tried changing Signal Modes, adjusting the E&MII timers with the telco, but nothing seems to work. I would appreciate any feedback ff anyone has any ideas. My DSP cards are configured like this: Framing Mode dsx1D4 Line Coding Options dsx1AMI Circuit Identifier Loopback Configuration dsx1NoLoop Signal Mode robbedBit Transmit Clock Source loopTiming NIC Type longHaul Response to Remote Loopback respond Jitter Attenuation attenJitterOnTxmtr Transmit Line Build Out dB0pt0 Dial In Address noAddress Dial In/Out Trunk Start Signal Type wink Ack Wink On Dial In Address Info Received enabled Dial Out Address Delay 70 Dial In/Out Trunk Type eAndMTypeII Primary Switch Type priSwDMS100 Idle Byte Pattern 254 Receiver Gain dB26 Tone Type mf Number of DTMF Tones 4 Send Code dsx1SendNoCode External Signaling Mode (will take effect next boot) none Overlap Receiving Mode disable Overlap Receiving Inbound Digits Expected 12 Overlap Receiving Timeout Delay 12 Answer Supervision Delay Time. 11 E-lead Disconnect Debounce Time 30 Telco Disconnect Sanity Time 10 Wink Duration 20 V42->WAN Disconnect Delay Time 0 Telco init Disconnect Delay Time 0 Seizure to Wink Delay Time 22 Thanks, Kevin Hemsley kev(a)ida.net

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