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Putting a Telescoping Ladder on My Montgomery 15
by David Grah 17 Jun '13

17 Jun '13

Last winter I put a telescoping ladder on my Montgomery 15. I am happy how it came out and wrote up the installation process. I have tried to attach that as about a 3 megabyte pdf in case others are interested. The text without the photos is copied below. David Grah Bishop California Installation of Transom Ladder on Montgomery 15 Sailboat By David Grah Winter 2012 / 2013 For the few years we have had our 1986 Montgomery 15, we have used a removable ladder for getting back on the boat when we swim. Although it worked, the removable ladder was not very secure nor convenient to deploy and stow. I asked on the Montgomery sailboat discussion group for ladder suggestions and received some very good information. The group said to stay clear of ladders with only two mounting points because of the stress they would put on the transom and suggested a Garelick 18017 Marine Compact Two-Step Transom Ladder in particular as a good four point ladder. Dave Scobie also provided a link to his excellent page about installing transom backing plates for ladders and motor mounts on a Montgomery 15: http://www.sagemarine.us/forum/showthread.php?380-Installing-transom-backin… After looking into ladders a bit, I was concerned about how much the Garelick ladder might stick up above the top of the transom when stowed and liked the idea of a telescoping ladder. Since I live many hours drive from anywhere I could see ladders, I decided to buy both the Garelick and the telescoping ladder that looked best online to see which I liked best. The telescoping ladder was a Windline TT-3X Transom Mount Ladder. I bought both from Amazon. Here is a photo of the removable ladder and the two new ones, Garelick in the middle, Windline on the right: They are shown at the relative height they would be used on the boat. The Garelick was positioned so it wouldn't stick up “too far” about the transom of the boat. The telescoping ladder was positioned so it would fold up below the lip at the top of the transom. Note the removable ladder extended the farthest into the water followed by the telescoping ladder although the steps of the telescoping ladder came pretty close to matching the steps on the removable ladder. I wanted to use the telescoping ladder but needed to distribute the stress over more of the transom than the stock mounting brackets provided. I designed some larger mounting brackets, purchased a small piece of 12 gauge 316 stainless steel sheet on the internet, and had a local metal working shop cut and bend the two brackets for me. I drilled holes in the new brackets to match the holes in the new ladder: I bolted the new brackets on to the new ladder and put a backing nut on the bolt that went through the top hole on the ladder. This nut helps spread the stress from the small ladder over the full length of the new bracket and puts less stress on the transom: With the brackets in place on the telescoping ladder, the stress of the ladder is spread over an area larger than with the Garelick ladder: To prepare the transom for mounting the new ladder, I essentially followed the process David Scobie described. I added a West Marine access plate to the starboard cockpit seat behind the lazarette: Next I made a cardboard template of the plywood backing I would add to the transom: To get the cardboard to the inside surface of the transom, I found I had to cut it into two pieces. In addition, the upper part of the transom already had some thickness to it. This thickness was apparently foam sandwiched between inside and outside layers of fiberglass. I needed about a ¼ inch thick plywood to fill in below this. My plywood reinforcing for the transom became three pieces of ¼ inch plywood. The smallest one was to fill in for the foam thickness where it wasn't. The two longer pieces were to provide reinforcing over the large area I wanted to beef up. And the medium size pieces was to sort of hold the two longer pieces together: There is no place around here to get marine grade plywood. I found a scrap of nice 5 ply plywood at the local hardware store and, since I didn't have enough of this nice 5 ply stuff, also got some standard 3 ply CDX plywood. I used the CDX for the small piece that filled in below the foam and the 5 ply for the rest of the pieces. Here is another view of the pieces. They were cut to match the cardboard pieces I had made to fit into the transom: Generally following David Scobie's process, I epoxied the plywood in place a layer at a time. While the epoxy hardened I held the pieces in place with lengths of wood jammed between the transom and the back of the lazerette and with ropes looped through holes in the plywood and the transom and held tight with more pieces of wood. I found these methods worked pretty well: Once the plywood was in place, I drilled the mounting holes oversize, filled them with epoxy and re-drilled them. Two of the holes needed to be quite large to accommodate the nuts tightened to the back of the top holes on the ladder. I didn't do a good job with my initial placement of the top holes: I installed the ladder and drilled a hole through the deck to hull flange at the top of the transom to accept a bolt that is dropped in place to hold the ladder up when stowed. I wrapped a piece of bungee around the bottom rung of the ladder to keep it from rattling on the trailer (bungee not on yet): I am quite pleased with the installation both deployed and stowed:

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Re: M_Boats: M15 centerboard orientation in the trunk
by W David Scobie 16 Jun '13

16 Jun '13

George: attached is a simplified diagram showing how the centerboard is sitting when extended. the centerboard on the M15 will not come fully out as the forward edge of the board hits the forward end of the trunk. you don't want to sail the boat with the board hitting the forward end of the trunk. always support the board by the pennant. > Can any of the centerboard work be done in shallow > water thus preventing having to lift the boat? the board must be dropped to replace the pennant as you can't get to the hole where the pennant line is attached. the board, on the M15 and post late 80s M17s, is the same and only about 45-ish pounds. this is not a lot of weight for a 5/16" line. unless the line is damaged such showing wear or rot. the inner core of double braid is doing almost all the 'work', the outer part is for UV and wear protection of the inner core. the pennant is unlikely to need replacement except every 7-10 years. :: Dave Scobie --- On Sat, 6/15/13, George Iemmolo <griemmolo2(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Dave > > Does the CB as installed stay completely in the keel when > fully deployed or > does the trailing edge come out below the bottom of the > keel? Are their any > working diagrams on the keel/centerboard system? Can any of > the centerboard > work be done in shallow water thus preventing having to lift > the boat? > > George > Merry Helen M15 #602 > 'We Can Not Control the Wind > But We Can Adjust our Sails'

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How to replace a centerboard rope?
by Jim Dahlquist 16 Jun '13

16 Jun '13

I am considering a change to that would involve blocking the cockpit drain and running the rope through a stainless tube, but first want to know if the rope an be replaced from the bottom, but just pulling the rope up through the tube (using a wire for example). What is involved in replacing the lift rope? Jim Dahlquist Palatine, IL

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Porta potti measurement
by Tim Erwin 16 Jun '13

16 Jun '13

Hello from the Texas Redneck Riviera The year model of my boat is a 2007. There is a recess where the porta potti should fit, I assume. I would appreciate it if someone could save me some time and just tell me make and model that fits. Thanks Tim Erwin. 2007 m15. ( Dark Star ) # 641 Rockport, Texas

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Centerboard access
by Catherine G. Smith 16 Jun '13

16 Jun '13

Hi George, Maybe you won't need to snorkel to check your centerboard. I wish I could give the boat owner proper credit, but I just don't remember my source. Online I saw a photo of a sailboat and trailer up on those car lifter things that car guys use so they can work under the car. The trailer was braced so it could not roll off. Then the trailer did not have those rollers under the keel anymore...removable... the boat owner could remove the centerboard for maintenance. There was plenty of room. By the way, you must live close to my future son-in-law. His family has lived in Westville for several generations. Good luck, Cathy M17 Jo Marie #252

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First night out!
by Bill Wickett 16 Jun '13

16 Jun '13

Man, what a long spring. We got launched for the first time last Sunday. Now back on the west end of Lake Ontario this evening. Anchor is down in 11 feet in great sand bottom off of 50 Point beach. Stove is on, merlot is in the glass. No wind now. Was some light air earlier on so got an hour of 2 knot ghosting and unwinding from the week. Now dead calm, and any air is forcast from the shore side, so hoping for a nice night aboard. Standing by. Bill Makin Time M17 #622

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Mainsheet System
by George Iemmolo 10 Jun '13

10 Jun '13

I am having trouble (215 lbs & 81 yrs) getting entangled with the present setup of the M15 yoke Mainsheet when trying to lower my motor (3hp Yamaha):-( Giving thought to converting to a 4 part Mainsheet System attached at the same points presently used at mid boom and just in front of the hatch. Has any one tried this and how has it worked out? I am slightly concerned that the present Stern Yoke System may be giving the mast some support that it would normally receive from a backstay. Jerry M. any thoughts on that? George Merry Helen II M15 #602 'We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust our Sails'

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 123, Issue 2
by Csmithsquared＠aol.com 10 Jun '13

10 Jun '13

Thanks for the welcome and advice. As I've been so busy with my disassembly I haven't done anything about the v-berth yet. Will check out Interprotect 2000E as it must be a wonderful product. That might work on the top sides too. I discovered an epoxy product called PC 11 (at Ace Hardware-my new favorite place) that I used to fill in some crazing. I hope it is durable as it is a LOT easier to use than gelcoat. My search for a tough coating for the inside cabin top led me to Sherwin Williams where they recommended a two-part epoxy product they carry called Tile Doc. It is designed for refinishing worn fiberglass showers/tubs and tired tiles. The manager assured me that it can take a bit of flexing so I went with it. The interior is so clean looking now! I just hope it holds up to the stresses of sailing... I didn't paint it all the way to the seam as I might end up running a strip of fiberglass tape and sealing that joint all the way around. Krud Kutter is a great product for removing old sealant. I put some in an old peanut butter jar with nuts, bolts, hinges and other small parts let it work for a day or so and the icky stickies brush off easily. Ready Strip is an excellent gel coat safe paint stripper. I also discovered that if you leave it on a paintbrush that might be a little stiff from old paint that paint thinner just couldn't clean, it will rejuvenate the brush. Just give it time and keep it moist. Also, when I was doing that miserable sanding, I had the whole haz-mat look going on! Glad it was still cool-wouldn't want to have on that many duds now. Hoping to sail soon and continue renovations while keeping her sea worthy. Thanks for the help. Cathy In a message dated 5/5/2013 2:37:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com writes: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: steering M15 with motor (Conbert Benneck) 2. Re: Ida rudder (jerry montgomery) 3. Re: Ida rudder (Tom Jenkins) 4. Re: Ida rudder (Rick Davies) 5. Re: Mystery sailboat (bownez(a)juno.com) 6. Re: Mystery sailboat (bownez(a)juno.com) 7. Re: Ida rudder (bownez(a)juno.com) 8. Re: Ida rudder (Larry E Yake) 9. Re: Ida rudder (Thomas Buzzi) 10. Re: Ida rudder (Thomas Buzzi) 11. Re: Ida rudder (bownez(a)juno.com) 12. Re: Ida rudder (Rick Davies) 13. Re: Ida rudder (Bruce Ward) 14. Re: Ida rudder (GILASAILR(a)aol.com) 15. M17 renovation questions (Csmithsquared(a)aol.com) 16. Re: M17 renovation questions (John Tyner) 17. Re: M17 renovation questions (Conbert Benneck) 18. Re: M17 renovation questions (GILASAILR(a)aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 16:53:33 -0400 From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor Message-ID: <518180CD.4020508(a)sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 01-May-13 3:38 PM, stevetrapp wrote: Hi John, If you are trying to "steer" an M15 using just the outboard, that works provided the M15 is moving through the water. Then you can steer using the outboard, however, if you shut off the outboard you will have "0" steering capability. The surface area of the outboard "leg" is too small to give you any sort of rudder control at low speeds. Using the rudder for directional control is a totally different operation. It has a large area underwater, and gives you excellent control at very slow speeds. I always used the rudder for steering the M15. Start the outboard, and then use the rudder for primary directional control. If you have to back out of a slip, then you will have to use the outboard to do that. Start the outboard; rotate it 180 degrees so that it is pulling you out of your slip; and as soon as you are clear of the dock and can turn the boat to head out, rotate the outboard so that it now drives you forward; and then use the rudder for primary directional control. Wind direction at your dock will also determine how you can leave your slip. If you are lucky enough that you have a slip where you have the prevailing wind on the bow, then you can unfasten your mooring lines, and give the M15 a push as you hop aboard. As your M15 is backed out, once clear of the pier, raise the jib and sail out on a broad reach. When totally clear of the dock area, then head into the wind and raise the main. This is easily doable with a bit of thought as to how to do it and with some practice. An M15 is small enough and light enough so that you can pretty much sail it into the slip, and stop the boat by grabbing the dock and act as a boat-brake. I'm afraid I don't understand what you are talking about when you say that the current in the Willamette River overpowers the rudder. Two fingers holding the tiller should let you point the M15 anywhere you would like to head in the river. The greater the water flow rate over the rudder surface, the better your control. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO > I think Fern Ridge is a better choice for sailing than the rivers, or other resevoirs. Good that you are sailing there. > Steve > M-15 # 335 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Ledger" <johnledger(a)aoi.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:04 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor > > > Hi Steve, > > Fern Ridge, Orchard Point. Haven't tried the Columbia yet. There's a lot going on on that river. > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stevetrapp > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 4:27 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor > > Where in Oregon are you sailing? I found the current on the Willamette River could sometimes overpower my rudder, more so on the Columbia River, on Dexter Resevoir or Detroit Lake it would depend on how much water was being released by the dams, but on Fern Ridge Resevoir things were calmer, but the marina is tight for space. > Steve > M-15 # 335 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Ledger" <johnledger(a)aoi.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:46 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor > > > Mark, > > Thanks, makes perfect sense. > > This is a very helpful forum. > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Mark Gaffney > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:49 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Subject: Re: M_Boats: steering M15 with motor > > John, your rudder will be slow to respond until you have enough water moving around it. My guess is by the time you do a loop, you have enough moving water to make your rudder responsive. This allows you to overcome the offset of your outboard. You just have a tight situation in your marina. I don't think you are doing anything wrong other than expecting the helm to react without adequate forward movement. It sounds like you have overcome the issue by doing a loop. > > Cheers, > > Mark > SF Bay > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6286 - Release Date: 04/30/13 > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6287 - Release Date: 04/30/13 > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 16:40:16 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <D4116CCF782D440DA1A00BE10E0E2AA9@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type="original" Could you have that backwards? We made most of the 17s with three-pintle setups, and I'm not totally sure but I think the Ida rudders have a "normal" two-pintle setup. At any rate I think I've got gudgeons; the kind that are a simple angled stainless sheet metal part that bolts to the transom. I'm leaving tomorrow morning for my Ma's 97th BD but I'll take my laptop. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:46 PM Subject: M_Boats: Ida rudder > Mr. Montgomery, > My Montgomery 17 was manufactured in 1978. I now have a chance to install > an Ida sailor rudder on it from a 2005 Montgomery 17. That setup uses > three > pintles whereas my older stock rudder model uses only two. Can a third be > added so this setup will work on my boat or is there some other > consideration that needs tending to? > You mentioned you have a stock of old parts. Do you have a set of the old > grugeon/pintle (s) available? > Regards, > Tom B > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 8493 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 01 May 2013 16:50:55 -0700 From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <B8A2F22B-3A07-49F5-A0EB-2629FCCAB317(a)gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jerry, My 2004 M17 has three pintles for the big sliding wood rudder, and my Ida Sailor rudder was designed to fit those three. I don't know if the company made an Ida for the older model (although nothing could be called "old" compared to your ma). On May 1, 2013, at 4:40 PM, jerry montgomery wrote: > Could you have that backwards? We made most of the 17s with three-pintle setups, and I'm not totally sure but I think the Ida rudders have a "normal" two-pintle setup. At any rate I think I've got gudgeons; the kind that are a simple angled stainless sheet metal part that bolts to the transom. > > I'm leaving tomorrow morning for my Ma's 97th BD but I'll take my laptop. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:46 PM > Subject: M_Boats: Ida rudder > > >> Mr. Montgomery, >> My Montgomery 17 was manufactured in 1978. I now have a chance to install >> an Ida sailor rudder on it from a 2005 Montgomery 17. That setup uses three >> pintles whereas my older stock rudder model uses only two. Can a third be >> added so this setup will work on my boat or is there some other >> consideration that needs tending to? >> You mentioned you have a stock of old parts. Do you have a set of the old >> grugeon/pintle (s) available? >> Regards, >> Tom B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 8493 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 22:55:39 -0400 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhb1Z4FFMd+CReD4JZ+-2_EzE6Swp0QTms8GAFbUKJctA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My IdaSailor rudder sounds like Tom's. it was made for a 2005 M17. Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Wednesday, May 1, 2013, Tom Jenkins wrote: > Jerry, > My 2004 M17 has three pintles for the big sliding wood rudder, and my Ida > Sailor rudder was designed to fit those three. I don't know if the company > made an Ida for the older model (although nothing could be called "old" > compared to your ma). > > On May 1, 2013, at 4:40 PM, jerry montgomery wrote: > > > Could you have that backwards? We made most of the 17s with > three-pintle setups, and I'm not totally sure but I think the Ida rudders > have a "normal" two-pintle setup. At any rate I think I've got gudgeons; > the kind that are a simple angled stainless sheet metal part that bolts to > the transom. > > > > I'm leaving tomorrow morning for my Ma's 97th BD but I'll take my laptop. > > > > jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" < > thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com <javascript:;>> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:46 PM > > Subject: M_Boats: Ida rudder > > > > > >> Mr. Montgomery, > >> My Montgomery 17 was manufactured in 1978. I now have a chance to > install > >> an Ida sailor rudder on it from a 2005 Montgomery 17. That setup uses > three > >> pintles whereas my older stock rudder model uses only two. Can a third > be > >> added so this setup will work on my boat or is there some other > >> consideration that needs tending to? > >> You mentioned you have a stock of old parts. Do you have a set of the > old > >> grugeon/pintle (s) available? > >> Regards, > >> Tom B > > > > > > -- > > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > > SPAMfighter has removed 8493 of my spam emails to date. > > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 03:01:45 GMT From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mystery sailboat Message-ID: <20130501.220145.28977.0(a)webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Doug, I think that may be the boat! (Victoria 18) Good work! Bones ____________________________________________________________ 1 Odd spice that FIGHTS diabetes Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight diabetes&#63 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5181d739cfd6557397950st02vuc ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 03:04:34 GMT From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mystery sailboat Message-ID: <20130501.220434.28977.1(a)webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 That's what I like about you Jerry, you tell it like it is..... Thank you for the input. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Better Than A Facelift&#63 Local Doctor Has Lazy Way To Look Years Younger in 17 Seconds http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5181d7f0d13ff57f04304st03vuc ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 03:08:12 GMT From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <20130501.220812.28977.2(a)webmail08.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Tom, That's odd, my 1976 M17 has three brackets (pintles?) on the transom. So does Larry Yakes. I thought only 2 were on the very early M17's, circa 1974. Bones ____________________________________________________________ 1 Odd spice that FIGHTS diabetes Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight diabetes&#63 http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5181d8e496cfe58e42877st02vuc ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 21:48:44 -0700 From: Larry E Yake <leyake(a)juno.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <20130501.214845.5876.0.leyake(a)juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually Bones, CornDog only has two. :-) It did not have the lifting rudder, but came with the original Lyle Hess design which had a stepped forward leading edge that reached under the skeg. Handled great, but eliminated the possibility of raising it. I replaced it with a Ida Sailor years ago and have been very happy with it. (Still just two pintles.) On Thu, 2 May 2013 03:08:12 GMT "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> writes: > Tom, > > That's odd, my 1976 M17 has three brackets (pintles?) on the > transom. So does Larry Yakes. > I thought only 2 were on the very early M17's, circa 1974. > > Bones > ____________________________________________________________ > 1 Odd spice that FIGHTS diabetes > Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and > fight diabetes&#63 > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5181d8e496cfe58e42877st02vuc > > > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 23:57:27 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <CA+TbpAXaqtM6f=GORFx7NN4P0EdOWbR-HG4D+Xw3dob=MB=uLg(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Bones, Yes, that is very odd. There are just the two grugeons and there doesn't appear to have been any more than that. The hull number definitely says 78' as the year built. Tom B On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:08 PM, bownez(a)juno.com <bownez(a)juno.com> wrote: > Tom, > > That's odd, my 1976 M17 has three brackets (pintles?) on the transom. So > does Larry Yakes. > I thought only 2 were on the very early M17's, circa 1974. > > Bones > ____________________________________________________________ > 1 Odd spice that FIGHTS diabetes > Can this unusual "super spice" control your blood sugar and fight > diabetes&#63 > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5181d8e496cfe58e42877st02vuc > > ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 00:10:51 -0500 From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <CA+TbpAW0hWOfVNs+uhUWiM98CE7m3Pa7xqCs+nUwHucYuDmL5w(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jerry, My boat has only the two grugeons. The Idasailor rudder has three pintle locations. I assume yours are stock items so the backset from the transom should match my existing ones and in that case I would like to purchase a grugeon from you. Thanks for your quick reply. Regards, Tom B On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 6:40 PM, jerry montgomery <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org>wrote: > Could you have that backwards? We made most of the 17s with three-pintle > setups, and I'm not totally sure but I think the Ida rudders have a > "normal" two-pintle setup. At any rate I think I've got gudgeons; the kind > that are a simple angled stainless sheet metal part that bolts to the > transom. > > I'm leaving tomorrow morning for my Ma's 97th BD but I'll take my laptop. > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.** > xmission.com <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 1:46 PM > Subject: M_Boats: Ida rudder > > > Mr. Montgomery, >> My Montgomery 17 was manufactured in 1978. I now have a chance to install >> an Ida sailor rudder on it from a 2005 Montgomery 17. That setup uses >> three >> pintles whereas my older stock rudder model uses only two. Can a third be >> added so this setup will work on my boat or is there some other >> consideration that needs tending to? >> You mentioned you have a stock of old parts. Do you have a set of the old >> grugeon/pintle (s) available? >> Regards, >> Tom B >> >> > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 8493 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/** > SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen<http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 13:16:06 GMT From: "bownez(a)juno.com" <bownez(a)juno.com> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <20130502.081606.21155.0(a)webmail12.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Larry, I stand corrected! I wonder if someone added a third to my boat which is hull #92? Bones ____________________________________________________________ New BlackBerry&#174 Z10 Discover the BlackBerry Z10, built to keep you moving. Get it today. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5182676fd037d676f5265st01vuc ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 13:51:38 -0400 From: Rick Davies <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <CA+0OvVhmXOUwg4KMyG+jO7upN1tRFMH6ta6D4qqPa=neUJ0Daw(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think that to go from the two-gudgeon setup to the three requires not only adding a third gudgeon at the base of the transom, but moving the two upper ones. The lower gudgeon in the two-gudgeon design is only 7" above the bottom of the transom, not 14" as in the three-gudgeon layout. Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Thursday, May 2, 2013, bownez(a)juno.com wrote: > Larry, > > I stand corrected! I wonder if someone added a third to my boat which is > hull #92? > > Bones > ____________________________________________________________ > New BlackBerry&#174 Z10 > Discover the BlackBerry Z10, built to keep you moving. Get it today. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5182676fd037d676f5265st01vuc > > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 15:48:03 -0700 From: Bruce Ward <northwave(a)telus.net> To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <8F3B6F75-5A0E-45FB-9E1B-4F7CE350499A(a)telus.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I can attest to the '74 model year having two pintle/gudgeon setup with the forward leading edge ruddder and that it does a great job. However, I'm working at adding the third one with the rod to make a lifting setup. I'll be making a new NACA 0012 foil based upon the inspiration of Kelowna Timtone's. Many years ago I had a a Potter 19 with the folding mahogany rudder but never really cared for it - I'm sure the ida rudder is excellent but beyond my budget here in northern British Columbia. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 2 May 2013 20:29:03 -0400 (EDT) From: GILASAILR(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida rudder Message-ID: <687d7.304829bc.3eb45ecf(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Tim's work is spectacular as seen from his 'Samples' - GO In a message dated 5/2/2013 3:49:18 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, northwave(a)telus.net writes: I can attest to the '74 model year having two pintle/gudgeon setup with the forward leading edge ruddder and that it does a great job. However, I'm working at adding the third one with the rod to make a lifting setup. I'll be making a new NACA 0012 foil based upon the inspiration of Kelowna Timtone's. Many years ago I had a a Potter 19 with the folding mahogany rudder but never really cared for it - I'm sure the ida rudder is excellent but beyond my budget here in northern British Columbia. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 09:00:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Csmithsquared(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M17 renovation questions Message-ID: <95493.2714334c.3eb7b205(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Hello all! My name is Cathy from Atlanta and from these posts and the MSOG site, I'm one of the few east coast owners. I've been reading this forum and the one on the Montgomery site as well as Don Casey's books and Fix it and Sail to learn about my "new" boat. I'm the new owner of the 1977 M17 originally bought by Lionel Babb, and, unfortunately, I can't list my original hull identification number because she has a newly issued number. Perhaps someone knows Lionel or Jerry has records (I hope)... Anyway, Jo Marie (old name-not renamed yet) is in fairly good shape and I took her out twice (in January) before starting to work on rebedding the bow pulpit. This proved to be a little more labor intensive as the core around two of the stanchions was simply gone. Rotten and eaten by ants is my guess as the boat is from Baton Rouge. So while I started to work on that, intending to pace my renovations so I could continue to sail her, one thing led to another and I subsequently removed everything that bolts through, including the locker lids, forward hatch, and port lights. The three coats of interior paint were peeling so I decided this would be a great time to remove and repaint since all the bolts were removed. Not my most fun spring break, but I removed most of the paint and learned a lot about what not to do to the interior. Which brings up my questions. Where the cabin/deck top meet the interior insert there is an off-white colored substance. This originally extended about one half inch over the top of the dimpled interior side wall but had become brittle with age (and maybe paint) and I ended up chipping it off as I removed the paint. I have searched forums and Don Casey's book and can not find out what it is and if I should renew it with a similar product. It seemed plastic-like, but perhaps it was a bead of 4200...Does anyone have any idea what it might be? And with what I can replace it? Another problem is that once I removed the three layers of paint from the v-berth I discovered the gelcoat there is all cracked and blistered. I'm trying to decide what to do about that to restore it. Anybody ever had that? I'm considering covering it with a layer of plastic laminate (Formica) as the cracking is so extensive. If any of you have any ideas about restoring that I welcome your input. That's all for now and I won't be a "lurker" anymore! I look forward to a trip to Lake Havasu in a couple of years. Cathy M17 Jo Marie (for now) ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 10:14:27 -0400 From: John Tyner <tynerjr(a)md.metrocast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 renovation questions Message-ID: <51866943.3020102(a)md.metrocast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Welcome to the mailing list, Cathy. I can't help you with any details on an M-17, but I'm sure there are many others who'll be responding shortly. Anyway, I'm another east coast owner, and I've a daughter living in Atlanta (out near Coan Park). I assume you'll largely be sailing on Lanier? Good luck with the restoration, and keep the list informed of how it's going. --------- John Tyner M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee" On 5/5/2013 9:00 AM, Csmithsquared(a)aol.com wrote: > Hello all! > My name is Cathy from Atlanta and from these posts and the MSOG site, I'm > one of the few east coast owners. I've been reading this forum and the one > on the Montgomery site as well as Don Casey's books and Fix it and Sail to > learn about my "new" boat. I'm the new owner of the 1977 M17 originally > bought by Lionel Babb, and, unfortunately, I can't list my original hull > identification number because she has a newly issued number. Perhaps someone > knows Lionel or Jerry has records (I hope)... > > Anyway, Jo Marie (old name-not renamed yet) is in fairly good shape and I > took her out twice (in January) before starting to work on rebedding the bow > pulpit. This proved to be a little more labor intensive as the core > around two of the stanchions was simply gone. Rotten and eaten by ants is my > guess as the boat is from Baton Rouge. So while I started to work on that, > intending to pace my renovations so I could continue to sail her, one thing > led to another and I subsequently removed everything that bolts through, > including the locker lids, forward hatch, and port lights. The three coats of > interior paint were peeling so I decided this would be a great time to > remove and repaint since all the bolts were removed. Not my most fun spring > break, but I removed most of the paint and learned a lot about what not to do > to the interior. > > Which brings up my questions. Where the cabin/deck top meet the interior > insert there is an off-white colored substance. This originally extended > about one half inch over the top of the dimpled interior side wall but had > become brittle with age (and maybe paint) and I ended up chipping it off as I > removed the paint. I have searched forums and Don Casey's book and can not > find out what it is and if I should renew it with a similar product. It > seemed plastic-like, but perhaps it was a bead of 4200...Does anyone have any > idea what it might be? And with what I can replace it? > > Another problem is that once I removed the three layers of paint from the > v-berth I discovered the gelcoat there is all cracked and blistered. I'm > trying to decide what to do about that to restore it. Anybody ever had > that? I'm considering covering it with a layer of plastic laminate (Formica) > as the cracking is so extensive. If any of you have any ideas about > restoring that I welcome your input. > > That's all for now and I won't be a "lurker" anymore! I look forward to a > trip to Lake Havasu in a couple of years. > Cathy > M17 Jo Marie (for now) > > > ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 05 May 2013 12:06:00 -0400 From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)sbcglobal.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 renovation questions Message-ID: <51868368.6040307(a)sbcglobal.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 05-May-13 9:00 AM, Csmithsquared(a)aol.com wrote Hi Cathy from Atlanta, and a warm welcome to the M Group. You will meet a lot of new and knowledgeable fellow sailors who will gladly lend you a helping hand. As a former M15 owner (had to quit - old age) my first recommendation would be for you to get a copy of WEST Epoxy's "How To" Manual - which is free for the asking. You will find that this is a big help to answer your questions; like rebedding and fixing the deck core at the stanchions; fixing gelcoat cracks; and anything to do with repairs; modifications; and up-keep of fiberglass structures. You'll find WEST Epoxy ads in boating magazines or on the Internet. It's a "Must-Have" book, and it will be your guide for everything you have mentioned in your email. When Jerry Montgomery reads your email he might answer with some pertinent advice and information about what he used when building the M17. A word of advice: If you start sanding or sawing or otherwise working with fiberglass, wear a respirator, eye protection, and a long sleeved shirt and gloves. Fiberglass bits can be like tiny needles that stick in your skin, and irritate.... You don't want them in your eyes, up your nose, or on your bare skin. (been there - done that) You sound very enterprising and not afraid to tackle such a job. Good for you; just yell when you need assistance in the form of words of advice from those of us who can help with their personal experience. Ciao, Connie Benneck ex M15 #400 LEPPO ex Tripp-Lentsch 29 (26 years) ex Northeast 38 > Hello all! > My name is Cathy from Atlanta and from these posts and the MSOG site, I'm > one of the few east coast owners. I've been reading this forum and the one > on the Montgomery site as well as Don Casey's books and Fix it and Sail to > learn about my "new" boat. I'm the new owner of the 1977 M17 originally > bought by Lionel Babb, and, unfortunately, I can't list my original hull > identification number because she has a newly issued number. Perhaps someone > knows Lionel or Jerry has records (I hope)... > > Anyway, Jo Marie (old name-not renamed yet) is in fairly good shape and I > took her out twice (in January) before starting to work on rebedding the bow > pulpit. This proved to be a little more labor intensive as the core > around two of the stanchions was simply gone. Rotten and eaten by ants is my > guess as the boat is from Baton Rouge. So while I started to work on that, > intending to pace my renovations so I could continue to sail her, one thing > led to another and I subsequently removed everything that bolts through, > including the locker lids, forward hatch, and port lights. The three coats of > interior paint were peeling so I decided this would be a great time to > remove and repaint since all the bolts were removed. Not my most fun spring > break, but I removed most of the paint and learned a lot about what not to do > to the interior. > > Which brings up my questions. Where the cabin/deck top meet the interior > insert there is an off-white colored substance. This originally extended > about one half inch over the top of the dimpled interior side wall but had > become brittle with age (and maybe paint) and I ended up chipping it off as I > removed the paint. I have searched forums and Don Casey's book and can not > find out what it is and if I should renew it with a similar product. It > seemed plastic-like, but perhaps it was a bead of 4200...Does anyone have any > idea what it might be? And with what I can replace it? > > Another problem is that once I removed the three layers of paint from the > v-berth I discovered the gelcoat there is all cracked and blistered. I'm > trying to decide what to do about that to restore it. Anybody ever had > that? I'm considering covering it with a layer of plastic laminate (Formica) > as the cracking is so extensive. If any of you have any ideas about > restoring that I welcome your input. > > That's all for now and I won't be a "lurker" anymore! I look forward to a > trip to Lake Havasu in a couple of years. > Cathy > M17 Jo Marie (for now) > > > ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sun, 5 May 2013 14:36:40 -0400 (EDT) From: GILASAILR(a)aol.com To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 renovation questions Message-ID: <9a63e.260b62e6.3eb800b8(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Cathy, Welcome to the 'fleet' - it appears as though you are a 'hands on' kind of person - Good for you! I have a 1980 M-17 - that has a material at the interior liner/deck joint that appears to a cab-o-sil type filler at the seam - cracked and missing at various locations - Jerry M. once told me if I was a "real" boat guy I would tape the joint and be forever confident in its integrity. Sounded like too much work for me. Jerry will be able to help when he reads the post. As to your v-berth cracking and blistering issue - If the cracks are large and beyond the gelcoat they should be repaired with fiberglass - if they are just 'crazing and blisters you may consider sanding them smooth and coating with 2-3 coats of Interprotect 2000E - it comes in grey and white (barrier coat,) Stan S will hopefully chime in here as he is the man for coatings, repairs & modifications. I have used 2000E on my topsides and almost everywhere else(!) on a boat,car, etc. and had VERY good results. Stan may have an easier/less expensive/better application for this task. My own boat shows minor crazing at the horizontal berth deck and blisters from leaking pulpit fasteners - I will live with the v-berth as is for the time being. This being said - wait a couple of days and see if we can get the pro's to check in on the issue. Congratulations on finding one of the best small boats around! Keep up the good work - I believe you will find your boat a worthy endeavor. Have Fun, Go Sailing GO M-17t #316 "Tiny Purple Fishes" PS +1 on Connie's recommendation for the West Repair book - you may also sign up for the Epoxyworks newsletter for free. http://www.epoxyworks.com/ In a message dated 5/5/2013 6:02:08 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, Csmithsquared(a)aol.com writes: Hello all! My name is Cathy from Atlanta and from these posts and the MSOG site, I'm one of the few east coast owners. I've been reading this forum and the one on the Montgomery site as well as Don Casey's books and Fix it and Sail to learn about my "new" boat. I'm the new owner of the 1977 M17 originally bought by Lionel Babb, and, unfortunately, I can't list my original hull identification number because she has a newly issued number. Perhaps someone knows Lionel or Jerry has records (I hope)... Anyway, Jo Marie (old name-not renamed yet) is in fairly good shape and I took her out twice (in January) before starting to work on rebedding the bow pulpit. This proved to be a little more labor intensive as the core around two of the stanchions was simply gone. Rotten and eaten by ants is my guess as the boat is from Baton Rouge. So while I started to work on that, intending to pace my renovations so I could continue to sail her, one thing led to another and I subsequently removed everything that bolts through, including the locker lids, forward hatch, and port lights. The three coats of interior paint were peeling so I decided this would be a great time to remove and repaint since all the bolts were removed. Not my most fun spring break, but I removed most of the paint and learned a lot about what not to do to the interior. Which brings up my questions. Where the cabin/deck top meet the interior insert there is an off-white colored substance. This originally extended about one half inch over the top of the dimpled interior side wall but had become brittle with age (and maybe paint) and I ended up chipping it off as I removed the paint. I have searched forums and Don Casey's book and can not find out what it is and if I should renew it with a similar product. It seemed plastic-like, but perhaps it was a bead of 4200...Does anyone have any idea what it might be? And with what I can replace it? Another problem is that once I removed the three layers of paint from the v-berth I discovered the gelcoat there is all cracked and blistered. I'm trying to decide what to do about that to restore it. Anybody ever had that? I'm considering covering it with a layer of plastic laminate (Formica) as the cracking is so extensive. If any of you have any ideas about restoring that I welcome your input. That's all for now and I won't be a "lurker" anymore! I look forward to a trip to Lake Havasu in a couple of years. Cathy M17 Jo Marie (for now) ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 123, Issue 2 ************************************************

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Trading my M-17 for an M-15
by Thomas Nixon 09 Jun '13

09 Jun '13

Just a heads up to everyone that might be interested: I'm looking to trade my M-17 for an M-15. I recently acquired the 17 but have decided that at my age (66) and beyond, (and mostly sailing by myself) that launching, rigging etc. is more than I want to deal with on my own. I'm located in the SF Bay area. The boat is in good shape, and the centerboard has been replaced with a stainless steel centerboard. It's a 1985 model on an EZ Loader trailer. I'm asking 6K but would rather trade with someone with a 15 who wants to move up to a 17. I can deliver a reasonable distance for the price of the gas. Feel free to call or text me @ 707-787-7659 or email me at thoslloyd(a)gmail.com. Thanks, Tom

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M15 Centerboard
by George Iemmolo 01 Jun '13

01 Jun '13

I finally splashed the boat last Thursday. I have not been able to get my CB to go down its full designed length of 15". In addition the cockpit does not drain after a rain. I either need to pump it out manually or raise and lower the CB line as far as it will go and the water pumps out thru the CB line/Drain hole. I plan on taking a wire clothes hanger that I have folded in half as a prod to see if anything is lodged in the hole. ANY WORDS OF WISDOM ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED. George M15 Merry Helen #602 'We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust our Sails'

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