- montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 138, Issue 16
by Neil Dorf 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Hi all, just returned from some great sailing on Humboldt Bay. Will post a few pics on the trailersailor forum when I get a minute. Daniel: Sorry you couldn't bring Kestrel up to join us. I was a blast. Quick wave as I trailered down 101 past Santa Rosa today. My 2 cents on the the pin for the forestay is this: When considering risk in general, I look at two factors: A) How likely, on a numerical scale, is a bad outcome (pin comes out, forestay swings loose, mast comes crashing down) likely to happen? B) IF that bad outcome were to happen, how severe, on the same numerical scale, would the outcome be? I you go with a 1-5 rating, I would put the first item at a "1" or "2", meaning not too likely under reasonable conditions; especially with the sensible precautions Judy B. suggests. However, for (B), I would peg at a "5", meaning not too cool. Especially in rough conditions. Mast could maybe rip off the tabernacle, worse, fall upon and severly injure skipper or crew. (B) alone--no matter how low you rate (A), is sufficient for me to forego any thoughts of deviating from the clevis pin and split ring approach. Just sayin' By the way, and not to veer too far from the subject, but not having a permanently mounted transom / swim ladder, in my estimation, would have similar A/B ratings. Actually maybe (A) would be three, depending upon how "flat" (or not) you like to sail. If I forgot to put up my vang, maybe I would be very likely to regret it and have to deal with more twist than I would prefer. (a 4 or 5) but the severity, except for maybe racing, would be "1" (probably not going to capsize, crash, or anyone get injured due to not having it rigged). Don't take risks when the stakes applicable to safety are high. fair winds, Neil '85 M15 "TwoCan", Northern Cal. On 8/31/2014 3:33 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A Lesson (Judith Blumhorst, DC) > 2. Re: A Lesson (Conbert Benneck) > 3. Re: A Lesson (Mitch Carnes) > 4. Forestay attachment (Thomas Buzzi) > 5. Re: Forestay attachment (jerry montgomery) > 6. Re: A Lesson (Tom Jenkins) > 7. Re: (no subject) (Michael Murphy) > 8. : M-15 forestay device (stevetrapp) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:39:22 -0700 > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: David Grah <d_b_grah(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson > Message-ID: > <1409510362.67843.YahooMailNeo(a)web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Dave, > > I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the mousing/lashing. > > So far, so good..... > > Judy > > > > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com > judy(a)judybsails.com > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com > > > > > ________________________________ > From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM > Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson > > > I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. > > I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. > > > I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. > > > After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. > > At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. > > I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. > > As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. > > They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! > > > David Grah > Bishop California > Montgomery 15 - Sky > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:51:57 -0500 > From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> > To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson > Message-ID: <54036ECD.70401(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 31-Aug-14 1:39 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: > > Hi Judy, > > I like your "belt & suspenders" approach. Never give MURPHY a chance to > do his dirty work. > > I used a ball clevis pin for all the years I owned the M15 and never had > a problem; but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > Connie, the boat-less sailor in Dallas. >> Hi Dave, >> >> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the mousing/lashing. >> >> So far, so good..... >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >> >> >> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >> >> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >> >> >> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >> >> >> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. >> >> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >> >> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. >> >> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. >> >> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >> >> >> David Grah >> Bishop California >> Montgomery 15 - Sky > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 12:22:24 -0700 > From: Mitch Carnes <mitch_carnes(a)sbcglobal.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>, "Judith Blumhorst, DC" > <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson > Message-ID: > <1409512944.23068.YahooMailNeo(a)web181605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I use a Harken "Toggle Pin" which has a spring tension "T" on the end which has served me well for years. The only potential for failure I see is the small pin that holds the Toggle in place, which takes a constant salt water bath on the bow. > Mitch > > > On Sunday, August 31, 2014 11:52 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 31-Aug-14 1:39 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: > > Hi Judy, > > I like your "belt & suspenders" approach. Never give MURPHY a chance to > do his dirty work. > > I used a ball clevis pin for all the years I owned the M15 and never had > a problem; but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > Connie, the boat-less sailor in Dallas. > >> Hi Dave, >> >> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the mousing/lashing. >> >> So far, so good..... >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >> >> >> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >> >> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >> >> >> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >> >> >> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. >> >> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >> >> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. >> >> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. >> >> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >> >> >> David Grah >> Bishop California >> Montgomery 15 - Sky > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 14:32:07 -0500 > From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment > Message-ID: > <CA+TbpAVkVr6vyaZcJFBObekynuuFhA0vhODZ4uSTZfOVRmdUug(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the > opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by > closing the jaw I tension the forestay. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:03:53 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment > Message-ID: <FC94F28DBD0643FF91D5650A7FF235C5@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type="original" > > Great idea! > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:32 PM > Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment > > >> I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the >> opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by >> closing the jaw I tension the forestay. >> > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 12313 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:08:26 -0700 > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson > Message-ID: <40AE1D18-5B01-4958-AEBA-9F6375173656(a)gte.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I use a quick-release pin on my M17 headstay-furler, and on my Potter 14 headstay and shrouds, and have had no backing-out problem (in the case of the Potter, for 35 years). However, on the Potter I recently discovered that the internal mechanism eventually wears out and keeps them from holding, so I had to replace all three. On new ones, I can?t back them out regardless of how hard I pull and change the stay tennsion. One has to be very careful that the fitting receiving the pin is not slightly oversize to start with, and I?m betting that the hole will wear larger with heavy use. In any case, on the ocean I would use some wraps of duct tape just in from the ball, or some thread with a constrictor knot. Of course, most quick pins have a hold for attaching a lanyard so the pin won?t get lost. > > Tom > > > On Aug 31, 2014, at 11:39 AM, Judith Blumhorst, DC <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> >> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the mousing/lashing. >> >> So far, so good..... >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >> >> >> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >> >> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >> >> >> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >> >> >> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. >> >> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >> >> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. >> >> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. >> >> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >> >> >> David Grah >> Bishop California >> Montgomery 15 - Sky > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 18:03:50 -0400 > From: Michael Murphy <mikeandpaula48(a)gmail.com> > To: jake horine <smartypart(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) > Message-ID: > <CAE9+wJOEHdS3yjc5WBByDWa3MnYpV2MNrcPj2AfML8mZoph9nw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I sailed Flying Scotts at least twice a month for about 3 years. It's a > fast boat; can be jiffy reefed for higher winds. Not exactly suitable for > single-handed sailing but could be done in mild weather if you changed the > sheeting arrangements. You can also set it up for a spinnaker. > > The few times we trailered boats raising the mast was not as easy as the > M-15 or M-17 mast. > > It's a dream in sheltered waters (rivers and lakes) for 2 people. Carries > 4 adults easily. Although the older capacity tabs said it could carry 6, > that is a stretch IMO unless 2 are kids. I also sailed a factory restored > boat several times. The boat looked good and handled well. > > You can occasionally come across Flying Scott racing groups. There used to > be one in the Beaufort NC area but I don't know how active they are at this > time. > > In summary, I think the Scott is a good stable boat that's easy and safe > to sail. > > Cheers, Mike M > > > On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 10:44 AM, jake horine via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > >> I realize that this is a Montgomery site, but i thought i might be able to >> enlist some of your knowledge on another boat. I have a friend who has just >> recently started sailing and is interested in purchasing Flying Scot 19. >> Has anyone in the group had any experience with this boat? Any comments or >> advise would be appreciated. Cheers >> Jake Horine >> 1977 Montgomery 17 >> A-Koo-De-a >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 15:33:01 -0700 > From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp(a)q.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: : M-15 forestay device > Message-ID: <3E2A798F52ED4206AE2DBB7CC8B5EE53@STEVEEW> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > These photos show the device I use on my M-15 forestay in place of a turnbuckle. It allows slack when open, but puts adequate tension on the forestay when closed, and locked. I bought it at a marine supply store, cost about the same as a turnbuckle. > Steve > M-15 # 335 > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: > M-15 forestay device 002 > M-15 forestay device 003 > > Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. >

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Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 138, Issue 16
by Keith R. Martin 03 Sep '14

03 Sep '14

While I have only had my M17 for about a year, I agree with Neil and Tyler with regard to risk versus benefit. Murphy has a habit of appearing at the worst possible times. I found you can make the clevis rings work much more quickly and easily by using the largest non-split clevis rings that will fit in the ring hole. By non-split I mean the type that have a large spiral lead into the centre. For a 1/4" clevis pin this is usually a 1 inch or 7/8 inch diameter clevis ring. The larger size makes them very easy to handle and they go on and come off literally in a couple of seconds... Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 2 September 2014 18:36, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> wrote: > Hi all, > > just returned from some great sailing on Humboldt Bay. Will post a few > pics on the trailersailor forum when I get a minute. Daniel: Sorry you > couldn't bring Kestrel up to join us. I was a blast. Quick wave as I > trailered down 101 past Santa Rosa today. > > My 2 cents on the the pin for the forestay is this: When considering risk > in general, I look at two factors: > > A) How likely, on a numerical scale, is a bad outcome (pin comes out, > forestay swings loose, mast comes crashing down) likely to happen? > B) IF that bad outcome were to happen, how severe, on the same numerical > scale, would the outcome be? > > I you go with a 1-5 rating, I would put the first item at a "1" or "2", > meaning not too likely under reasonable conditions; especially with the > sensible precautions Judy B. suggests. > > However, for (B), I would peg at a "5", meaning not too cool. Especially > in rough conditions. Mast could maybe rip off the tabernacle, worse, fall > upon and severly injure skipper or crew. (B) alone--no matter how low you > rate (A), is sufficient for me to forego any thoughts of deviating from the > clevis pin and split ring approach. > > Just sayin' > > By the way, and not to veer too far from the subject, but not having a > permanently mounted transom / swim ladder, in my estimation, would have > similar A/B ratings. Actually maybe (A) would be three, depending upon how > "flat" (or not) you like to sail. > > If I forgot to put up my vang, maybe I would be very likely to regret it > and have to deal with more twist than I would prefer. (a 4 or 5) but the > severity, except for maybe racing, would be "1" (probably not going to > capsize, crash, or anyone get injured due to not having it rigged). > > Don't take risks when the stakes applicable to safety are high. > > fair winds, > > Neil > '85 M15 "TwoCan", Northern Cal. > > On 8/31/2014 3:33 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > >> Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to >> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: A Lesson (Judith Blumhorst, DC) >> 2. Re: A Lesson (Conbert Benneck) >> 3. Re: A Lesson (Mitch Carnes) >> 4. Forestay attachment (Thomas Buzzi) >> 5. Re: Forestay attachment (jerry montgomery) >> 6. Re: A Lesson (Tom Jenkins) >> 7. Re: (no subject) (Michael Murphy) >> 8. : M-15 forestay device (stevetrapp) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:39:22 -0700 >> From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> >> To: David Grah <d_b_grah(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery >> Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson >> Message-ID: >> <1409510362.67843.YahooMailNeo(a)web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Hi Dave, >> >> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for >> decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin >> on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the >> pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the >> mousing/lashing. >> >> So far, so good..... >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >> xmission.com> >> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >> xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >> >> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our >> Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz >> Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta >> and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the >> Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of >> these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >> >> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the >> mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the >> five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple >> push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, >> when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be >> inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay >> which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up >> with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy >> on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >> >> >> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that >> said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a >> Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often >> have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has >> worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never >> changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >> >> >> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to >> Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for >> a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down >> the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an >> hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles >> per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially >> unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the >> jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The >> combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a >> bit from time to time. >> >> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had >> disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push >> pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay >> that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them >> back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. >> The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >> >> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore >> stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the >> fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the >> pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I >> decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it >> should work fine. >> >> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good >> wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to >> enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got >> switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore >> stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) >> around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from >> the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this >> time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a >> safety clip. >> >> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has >> taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect >> the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >> >> >> David Grah >> Bishop California >> Montgomery 15 - Sky >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:51:57 -0500 >> From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> >> To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about >> Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson >> Message-ID: <54036ECD.70401(a)gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> On 31-Aug-14 1:39 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: >> >> Hi Judy, >> >> I like your "belt & suspenders" approach. Never give MURPHY a chance to >> do his dirty work. >> >> I used a ball clevis pin for all the years I owned the M15 and never had >> a problem; but it's better to be safe than sorry. >> >> Connie, the boat-less sailor in Dallas. >> >>> Hi Dave, >>> >>> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for >>> decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin >>> on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the >>> pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the >>> mousing/lashing. >>> >>> So far, so good..... >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> >>> >>> Judy Blumhorst >>> Hyde Sails of Northern California >>> www.judybsails.com >>> judy(a)judybsails.com >>> cell: 925.208.1692 >>> fax: 925.820.2327 >>> skype: judith.blumhorst >>> www.HydeSails.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >>> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >>> >>> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our >>> Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz >>> Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta >>> and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the >>> Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of >>> these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >>> >>> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the >>> mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the >>> five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple >>> push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, >>> when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be >>> inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay >>> which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up >>> with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy >>> on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >>> >>> >>> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group >>> that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a >>> Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often >>> have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has >>> worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never >>> changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >>> >>> >>> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to >>> Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for >>> a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down >>> the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an >>> hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles >>> per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially >>> unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the >>> jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The >>> combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a >>> bit from time to time. >>> >>> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had >>> disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push >>> pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay >>> that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them >>> back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. >>> The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >>> >>> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the >>> fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of >>> the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put >>> the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I >>> decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it >>> should work fine. >>> >>> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good >>> wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to >>> enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got >>> switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore >>> stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) >>> around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from >>> the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this >>> time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a >>> safety clip. >>> >>> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it >>> has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to >>> connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >>> >>> >>> David Grah >>> Bishop California >>> Montgomery 15 - Sky >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 12:22:24 -0700 >> From: Mitch Carnes <mitch_carnes(a)sbcglobal.net> >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>, "Judith Blumhorst, DC" >> <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson >> Message-ID: >> <1409512944.23068.YahooMailNeo(a)web181605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I use a Harken "Toggle Pin" which has a spring tension "T" on the end >> which has served me well for years. The only potential for failure I see is >> the small pin that holds the Toggle in place, which takes a constant salt >> water bath on the bow. >> Mitch >> >> >> On Sunday, August 31, 2014 11:52 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> On 31-Aug-14 1:39 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: >> >> Hi Judy, >> >> I like your "belt & suspenders" approach. Never give MURPHY a chance to >> do his dirty work. >> >> I used a ball clevis pin for all the years I owned the M15 and never had >> a problem; but it's better to be safe than sorry. >> >> Connie, the boat-less sailor in Dallas. >> >> Hi Dave, >>> >>> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for >>> decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin >>> on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the >>> pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the >>> mousing/lashing. >>> >>> So far, so good..... >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> >>> >>> Judy Blumhorst >>> Hyde Sails of Northern California >>> www.judybsails.com >>> judy(a)judybsails.com >>> cell: 925.208.1692 >>> fax: 925.820.2327 >>> skype: judith.blumhorst >>> www.HydeSails.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >>> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >>> >>> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our >>> Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz >>> Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta >>> and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the >>> Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of >>> these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >>> >>> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the >>> mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the >>> five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple >>> push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, >>> when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be >>> inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay >>> which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up >>> with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy >>> on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >>> >>> >>> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group >>> that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a >>> Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often >>> have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has >>> worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never >>> changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >>> >>> >>> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to >>> Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for >>> a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down >>> the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an >>> hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles >>> per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially >>> unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the >>> jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The >>> combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a >>> bit from time to time. >>> >>> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had >>> disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push >>> pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay >>> that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them >>> back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. >>> The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >>> >>> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the >>> fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of >>> the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put >>> the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I >>> decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it >>> should work fine. >>> >>> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good >>> wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to >>> enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got >>> switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore >>> stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) >>> around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from >>> the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this >>> time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a >>> safety clip. >>> >>> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it >>> has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to >>> connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >>> >>> >>> David Grah >>> Bishop California >>> Montgomery 15 - Sky >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 14:32:07 -0500 >> From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment >> Message-ID: >> <CA+TbpAVkVr6vyaZcJFBObekynuuFhA0vhODZ4uSTZfOVRmdUug(a)mail.gmail. >> com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the >> opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by >> closing the jaw I tension the forestay. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:03:53 -0700 >> From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment >> Message-ID: <FC94F28DBD0643FF91D5650A7FF235C5@jerryws10> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; >> reply-type="original" >> >> Great idea! >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:32 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment >> >> >> I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the >>> opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by >>> closing the jaw I tension the forestay. >>> >>> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> SPAMfighter has removed 12313 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/ >> SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:08:26 -0700 >> From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about >> Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson >> Message-ID: <40AE1D18-5B01-4958-AEBA-9F6375173656(a)gte.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> I use a quick-release pin on my M17 headstay-furler, and on my Potter 14 >> headstay and shrouds, and have had no backing-out problem (in the case of >> the Potter, for 35 years). However, on the Potter I recently discovered >> that the internal mechanism eventually wears out and keeps them from >> holding, so I had to replace all three. On new ones, I can?t back them out >> regardless of how hard I pull and change the stay tennsion. One has to be >> very careful that the fitting receiving the pin is not slightly oversize to >> start with, and I?m betting that the hole will wear larger with heavy use. >> In any case, on the ocean I would use some wraps of duct tape just in from >> the ball, or some thread with a constrictor knot. Of course, most quick >> pins have a hold for attaching a lanyard so the pin won?t get lost. >> >> Tom >> >> >> On Aug 31, 2014, at 11:39 AM, Judith Blumhorst, DC <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Dave, >>> >>> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for >>> decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin >>> on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the >>> pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the >>> mousing/lashing. >>> >>> So far, so good..... >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> >>> >>> Judy Blumhorst >>> Hyde Sails of Northern California >>> www.judybsails.com >>> judy(a)judybsails.com >>> >>> cell: 925.208.1692 >>> fax: 925.820.2327 >>> skype: judith.blumhorst >>> www.HydeSails.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >>> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >>> >>> >>> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our >>> Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz >>> Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta >>> and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the >>> Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of >>> these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >>> >>> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the >>> mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the >>> five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple >>> push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, >>> when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be >>> inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay >>> which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up >>> with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy >>> on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >>> >>> >>> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group >>> that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a >>> Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often >>> have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has >>> worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never >>> changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >>> >>> >>> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to >>> Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for >>> a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down >>> the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an >>> hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles >>> per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially >>> unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the >>> jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The >>> combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a >>> bit from time to time. >>> >>> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had >>> disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push >>> pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay >>> that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them >>> back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. >>> The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >>> >>> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the >>> fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of >>> the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put >>> the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I >>> decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it >>> should work fine. >>> >>> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good >>> wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to >>> enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got >>> switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore >>> stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) >>> around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from >>> the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this >>> time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a >>> safety clip. >>> >>> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it >>> has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to >>> connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >>> >>> >>> David Grah >>> Bishop California >>> Montgomery 15 - Sky >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 18:03:50 -0400 >> From: Michael Murphy <mikeandpaula48(a)gmail.com> >> To: jake horine <smartypart(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery >> Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) >> Message-ID: >> <CAE9+wJOEHdS3yjc5WBByDWa3MnYpV2MNrcPj2AfML8mZoph9nw(a)mail.gmail. >> com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I sailed Flying Scotts at least twice a month for about 3 years. It's >> a >> fast boat; can be jiffy reefed for higher winds. Not exactly suitable for >> single-handed sailing but could be done in mild weather if you changed the >> sheeting arrangements. You can also set it up for a spinnaker. >> >> The few times we trailered boats raising the mast was not as easy as >> the >> M-15 or M-17 mast. >> >> It's a dream in sheltered waters (rivers and lakes) for 2 people. Carries >> 4 adults easily. Although the older capacity tabs said it could carry 6, >> that is a stretch IMO unless 2 are kids. I also sailed a factory restored >> boat several times. The boat looked good and handled well. >> >> You can occasionally come across Flying Scott racing groups. There used >> to >> be one in the Beaufort NC area but I don't know how active they are at >> this >> time. >> >> In summary, I think the Scott is a good stable boat that's easy and safe >> to sail. >> >> Cheers, Mike M >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 10:44 AM, jake horine via montgomery_boats < >> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: >> >> I realize that this is a Montgomery site, but i thought i might be able >>> to >>> enlist some of your knowledge on another boat. I have a friend who has >>> just >>> recently started sailing and is interested in purchasing Flying Scot 19. >>> Has anyone in the group had any experience with this boat? Any comments >>> or >>> advise would be appreciated. Cheers >>> Jake Horine >>> 1977 Montgomery 17 >>> A-Koo-De-a >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 15:33:01 -0700 >> From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp(a)q.com> >> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: M_Boats: : M-15 forestay device >> Message-ID: <3E2A798F52ED4206AE2DBB7CC8B5EE53@STEVEEW> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> These photos show the device I use on my M-15 forestay in place of a >> turnbuckle. It allows slack when open, but puts adequate tension on the >> forestay when closed, and locked. I bought it at a marine supply store, >> cost about the same as a turnbuckle. >> Steve >> M-15 # 335 >> >> The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link >> attachments: >> M-15 forestay device 002 >> M-15 forestay device 003 >> >> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent >> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail >> security settings to determine how attachments are handled. >>

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(no subject)
by jake horine 31 Aug '14

31 Aug '14

I realize that this is a Montgomery site, but i thought i might be able to enlist some of your knowledge on another boat. I have a friend who has just recently started sailing and is interested in purchasing Flying Scot 19. Has anyone in the group had any experience with this boat? Any comments or advise would be appreciated. Cheers Jake Horine 1977 Montgomery 17 A-Koo-De-a

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A Lesson
by David Grah 31 Aug '14

31 Aug '14

I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 - Sky

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Forestay attachment
by Thomas Buzzi 31 Aug '14

31 Aug '14

I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by closing the jaw I tension the forestay.

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M-15 centerboard woes
by Chesley Sugg 30 Aug '14

30 Aug '14

Hi all, I need a little advice. My 81 15 has developed a stuck centerboard. It appears that the centerboard truck walls have developed the dreaded bulge. My board sticks up and while I can drive it down, I don't want to do this on a ongoing basis. I think maybe a 1/8" clearance might let it work again. I don't see trying to correct the bulge in the walls. I see either making a new board or sanding about a 1/8 to 3/16 off the width of the existing board. Has anyone done this? Is there enough fiberglass in the construction of the board that would withstand taking this much off? Thanks for any help. Ches Sugg M-15 "Mouse" (#153)

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Fixes
by Thomas Buzzi 30 Aug '14

30 Aug '14

A couple of fixes that worked on my M17 restoration. I was getting some funky odors in the cockpit from the cockpit drain. Poking around, literally, I discovered a bunch of oak leaves that had found their way into the stock long loop of hose which joins the cockpit drain with the drain glassed into the transom. After removing the stock corrugated drain hose I fashioned one out of a piece of 1 1/2 inch radiator hose purchased from a local auto supply. I made sure when I bought it that it has two right angle bends formed into it. Those bends enabled me to come off the cockpit drain nipple with one right angle bend and the second nipple fiberglassed into the transom. The hose between the bends as formed in the car radiator hose were too long so I removed about four inches of hose from it. I was then able to rejoin the two right angle sections of hose with a length of 1 1/4 pvc plastic pipe. The 4 inch length of pvc formed a nice tight press fit inside the rubber hose and after double hose clamping all the connections (you will need eight clamps) the cockpit drained quickly and cleanly. Any detritus that finds its way into the drain hose will be flushed out of the short run of hose much more efficiently. I had previously removed an area from the aft cockpit wall to work on the rudder fitting bolts so was able to access the cockpit drain hose from there. Second find, I recently had to refinish the hull gelcoat. Was going to wax it but tried one of those poly coating formulas for gelcoat. I used "New Glass 2" but any of them will act the same. It goes on the hull after a light sanding to remove most of the oxidation. The product I used came with its own chamois applicator and worked very well, even on my "wrinkle hull". It took about two hours to apply seven coats and the old hull (37 years) really shines. It seals the old gelcoat and protects it from chemical spills from when you do the deck above the hull area. Be sure to follow all the instructions that come with the product and don't try to apply too much at a time. Sags are a sticky mess to remove. "New Glass 2" company also sells their cleaner which I would recommend as it cuts through the New Glass 2 so it can be removed as in removal of sags. The finished hull really looks great. Fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17, #258, 1977

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Re: M_Boats: Bring a friend with a boat - Win an M-Boat !*
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 30 Aug '14

30 Aug '14

I guess it is poorly 'phrased' - We ALSO want to have FUN - even tho that is the way we sail 99% of the time! My mistake - Another one - I hope I am running out of those damn things (mistakes) as I am shooting for PERFECTION ! ! and NIRVANA ! In a message dated 8/29/2014 6:27:20 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org writes: What do you mean "We don't want to be perfect"? That's a new one for me. Always strive for perfection! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:15 PM Subject: M_Boats: Bring a friend with a boat - Win an M-Boat !* > > WrinkleBoaters - > Racing your boat is arguably the BEST way to develop and hone sailing > skills - BUT - We don't want to be 'perfect' - we just want to have fun! > We agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with Mr. Leweck - Editor of Scuttlebutt > Newsletter > http://www.sailingworld.com/racing/left-coast-right-brain-better-isnt-always > -best?cmpid=enews042214&spPodID=030 > In order to show our commitment to these principles - the 2015 WICR will > be structured as follows: > > * Friday (16 Jan. '15) - Practice Racing - with guest sailors if > requested - to help polish any skills, learn new techniques or general > assistance with their sailing or racing. IF one desires - you may race in > Single > handed or D-PN fleets for Leukemia Cup - Please support L/L Society. > * Friday Evening - A WICR favorite - Burgers/Beer/BS at 'Wild Horse > West' Chalk board presentation for Starts, mark roundings, local info., > Q/A... > * Saturday (17 Jan.) WrinkleBoat Fleet Racing > -Windward/Offset/Leeward courses - 'Old style' sailboat racing. X-Fleet > and Y-Fleet (see below) > * Saturday Evening - Birthday Regatta Dinner/LLS Trophy and Raffle > * Sunday (18 Jan.) - Long Course around the Lake - approximately > 8-10 miles from South end of Lake up to North coves - around an island or > three - into another cove and back down the length of the Lake to the > Finish > and PARTY! > > > Fleet Racing will be divided into 2 Fleets - Corinthian (X-Fleet) and > Grand Prix (Y-Fleet).......boats are scored using Portsmouth ratings so > the > fleet of 15's thru 23's and ALL modified versions are handicapped fairly > and > accurately! Great Race Committee - BEAUTIFUL weather! > We hope this variety will 'keep it fun' and interesting for the > ailors - > the goal is to help M-Boaters develop/polish their sailing skills and > increase participation. There is a 'library' of WrinkleBoat experience > and > good amount of sail racing knowledge available to draw on here, the > parties > involved are all committed to making 'YOU' a better WrinkleBoat Sailor and > Racer!! > Thank You for your time - we would love to see you in January - Lake > Pleasant,Arizona ! ! > *New for 2015 - A Montgomery 7-11 Sailing dinghy (used - but complete w/ > rig & sail) is to be raffled for 'pennies' for the 2015 event - > Qualifying > criteria to be met for the boat to be awarded at raffle: > 1. 24 boats registered in the "Wrinkleboat Fleet" and on the line for > at least one race. > 2. Total number of raffle tickets limited to the number of > participating boats -$1. per (if someone would like to pony-up for an > additional > donation to the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society - PLEASE do.) All $24.00 (!) > dollars > will go to the LLS in the name of the WrinkleBoat Fleet.No registration > shills Please. Registration in raffle is NOT mandatory. > 3. Additional details as the scenario gets complicated by some JD > types or accountants - the boat goes when there are 24 registered and > sailing - > let's hope it stays 'simple'. > 4. I should be a first-time Grandpa by the time the regatta takes > place - a grandson is on the way - if the boat doesn't get raffled off > this > year - it will go to guess who - so round up a friend with a boat and come > on > over for the 2015 WICR & Ran-Tan! I probably won't have a spare > WrinkleBoat in 2016.....especially if someone wins it in 2015! > > If you have any questions or suggestions - Please e mail to - > _gilasailr(a)aol.com_ (mailto:gilasailr@aol.com) . > _www.wrinkleboat.webs.com_ (http://www.wrinkleboat.webs.com) > Thanks, GO > Last year there were 12 boats - bring a friend and win a boat- - ANOTHER > WrinkleBoat for your fleet! > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 12283 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen

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Bring a friend with a boat - Win an M-Boat !*
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 30 Aug '14

30 Aug '14

WrinkleBoaters - Racing your boat is arguably the BEST way to develop and hone sailing skills - BUT - We don't want to be 'perfect' - we just want to have fun! We agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY with Mr. Leweck - Editor of Scuttlebutt Newsletter http://www.sailingworld.com/racing/left-coast-right-brain-better-isnt-always -best?cmpid=enews042214&spPodID=030 In order to show our commitment to these principles - the 2015 WICR will be structured as follows: * Friday (16 Jan. '15) - Practice Racing - with guest sailors if requested - to help polish any skills, learn new techniques or general assistance with their sailing or racing. IF one desires - you may race in Single handed or D-PN fleets for Leukemia Cup - Please support L/L Society. * Friday Evening - A WICR favorite - Burgers/Beer/BS at 'Wild Horse West' Chalk board presentation for Starts, mark roundings, local info., Q/A... * Saturday (17 Jan.) WrinkleBoat Fleet Racing -Windward/Offset/Leeward courses - 'Old style' sailboat racing. X-Fleet and Y-Fleet (see below) * Saturday Evening - Birthday Regatta Dinner/LLS Trophy and Raffle * Sunday (18 Jan.) - Long Course around the Lake - approximately 8-10 miles from South end of Lake up to North coves - around an island or three - into another cove and back down the length of the Lake to the Finish and PARTY! Fleet Racing will be divided into 2 Fleets - Corinthian (X-Fleet) and Grand Prix (Y-Fleet).......boats are scored using Portsmouth ratings so the fleet of 15's thru 23's and ALL modified versions are handicapped fairly and accurately! Great Race Committee - BEAUTIFUL weather! We hope this variety will 'keep it fun' and interesting for the sailors - the goal is to help M-Boaters develop/polish their sailing skills and increase participation. There is a 'library' of WrinkleBoat experience and good amount of sail racing knowledge available to draw on here, the parties involved are all committed to making 'YOU' a better WrinkleBoat Sailor and Racer!! Thank You for your time - we would love to see you in January - Lake Pleasant,Arizona ! ! *New for 2015 - A Montgomery 7-11 Sailing dinghy (used - but complete w/ rig & sail) is to be raffled for 'pennies' for the 2015 event - Qualifying criteria to be met for the boat to be awarded at raffle: 1. 24 boats registered in the "Wrinkleboat Fleet" and on the line for at least one race. 2. Total number of raffle tickets limited to the number of participating boats -$1. per (if someone would like to pony-up for an additional donation to the Leukemia/Lymphoma Society - PLEASE do.) All $24.00 (!) dollars will go to the LLS in the name of the WrinkleBoat Fleet.No registration shills Please. Registration in raffle is NOT mandatory. 3. Additional details as the scenario gets complicated by some JD types or accountants - the boat goes when there are 24 registered and sailing - let's hope it stays 'simple'. 4. I should be a first-time Grandpa by the time the regatta takes place - a grandson is on the way - if the boat doesn't get raffled off this year - it will go to guess who - so round up a friend with a boat and come on over for the 2015 WICR & Ran-Tan! I probably won't have a spare WrinkleBoat in 2016.....especially if someone wins it in 2015! If you have any questions or suggestions - Please e mail to - _gilasailr(a)aol.com_ (mailto:gilasailr@aol.com) . _www.wrinkleboat.webs.com_ (http://www.wrinkleboat.webs.com) Thanks, GO Last year there were 12 boats - bring a friend and win a boat- - ANOTHER WrinkleBoat for your fleet!

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Re: M_Boats: M-15 centerboard woes
by nebwest2＠aol.com 29 Aug '14

29 Aug '14

I'm gonna throw in some observations here that I don't claim to be gospel, just humble,opinion. If the trunk,is what's swelling (vs the board), thinning the board might be a never ending process till you can't do it anymore. Rust never sleeps. Once that process is underway , I think you're boned. If you thin that board ....eventually that trunk will swell more and pinch it again. If it was me (and it has been three times now on three boats)....it's time to bite the bullet and fix the keel. You have got to find out where the water intrusion is happening, remedy that, then get that wet rusted stuff out of there. Its not gonna dry on it's own no matter how many holes you put in it. I even tried pumping compressed air into my 23s keel for a week in single digit AZ humidity. When I finally opened it up it was till a sopping wet mess inside. If you get that stuff out of there, the trunk will come back into shape, or you can use wedges to force it back while reinstalling lead and resin . If the trunk/keel is swelling and not remedied, eventually you can end up with the worse case scenario like my 17 had....where both the trunk and outside of the keel both split wide open. Thinning the board will buy you time but it won't remedy the situation, and you'll end up needing a new board as well. Of course , the statement above is worth exactly what you paid for it! Hang in there...at least you are sailing a Monty, a boat well worth the effort to repair! :-) S Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

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