May 2009 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: M15 gaff rig video
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 19 May '09

19 May '09

Very nice shots, thanx. Pushing the envelope is always exciting. Dick Newick always said, "you have to exceed the limit to find the limit". sal In a message dated 5/17/2009 11:11:08 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com writes: Bob, I was suprised how well the boat handled in the strong winds. Not much weather helm until you turn down wind and get that long boom out to the side. The sailmaker is Doug Fowler and he did a supurb job on those little jibs. On the way back the wind picked up closer to 30 kts in the gusts so I rolled up the outer jib and took one reef in the main and she just took off into the wind like it was blowing 15. When I approached the dock I rolled up the staysail but stalled out short of the dock. I tried to sail up wind with just the main but was doing poorly. I unrolled that little 25 sq foot staysail and again she just took off. Amazing little sail. I did keep the boat overcanvassed for the pictures. I really should have had a reef but it was too much fun. Thanks Doug --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Bob From California <ocean37(a)hotmail.com> wrote: From: Bob From California <ocean37(a)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 gaff rig video To: "Monty Listserver" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 11:48 AM Doug.... Very nice..!....It looks like you purposely back-winded (luffed up) the Main in those gusts...the two head sails seemed tight and kept the boat mov ing even with the poor shape (lufting?) on that big mainsail. Any steerage issues-heavy tiller..? On some points of sail it looks like the 15 is moving very fast. Later Bob Eeg > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 08:29:57 -0700 > From: doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > CC: amgura(a)verizon.net; mikeandpaula48(a)gmail.com; john(a)clcboats.com; fdurant(a)webhart.net > Subject: M_Boats: M15 gaff rig video > > I finnally got the video of my Gaff cutter, M15 to load. > > It is at: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YEbt5E9v7c > > No sound as the engine was running on the boat taking pictures and I have not learned how to overlay sounds/voice yet. > > Thanks > > Doug Kelch > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt… Excfooter51609NO62)

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Re: M_Boats: research
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 19 May '09

19 May '09

interesting. Thanx for the link. sal In a message dated 5/19/2009 2:32:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, haudsley(a)tranquility.net writes: Same place. Only the scale changes. Here is B&B's 15 foot cat ketch: http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs15.htm BTW, almost all of these small open boats have a third mast position somewhere just forward of amidships for use when the wind pipes up. You move the mizzen (aft) mast forward and run under one sail. On May 19, 2009, at 3:03 PM, SALGLESSER(a)aol.com wrote: > Hi Howard, > > Where would you locate the second mast on a Cat Ketch assuming a 16' > boat? > > sal > > _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt… Excfooter51609NO62)

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Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 19 May '09

19 May '09

Hi Bill, I guess there is a way to show or remove the "path" or "source" or header" depending on the program. It's an option you can select. I guess you "pushed the wrong button" and you will need to "un-push" the button. sal In a message dated 5/19/2009 2:01:21 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, SALGLESSER(a)aol.com writes: Hi Bill, I see it but have not idea why it's there. I'll print it our and get it to our IT guy to see if he has any thoughts. sal In a message dated 5/18/2009 10:52:38 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, bill(a)gotrain.org writes: x-authenticated : Sender SMTP authenticated by smtp.gotrain.org X-XM-SPF: eid=;;;mid=;;;hst=mx02.mta.xmission.com;;;ip=69.54.158.25;;;frm=bill@gotrain .org;;;spf=none X-XM-DomainKey: sender_domain=gotrain.org;;;sender=bill(a)gotrain.org;;;status=no signature X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 69.54.158.25 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bill(a)gotrain.org X-Spam-DCC: XMission; sa02 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on sa02.xmission.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.1 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_50,DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE, MISSING_HB_SEP,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Combo: ***;For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> X-Spam-Relay-Country: XX US X-Spam-Report: * 0.6 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is a abuseable web server * [66.81.28.31 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 2.5 MISSING_HB_SEP Missing blank line between message header and body * 0.0 T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG BODY: T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG * 0.0 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 40 to 60% * [score: 0.5000] * -0.0 DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE Not listed in DCC * [sa02 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1] Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:26:12 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mx02.mta.xmission.com) Can anyone tell me why every message I send to the group shows up with a lot of weird header information added to it. I'm assuming everyone sees it, and not just me. This doesn't seem to happen on any other list, and it only started happening a short time ago on this list. I would like to find out what's causing the extra material so I can try to eliminate it. Thanks for any help. Bill Day M-15 363, "Gee Whiz!" _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51609NO62) _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt… Excfooter51609NO62)

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Re: M_Boats: (no subject)
by SALGLESSER＠aol.com 19 May '09

19 May '09

Hi Bill, I see it but have not idea why it's there. I'll print it our and get it to our IT guy to see if he has any thoughts. sal In a message dated 5/18/2009 10:52:38 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, bill(a)gotrain.org writes: x-authenticated : Sender SMTP authenticated by smtp.gotrain.org X-XM-SPF: eid=;;;mid=;;;hst=mx02.mta.xmission.com;;;ip=69.54.158.25;;;frm=bill(a)gotrain.org;;;spf=none X-XM-DomainKey: sender_domain=gotrain.org;;;sender=bill(a)gotrain.org;;;status=no signature X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 69.54.158.25 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: bill(a)gotrain.org X-Spam-DCC: XMission; sa02 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on sa02.xmission.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.1 required=8.0 tests=BAYES_50,DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE, MISSING_HB_SEP,RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB,T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG autolearn=disabled version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Combo: ***;For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> X-Spam-Relay-Country: XX US X-Spam-Report: * 0.6 RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB RBL: SORBS: sender is a abuseable web server * [66.81.28.31 listed in dnsbl.sorbs.net] * 2.5 MISSING_HB_SEP Missing blank line between message header and body * 0.0 T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG BODY: T_TM2_M_HEADER_IN_MSG * 0.0 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 40 to 60% * [score: 0.5000] * -0.0 DCC_CHECK_NEGATIVE Not listed in DCC * [sa02 1397; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1] Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:26:12 +0000) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mx02.mta.xmission.com) Can anyone tell me why every message I send to the group shows up with a lot of weird header information added to it. I'm assuming everyone sees it, and not just me. This doesn't seem to happen on any other list, and it only started happening a short time ago on this list. I would like to find out what's causing the extra material so I can try to eliminate it. Thanks for any help. Bill Day M-15 363, "Gee Whiz!" _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823248x1201398651/aol?redir=htt… Excfooter51609NO62)

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Re: M_Boats: research
by W David Scobie 18 May '09

18 May '09

enjoy your trip jerry. when i worked in minnesota i took multiple trips to the boundary waters canoe area. my MN friends now love reminding me that the canoe we traveled with was longer than both my M15 and M17. look forward to your SCA article. i look forward to all of your writings as they are informative, and in many ways help me understand how you designed/built the Mboats. dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) M15 #288 - SCRED (for sale, http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred) --- On Mon, 5/18/09, jerry <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> wrote: Thanks again for your comments; they are still coming in and keep it up! I'm leaving this afternoon for an annual canoe camping/fishing in a wilderness are in the Sierras, and when I get back I'll review them and come up with some kind of concensus and post it. Looks like we are prejudiced in the way of wrinkles, as I suspected. For my next column for SCA I'm working on an artical on small boat interiors, which ties in with all this. jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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last call for an East Coast Cruise
by Doug Kelch 18 May '09

18 May '09

Mobjack Bay where the porpoise play. May 22 to May 25. Launching at Put in Creek and sailing accross the Bay. This is the mouth of the Chesapeake and has Pelicans, Flying fish and porpoise to keep you alert, if the ship traffic doesn't. Thanks Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day"

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Re: M_Boats: last call for an East Coast Cruise
by W David Scobie 18 May '09

18 May '09

a good opportunity to see how 'Seas the Day' performs against other M15s of more standard rigs. dave scobie M17 #375 - sweet pea (http://www.m17-375.webs.com) M15 #288 - SCRED (for sale, http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred) --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Doug Kelch <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> wrote: Mobjack Bay where the porpoise play. May 22 to May 25. Launching at Put in Creek and sailing accross the Bay. This is the mouth of the Chesapeake and has Pelicans, Flying fish and porpoise to keep you alert, if the ship traffic doesn't. Thanks Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day"

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market research
by jerry 17 May '09

17 May '09

Something more pleasant! I've been in a dialog with a builder to design a "Montgomery style" boat; probably 16', and I'd like to ask you for some opinions and comments. Lapstrake: How do you think the average buyer, looking for a boat in this size range, would look at a lapstrake hull as opposed to a smooth hull? You and I are probably prejudiced so we don't count. People can see that a lapstrake hull is dryer (but not much, really) and they can see that it's stiffer- again, not much. A lapstrake hull is a bit heavier but weight in a hull doesn't really slow the boat down enough to matter even to me. There is a cost factor, partly because of taking longer to lay up, a little more material, and because it takes a bit better molder, but not much, and really, the deck has more man hours in it than a hull so cost is a small factor. I don;'t believe there is a performance factor of any import. Maybe I'm saying too much; and the simple question is: which would sell best to the average buyer? I'm thinking the interior would be a roomier version of the 15, with a little more storage, and more comfortable sitting headroom. Also, the 15 cockpit is about 5.5' long, and when i'd take a 15 cruising I'd cleat the drop hatches to bridge the cockpit benches and sleep at a diagonal. This worked fine for me but would not work for most couples, especially if they fight a lot. The 17 cockpit, being over 6', was much better for sleeping in the cockpit. Here's the question : where would you like to see the extra foot of length- in the cockpit or the interior, or what combination of both? Any other comments would be welcome. My ex-wife used to call me a know-it-all but we all know I'm not! I think these subjects would be good for the list, but if you don't like speaking to a crowd feel free to email me directly at jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org. jerry

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Re: M_Boats: market research
by Doug Kelch 17 May '09

17 May '09

Jerry, I hope I am not too late to get in on your weekend thought process. My opinions are biased towards cruising so I would opt for spliting the extra lenght between the cockpit and cabin. In a small boat you do live in the cockpit much of the time. As other people have already noted the need for comfortable sitting head room would be an enormous advantage. The interior of the Sun Cat 16 was very nicely done but it had a lot of beam to work with. Perhaps a slide out table from under the cockpit floor, with sitting head room on the side would be a nice set up for writing, playing cards, doing email or reading charts on a rainy afternoon. As to the hull, I do like the looks of the lapstrake but a nice classic shear always adds a salty look. Until I found the Montgomery 15 I came close to building a Meadow bird 16 in the non lapstrake version. So you might consider a split sail cruising rig. I am finding my Gaff cutter to be a more verstile cruise than the bermuda rig and with the good long keel in the M15 I do not give up much to windard at all. Thanks Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas the Day" --- On Wed, 5/13/09, jerry <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> wrote: From: jerry <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> Subject: M_Boats: market research To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 3:25 PM Something more pleasant! I've been in a dialog with a builder to design a "Montgomery style" boat; probably 16', and I'd like to ask you for some opinions and comments. Lapstrake: How do you think the average buyer, looking for a boat in this size range, would look at a lapstrake hull as opposed to a smooth hull? You and I are probably prejudiced so we don't count. People can see that a lapstrake hull is dryer (but not much, really) and they can see that it's stiffer- again, not much. A lapstrake hull is a bit heavier but weight in a hull doesn't really slow the boat down enough to matter even to me. There is a cost factor, partly because of taking longer to lay up, a little more material, and because it takes a bit better molder, but not much, and really, the deck has more man hours in it than a hull so cost is a small factor. I don;'t believe there is a performance factor of any import. Maybe I'm saying too much; and the simple question is: which would sell best to the average buyer? I'm thinking the interior would be a roomier version of the 15, with a little more storage, and more comfortable sitting headroom. Also, the 15 cockpit is about 5.5' long, and when i'd take a 15 cruising I'd cleat the drop hatches to bridge the cockpit benches and sleep at a diagonal. This worked fine for me but would not work for most couples, especially if they fight a lot. The 17 cockpit, being over 6', was much better for sleeping in the cockpit. Here's the question : where would you like to see the extra foot of length- in the cockpit or the interior, or what combination of both? Any other comments would be welcome. My ex-wife used to call me a know-it-all but we all know I'm not! I think these subjects would be good for the list, but if you don't like speaking to a crowd feel free to email me directly at jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org. jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

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M15 gaff rig video
by Doug Kelch 17 May '09

17 May '09

I finnally got the video of my Gaff cutter, M15 to load. It is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YEbt5E9v7c No sound as the engine was running on the boat taking pictures and I have not learned how to overlay sounds/voice yet. Thanks Doug Kelch

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