April 2007 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Baiting the field... slightly OT, but sailing related
by bownez＠juno.com 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

Hi Gang, A boat can exceed hull speed if the current is moving rapidly in approximate same direction as your heading. Plus there have been times when the knotmeter takes a big jump sailing downwind and surfing down a wave. I will reduce sail if my M-boat continues to heel 30 degrees or more. I have seen 45 degrees on the M23 for very brief periods. Dick Lane tells a story of when he owned my M23, he encountered a brief wind sheer which laid the boat over so the spreaders touched the water. I believe he was sailing with his nephew aboard. It happened so suddenly that he had no time to release sheets. Neither person went into the water, and the the boat righted itself immediately. The whole situation was over in around 15 seconds. I'll pass on that experience, thank you very much. Later, Bones

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Re: Hull vs.Top Speed
by John R. Butler 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

My two cents worth: I calculate my M15's hull speed at 5.69 knots, or 6.54 miles per hour. (I used 18', since I don't know her Water Line Length, and the constants of 1.34 and 1.15.) Lacking a knot meter as of yet (any recommendations, ANY of you?), I don't know how fast my current M15 Rejoyce goes yet when pressed. My previous M15, Joy, had just the "Knotstik" to measure speed, and sailing on windy Stockton Lake in Southwest Missouri in November of 1989, with reefs in both sails, and winds measured on a hand-held instrument showing a steady 32 miles per hour, occasional gusts to 40, she rolled along at six knots. My last boat, a Charles W. Wittholz designed Cape Cod Catboat, circa 1963, The Old Cat (for obvious reasons), 18' 6", displacement 2,850 pounds, sail area (in a single quadrilateral gaff) 261 square feet (well over twice my M15's 122 in two sails) often exceeded her hull speeds of 5.76 kts/6.63 mph. My journal for 1/12/00 (sure, I sail all year around) reads: "A sustained puff on a broad port reach had us booming along at 6.72 knots." Later, on 5/12/00, ". . . logged a top speed of 7.39 knots on a very broad reach." (She carried an accurately calibrated electronic knot meter.) Summation, as others have more eloquently stated: Hull Speed is not a maximum speed. Keep on sailin', y'all! No, my e-mail address is not salacious, it just refers to my last sailboat, "The Old Cat." Check her out at <http://www.unicorn-systems.com/theoldcat.htm>

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Lake Michigan
by John and DesAnne Hippe 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

Sorry. Yes, May 19 and 20th.

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Lake Michigan
by John and DesAnne Hippe 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

So it sounds like we have some definate interest in getting together in Lake Michigan. I am always eager to get out as much as possible to take every advantage of our short sailing season. Personally, I am trying to get out for my first sail in the next week or so -- weather permitting. Like Joe, my schedule is also somewhat challenging as I often travel, but am thinking maybe the weekend of the 19th-20th might be a good time to set up a get together in Southern Lake Michigan. How does that sound? Too early? Ron, will you have your boat by then? Ann, how about you? I also like Dick's suggestion of the Garden Penninsula -- beautiful area and within striking distance of Door County (as suggested by John), Beaver Island, and other beautiful points. Maybe we could set up something for the latter part of the summer up there? And no, you don't need a Monty to join the fun :) Happy Sailing, John Hippe M-15

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Baiting the field... slightly OT, but sailing related
by brian gilbert 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

Hi folks: Here's the situation... I've finally gotten my wife to agree to a bareboat charter in the spring of next year, after our 12-year-old gets off for summer vacation. In general, she doesn't much care for sailboats. She'll indulge me for a quick afternoon on the Monty, IF the wind is blowing (but not too much... she gets very nervous past 15 degrees of heel) and we don't stay out too long. But I was a liveaboard sailor, and if I could talk her into it, I'd buy another large boat for some extended cruising. Karen's never overnighted aboard... my M17 is WAY too small for her. A charter, if everything goes right, is my big chance to get her hooked on the better parts of the sailing lifestyle. I was thinking of the Moorings in the BVI on about a 32 foot Beneteau or similar. I hear that's like deer hunting using a baited field... the Virgins are so pretty and the sailing is short and easy, or so I've heard. I've never chartered a boat before, though, so I need recommendations and advice from any of you who have. Any problems to avoid, things you wish you'd brought, or unexpected surprises? If everything goes just right, I know she'll fall in love with sailing a larger boat. If everything goes just WRONG, as it sometimes can... well, I'll probably never get her on a boat again. Your thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks Brian Gilbert

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Fwd: Baiting the field... slightly OT, but sailing related
by Carlos Albar-Diaz 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

Brian, I was in the same situation 6 years ago.. Now I am even taking my in-laws to the Caribbean..I would suggest you cover two points to ensure the best outcome. 1) Right place: You are spot on with the BVI; it took me a couple failed attempts (eg Sea of Cortez) to learn that. I have learned that if I want non-sailors to like it the right place for the "first time" is the BVI. 2) Right boat: I strongly suggest you go with a catamaran. I have taken lots of non-sailors on "frist time" bareboat trips and when we had a catamaran EVERYONE liked it. Plenty of space, lot of water tankage (no need to ration as much, which is hard for newbies), no one gets sick, plenty of spcace for non-sailors to lie reading a book, etc.. They also let you take friends and friends for the kids... On monhulls the record was mixed.. I know cats are expensive, but you can soften the blow significantly f you charter a smaller and older cat (sat 1999-2000 Island Spirit 37 or Athena 38) from a second tier company like North-South (have not used but is recommended) or Pro Valor (have used it;they are great).. Feel free to send me an email off the list if you want to discuss further. Best regards Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "brian gilbert" <hammerguy(a)bellsouth.net> To: < montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 8:52 PM Subject: M_Boats: Baiting the field... slightly OT, but sailing related > Hi folks: > > Here's the situation... I've finally gotten my wife to agree to a bareboat > charter in the spring of next year, after our 12-year-old gets off for > summer vacation. > > In general, she doesn't much care for sailboats. She'll indulge me for a > quick afternoon on the Monty, IF the wind is blowing (but not too much... > she gets very nervous past 15 degrees of heel) and we don't stay out too > long. > > But I was a liveaboard sailor, and if I could talk her into it, I'd buy > another large boat for some extended cruising. Karen's never overnighted > aboard... my M17 is WAY too small for her. A charter, if everything goes > right, is my big chance to get her hooked on the better parts of the > sailing > lifestyle. > > I was thinking of the Moorings in the BVI on about a 32 foot Beneteau or > similar. I hear that's like deer hunting using a baited field... the > Virgins > are so pretty and the sailing is short and easy, or so I've heard. I've > never chartered a boat before, though, so I need recommendations and > advice > from any of you who have. Any problems to avoid, things you wish you'd > brought, or unexpected surprises? > > If everything goes just right, I know she'll fall in love with sailing a > larger boat. If everything goes just WRONG, as it sometimes can... well, > I'll probably never get her on a boat again. Your thoughts will be > appreciated. > > Thanks > Brian Gilbert > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Baiting the field... slightly OT, but sailing related
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

I agree with Howard that anything over 15-20 degrees of heel is doing nothing for your speed except slowing you down. I would have to differ though on the point that anything beyond 30 is pushing the Monty's limit or putting the boat at too much risk. Although we agree that excessive heel slows you down, I must admit that I enjoy the working the old girl hard once in a while, usually when I am either single handed or just lazy and don't feel like getting up there and tucking a reef or switchin headsails. I know, I know .....reef early. I'm not oposed to reefing at all and often we do it. That being said, I have many times on both the 17 and 23 had the leeward cockpit coming awash with water when just messing around. Never has the boat even hinted of wanting to remain there or go any further. Simply easing the sheets or heading up slightly has always resulted in the boat getting right back on her feet. My personal opinion..and its just that....is that there is no way the Monty 17 or 23 is "going over" in any kind of flat water. You might be able to get the sails flat on the water, but at that point there is no more wind on the sails and the keel is sticking 5 feet out the other direction wanting to "go home!". A huge wave on a big sea, sure it could definitely happen but I feel pretty comfortable standing the old girl on her ear every now and then sailing in the conditions I do. Just my 2 cents. :-) I can't speak from experience on the 15 as I don't have much time on one. Sean M23 Dauntless M23 ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

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Re: M_Boats: Baiting the field... slightly OT, but sailing related
by Larry E Yake 14 Apr '07

14 Apr '07

Hull speed is not a brick wall, as such. You can, and will, frequently exceed hull speed if the conditions are right. The term just means the point at which the increase in speed for the effort exerted, either by sail or motor, hits such a sharp curve that you don't gain much beyond that point. Larry On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:26:33 -0600 "Fred L. Stout" <flstout(a)msn.com> writes: > Is hull speed expressed in knots? Your gps is statue miles as you > state. > If so, that may be the discrepancy. Just my 2 cents. > Fred > Waka iti, Pearson Renegade #65 > Montgomery 7 11 # 73 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Royce" <jeffroyce(a)sbcglobal.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Baiting the field... slightly OT, but sailing > related > > > > Good discussion... and one i was curious about. My GPS reading of > around 6 > > to 6.2mph must have been a bit inaccurate if hull speed is at > 5.5... > > correct? We flirted several times with 30deg but were at 25 alot. > It was > > only after reading Howard's post that i even remembered i had a > storm jib > > tucked away. Should have brought it out just to play around. This > is the > > year i learn, for real, how to sail. But i do have to tune her > up... she > > does not go anywhere near 45deg to the wind and i can't figure out > why. > > > > Jeff > > > > Nebwest2(a)aol.com wrote: > > I agree with Howard that anything over 15-20 degrees of heel is > doing > > nothing for your speed except slowing you down. I would have to > differ > > though on > > the point that anything beyond 30 is pushing the Monty's limit or > putting > > the > > boat at too much risk. Although we agree that excessive heel slows > you > > down, I > > must admit that I enjoy the working the old girl hard once in a > while, > > usually when I am either single handed or just lazy and don't feel > like > > getting up > > there and tucking a reef or switchin headsails. I know, I know > .....reef > > early. I'm not oposed to reefing at all and often we do it. That > being > > said, I > > have many times on both the 17 and 23 had the leeward cockpit > coming awash > > with water when just messing around. Never has the boat even hinted > of > > wanting > > to remain there or go any further. Simply easing the sheets or > heading up > > slightly has always resulted in the boat getting right back on her > feet. > > My > > personal opinion..and its just that....is that there is no way the > Monty > > 17 or > > 23 is "going over" in any kind of flat water. You might be able to > get the > > sails flat on the water, but at that point there is no more wind > on the > > sails > > and the keel is sticking 5 feet out the other direction wanting to > "go > > home!". > > A huge wave on a big sea, sure it could definitely happen but I > feel > > pretty > > comfortable standing the old girl on her ear every now and then > sailing in > > the conditions I do. Just my 2 cents. :-) I can't speak from > experience on > > the > > 15 as I don't have much time on one. > > > > Sean > > M23 Dauntless > > > > M23 > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at > > http://www.aol.com. > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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AOL Problems
by Keith Diehl 13 Apr '07

13 Apr '07

Just a heads up that I'm seeing a lot of member's subscriptions being automatically disabled because AOL is bouncing (returning as undeliverable) mail sent to their address. If you hear from anyone who's suddenly not receiving list mail, have them check their AOL account and then resubscribe to the list. ********* sample ********* This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: XXXXXX(a)aol.com SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection: host mailin-01.mx.aol.com [205.188.158.121]: 554- (RTR:SC) http://postmaster.info.aol.com/errors/554rtrsc.html 554 Connecting IP: 166.70.13.231

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testing, please ignore.
by Fuh-Shing Pan 13 Apr '07

13 Apr '07

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