September 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

M15 Downhaul
by Peter Deffenbacher 21 Sep '05

21 Sep '05

Hello all, The summer has almost passed in Portland OR and so I am planning for the next modification of Peanut and some sailing time! I want to install the Dwyer Downhaul/Main Reefing hook that fits the M15 but I can't find the email that it was mentioned in, on the BB. If anyone could help me I would appreciate it. Thanks, Peter M15 Peanut

2 1

Trinity Lake vs. Whiskey town
by Richard Cottrell 20 Sep '05

20 Sep '05

Whiskeytown Lake is a better sailing lake. More consistant winds. It's also very beautiful. I like Trinity because it's so much bigger and I'm able to rent a cabin at Trinity Center, a small community of 200 folks, near the lake vs. camping at Whiskeytown. Trinity is 20+ miles long. This year I set my genniker when the morning south winds picked up and ran for a couple hours. The winds gradually increased to 13 mph then faded. You can also get a pleasant evening sail. The exciting sailing comes when the north winds pipe up. Last year my forestay was singing in 22+ knots. I run every morning - watching coyotes and deer returning to their resting areas near the lake. I also hike in the Trinity Alps. The lake is at 2300 ft but the Alps are 6,000 to 8,000 ft looking down on the lake and with spectacular views of Mt. Shasta and Mt. Lassen. Each afternoon I go for a bike ride and visit with the locals. The fishing must be outstanding-there's Eagles and all sorts of raptors perched high atop the trees. They dive down to the lake to catch their meal. It's not uncommon to see deer fording the lake as you sail by. It is true that some days there may be no wind. Those are the days to beach the boat and do some swimming or use the motor to explore the many inlets along the lake. This year a M17 was sailing on the lake. The skipper told me he lives in Trinity area. His hull number is 494, built in 1991. I told him about our list and he said he will look into joining. Rich Cottrell

2 1

Connie's Toolbox Galley
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Hi Connie, Just today, I renamed your album on the PhotoSite. It now reads Connie's Toolbox Galley. I also , finally removed the other box that I had no info on. Someday, there will come along another solution that will equal the quality of yours. Request time: I NEED a photo of Leppo, preferably with you around her, for the Site. I'll put prior owner on the tag, and I'm pretty sure most of the list would like to see your photo. No pressure... Bill

1 0

Re: M_Boats: Trinity Lake vs. Whiskey town
by chbenneck＠juno.com 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Hi Rich, Thanks for such your lovely description of Trinity Lake. Sounds like an M-boater's paradise. Peace and quiet; great sailing; great wildlife; what more could you want? Years ago in early May as we were heading down the Connecticut River from our winter storage area to our summer marina, I spotted something strange bobbing in the river ahead of us. I slowed down and grabbed the binoculars, and saw that it was a deer and a faun swimming across the Connecticut River. What a sight. A one an only time I saw that. Eagles now are wintering on the lower Connecticut River, and Ospreys are abundant again. You just have to keep your eyes open... Enjoy your Trinity Lake description and thanks for letting us partaken your enjoyable adventure from a vast distance. Connie ex LEPPO

1 0

Re: M_Boats: Trinity Lake vs. Whiskey town
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

In a message dated 9/19/2005 10:08:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, rc2222(a)pacbell.net writes: This year a M17 was sailing on the lake. The skipper told me he lives in Trinity area. His hull number is 494, built in 1991. I told him about our list and he said he will look into joining. Pretty close to Tom Smith's M-17 #496. When I had "Tipperary" I made Boat Cards to hand out with the MSOG address on them so as to make it easier to get people to come aboard. The more the merrier Bill

1 0

Re: M_Boats: Trinity Lake vs. Whiskey town
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

In a message dated 9/19/2005 10:08:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, rc2222(a)pacbell.net writes: I also hike in the Trinity Alps. I've spent a good deal of time in the "Yosemite of the North" (Trinity Alps). Canyon Creek Lakes & all the way up to El, Grizzly Lake, and a couple I cant recall the names of. Very pretty part of the Country. I found out if you hike because it's there... you're called a "backpacker" And if you do so because of the fishing, you're then a "Fishpacker". Nice to have one last summertime excursion. Bill

1 0

Trinity Lake vs. Whiskey town
by Richard Cottrell 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Whiskeytown Lake is a better sailing lake. More consistant winds. It's also very beautiful. I like Trinity because it's so much bigger and I'm able to rent a cabin at Trinity Center, a small community of 200 folks, near the lake vs. camping at Whiskeytown. Trinity is 20+ miles long. This year I set my genniker when the morning south winds picked up and ran for a couple hours. The winds gradually increased to 13 mph then faded. You can also get a pleasant evening sail. The exciting sailing comes when the north winds pipe up. Last year my forestay was singing in 22+ knots. I run every morning - watching coyotes and deer returning to their resting areas near the lake. I also hike in the Trinity Alps. The lake is at 2300 ft but the Alps are 6,000 to 8,000 ft looking down on the lake and with spectacular views of Mt. Shasta and Mt. Lassen. Each afternoon I go for a bike ride and visit with the locals. The fishing must be outstanding-there's Eagles and all sorts of raptors perched high atop the trees. They dive down to the lake to catch their meal. It's not uncommon to see deer fording the lake as you sail by. It is true that some days there may be no wind. Those are the days to beach the boat and do some swimming or use the motor to explore the many inlets along the lake. This year a M17 was sailing on the lake. The skipper told me he lives in Trinity area. His hull number is 494, built in 1991. I told him about our list and he said he will look into joining. Rich Cottrell

1 0

Ratcliff Wind Steering Vane
by Steve Shenkel 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Anyone have an idea what the original new cost and current value for a Ratcliff Wind steering vane is worth. I would imagine that it is dated somewhere around the vintage of my M17 (1977). A local marine swap meet is coming up and I may decide to let it go. Thanks for your help in advance. Steve Shenkel M17 263 _/) <>< Arizona

1 0

Re: Outboard Motor selection
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 19 Sep '05

19 Sep '05

Steve, My responses to your two Honda Queries interspersed below: In a message dated 9/15/05 1:08:02 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com writes: >Of those using the 2 HP Honda's kicker for M17 how well do they work out >as >a kicker for a dingy? I have used my Honda 2hp long shaft on both my West/Zodiac 260 (identical to Zodiac 260) and West/Zodiac 200 (identical to Zodiac 200) dinghies with no problems whatsoever. >Are there any mounting modifications necessary to >utilize the long shaft feature on a dingy motor mount? None. The only difference between the short and long shaft models is the actual length of the drive tube/shaft below the engine mount, not the relationship of power head to the mount/clamp. My Honda manual only stipulates that the cavitation plate must be a minimum distance below the water. There is no maximum distance stated or required. Of course, you do need to be more cautious of shallow water/underwater obstructions with the long shaft, but we are only talking a few inches here. >What is the average >time or distance you can get from a tank full of gas? Mine is the earlier (pre-1998/99) model that is slightly less efficient than the newer/current models. I average just about 55 minutes/liter when using on the M15 (loaded for cruising), and slightly more (perhaps 70 minutes) when using on the 260 Dinghy. >Are there any >significant differences over the years of the various models of 2 HP >Honda's? Yes, very significant. The earlier (pre 1998 or 1999--can't remember exactly when the design changed) models such as my 1997 were very different. The older models were an 'L' head design, while the newer models are overhead valve. The latter yields increased efficiency and easier valve adjusts. The older models had air-cooled power heads/engines, *BUT* the exhaust (from just below head to outlet near prop) were *WATER COOLED* via an impeller pump in the lower end (a pain to change) and a tube traveling up the inside of shaft that injected cooling water just below the exhaust elbow exiting the head. The newer/newest models have apparently done away with the water-cooled exhaust altogether (the exact point at which Honda abandoned this feature is not clear to me). This is a good thing, as my older model is now in a few hundred pieces on my work bench as a result of water getting past the vertical crankshaft seal and into the crankcase (seal failed). I wouldn't miss the post saltwater use flushing required with my model either. The newer models also incorporate a plastic shroud covering the bottom 1/2 of the engine (in other words, the entire engine portion is now enclosed). Earlier models (including my '97 model) leave the lower portion of crankcase and exhaust exposed, and mine tends to accumulate considerable salt buildup from splash (in saltwater only, obviously). The newer models were/are available in four variants--short/long shaft, and standard/deluxe. The standard version is fixed drive (always in gear), and has slide lever throttle on front of engine. The deluxe utilizes a clutch drive that is in 'neutral' at idle, and engages forward drive as engine RPM is increased. It also employs a twist grip throttle on the steering tiller/handle. >Is the air-cooled Honda 2HP as quiet as the other Honda outboards are know >to be? The reason I ask is that I have a 2 HP Johnson air cooled motor >that I have used on our Zodiac. If I did not know any better, I would >have thought its means of propulsion was noise. I have traveled in tandem with a friend with a 3.3hp two-stroke Johnson, and I believe my Honda is quieter. At a minimum, it is lower in tone than the buzzy-sounding two-stroke. Perhaps it is better to say that it sounds different, even if not actually quieter, and to my ear, more tolerable. There is, however, more vibration than with a two-stroke (especially at certain RPM's). >The issue about the >dingy motor mount modification stemmed from a conversation I had with the dealer >from whom I bought our Zodiac. He indicated that with a long shaft >outboard, I would need to space up the longer shaft so that the motor would >work correctly (possibly a water intake issue as I remember). Over the >years it never made sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me either--again, because the upper end/mount of the short and long shafts are identical, and because the only requirement per Honda is that the cavitation plate (just above prop) is the minimum distance below the waterline. As for water intake concerns, the only requirement is that the intake (located near cavitation plate) be below the waterline (and then only in earlier models with water-cooled exhaust). >The only thing I could possibly come >up with was that the longer shaft would have more overturning torque if it >was cranked up when turned at 90 degrees to the centerline of the dingy. Does >anyone know if this long shaft issue with a dingy mount is fact, myth, >or personal misunderstanding? While I won't dismiss the physics of the argument, I think you will find that the flat bottom of the dinghy in question will just transfer lateral thrust to sideways motion, and again, there is only a small difference in shaft length here. I think you would require a tremendous amount of power to even notice such nuances. I certainly have not been able to induce any such overturn, and I have even played with grossly oversized engines on my 260 dinghy with the only result a sideways skid. >My Zodiac 260 is supposed to support a 4 HP motor, but the existing exchange >of the 2 HP motor from the stern rail of a bigger boat to the dingy mount >was always a defining moment for how the day would go! The extra mass >of a 4 HP motor is just that much more to deal with. I think I would first consider which motor is most appropriate to the mother ship (M17) and your intended use. Truthfully, your Zodiac 260 is not going to plane with a 4hp (Honda does not make a 4hp, but rather a 5hp), and I have found the 2hp more than adequate for typical dinghy use. >With a Honda 7.5, Johnson 4.5, and a Johnson 2 >in my quiver of possibilities, I would like to consolidate motors and come >up with one to accommodate the M17 and Zodiac. At first glance the Honda >2 would seem a little underpowered, but it might make a great compromise. There are times when my Honda 2hp seems just barely adequate for my M15 (SF Bay, Pacific Northwest tidal currents). If at all possible, try and borrow a Honda 2 for trial use on your M17 in your typical conditions. Best, Scott M15 #478 'bebe' PSC Flicka

2 1

Re: LEPPO
by chbenneck＠juno.com 18 Sep '05

18 Sep '05

Hi Listers, LEPPO is sold and at this moment is rolling North to her new home in Montpelier, VT. She was bought by a young couple who will be sailing primarily on Lake Champlain, but also on all the other larger lakes that are up in that area. Neptune was right when I met him this summer. The time has come to down size, and to start enjoying a more sedate and less strenuous rowing and sailing life with my new Shellback dinghy. Most of the little details that needed fixing, or refining, are completed. Shaw & Tenney's new 7'-6" spoon blade oars have been tried out and found totally delightful, and now to try out the sailing rig and see what modifications will have to be made there. One thing I already know is that the trailer I got with the Shellback is massive over kill. It weights twice as much as the Shellback does ( and maybe more). So, next step will be to order an aluminum trailer and reduce total weight. I'll keep lurking and add my $.02 occasionally. Joyful sailing everyone. Owning an M15 has been a great experience, and for it's size, it's the best boat out there. Jerry you did a marvelous job designing and building the M15s. ....and thanks for introducing me to Foster's Beer. It was a great aid in locating the C/B trunk leak, and in the repair process. Connie

1 0