December 2005 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Howdy
by Dsboz＠aol.com 06 Dec '05

06 Dec '05

Howdy, I'm a newbie from Montana. With 2 feet of snow this past week and temps approaching zero I escaped to the internet and an old dream. Enjoying the archives. No boat yet. Well actually some 5 "boats" by my wife's count. But no sailboat. I did part with the raft. So that should open a spot, right? Hope to find an M15. We're snow bird wannabes, building a place on Lake Istokpoga, Fl., looking forward to winters on the water. Dave Sharpe

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Re: M_Boats: Re 23 swingkeel
by Rmceagrella＠aol.com 06 Dec '05

06 Dec '05

Sean I too hope to insure unlimited resources in my next life as I have failed so miserably this time. Ha. I am equally interested in your stripping as I will have to do the same thing. For now the plan too is resource limited. I took the boat in to the boatwright yesterday and they are beginning work. The goal is to fix fiberglass first then a choice had to be made. Paint the topsides or go the extra mile to simply re spray the topsides with gel coat. It wont be a lot more expensive than a pro paint job because I will do the time consuming final polishing myself, but will be much more durable. My hope is to be able to fund the topsides and transom with the hull to be painted or gel coated at a latter date. I would love to simply tell them to have at it to completion but one has to balance ones obsessions with the needs of a happy marriage :). Tell me more on what kind of arrangement you have set up to lift the boat off the trailer. Talk to ya soon. Rick

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Re: M_Boats: Swing keel advice??
by Rmceagrella＠aol.com 06 Dec '05

06 Dec '05

Will do Larry. I've ground the non-skid off with 80 grit belt sander removed all old paint and sanded all at 120 grit. At this point I have turned it over to a local boat shop for spraying a white gel coat to be followed by a colored nonskid gel coat. I'll try to post a few pictures. Rick

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Re 23 swingkeel
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 06 Dec '05

06 Dec '05

Thanks for the info Rick. I didn't even consider that the pins might be tapered. I'll try measuring both sides diameter and see if I can identify which way they went in. The stands are supposed to be here Thursday. We hope to get the crane here next week and drop the keel while we move her off the trailer. A bit nervous about this? Yes, I am. I still have to come up with something to put the keel on so we can move it around without killing ourselves once its out. In my next life I plan on having unlimited funds so I can pay professionals to do all this. But then I'd miss having all that pride in the finished project....hahaha. What would I do to keep myself busy.....sail? :-) While waiting to get her hoisted the work continues on stripping the bottom on the areas I have access to while she's on the trailer. Using Peel-A-Way helps, but its no picnic. It takes at least two 24 hour applications and removal sessions to get through all the layers of bottom paint down to the old barrier coat, and that's not really "peeling", its more like "scraping". Then the remaining paint and barrier coat have to be sanded off. S--L--O--W. Very interested in your re-gelcoat job. Are you having it done or doing it yourself. Since I have so much bottom work to be done and all of my gelcoat topsides is in "fair" condition, I'd love to have the same thing done but figured the cost would be prohibitive. Sean

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Maria
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 06 Dec '05

06 Dec '05

Hi Maria Jorge, I sent you an Email "off list" and it may be stuck in your spam blocker folder. Let me know if you got it? Bill

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I'm electrified..
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 06 Dec '05

06 Dec '05

Hi All, Just a quick note. Thanks for the link to the Dana with the kite photography and thanks to Doug for the excellent photojournalism of the Main cruise. As you may be able to tell I'm now DSL'd and wireless to boot. Man this is fast! Bill

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Re: M_Boats: New Kick up rudder Idafailure story...
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 06 Dec '05

06 Dec '05

Excellent treatise, Carlos! For composite strength, stiffness, ease of manufacture, and plain ole durability, a good piece of wood is hard to beat. Steve In a message dated 12/4/2005 8:38:21 PM Central Standard Time, carlos.albar-diaz(a)alumni.haas.org writes: Tod, I recall getting into this mix of aeronautical stuff and structural engineering when I was in (structural) Engineering school and was wording on designing a "go fast" centreboard and rudder for a Snipe dinghy. This shear center business is important for "thin walled beams" that are hollow (or not hollow but filled with a different material, like some plastic rudders filled with foam) and closed like an airplane wing. It is most important for thin walled beams that are open, like the L profile you mentioned. In those cases the shear center can be outside the beam. Any civil/mechanical engineering student should be able to calculate the shear center for your rudder given a drawing of the cross section. The aerodynamic center is more difficult. If the cross section of the rudder follows a NACA profile (this is a sign of a well-made rudder) then you can find this in a book. Look for "NACA profiles" in an engineering library. If the cross-section does not follow a NACA profile then you would need tank testing or a wind tunnel.. This shear center business is not as important for non-hollow beams made of a uniform material, such as a wooden boat rudder. A well designed rudder will have a cross section shaped like a "NACA profile". I recall that for every reasonable NACA profile that I looked at the shear center for a non-hollow section was relatively close to the aerodynamic center. With "relatively" I mean it was not far enough to create measurable twist, thanks to the thickness and non-hollowness of the rudder, which gives great rigidity to torsion/twist. To make a long story short, if we rule out hollow or open-section rudders (eg like the L profile in the example) we should not be worried about twist (this is around a vertical axis) of a good rudder. We should be concerned about plain bending to windward. I agree that plastics like HDPE are not stiff enough for this job until proven otherwise. In addition, they will only float if the section is made hollow, which creates other problems such as tearing out of the fittings and "shear center". All this before we get concerned about what happens when the plastic gets exposed to the sun. If a manufacturer of aftermarket rudders made of anything other than solid wood is serious about what they do they should be able to tell you all about shear center, aerodynamic center and the like. Have you asked them? Regards Carlos

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RE: M_Boats: Swing keel advice??
by Hughston, Larry 05 Dec '05

05 Dec '05

Rick, will be taking photos and giving us all a description of your gel coat work? Tell what you're using and how it is applied, etc. ---Thanks, Larry M-15 # 189 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+larry.hughston=dgs.ca.gov(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+larry.hughston=dgs.ca.gov@mailman.xmission. com] On Behalf Of Rmceagrella(a)aol.com Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 11:48 AM To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Swing keel advice?? S. I remember that when I replaced the centerboard on my M15 I called Jerry M and he had told me the pins on Montgomerys are inserted from one direction and should only be driven out in the opposite direction as they shaped. I believe the convention is they are inserted from right to left but am not sure...please confirm. Let me know as I may need do something similar to My M23. Just dragged mine to the shop today. Plan: repair all fiberglass then re-gel coat the deck and cockpit. Rick _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: Swing keel advice??
by Rmceagrella＠aol.com 05 Dec '05

05 Dec '05

S. I remember that when I replaced the centerboard on my M15 I called Jerry M and he had told me the pins on Montgomerys are inserted from one direction and should only be driven out in the opposite direction as they shaped. I believe the convention is they are inserted from right to left but am not sure...please confirm. Let me know as I may need do something similar to My M23. Just dragged mine to the shop today. Plan: repair all fiberglass then re-gel coat the deck and cockpit. Rick

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Lake Istokpoga location
by Dsboz＠aol.com 05 Dec '05

05 Dec '05

Hi Maria, Thanks for the welcome. Lake Istokpoga (Lake of the Dead, Many Men Died Here, of Lake of Legends - depending on the guide book, is near Sebring, 150 miles NW of Miami. It's large, 26,000 acres, full of alligators (3,000), bass but shallow with lots of hydrilla. So the sailing will probably be elsewhere, hopefully lots of elsewheres.

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