August 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

New owner -- looking for advice (long)
by David Wood 14 Aug '04

14 Aug '04

Hello all, Thanks in large part to all of you who posted pictures of your M15s, and with a little luck, as of yesterday I'm the owner of a nicely maintained 1981 M15 (Hull #163). I've only been out on the water in her once, but I think it's the start of something good. Now for the hard part, becoming a better sailor and making the boat fit me. Becoming a better sailor will come with time and experience, but in order to get the boat "just so" I am asking for some more help from you fine folks. I've created a quick and dirty web site: www.opendoor.com/dwood/m15 and placed a bunch of pictures of the boat there. If any of you have absolutely nothing better to do, I'd appreciate those who have an opinion about M15s surfing over to my site and looking at the pictures. You can click on the thumbnails to enlarge them. Then just keep clicking "Next." There are a number of things that the previous two owners have modified on the boat, and some of them I know I will change. But others I'm not yet sure about. The standing rigging is the original 23-year old hardware, and I'm not sure how seaworthy it is. The mainsheet cleat has been moved aft and the tiller shortened, so the helmsman is forced to sit next to the transom--something I gather negatively affects the trim of the boat. The last owner built some funky shelves, a pail portapotty setup, and a battery box in the cockpit, all of which I'm going to remove and/or modify. But for now I'm just going to sail her. This winter I'll pull her into the garage and fix most of the things that need fixing and get rid of the things I don't like and replace them with things that I do. Until then I'm going to confine my sailing to the nearby lakes of southern Oregon. But long term I hope to take her out into the Pacific, and by then I hope to have made her into a more seaworthy vessel. Right now I'm not too sure about a few things like the standing rigging, not to mention my own sailing skills. So the rest of the summer will be one long shakedown cruise. Anyway, please have at me if you have the time and inclination. Most particularly I am interested in what to do with the main sheet setup. Should I put it back the way it was when Jerry Montgomery delivered her? Should I go with what's current on new M15s? Or should I install something altogether different? If you can tell by looking at the pictures, should I replace the standing rigging before I take on big wind? And are there any problems that you can see in the pictures that you think I may need to address right away? Any opinions are appreciated. And thanks again for all of the good info I got from lurking here and exploring the archives. And thanks also to Bob Eeg for letting me visit his shop and showing me how well made these little boats are. Sorry I didn't buy a new one from you. But maybe a new M17 will be in my future. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)woodatwork.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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Re: M_Boats: At the launch ramp
by Larry E Yake 14 Aug '04

14 Aug '04

Doug, you must be some sort of magician. I got a headache just reading this. I can't imagine how much time and thought went into devising this plan! Larry On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Doug Kelch <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> writes: > This is tough problem. I have done this a couple of > times using long lines, snatch blocks and a small > vinyl coated lead anchor. > > First case was a ramp on the ICW in Savannah GA - no > immediate dock with ramp "protected" by rip rap. There > was a dock about 70 ft away from the ramp out in the > ICW. > > I used the 200 ft anchor line to run from the bow > cleat long the side of the M15 along inside the stern > clear but not cleated. The line continued to the dock > (you could walk to the dock on a long bridge)through a > snatch block attached to the dock back to the trailer. > A second 20 foot bow line was also attached for short > term control. > > Launch the boat as normal holding both lines - making > sure everything is running free. Take up the slack on > the long line to the dock and if everything looks OK > toss the short bow line on to the deck (usually falls > in the water but so what) and haul away. When the > boat is floating clear about 1/2 way to the dock > (wind, current considerations and stuff)I walk around > to the dock taking up the slack line. At the dock > will give slack on the line, reach down and flip the > line and it will usually hop off of the slot by the > stern cleat and then bring it in bow on. > > Reversing this requires two long lines to get the bow > line all the way to the trailer. Unless there is no > cross current or wind that would cause a loss of > control if you didn't have lines to both bow and > stern. > > Next case is Nothing to tie to and walk to out from > the dock. > > I have an aluminum stern ladder which I can use and at > most ramps the M15 keel will be clear of the bottom > with the water depth slightly above the knees with the > stern towards land. So - how to arrange this? > > The vinyl covered anchor will serve as the outer > pulling point. > I will try to describe the end goal first. > > Picture the boat pleasantly at anchor 15 ft off shore. > The anchor line routing is unusual however. > Consider a line running from the anchor to a block at > the bow ( I use a snatch block with a long tail to the > deck cleat) back to a block attached to the anchor > line about 5 - 10 ft from the bow and back to you on > shore. If you also have a stern line to the boat you > can then pull the boat to shore with the stern line > while giving slack on the bow line. With the stern at > the ramp you wade out, climb up the stern ladder and > haul the M15 back off shore. > > How do you get to this end state from the trailer? > you pre-rig the anchor ahead of time with an extra > double line trough the eye at the anchor. The thin > line is not tied but one end is threaded though the > eye and back to the second end. The anchor is then > place in a location on the boat so that it can be > "tripped" off of the deck when the boat is deep > enough. > > So when everything is set you launch the boat. Push it > hard off shore and when it gets where you want it - > trip the anchor off the deck and let go of the > launching bow line. You presumably are now holding > the free end of the anchor line and the stern line. > You can tie them both to a convenient tree or dumpster > and go park your car. > Obviously all lines must run free with no snags but > with some thought it does work re-reliable. > > The reverse of this works with a little power assist > from your trusty outboard to get the stern into the > shallows. You then move the boat off shore again while > you get your trailer in place. When the trailer is in > place pull the boat close to shore, swing the bow > around with the extra long bow line, which you > thoughtfully led back and tied off to the long stern > line, and pull the bow up on the trailer. > > If it is too confusing email me off line and I will > draw diagrams and send them. > > > > > --- Sea witch <seawitchlj(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > The challenges of the singlehander in launching the > > boat are indeed not in getting it off the trailer, > > but since in my case where I launch, primarily used > > by pwc's and bass fishermen, the dock is quite a > > distance from the rock encrusted ramp. The > > challenge is to scramble over the trailer tongue, up > > over the bow of the boat, get back into the cockpit, > > get the Honda 2hp started, get it rotated around so > > you can get it into reverse and oh by the way, did > > you remember to unhook the trailer hook from the bow > > of the boat? Now, if the motor starts on the first > > or second try, and if it stays running while you > > maneuver it around into the reverse position, then > > you will be OK unless in the meantime, it has > > drifted off the trailer, and the waves have carried > > it up onto the rocks or the other ramp area. Once > > the boat is heading towards the dock, no problem, > > just tie up and jog back to the truck and get it > > moved up the ramp and parked. The reverse, getting > > it back on the trailer is actually > > somewhat easier. Once it's on the trailer, getting > > off and hiking up the trailer to the tongue isn't > > quite so challenging. Doing all of this and > > remaining dry is of course impossible. I think the > > best course of action is to find a launch site which > > has the dock right along side where you only have to > > move the boat with the bow and stern lines. That's > > my next plan. > > > > > > Time for a cool change! > > Sandra(Seawitch #617) > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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Re: M_Boats: New owner -- put mainsheet back
by chbenneck＠juno.com 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Hi David, Welcome to the clan. As for the shortened tiller, ............wrong! wrong, .......wrong! The get the M15 to sail at her best, you have to keep the transom out of the water. To do that, you have to sit forward in the cockpit - not aft! Weight has to be centered to keep from dragging the transom. I built a tiller extension for my standard length tiller so that: I could sit all the way forward in the cockpit (I sail by myself mostly) the tiller extension end was raised to a comfortable height for this sailing position - not hitting your knees. A big improvement! To test the idea, tie any sort of extension to your tiller using bungee cords; Velcro straps; and see what it does for ease of steering and better boat balance. Connie M15 #400

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BACK ON LINE
by gosail＠adelphia.net 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

I had unsubscribed for several months as I knew I had a lot of traveling for both business and vacation. If I unsubscribe in a few days it means I'm on my way to Port Charlotte, Fla. (I'm in the insurance adjusting business). I just put my boat in the slip last week. However my daughter, son in law and I first detoured to Lake Ontario for a day sail out of Oswego, NY. The wind could have been stronger but the little 15' ship sure can handle the swells. I am going to watch the marine reports for a day with 10 to 15 knot winds out of the West, 2' to 4' seas and no chance of thunderstorms. It takes 3 hrs to drive to Oswego. Jerry Williams

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Boom length
by Rik Sandberg 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Hello M list, Been looking at the pictures on the M-15 site and have come to the conclusion that the booms on new M-15s are longer than the boom on my M-15. I wonder, can everybody else get their boom into their cabin? Mine will go inside by about an inch. I'm asking because either my sail is a bit large, or my boom is a bit short. When I pull my main outhaul up tight there is barely any space at all left between the leech cringle and the eye at the end of the boom. In fact, it might be that I could pull the outhaul further (not much) if I had more room. Haven't measured the boom yet, guess I should have before I asked the question. Rik

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RE: M_Boats: New owner -- is picture backwards, or am I?
by Smith, Tom 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Sure, that works to cleat the line, but with a knot in the line above the hole in the bridge deck, it's no-brain to keep it off the pin. Your method works, but with the knot, you won't have to experiment. I think M15 sheeting as-designed works very well David. A traveler on the floor might be overkill, but what the heck, it's an excuse to buy more hardware. t Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15--345 Chukar M17--064 Unnamed

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Re: M_Boats: New owner -- is picture backwards, or am I?
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Charless Fawlkes moved his mainsheet cleat to a little triangular piece of teak mounted to the underside of the existing bridge deck.While it moved the mainsheet cleat a scant 4" astern, it made the bridgedeck an excellent place for a crewman to sit, feet in the companionway, while tending the jib sheets. The slight movement rearward had no effect on sailing performance that I could see; in fact I think Charless won the small boat division of the cruiser challenge one year. If it were me I'd certainly emulate his modification. Cheers Steve Tyree, P-15 In a message dated 8/13/2004 1:39:28 PM Central Standard Time, dwood(a)woodatwork.com writes: As for the mainsheet, I'm thinking the same way you are; put it back. I haven't had a chance to really test it out in its current configuration, but I'm inclined to believe that Jerry Montgomery knows more about these things than the previous owner. However, I gather the M17s have some sort of traveler on the cockpit floor, and that might be worth exploring, if there's room.

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re: New owner -- looking for advice (long)
by David Wood 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

> My rudder set up looks like yours. I have bent the little keeper > "clip" back to make sure it contacts the pintle. The clip makes solid contact. I was just thinking it might be good to have some sort of positive locking feature to make sure the rudder doesn't accidentally pop out in rough conditions > The hole in the end of the tiller looks like it may be for a tiller > extension. Is there one rolling around below the cockpit somewhere? > I agree that a longer tiller would be useful. No, nothing the previous owner left behind anyway. And yes, that hole looks ideally suited for an extension. I gather that the Forespar extension seems to work for a lot of people here. > I would be concerned about the swivel block on the end of the boom. > Does the sheet get twisted? Don't know. But if I move the main sheet cleat back to its original position (and I probably will), that will also be removed and replaced with the original block. > How does the boat sail with that mainsheet arrangement? Is is hard to > sheet in, or do you have enough experience with it? Not yet. I'll leave it the way it is for now. But by this winter I expect to have figured out what works for me and what doesn't. > I am thinking of going to a Ronstan Smart Ratchet block on the end of > my boom with either a single block and cam or fiddle block and cam. I > beleve if the ratchet is on the end of the boom it should give more > assistance when holding the main as it would be wrapped a fulll 180 > degrees around the block. I'll check that out. Thanks for the info. > Enjoy your M Boat! That's my plan! Thanks! David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)woodatwork.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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New owner -- looking for advice (long)
by David Wood 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

> David; > The fittings at the end of the boom are used for the mainsail > outhaul > and the fairlead is for the reef line attachment point. I don't know > what the > cleat is for but you said you knew. Maybe for a topping lift. Hmm. Maybe I don't know what the cleat is for. I had assumed that it was for the mainsail outhaul. I'm going sailing again with the previous owner soon, so perhaps he can clue me in. David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)woodatwork.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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New owner -- is picture backwards, or am I?
by David Wood 13 Aug '04

13 Aug '04

Thanks for your advice Tom, No, the picture is not backwards, the shallow locker is on the port side on my boat. I had no idea that it was unusual. As for the mainsheet, I'm thinking the same way you are; put it back. I haven't had a chance to really test it out in its current configuration, but I'm inclined to believe that Jerry Montgomery knows more about these things than the previous owner. However, I gather the M17s have some sort of traveler on the cockpit floor, and that might be worth exploring, if there's room. I'm not sure what you mean about the knot in the CB pendant. While trailering I rest the CB in the trailer rollers, and while sailing I cleat it off with just a bit of tension on the pendant to keep the CB off of the stop pin. Where would I put the knot and what is its purpose? Thanks again, David =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= David W. Wood -=- dwood(a)woodatwork.com 1981 M15 -=- Hull #163

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