November 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: History Question #1
by Larry E Yake 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

Thanks, Craig! Tullamore's not totally "yare" yet, but I'm working on it. The old ports can be dressed up a bit by painting the aluminum frame black (using a self etching paint) and replacing the plexi with tinted. Looks pretty sharp with the black aluminum toe rail and a black boot stripe. Larry On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:43:38 -0500 "Craig F. Honshell" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> writes: > > "6) Ports: The pre-1981 boats had ports with aluminum trim rings > around them, > whereas on the new mold there were recesses molded into the > coach-roof sides, and the > ports just bolted right into the recesses, with no trim rings." > > The trim ring was a good feature . . . I really like those older > windows . . . For > the yarest "old deck" Monty I've seen, witness Larry Yake's > Tullamore . . . I can't > believe how immaculate he keeps her . . . Puts me to shame with my > '84 . . . When I > put her away this past month, she looked like one of those derelicts > you see on back > lots with their tarps rotted away . . . And that was from just about > 4 months' worth > of use . . . > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rachel > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 10:42 AM > Subject: History Question #1 > > Hi Bill and other M-ers, > > Okay, I'll take a stab at this one - although I think some of it > might > already be mentioned in Jerry Montgomery's "History of the M-17," > which > is ... I can't remember where to find it - must be on MSOG > somewhere. > > I think most of the major changes took place in 1981, when they made > a > new mold because the old one was getting a bit worn from use. My > old > hull #331 was apparently the first "new" boat. I say this because > I > found an older-style M-17 which was also a 1981 and also had hull > #331. > At any rate, it was 1981 sometime. > > I'll list what I remember as the changes: > > 1) Improved hull-to-deck joint. Not sure exactly how the old one > worked, but the new one protrudes more on the outside and takes > both > the hull and deck and folds them into an upside-down U-shape > together. > I believe that all of the old boats had the perforated aluminum > toe-rail, whereas most of the new ones had the teak toe-rail, but a > few > had the perforated aluminum (which was apparently more expensive and > harder to install, and probably more functional; but apparently > "the > public" preferred teak). The improved hull-to-deck joint also ran > all > the way across the transom (thus the motor cut-out was eliminated), > giving it much more strength (I have seen a number of the older > boats > that had small cracks running vertically at the place where the > transom > turns into the topsides.) > > 2) In the cockpit, the cooler was eliminated from the "benches," > and > the benches were made completely flat (I believe, but am not sure, > that > the older model had some diagonal grooves at the forward corner of > the > benches for drainage? That's what I was trying to say when I said > the > new ones were flatter.) > > 3) In addition to the motor cut-out being eliminated, a "wet > locker" > was created across the back of the cockpit. Essentially a > continuation > of the cockpit "benches" across the stern, but isolated from all > other > lockers and inside spaces. It had a lifting lid, just like the > other > bench lockers. > > 4) Cockpit drainage: IIRC, the older boats had copper tubing > glassed > into the hull for cockpit drains (or just one drain?). My > early-new-style 1981 had what I believe were fiberglass tubes > glassed > into the bilge for cockpit drainage, but the tubes were below the > waterline. I think that newer-new-style boats went to > above-the-waterline transom drainage, but I don't know exactly when. > I > think the newest boats utilize a one-way valve to allow water to go > out > but not come in ... ? > > 5) Forehatch: The pre-1981 boats had a forehatch that was flush > with > the deck, whereas the 1981-and-later boats have a hatch that sits > "on > top" of the deck. > > 6) Ports: The pre-1981 boats had ports with aluminum trim rings > around > them, whereas on the new mold there were recesses molded into the > coach-roof sides, and the ports just bolted right into the > recesses, > with no trim rings. > > > 7) Backstay attachment: I don't remember how the backstay was > attached > on the older boats (perhaps stainless tangs bolted to the > transom?), > but on the newer boats - with the rolled hull-to-deck joint - (hazy > memory alert!) there is a short piece of what looks like re-bar > (but > which must be stainless of some kind) tucked into the groove > created > under the hull-to-deck joint's lip, and the backstay fittings are > anchored in that way. > > 8) Below-decks layout: I'm fairly sure that all of the pre-1981 > boats > had the one settee (quarter berth) + galley layout, whereas starting > in > 1981, you had a choice between that and two settees (which both > doubled > as quarter berths). Now I'm really straining my memory, but I > think > with the two settee layout, the cockpit lockers were small, ie: you > lost the great cockpit-locker stowage you had with the galley model > (unless you cut them out later on) (more on this below in "later > mods"). > > 9) Things I'm not so sure about: ... > > At some point, the centerboard-raising winch might have been moved > outside? Or maybe it was eliminated with the fiberglass board? > (See > below). I also think that the main-sheet traveler might have been > moved around a bit in the cockpit. Were earlier ones closer to the > companionway? I believe mine on hull #331 was about 9" to 12" > abaft > the companionway. > > I always wondered if the "turn" from the coachroof to the > coachroof-sides might have been a squarer profile on the pre-1981 > boats > -- or perhaps it was something I just *thought* I noticed when > looking > at a shot of the bulkhead at the rear of the cabin (as in a photo > looking from the tiller towards the bow). > > 10) Later mods: Starting around 1986, you could get a "short > settee > berth" instead of either the galley or the second full quarter > berth. > Then you had the advantage of two people being able to sit facing > each > other below AND the huge cockpit locker of the galley model. Also > in > 1987 (IIRC), the centerboard went from iron to fiberglass with lead > (early on maybe steel?) ballast encapsulated in it. The new board > is > wider than the old iron one, so the keel stub was modified at the > same > time to accommodate the new board. Also, whereas the old, iron > board > had a "stop tang" to keep in from dropping too far, the new > fiberglass > board utilizes a knot in the rope, like the M-15 does. > > That's all I can think of right now. There's probably more - and > I've > certainly erred in some of my "facts," so feel free to correct me! > > --- Rachel > Boat shopping for something a little bigger than the M-17 (to live > aboard), but darn! you have to go SOOO big to get much more than > the > M-17 offers - it's especially hard to beat that fine cockpit > layout. > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >

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History Question #1
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

Looks to me like there have been some changes made to the 17 over the years... Does anybody know when the motor cut out went away? When was the forward hatch changed from a smooth hatch to a raised hatch? What other major cosmetic changes have there been? Inquiring minds want to know Bill www.msog.funtigo.com

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Re: M_Boats: Rail bolts
by Larry E Yake 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

>>I was trying to clean up the anodized toe rail and did not have much luck with the regular polish I was using for the hull. What product should be used to shine it up? Mine shined up nice using Penatrol. Larry

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Re: M_Boats: Rail bolts
by Sandyal55＠aol.com 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

The toe rail amidships is where jib sheet blocks are usually attached. There's more stress on them in this area. That's why the bolt spacing is closer together. Most aluminum rails are anodized. I would suggest a good cleaning but don't try to polish too vigorously. If you go thru the anodizing, corrosion could set in.

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Rail bolts
by Rotortom2＠aol.com 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

I have a couple of questions for the group. I have the aluminum toe rail (I hope that is the correct terminology) on my M-17, and I was polishing the boat today in preparation for a trip to either San Carlos Mexico or Loreto Mexico. I was trying to clean up the anodized toe rail and did not have much luck with the regular polish I was using for the hull. What product should be used to shine it up? Second question: I noticed that the spacing between the SS bolts at the stern and the bow along the Hull to deck joint was about 3 inches, whereas toward the middle the spacing was reduced to about 2 to 2 1/2 inches. What is the reason for the change in spacing? Tom Woodworth M-17 #330 "Wild Hare"

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Re: M_Boats: Web Pictures
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

Thanks Don for the Compliments. Regarding the Orion. They are a favorite of mine also. Amazing how much they've kept the resale value. A nice one twenty years old being usually over 30 or 40K. Here in SF, There are several of the early Orions with the port lights like the Dana, you know just two on each side. I think they went to three in 81 or 82. Ilike the early ones the best. Anyway, you're right, there's lots of them on SF Bay. Thanks again, Bill

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Re: M_Boats: track lube
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

Tod, My main is at the sail shop having the second set of reef points installed (SF-Bay Winds). So, there's no hurry, but if you could do a measurement it would be wonderful. I agree on the slugs. So much easier to deal with. Did you put a gate or a stop at the bottom so you can flake the sail? Bill

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RE: M_Boats: track lube
by Steve R. 13 Nov '04

13 Nov '04

Bolt rope good. Lazy jacks make bolt rope better. No sail on deck. No learning curve. The helm has unobstructed vision. (When mama is happy...) There is only so much room in the cockpit for two people and their accoutrements. Why drop the main there? The best part is, I give power boaters the impression I know what I am doing. $20 in parts. Two minutes to set-up or take down. (Posted wirelessly from Hagerstown, MD. Almost close enough to the Chesapeak to smell the marine air. While I am not on a boat I am wet enough to have been turtled today.) steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY "William B. Riker" <wriker(a)mindspring.com> wrote: Subject: RE: M_Boats: track lube Right, the sail falls on the deck. Then you roll, fold and/or flake it into a tidy package, and tie it to the boom. It took me a while to perfect the technique, but I never could get the main to flake nicely when it had slugs, so this works for me. Bill Riker M15 #184 Storm Petrel

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Re: M_Boats: track lube
by Sandyal55＠aol.com 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

In a message dated 11/11/2004 7:02:01 PM US Mountain Standard Time, shawn(a)ori.org writes: . Simple is best. When you anchor for the night and don't want to put the main away, slugs are the only way to go. Otherwise the main falls all over the deck. Try using a bolt rope on a 23 or a boat larger. The thought is ludicrous. The bolt rope is fine for a small sail on a little boat, but is a burden when the main is much bigger.

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Re: M_Boats: Bolt rope
by LUDLOWD2＠aol.com 12 Nov '04

12 Nov '04

I race with some guys on a C&C36 with a bolt rope main. Very hard to raise, takes three people. The only time in my life I had trouble getting it up (mainsail I mean). Slugs do just fine on an M-15. Don

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