November 2004 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: More... Two more cents worth
by BILLAMICASR＠aol.com 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

More 2 cents worth... If you're trading down in size... don't have the $ for a Monty and you are interested in the P-15. Make sure you do a test sail!!!!! Read my $5,000.00 encounter with the P-15, before I traded up to a M-17. Go to: www.Billamicasr.funtigo.com and open the FEATHER album. I'm not bad mouthing them. All I'm saying is that it takes some getting used to... trying to go from a stable platform of a craft, to a squiggly little boat that has no permanent keel. After owning the Potter 15, I can tell you, when I went out for a little ride in SF Bay with Bob Becker in his M-15, I was immediately satisfied with stability. The rest of the sail, including boat handling, seaworthiness and speed were the icing on the cake. Great boat. I almost ordered a new one and the (M-17) girl of my dreams came up for sale. I spent at least 6 months bugging Bob Eeg at Nor'Sea Yachts about M-15's & 17's. And best of all... when I bought "Tipperary" (my M-17), he congratulated me in finding such a nice boat. Now, how cool is that coming from the manufacturer? Glad to see you are getting the chance to look at the M-15. One of the things you'll need to do is get in the cabin and make a comparison of cabins as well. Hope you get to sail one... there is no comparison. Financially... if you must. Hang around the group for a while save your money, find out which years are the best. Ask lots of questions, save more money. If you really do want an M-Boat. One will find you. It works that way... (just thinking) Bill M-17 "Tip"

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M-15 Mast raising
by Rick Langer 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

Don't forget to add another 20 minutes to talk to admirers. It happens so frequently that when I see someone, out of the corner of my eye, heading my way I just stop what I'm doing and smile. The P15 might be cute, but the M15 is beautiful. Here's an interesting mast raising anecdote. About a month ago, while rigging my boat on the trailer, the wind was blowing so hard that I couldn't get the headstay pinned. I thought of turning the boat around so the wind would be coming over the stern, but there were overhead obstructions that would have been a problem once the mast was up. I ended up using the topping lift to tension the mast forward while I pinned the headstay. Well I reefed the main and jib before going out and had the best sail of the season. The Hudson River was a lonely place that day. I saw one other sailboat (30' +) motor out of a marina, turn around and motor back into the marina, never raising a sail. I had a ball thanks to a wonderful little boat. Rick Langer M15 #337 > Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:08:19 -0800 > From: Michael Matthews <mike_matthews(a)comcast.net> > Subject: M_Boats: M-15 Mast raising > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <418A53F3.9010807(a)comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Wow, this is a pretty amazing list! Thanks for all > the feedback on my question about the difficulty in > raising the mast on an M-15. You folks have convinced > me! Additionally, a M-15 owner here in the area has > offered to show me his boat and how to raise the mast. > I'll be taking a look at his boat as soon as we can > setup a time. > > Thanks again for all the feedback! > What a great resource this list is! > > Take care, > Michael Matthews > 26' Tartan > 8' Bolger Skimmer > 8' PDRacer > Maybe...soon...15' Montgomery? > >

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RE: M_Boats: Fixed keel
by Smith, Tom 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

Hi Doug. Jerry mentioned in a recently published interview in Small Craft Advisor that only the first few M17s had fixed keels. Don't know what that means in numbers, but you are the first M17 sailor I've encountered who's owned one. Has anyone else even seen one? t Tom Smith and Jane Van Winkle M15--345 Chukar M17--064 Unnamed

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Re: M_Boats: Two more cents worth
by mike_matthews＠comcast.net 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

I've built two small boats now and have come to the realization that I'm much more of a sailor than a boat builder. With that said......I'd love to see pictures of your flatbote! Do you, by any chance, have a website? Michael > As I understand it, you'd be better off with the Potter 15' . . . I was told > by a > boat broker that the Peep Hen is a poor performer and not at all seaworthy . > . . > Perhaps I was misinformed? > The Peep Hen is no racehorse, and her bottom is flat save for the box > keel-I'm talking really flat, as in no rocker. I assume this is a cost savings > that > allows the bunks to lay right on the hull. That said, the Peep is built to a > very high standard, has positive floatation, and more reserve stability due to > her very high freeboard than anything else in her class, at least in terms of > production boats. Her interior is relatively huge. In a blow, she'd pound, > be slow, and wouldn't go to windward for squat. However, you'd be very > unlikely to drown, barring rocks... > > A lot depends on the waters you sail. If they are small waters, your options > open up dramatically. If you are willing to build your own, many, many more > options become available. I suggest you check out Jim Michalak's web site for > a wealth of possibilities. Many of his free standing rigged designs launch > in 10 minutes! > > I understand your delimma, because I've been grappling with it myself for > years. I finally ended up designing my own, sixteen foot microcruiser, which > I'm > calling Flatbote. She has lots of deck space, 7' bunks below, and 3' 5" of > headroom as well-20 sf of it! Aesthetically, she's a red headed stepchild, but > she will hopefully do what we ask of her in fine fashion. Target launch time > is 10 minutes. Oh yeah, she's got lots of rocker, too. > > SCA is interested in publishing an article on Flatbote, or entering her in > thier upcoming Micro Cruiser design challenge. I plan to build her in late > winter. Wish me luck! > > Steve Tyree > P-15 #2098, "Amy Ann" > > P.S. Just realized that you're going to be sailing on San Francisco Bay. > That makes the M-15 a shoe in, in my opinion. > > Cheers > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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New Monty 15 owner introduction
by Rick Langer 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

Hey Steve, do you have a picture of the roller on your mast crutch? Thanks, Rick Langer M15 #337 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:29:40 -0800 (PST) > From: Steve R. <stever(a)mail.saabnet.com> > Subject: Fwd: M_Boats: New Monty 15 owner introduction > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <20041104162940.B79ED3951(a)sitemail.everyone.net> >. > > I have a mast cradle that has a roller.

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RE: M_Boats: M-15 Mast raising
by Morris, Giles 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

>ended up using the topping lift to tension the mast forward I attached the jib halyard to the stem fitting every time I raised the mast. The mast only has to be lifted half-way or so, and then it's easy to tighten up the halyard with one hand and attach the forestay at your leisure. Makes it almost too easy (can _anything_ on a sailboat be that easy?). Giles Morris

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Re: M_Boats: Two more cents worth
by IDCLLC＠aol.com 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

As I understand it, you'd be better off with the Potter 15' . . . I was told by a boat broker that the Peep Hen is a poor performer and not at all seaworthy . . . Perhaps I was misinformed? The Peep Hen is no racehorse, and her bottom is flat save for the box keel-I'm talking really flat, as in no rocker. I assume this is a cost savings that allows the bunks to lay right on the hull. That said, the Peep is built to a very high standard, has positive floatation, and more reserve stability due to her very high freeboard than anything else in her class, at least in terms of production boats. Her interior is relatively huge. In a blow, she'd pound, be slow, and wouldn't go to windward for squat. However, you'd be very unlikely to drown, barring rocks... A lot depends on the waters you sail. If they are small waters, your options open up dramatically. If you are willing to build your own, many, many more options become available. I suggest you check out Jim Michalak's web site for a wealth of possibilities. Many of his free standing rigged designs launch in 10 minutes! I understand your delimma, because I've been grappling with it myself for years. I finally ended up designing my own, sixteen foot microcruiser, which I'm calling Flatbote. She has lots of deck space, 7' bunks below, and 3' 5" of headroom as well-20 sf of it! Aesthetically, she's a red headed stepchild, but she will hopefully do what we ask of her in fine fashion. Target launch time is 10 minutes. Oh yeah, she's got lots of rocker, too. SCA is interested in publishing an article on Flatbote, or entering her in thier upcoming Micro Cruiser design challenge. I plan to build her in late winter. Wish me luck! Steve Tyree P-15 #2098, "Amy Ann" P.S. Just realized that you're going to be sailing on San Francisco Bay. That makes the M-15 a shoe in, in my opinion. Cheers Steve

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Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6
by nbundek 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

Steve, Thanks for the information on raising the mast. The link was very helpfull. Do you have any experience sailing solo and how to set the sheets for this? A picture of how the sheets and accompanying fairleads and cam cleats would be great. Where are you located? Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: <montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 11:10 AM Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Fwd: M_Boats: New Monty 15 owner introduction (Steve R.) > 2. RE: Sanibel 17 (Todd N. Swift) > 3. Re: RE: Downsizing (MC Carpenter) > 4. Re: RE: Downsizing (Smitty) > 5. Re: RE: Downsizing (David Thomason) > 6. Re: RE: Downsizing (Doug Kelch) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:29:40 -0800 (PST) > From: Steve R. <stever(a)mail.saabnet.com> > Subject: Fwd: M_Boats: New Monty 15 owner introduction > To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > Message-ID: <20041104162940.B79ED3951(a)sitemail.everyone.net> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Hi Norm, > > Welcome to our group. > > About raising the mast, once you have seen it done it is a piece of cake. > > There is advice on set-up from Jerry M. on the msog.org website: > > http://msog.org/models/m15/m15_setuprig.cfm > > I added a line for a jib downhaul. You may have one now. It runs back from the bow fitting through several fairleads and is secured with a clam cleat on the side of the cabin. When I lower the jib and remove it, I leave the downhaul attached to the jib halyard fitting. (There is a small loop in the end of the downhaul.) The other end of the halyard is of course cleated off on the mast. > > With the mast in the highway travel position, I uncleat the downhaul and make sure it has some slack. > > I have a mast cradle that has a roller. I untie the front end of the mast from the trailer support, then roll the mast back and bolt the mast base in. (I am thinking of going with a slotted tabernacle to eliminate the bolt, as has been discussed in recent days.) > > Now I stand in the cockpit. I have the jib downhaul line in one hand. I take the slack out of the downhaul. I lift the mast with the other hand. If I need to stop at any point on the way up, I simply take out the slack and cleat the downhaul. The mast stays in place. I can then reposition to raise the mast the rest of the way, or untangle anything that is snagged. When the mast is up, I cleat the downhaul. Again, the mast stays in place. I have the forestay coiled up and fastened to the mast with a bungee cord. I remove the bungee and walk to the bow to fasten the forestay. > > It takes a lot longer to write about it than to do it. > > When you remove the sails and lower the mast, you just have to do things in a way so that you will be organized for the next time you go sailing. For example, I leave the main on the boom. > > Good luck. You have a great place to sail. > > steve > > Steve R. > M-15 #119 > Lexington, KY > > --- Norm Bundek "nbundek" <nbundek(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > Subject: M_Boats: New Monty 15 owner introduction > > I just bought a 1981 Montgomery 15' hull number 172. > > <...> > > I only need to figure out a way to raise the mast by myself and set up the sails for single sailing. Any suggestions? > > <...> > > If there are any Montgomery's in the Ventura area, please > contact me to sail around the area. > > Norm Bundek > nbundek(a)earthlink.net > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:49:23 -0600 > From: "Todd N. Swift" <Todd.Swift(a)loras.edu> > Subject: M_Boats: RE: Sanibel 17 > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: > <A9BEB1C0B000804A92B69C33C07AFB6C01D53978(a)EXBE03.loras.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Craig et al., > Yep - it's the one with the offset centerboard (to port). That really > makes the cabin nice for camping. I don't notice a performance > difference on different tacks due to the centerboard, but I'm a fairly > green sailor. I like the short stub keel for getting it on the trailer > and for beaching when we camp on the Mississippi. I suspect the M17 is > considerably faster and better to weather - which is why I'm interested > in them. My boat is Anduin - pictures of her are at www.widgetsailor.com > if you go down and click on Anduin. > > I do have one 'speed' experience - take it for what it's worth! Our > sailing club has one overnight race each year down to a campground on > the Mississippi River. We race down (with current) on Saturday, camp, > and sail back (if possible) on Sunday. This year, the Saturday race was > 15 miles directly against a fairly strong wind. We couldn't point as > well as a Catalina22 and an Oday222 that we started with so spent most > of our day tacking without making a lot of headway. We eventually gave > up with about 5 miles to go and motored the rest of the way. We would > have been an hour or more slower than the Catalina. However, on Sunday, > we had a strong wind directly against the current so we had a run all > the way back. We started about 20 minutes ahead of most of the smaller > boat fleet and it took them more than 3/4 of the way back to catch us. > That was much more fun! > > So the only issue I have with the boat is its speed which is probably as > much a factor of my ability as the boat. I'm never in a hurry, but when > the spring floods come, the current is comparable to our boat speed and > thus we often have a hard time going where we want to go while the > Catalina and oday are just enough faster that they have much more > flexibility on the river. > > Todd > Dubuque, IA > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:20:43 -0500 > From: "Craig F. Honshell" <chonshell(a)ia4u.net> > > The Sanibel 17' is a REALLY cool little boat, Todd. I'd like to hear > more from you. > Is the Sanibel the one with the offset centerboard (not positioned at > the centerline > of the keel)? How does she perform? Does the offset board affect > performance? > Thanks. Fair winds, Craig Honshell, M17 #389 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:55:02 -0500 > From: "MC Carpenter" <southisland2(a)earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <001801c4c28f$08221620$bf17a5d1@mchgb874bibsku> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I think some of those small boats have water ballast. they may be light to > transport but how about the righting moment, or basic stability with out a > heavy keel. So I wonder how good they would be in choppy waters of San > Francisco Bay like around Angel Island. I have never heard of a water > ballast sailboat self rescuing > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > > > > Mike, > > > > I am an M15 owner and love. I can raise the mast 1 > > handed with no mechanical advantage at all. I am 5' > > 8". > > > > I have a video of Howard Audsley raising and lowering > > the mast on his M17 using a line from the winch to the > > forestay - one hand on the line and one hand on the > > mast. I could make a copy if you are interested. > > > > I have been on a couple of cruises with the Shallow > > water sailors. They predominantly sail in protected > > waters with Dovkies, Bay Hen, Peep Hens, and several > > Bolger boats. > > > > In 1 reef conditions (18 kts with gusts to 20+, > > protected water with no waves) the M15 towing a 15 ft > > light dory was faster than the Peep Hen. However I > > think the Peep Hen is a wonderful boat for it's design > > purpose which is a beachable protected water cruising > > boat. > > > > The Peep Hen sails pretty well for a high freeboard 14 > > ft boat and has more cabin space than the M15. > > > > Thanks > > > > Doug Kelch > > "Seas the Day" > > --- LUDLOWD2(a)aol.com wrote: > > > >> Mike > >> If your going to sail SF bay, you need something > >> more seaworthy than a sea > >> pearl or peep hen. Those are warm clime beach boats > >> (sea pearl was on my short > >> list until i needed a cabin and portapotti (new > >> wife). dont regret going with > >> the M-15. As John said, a little organization and > >> she will be the easiest boat > >> ever to rig and launch (my 2 HP honda rides on the > >> boat). She will take the > >> steep chop and high winds. Re the cat boat, IMHO the > >> sloop rig of the M-15 is > >> better pointing into the wind. Why is my destination > >> always upwind no matter > >> what? My suggestion, buy a new M-15. > >> Good Luck > >> Don M-15 Sweet Dream > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > > www.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:13:53 -0600 > From: "Smitty" <smith845(a)wcsonline.net> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > To: "MC Carpenter" <southisland2(a)earthlink.net>, "For and about > Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <005f01c4c29b$847cd730$ae8402d0@D1MJRH41> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > The Sea Pearl will sail well in very rough conditions, however if pushed hard > enough it will swamp before it turns turtle. I always had a large canoe air bag > under the rear cockpit, but never had occasion to swamp her to see how it would > work out. Factory floatation seems to be minimal. If the cover is on the front > cockpit, she will roll back upright. The aft cockpit is self draining. The > Pearl is best for the skinny water and moderate winds. The water ballast seems > to work well. The boat is much more stable with full tanks and makes better > headway in chop with full tanks. It won't point as high as an M boat, I'm sure. > With empty tanks she will scoot along with the lightest of winds. The trimaran > version has a slightly larger convertible cabin, but is still rather tiny. > Smitty > Del Rio, TX > (stillwithoutanMboatdepartment) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MC Carpenter" <southisland2(a)earthlink.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > > > > I think some of those small boats have water ballast. they may be light to > > transport but how about the righting moment, or basic stability with out a > > heavy keel. So I wonder how good they would be in choppy waters of San > > Francisco Bay like around Angel Island. I have never heard of a water > > ballast sailboat self rescuing > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > I am an M15 owner and love. I can raise the mast 1 > > > handed with no mechanical advantage at all. I am 5' > > > 8". > > > > > > I have a video of Howard Audsley raising and lowering > > > the mast on his M17 using a line from the winch to the > > > forestay - one hand on the line and one hand on the > > > mast. I could make a copy if you are interested. > > > > > > I have been on a couple of cruises with the Shallow > > > water sailors. They predominantly sail in protected > > > waters with Dovkies, Bay Hen, Peep Hens, and several > > > Bolger boats. > > > > > > In 1 reef conditions (18 kts with gusts to 20+, > > > protected water with no waves) the M15 towing a 15 ft > > > light dory was faster than the Peep Hen. However I > > > think the Peep Hen is a wonderful boat for it's design > > > purpose which is a beachable protected water cruising > > > boat. > > > > > > The Peep Hen sails pretty well for a high freeboard 14 > > > ft boat and has more cabin space than the M15. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Doug Kelch > > > "Seas the Day" > > > --- LUDLOWD2(a)aol.com wrote: > > > > > >> Mike > > >> If your going to sail SF bay, you need something > > >> more seaworthy than a sea > > >> pearl or peep hen. Those are warm clime beach boats > > >> (sea pearl was on my short > > >> list until i needed a cabin and portapotti (new > > >> wife). dont regret going with > > >> the M-15. As John said, a little organization and > > >> she will be the easiest boat > > >> ever to rig and launch (my 2 HP honda rides on the > > >> boat). She will take the > > >> steep chop and high winds. Re the cat boat, IMHO the > > >> sloop rig of the M-15 is > > >> better pointing into the wind. Why is my destination > > >> always upwind no matter > > >> what? My suggestion, buy a new M-15. > > >> Good Luck > > >> Don M-15 Sweet Dream > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > > > www.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:32:30 -0500 > From: "David Thomason" <thomasond2(a)michigan.gov> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <s18a2f7d.015(a)gwia02.state.mi.us> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > The Discovery Channel had an interesting episode of the Myth Buster's > last night in which they managed to raise a sailboat of about 30 foot > using ping pong balls pumped into the cabin. I only caught the last few > minutes, so I'm not real sure of the size of the boat. Apparently, the > "myth" that you could do such a thing was inspired by an old Donald Duck > comic book. It took about 25,000 balls to "salvage" the boat... Some > folks have way too much time on their hands! I wonder how many > ping-pong balls will fit into the cabin of an M15? M17? Nor'sea 27??? > > >>> smith845(a)wcsonline.net 11/04/04 01:13PM >>> > The Sea Pearl will sail well in very rough conditions, however if pushed > hard > enough it will swamp before it turns turtle. I always had a large canoe > air bag > under the rear cockpit, but never had occasion to swamp her to see how > it would > work out. Factory floatation seems to be minimal. If the cover is on the > front > cockpit, she will roll back upright. The aft cockpit is self draining. > The > Pearl is best for the skinny water and moderate winds. The water ballast > seems > to work well. The boat is much more stable with full tanks and makes > better > headway in chop with full tanks. It won't point as high as an M boat, > I'm sure. > With empty tanks she will scoot along with the lightest of winds. The > trimaran > version has a slightly larger convertible cabin, but is still rather > tiny. > Smitty > Del Rio, TX > (stillwithoutanMboatdepartment) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MC Carpenter" <southisland2(a)earthlink.net> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:55 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > > > > I think some of those small boats have water ballast. they may be > light to > > transport but how about the righting moment, or basic stability with > out a > > heavy keel. So I wonder how good they would be in choppy waters of San > > Francisco Bay like around Angel Island. I have never heard of a water > > ballast sailboat self rescuing > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > I am an M15 owner and love. I can raise the mast 1 > > > handed with no mechanical advantage at all. I am 5' > > > 8". > > > > > > I have a video of Howard Audsley raising and lowering > > > the mast on his M17 using a line from the winch to the > > > forestay - one hand on the line and one hand on the > > > mast. I could make a copy if you are interested. > > > > > > I have been on a couple of cruises with the Shallow > > > water sailors. They predominantly sail in protected > > > waters with Dovkies, Bay Hen, Peep Hens, and several > > > Bolger boats. > > > > > > In 1 reef conditions (18 kts with gusts to 20+, > > > protected water with no waves) the M15 towing a 15 ft > > > light dory was faster than the Peep Hen. However I > > > think the Peep Hen is a wonderful boat for it's design > > > purpose which is a beachable protected water cruising > > > boat. > > > > > > The Peep Hen sails pretty well for a high freeboard 14 > > > ft boat and has more cabin space than the M15. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Doug Kelch > > > "Seas the Day" > > > --- LUDLOWD2(a)aol.com wrote: > > > > > >> Mike > > >> If your going to sail SF bay, you need something > > >> more seaworthy than a sea > > >> pearl or peep hen. Those are warm clime beach boats > > >> (sea pearl was on my short > > >> list until i needed a cabin and portapotti (new > > >> wife). dont regret going with > > >> the M-15. As John said, a little organization and > > >> she will be the easiest boat > > >> ever to rig and launch (my 2 HP honda rides on the > > >> boat). She will take the > > >> steep chop and high winds. Re the cat boat, IMHO the > > >> sloop rig of the M-15 is > > >> better pointing into the wind. Why is my destination > > >> always upwind no matter > > >> what? My suggestion, buy a new M-15. > > >> Good Luck > > >> Don M-15 Sweet Dream > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > > > www.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:09:50 -0800 (PST) > From: Doug Kelch <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > To: MC Carpenter <southisland2(a)earthlink.net>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Message-ID: <20041104190955.65747.qmail(a)web13524.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > MC, > > Like the Sea Pearl the Peep Hen is very unlikely to > turn turtle with the assistance of some pretty big > waves. With the high freeboard it will float on it's > side and take no water into the cockpit. > > One of the characteristics of many Bolger designs is > the high freeboard and it's safety aspects. > > The recent Birdwatcher design articles in Messing > about in boats talks to the issue very well. Just > don't take any river/inland lake boats out into the > big wave waters of SF Bay, Great Lakes, the exposed > portions Chesapeake Bay or offshore without a reliable > forecast (no such thing). > > Thanks > > Doug > --- MC Carpenter <southisland2(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > > I think some of those small boats have water > > ballast. they may be light to > > transport but how about the righting moment, or > > basic stability with out a > > heavy keel. So I wonder how good they would be in > > choppy waters of San > > Francisco Bay like around Angel Island. I have > > never heard of a water > > ballast sailboat self rescuing > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> > > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:59 AM > > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > I am an M15 owner and love. I can raise the mast 1 > > > handed with no mechanical advantage at all. I am > > 5' > > > 8". > > > > > > I have a video of Howard Audsley raising and > > lowering > > > the mast on his M17 using a line from the winch to > > the > > > forestay - one hand on the line and one hand on > > the > > > mast. I could make a copy if you are interested. > > > > > > I have been on a couple of cruises with the > > Shallow > > > water sailors. They predominantly sail in > > protected > > > waters with Dovkies, Bay Hen, Peep Hens, and > > several > > > Bolger boats. > > > > > > In 1 reef conditions (18 kts with gusts to 20+, > > > protected water with no waves) the M15 towing a 15 > > ft > > > light dory was faster than the Peep Hen. However > > I > > > think the Peep Hen is a wonderful boat for it's > > design > > > purpose which is a beachable protected water > > cruising > > > boat. > > > > > > The Peep Hen sails pretty well for a high > > freeboard 14 > > > ft boat and has more cabin space than the M15. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Doug Kelch > > > "Seas the Day" > > > --- LUDLOWD2(a)aol.com wrote: > > > > > >> Mike > > >> If your going to sail SF bay, you need something > > >> more seaworthy than a sea > > >> pearl or peep hen. Those are warm clime beach > > boats > > >> (sea pearl was on my short > > >> list until i needed a cabin and portapotti (new > > >> wife). dont regret going with > > >> the M-15. As John said, a little organization and > > >> she will be the easiest boat > > >> ever to rig and launch (my 2 HP honda rides on > > the > > >> boat). She will take the > > >> steep chop and high winds. Re the cat boat, IMHO > > the > > >> sloop rig of the M-15 is > > >> better pointing into the wind. Why is my > > destination > > >> always upwind no matter > > >> what? My suggestion, buy a new M-15. > > >> Good Luck > > >> Don M-15 Sweet Dream > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > > > www.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > www.yahoo.com > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > montgomery_boats mailing list > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 21, Issue 6 > ***********************************************

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Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing - Catboat?
by LUDLOWD2＠aol.com 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

Mike If your going to sail SF bay, you need something more seaworthy than a sea pearl or peep hen. Those are warm clime beach boats (sea pearl was on my short list until i needed a cabin and portapotti (new wife). dont regret going with the M-15. As John said, a little organization and she will be the easiest boat ever to rig and launch (my 2 HP honda rides on the boat). She will take the steep chop and high winds. Re the cat boat, IMHO the sloop rig of the M-15 is better pointing into the wind. Why is my destination always upwind no matter what? My suggestion, buy a new M-15. Good Luck Don M-15 Sweet Dream

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Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing
by David Thomason 04 Nov '04

04 Nov '04

The Discovery Channel had an interesting episode of the Myth Buster's last night in which they managed to raise a sailboat of about 30 foot using ping pong balls pumped into the cabin. I only caught the last few minutes, so I'm not real sure of the size of the boat. Apparently, the "myth" that you could do such a thing was inspired by an old Donald Duck comic book. It took about 25,000 balls to "salvage" the boat... Some folks have way too much time on their hands! I wonder how many ping-pong balls will fit into the cabin of an M15? M17? Nor'sea 27??? >>> smith845(a)wcsonline.net 11/04/04 01:13PM >>> The Sea Pearl will sail well in very rough conditions, however if pushed hard enough it will swamp before it turns turtle. I always had a large canoe air bag under the rear cockpit, but never had occasion to swamp her to see how it would work out. Factory floatation seems to be minimal. If the cover is on the front cockpit, she will roll back upright. The aft cockpit is self draining. The Pearl is best for the skinny water and moderate winds. The water ballast seems to work well. The boat is much more stable with full tanks and makes better headway in chop with full tanks. It won't point as high as an M boat, I'm sure. With empty tanks she will scoot along with the lightest of winds. The trimaran version has a slightly larger convertible cabin, but is still rather tiny. Smitty Del Rio, TX (stillwithoutanMboatdepartment) ----- Original Message ----- From: "MC Carpenter" <southisland2(a)earthlink.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > I think some of those small boats have water ballast. they may be light to > transport but how about the righting moment, or basic stability with out a > heavy keel. So I wonder how good they would be in choppy waters of San > Francisco Bay like around Angel Island. I have never heard of a water > ballast sailboat self rescuing > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch(a)yahoo.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 9:59 AM > Subject: Re: M_Boats: RE: Downsizing > > > > Mike, > > > > I am an M15 owner and love. I can raise the mast 1 > > handed with no mechanical advantage at all. I am 5' > > 8". > > > > I have a video of Howard Audsley raising and lowering > > the mast on his M17 using a line from the winch to the > > forestay - one hand on the line and one hand on the > > mast. I could make a copy if you are interested. > > > > I have been on a couple of cruises with the Shallow > > water sailors. They predominantly sail in protected > > waters with Dovkies, Bay Hen, Peep Hens, and several > > Bolger boats. > > > > In 1 reef conditions (18 kts with gusts to 20+, > > protected water with no waves) the M15 towing a 15 ft > > light dory was faster than the Peep Hen. However I > > think the Peep Hen is a wonderful boat for it's design > > purpose which is a beachable protected water cruising > > boat. > > > > The Peep Hen sails pretty well for a high freeboard 14 > > ft boat and has more cabin space than the M15. > > > > Thanks > > > > Doug Kelch > > "Seas the Day" > > --- LUDLOWD2(a)aol.com wrote: > > > >> Mike > >> If your going to sail SF bay, you need something > >> more seaworthy than a sea > >> pearl or peep hen. Those are warm clime beach boats > >> (sea pearl was on my short > >> list until i needed a cabin and portapotti (new > >> wife). dont regret going with > >> the M-15. As John said, a little organization and > >> she will be the easiest boat > >> ever to rig and launch (my 2 HP honda rides on the > >> boat). She will take the > >> steep chop and high winds. Re the cat boat, IMHO the > >> sloop rig of the M-15 is > >> better pointing into the wind. Why is my destination > >> always upwind no matter > >> what? My suggestion, buy a new M-15. > >> Good Luck > >> Don M-15 Sweet Dream > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. > > www.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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