November 2002 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: gimballed stove alternative?
by Wcpritchett＠aol.com 05 Nov '02

05 Nov '02

I'll chime in on the stoves. Nothing is safer than alcohol. Nothing is colder burning than alcohol. Nothing is as easy (water) to extinguish as alcohol in emergency situations. Concerning gimballs, I wouldn't cruise without them. The Pardys and a VERY few others don't like them. After living aboard for 10+ years and cruising 2 (yes, with my M10 dink there too)...there is no way I wouldn't have them. You do want locks to keep the stove steady when not in use but when the rail (sailboat in heavy weather) is down you can cook...otherwise there would be no way to keep water in the pot or the pot on the stove. Well, you CAN use a pressure cooker with the lid on and pressure valve off if you want cook in a seaway without gimballs but it is still a hassle to stir. For a safe non alcohol stove...kerosene is the next choice. It burns hot and the flash point from fumes isn't close to gas or propane. The smell is a problem but you do get used to it. For small boats and weekends the non pressurized alcohol sounds best to me. I do have to admit that I carry both an Optimus "Hunter" and "Hiker" white gas stoves as backups. Bill P.

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Re: M_Boats: M15
by Randy Watkins 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

hi Connie, interesting info, I have no doubt the Golf has the power to pull a M15. We had the TDI model which had plenty of low end power. I think anything larger would be a challenge for a small car. I also towed the M15 with an old Toyota Cressida Wagon, straight 6 cy, back wheel drive. It did fine, too bad they don't offer that model here anymore. take care Randy W. >>> chbenneck(a)juno.com 11/04/02 10:51AM >>> Hi Greta and Randy, In years gone by, VW said "No towing" with the GOLF in their specifications. I contacted my friend in Munich, Germany and asked what are the towing specs for a GOLF in Germany? They FAXed me back a spec sheet from VW with the various allowable towing weights for various GOLF / engine combinations. i.e., in Germany you can tow: in the USA you can't tow! My presumption is that VWoA lawyers said, write No Towing in the specifications and warranty, and then if anyone tows with a GOLF, and has a problem, you can't be sued. My Munich friend is hauling a horse trailer - with her horse - up and down Germany and across the Alps with her diesel powered GOLF. Nuf said......! Of course, the trailer has brakes. I feel perfectly comfortable hauling an M15 with my Jetta (and formerly with my GTI) but hauling an M17 is stretching it a bit. Connie _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: M15
by Conbert H Benneck 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

Hi Greta and Randy, In years gone by, VW said "No towing" with the GOLF in their specifications. I contacted my friend in Munich, Germany and asked what are the towing specs for a GOLF in Germany? They FAXed me back a spec sheet from VW with the various allowable towing weights for various GOLF / engine combinations. i.e., in Germany you can tow: in the USA you can't tow! My presumption is that VWoA lawyers said, write No Towing in the specifications and warranty, and then if anyone tows with a GOLF, and has a problem, you can't be sued. My Munich friend is hauling a horse trailer - with her horse - up and down Germany and across the Alps with her diesel powered GOLF. Nuf said......! Of course, the trailer has brakes. I feel perfectly comfortable hauling an M15 with my Jetta (and formerly with my GTI) but hauling an M17 is stretching it a bit. Connie

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Re: M_Boats: outboard weight
by Conbert H Benneck 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

Hi Jerry, The answer to your question is NO. N-O, No! Don't go bouncing down the road with an outboard mounted on the stern of the boat. That is asking for trouble. Let the powerboat people with their big motors enjoy all that fun! The major problem is that the boat's stern and the motor mount are not designed to handle shock loads.Shock loads would be applied by a 55 lb weight hanging on a lever arm of xx inches as your trailer - which most likely has cast iron springs (i.e., much too stiff) - hits bumps in the road; pot holes; debris; goes over curbs, etc. The trailer will pivot on the hitch: the trailer wheels hitting the bump will cause the stern to act like a slingshot. The resulting "g" forces have to be countered by the boat's stern. If it is a very mild bump, then the motor mount / stern may be subjected to 2 g. 2g would equal 110 lbs. if the bump becomes more severe; then you could be looking at 3 g or 4 g: then we are talking about the motor mount and the stern structure holding forces of 165 lbs, and 220 lbs, or higher, depending on the severity of the bump. That is not a normal boat stern design operating condition, and no stern is designed to absorb such shock loading. You are running a very expensive destructive test on the stern. Do you really want to see your 55 lbs of outboard attempt solo flying lessons on a heavily traveled Interstate, while taking a good piece of the stern with it? Connie M15 #400 LEPPO

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Re: M_Boats: M15
by Conbert H Benneck 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

No, VW's transmission is built by VW to the best of my knowledge Connie

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Re: M_Boats: outboard weight
by Wilsometer＠aol.com 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

In a message dated 11/3/02 5:29:25 PM, jrduke1(a)dslextreme.com writes: << Hello All, I'm wondering if it's ok to tow bouncing down the road with the outboard mounted to the transom. I have a Sea Gull model 90 wich weighs about 55lbs Jerry, M17 #333 >> Jerry, I would STRONGLY advise against it. I have seen two M15's with separation at the hull/deck joint (above transom) due to this practice. The joint is not bolted at this point (at least not on the M15), and the leverarm provided by the bracket works the transom, and in turn the joint. It just isn't worth it. Scott Grometer, M15 #478 'bebe'

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Re: M_Boats: M15
by Randy Watkins 04 Nov '02

04 Nov '02

towing- there is a lot of info on tow vehicles in the archives. We just sold a VW Golf and purchased a Chevy truck with a towing mode package. We enjoyed driving the VW. I read the VW manual and they didn't recommend towing. I think it would void your warranty if applicable. I think safety in stopping would also be an issue. The M17 loaded down almost weighs as much as the VW. happy sails Randy & Greta Watkins >>> chonshell(a)ia4u.net 11/03/02 02:17PM >>> My M17's former owner trailered her, in North Carolina, with a 4-cylinder Volvo wagon: He claimed that the Volvo's indestructible "Borg Warner" transmission allowed him to do so. I wonder if the Golf, also a European car, has a transmission by the same manufacturer . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conbert H Benneck" <chbenneck(a)juno.com> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 3:10 PM Subject: M15 Hi Sandra Congratulations on getting your new M15. You'll have lots of fun with this lovely little ship. I have hauled quite a few boats with my GOLF - 4 cylinder / manual shift. My first experience as a neophyte in trailering was picking up a Bolger designed MICRO from the builder in Bay City, MI. We were heading to Florida and planned to do some sailing there. The MICRO was on a trailer that had been modified from a mobile home trailer: it weighed at least twice what the MICRO weighed (900 lbs) so our towing weight was around 3000 lbs. We went down I-75, through Kentucky mountains, and eventually reach Florida without any problems. Later we drove back to Connecticut again with the same rig. Two years later I bought a ComPac 16 and hauled it from Florida to Connecticut, again with the GOLF. Next boat was the M15, which I picked up in Panama City FL. and towed it back to Connecticut with my VW VR6 GTI. The M15 has now been to Moosehead Lake, Maine, and to Lake Champlain several times being towed with the VW 1.8T GTI with an automatic transmission. Now my tow vehicle is a VW VR6 powered Jetta wagon with an automatic transmission. Works fine, but I intend to equip the trailer with trailer brakes next year. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats

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Re: M_Boats: M15
by Conbert H Benneck 03 Nov '02

03 Nov '02

Hi Sandra Congratulations on getting your new M15. You'll have lots of fun with this lovely little ship. I have hauled quite a few boats with my GOLF - 4 cylinder / manual shift. My first experience as a neophyte in trailering was picking up a Bolger designed MICRO from the builder in Bay City, MI. We were heading to Florida and planned to do some sailing there. The MICRO was on a trailer that had been modified from a mobile home trailer: it weighed at least twice what the MICRO weighed (900 lbs) so our towing weight was around 3000 lbs. We went down I-75, through Kentucky mountains, and eventually reach Florida without any problems. Later we drove back to Connecticut again with the same rig. Two years later I bought a ComPac 16 and hauled it from Florida to Connecticut, again with the GOLF. Next boat was the M15, which I picked up in Panama City FL. and towed it back to Connecticut with my VW VR6 GTI. The M15 has now been to Moosehead Lake, Maine, and to Lake Champlain several times being towed with the VW 1.8T GTI with an automatic transmission. Now my tow vehicle is a VW VR6 powered Jetta wagon with an automatic transmission. Works fine, but I intend to equip the trailer with trailer brakes next year. Connie M15 #400 LEPPO

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RE: M_Boats: New sails & mast light plug
by Richard Conn 03 Nov '02

03 Nov '02

Giles, If you go with Quantum make sure you know what you'll be paying. I was surprised by their Richmond, CA loft with a tab of something over $360 for slugs and a second reef point on my main. Rich M-17 "Beatrice" #613 >From: "Morris, Giles" <giles.morris(a)unisys.com> >Reply-To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >To: "'montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com'" ><montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: RE: M_Boats: New sails & mast light plug >Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:28:54 -0500 > > >Are there any sail makers you'd recommend or recommend against? > >I've only bought sails once, and am far from an expert on them, but am >happy >with the main and (furling) genoa that I bought from Mack Sails of Florida >for Dolphin. (http://www.macksails.com/) A friend is happy with his sails >from Quantum (I forget which loft, but it is in the Chesapeake area. >Oxford?) and I was impressed when I visited their Annapolis loft. > >Giles Morris >Arlington VA >Vancouver 25 "Dolphin" >Montgomery 15 "Umiaq" >Sundry small craft > >_______________________________________________ >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _________________________________________________________________ Get faster connections -- switch to MSN Internet Access! http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

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Re: M_Boats: Resealing tiller & Rudder & Outboard questions
by Conbert H Benneck 03 Nov '02

03 Nov '02

Hi Stan, Thanks for the input. LEPPO is currently being sailed in fresh water only, but the poor rudder is taking a beating as the lake level falls and it encounters rocks that have risen to striking distance. That's why I am going to "armor plate" the bottom third of the rudder with some glass cloth and epoxy. Add a bit more protection. I can't pull up the rudder to get it out of the water, since there are some pontoon boats at the dock and they do a great job of whacking such an outstretched protuberance! Did it once, with the tiller holder holding the rudder. That resulted in the Forespar Tiller Holder fitting breaking out, and splitting the tiller as the "?" hit the rudder. Connie

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