December 2010 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Geminids
by Stephen Peterson 14 Dec '10

14 Dec '10

Woke up about 2AM the last 2 days, from the sack I have about a 20% view of the sky through an East facing window. Really nice shower, guestimate about 100 per hour for whole sky, most very bright. Likely will try again tonight. The clouds down in S UT seem to clear in the middle of the night. Steve

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 94, Issue 60
by garrard55＠xmission.com 14 Dec '10

14 Dec '10

Kim, The general problem is when religious texts are used to explain astronomical phenomenon. I read a Facebook posting by a LDS person reviewing Lynn Hilton's work, talking about how they liked that he used the scriptures to study the stars and not the stars. People who treat these texts literally are likely to reject scientific authority in favor of religious/scriptural authority. This is certainly not unique to LDS people, but I would say that the additional scriptures of the LDS movement complicate matters, because they are added to what are already problematic passages in the Bible. The Book of Abraham is filled with some cryptic and confusing descriptions of the universe, much like the Book of Revelation from the NT, and so is subject to all kinds of wild interpretations. While the astronomy in the BoA appears to me unscientific, there are two instances of heliocentrism in the Book of Mormon. Then again, D&C 77 is pretty clear on the point of the earth being a few thousand years old, and this is NOT the statement of a bronze age man, but the communications of a deity to a modern prophet. I think that the problem is less with the LDS scriptures and more with the people who mix these ideas with those of, as I mentioned before, Sitchen, Talbott, Velikovsky, etc. These are crackpots, and associating them with LDS thought is a great disservice. There are real LDS astronomers who have contended with this ignorance, like R. Grant Athay and the late Erich Paul, but I see very little of their thinking and more of that of Rod Cluff, prominent LDS hollow earther. Is there stuff like this elsewhere? Absolutely. It seems to be a universal phenomenon, but especially in the U.S. There are versions of this occurring in every major religious tradition, where the boundaries between science and religion are always tested and a struggle for authority continues. Does that concern me? Absolutely. The US is declining in its academic vigor towards the sciences. Many countries are now launching probes and landers, and America's pride in its technical achievements seems at a low point. This is not the time to be building creation museums and trying to force intelligent design into textbooks. Thankfully, none of these things have happened in Utah (yet), which is to our credit. > > I hope others don't mind if we continue this a bit. Now I think we may have > something to talk about. Richard, you obviously have very strong opinions - > nothing wrong with that, but they can easily be construed as attacks. I > share your sentiments regarding Von Daniken but I'm not familiar with the > others you cite. From my experience, Latter-Day Saints are no more prone to > believe such stuff as any other group of well-meaning but perhaps uninformed > people. I'm sure that literal interpretations of some LDS scriptures such as > the writings of Abraham (where the Kolob story comes from) can sound just as > strange and silly to others as ancient astronaut theories do to me. My take, > as a believing LDS, is that the story of Abraham's Kolob, Biblical creation > story and other stories from the Old Testament are largely allegorical. > After all, how else might God explain to a goat herder concepts of > cosmology, big bang theory, inflation, etc.? (Assuming these theories are > basically correct, of course - another discussion.) > > For what it's worth, I've been really disappointed that the History Channel > is airing programs on UFO's and ancient astronauts. A lot of nonsense, in my > opinion. So, Richard, again I don't think that LDS are more na?ve or > gullible than others. It's simply a strange but fascinating reality of our > American culture. Do you or anyone else know if this kind of stuff is as > pervasive elsewhere in the world, particularly in our western counterparts > such as Europe? > > BTW, David - love the cartoon! > > Kim > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 94, Issue 60 > ********************************************** >

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 94, Issue 57
by garrard55＠xmission.com 14 Dec '10

14 Dec '10

I note that my questions concerning Mormon astronomy meet with censure, while the promotion of Intelligent Design does not. Fascinating. Quoting utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com: > Send Utah-Astronomy mailing list submissions to > utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > utah-astronomy-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Utah-Astronomy digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Mormon astronomy clarification (Julie Clyde) > 2. age of universe, evolution, yada yada (RON VANDERHULE) > 3. Killer Confesses to Murdering Pluto (Jay Eads) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 16:28:50 -0700 > From: Julie Clyde <jchorley(a)gmail.com> > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification > Message-ID: > <AANLkTi=wEOSajVfyoUo0ZJSFujxYrbLD7sF4QcMKB+2q(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > When I was a child and I asked questions about the differences in scientific > discoveries and LDS beliefs, my devout LDS mother either told me that > science was wrong (like carbon dating for example) or that we didn't know > how long God's day was, hence there was no conflict. This was 40ish years > ago though, and I really don't know how she would reconcile today's > information with her beliefs. I have to add, that as an impressionable > child who firmly believed my mother knew all, I scoffed at science for most > of my childhood/teen years. > > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Me Siegfried <ziggy943(a)xmission.com> wrote: > >> May I respectfully suggest he contact the LDS church for an official >> position. I have read the Kolob Theorem. It's not the church position. >> >> Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless >> >> -----Original message----- >> From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> >> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Mon, Dec 13, 2010 21:04:53 GMT+00:00 >> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification >> >> Someone using the name Richard Garrard has been posting on an exMormon >> website, with the topic "Satan Stories in the Mormon Church." >> >> Another posting from 2000 is, "Richard Garrard, April 2000 - Proposition 22 >> and other LDS church political activities; their continued Orwellian changes >> to doctrine and history; my growing confidence in myself and unwillingness >> to live someone else's life, for another's approval. Also, I have found a >> far more valid identity as a humanist, which is fundamentally incompatible >> with the blind faith, conformity, irrationality, supernaturalism, inhumanity >> and tortured apologetics of Mormonism." >> >> I'm concerned because this forum is about astronomy, not sociology. >> Richard, if you are the same poster, can you tell us why you want people to >> comment on the Mormon view concerning astronomy? As a non-Mormon but a >> respectful friend to many Mormons, I think we should be careful that this >> discussion group isn't used as fodder for someone's agenda. >> >> Thanks, Joe >> >> --- On Mon, 12/13/10, garrard55(a)xmission.com <garrard55(a)xmission.com> >> wrote: >> >> > From: garrard55(a)xmission.com <garrard55(a)xmission.com> >> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification >> > To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> > Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 1:42 PM >> > Thanks, Chuck, for sharing the >> > information and pointing out my pasting error. >> > >> > I've been thinking about the recommendation. It's probably >> > what I'd do, and that would certainly get me out of a sticky >> > situation, but what about the kid? If they take an astronomy >> > question to their bishop, he won't have any answers, unless >> > the bishop's an astronomer, other than "we don't know >> > everything", "we'll find out on the other side" or that old >> > curiosity-killer, "that's not necessary for your >> > salvation." >> > >> > I know, I know, we can't transgress on the parents' turf. >> > But I'm becoming more and more concerned about the quality >> > of scientific education in this country, when we can't >> > counter the garbage being churned out by the freaks on the >> > fringe. >> > What if a parent has a passionate attachment to the ideas >> > of Sitchin or von Daniken? Do we treat it as equal to >> > religion and thus not refutable? And so on. >> > >> > Thanks for listening, and any other information. >> > >> > Richard >> > >> > >> > Quoting utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com: >> > >> > >> > > ------------------------------ >> > > >> > > Message: 3 >> > > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:13:53 -0700 >> > > From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> >> > > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> > > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy >> > clarification >> > > Message-ID: >> > > >> > >> <AANLkTi=4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp+_PK66xPM5pF(a)mail.gmail.com<4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp%2B_PK66xPM5pF(a)mail.gmail.com> >> > >> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> > > >> > > 35 years ago, I frequently gave talks and put on >> > astronomy slide shows >> > > at area schools, up to the high school level. >> > > >> > > Whenever questions arose that had their foundation in >> > scriptural >> > > descriptions of cosmology and/or evolution, I always >> > politely referred >> > > those students to their religious leaders for more >> > information, >> > > explaining that such questions are out of the realm >> > of scientific >> > > research. >> > > >> > > Garrard, it seems that you are subscribed to the >> > "digest" format. Can >> > > you do me a favor and when replying to a comment, >> > please don't quote >> > > the entire digest or thread. Edit your reply to >> > include only the >> > > comment you reply to. It helps me enormously in >> > not having to pick >> > > through dozens of repeat posts. >> > > >> > > Thanks! >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> > >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:20:15 -0700 > From: "RON VANDERHULE" <deepsky100(a)msn.com> > To: "utah-astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] age of universe, evolution, yada yada > Message-ID: <BAY157-ds8607F2BD3D04A040189A681130(a)phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi group, Just want to pull a few lines from some of the posts > today and comment; > > 1) "Understanding evolution is vital to understanding biology" > This statement is propagated in various forms > and lacks merit of any kind. Genetics is vital, and a proven > science. Evolutionists assume because there are similarities > in genetic make-up between different species,one morphed from > another. I have made it a habit over the years to > look in the index of high school biology books under the topic of > evolution and I have found very little. Often not > even a chapter. I understand that it is one of the least covered > sciences on the university level. Often not even > required for related fields. So maybe an example of how its > understanding is so critical is in order. > > 2) "Number of evidences that the Universe is older than it is" > I might add there are evidences that it is younger > than supposed also. Einstein said all the clocks in the Universe > run at different speeds (rough translation). One thing > the science of Cosmology has revealed over the years is how complex > and mysterious the Universe is. > > 3)"Information Theory the death knell for Neo-Darwinism" What > goes on in a single cell is mind boggling. is like a little > city with a host of creative activities taking place. The > information rich DNA in that cell is the key to all life. The authors > of The Mysteries of Life's Origins said that the information in the > DNA is mathematically identical to the information > in a written language or computer code and indicates an intelligent > cause. And these are just regular scientists. Francis > Crick, Sir Fred Hoyle, and even Richard Dawkins give credence to > this notion. In the documentary "Expelled" in the interview > with Dawkins, he admitted that life's origins are so unexplainable > that possibly beings from another world planted life > here. He also acknowledged a 50% chance that God exists. I saw and > heard those statements. I choked on my popcorn. > > 4) Palmaris longus muscle and tendon group is missing in 14% of > the population and is attributed to muscle variation > mostly along ethnic lines, which is quite common. The assertion that > it is evolving away, that wisdom teeth are leftovers > from our cud chewing ancestors, the appendix was a second stomach > are nothing more than fanciful asumptions. > > Ron > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 17:28:45 -0700 > From: Jay Eads <jayleads(a)gmail.com> > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Killer Confesses to Murdering Pluto > Message-ID: > <AANLkTi=naStfsrEwBiWC046eLS3xOUuE5Xb7R7Q4WNNm(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Good article on NPR on how astronomer Mike Brown explains why he didn't > start off to murder Pluto. Has a sound bite, and an excerpt from his new > book on the subject. > > http://www.npr.org/2010/12/12/131932177/killer-confesses-to-pluto-s-murder-… > > -- > Jay Eads > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 94, Issue 57 > ********************************************** >

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] age of universe, evolution, yada yada
by erikhansen＠thebluezone.net 14 Dec '10

14 Dec '10

> Watson and Crick also felt all should undergo a genome test. Those not meeting their standards would not be allowed to breed. Scientist are sometimes misguided. Humans are supposed to be able to cover a greater distance (on foot) than any animal. I doubt many humans today can claim that, try keeping up with my dog she runs 10 miles a day in an hour (I slow her down). It seems clear, to me, humans are becoming more intellectual and less physical. A single species evolves in many different lines due to external causes, they can gradually become very different. We share some 99% of DNA with gorillas, that seems an extraordinary coincidence. A lot of therapies today are directed toward genes, its seems some disease is contained in the DNA code, again we have only scratched the surface. Evolution was very much taught in the college I got my Biology degree from. Yes, some feel the universe is younger than we suppose, that just illustrates that we have more to learn. That is all to be figured out, we all make assumptions. What seems fanciful may be reality, Francis Crick had very limited knowledge of the human genome. We still have little knowledge, yes geneticists have figured out great deal DNA contains uncountable possible combinations. Genetics is far from an exact science today, Pediatric Geneticists still scratch their heads in some cases. Where did Dawkins say that there is a 50% chance there is a God????????? > Wow!!!! I'd better start repenting!!! > > Spencer Ball > > -----Original Message----- > From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of RON > VANDERHULE > Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 5:20 PM > To: utah-astronomy > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] age of universe, evolution, yada yada > > Hi group, Just want to pull a few lines from some of the posts today and > comment; > > 1) "Understanding evolution is vital to understanding biology" This > statement is propagated in various forms > and lacks merit of any kind. Genetics is vital, and a proven science. > Evolutionists assume because there are similarities > in genetic make-up between different species,one morphed from another. I > have made it a habit over the years to > look in the index of high school biology books under the topic of > evolution > and I have found very little. Often not > even a chapter. I understand that it is one of the least covered sciences > on the university level. Often not even > required for related fields. So maybe an example of how its understanding > is so critical is in order. > > 2) "Number of evidences that the Universe is older than it is" I > might > add there are evidences that it is younger > than supposed also. Einstein said all the clocks in the Universe run at > different speeds (rough translation). One thing > the science of Cosmology has revealed over the years is how complex and > mysterious the Universe is. > > 3)"Information Theory the death knell for Neo-Darwinism" What goes on > in a single cell is mind boggling. is like a little > city with a host of creative activities taking place. The information > rich > DNA in that cell is the key to all life. The authors > of The Mysteries of Life's Origins said that the information in the DNA is > mathematically identical to the information > in a written language or computer code and indicates an intelligent cause. > And these are just regular scientists. Francis > Crick, Sir Fred Hoyle, and even Richard Dawkins give credence to this > notion. In the documentary "Expelled" in the interview > with Dawkins, he admitted that life's origins are so unexplainable that > possibly beings from another world planted life > here. He also acknowledged a 50% chance that God exists. I saw and heard > those statements. I choked on my popcorn. > > 4) Palmaris longus muscle and tendon group is missing in 14% of the > population and is attributed to muscle variation > mostly along ethnic lines, which is quite common. The assertion that it is > evolving away, that wisdom teeth are leftovers > from our cud chewing ancestors, the appendix was a second stomach are > nothing more than fanciful asumptions. > > Ron > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Ascent - Commemorating Shuttle
by Chris Clark 14 Dec '10

14 Dec '10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2VygftZSCs

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Geminids
by Kim 13 Dec '10

13 Dec '10

Not looking too good for tonight's Geminid peak, at least not from here. We have hazy skies. The Moon, Jupiter and bright stars are visible but the high cirrus is discouraging. I knew I should have gone out last night. Kim

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon theology
by garrard55＠xmission.com 13 Dec '10

13 Dec '10

> ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 18:44:40 -0700 > From: "Kim" <kimharch(a)cut.net> > To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon theology > Message-ID: <E1PSJwo-0007aE-0k(a)mx01.mta.xmission.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Richard, I think you may have misunderstood some comments regarding your > inquiry. Most of us on this list try to be sensitive about other points of > view, but there have been those times when opinions are mocked and > personalities become the targets of comments instead of scientific debate. > Hence my initial question about the purpose of your investigation. Censure > is too strong a term. Some of us are just a bit gun shy about potentially > loaded questions such as yours. We have entertained many opinions regarding > intelligent design, creationism, Big Bang, even steady-state theories. None > have been promoted, per se, at least not officially. We just make fun of > those who still believe in such nonsense. (BIG smiley face here.) > > I wouldn't object to an open forum on this list on religious questions as > they relate to astronomy, but the consensus seems to be that the subject is > too toxic in Utah's culture. If our moderator chooses to allow it, why not? > I'm not afraid, and I don't think most of us are. We just don't want to > allow religious discussion to overwhelm intelligent discussions of > astronomy, in general, which is after all the purpose of the list. > > Kim > > Richard wrote: > > "I note that my questions concerning Mormon astronomy meet with censure, > while the promotion of Intelligent Design does not. > Fascinating." > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Thank you, Kim, for your thoughtful response. My interest is chiefly in the junk pseudoscience of frauds like Sitchin, Velikovsky, Talbot, von Daniken, Hoagland, etc. However, I frequently encounter them among our local folk with LDS associations attached, from LDS authors who mix religious language, references and credentials with their ancient astronauts, hollow earths and other conspiracies. I see it as a sort of "affinity fraud" of nonsense. Granted, there usually aren't large sums involved (just book sales), but the minds of many people are polluted with all kinds of antagonism toward scientific authority, and will turn to an astrologer or a conspiracy theorist before they will to an astronomer. This stuff is all over television and Youtube, and is rarely debunked or even questioned with any vigor. In an age of incredible astronomical discovery, we are treated to the absurdities of 2012 and the nagging question of whether we ever landed on the moon or whether to continue our space program.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification
by garrard55＠xmission.com 13 Dec '10

13 Dec '10

Thanks, Chuck, for sharing the information and pointing out my pasting error. I've been thinking about the recommendation. It's probably what I'd do, and that would certainly get me out of a sticky situation, but what about the kid? If they take an astronomy question to their bishop, he won't have any answers, unless the bishop's an astronomer, other than "we don't know everything", "we'll find out on the other side" or that old curiosity-killer, "that's not necessary for your salvation." I know, I know, we can't transgress on the parents' turf. But I'm becoming more and more concerned about the quality of scientific education in this country, when we can't counter the garbage being churned out by the freaks on the fringe. What if a parent has a passionate attachment to the ideas of Sitchin or von Daniken? Do we treat it as equal to religion and thus not refutable? And so on. Thanks for listening, and any other information. Richard Quoting utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com: > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 13:13:53 -0700 > From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mormon astronomy clarification > Message-ID: > <AANLkTi=4Mq6vrqXWhF9q1DTzvaY14urp+_PK66xPM5pF(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > 35 years ago, I frequently gave talks and put on astronomy slide shows > at area schools, up to the high school level. > > Whenever questions arose that had their foundation in scriptural > descriptions of cosmology and/or evolution, I always politely referred > those students to their religious leaders for more information, > explaining that such questions are out of the realm of scientific > research. > > Garrard, it seems that you are subscribed to the "digest" format. Can > you do me a favor and when replying to a comment, please don't quote > the entire digest or thread. Edit your reply to include only the > comment you reply to. It helps me enormously in not having to pick > through dozens of repeat posts. > > Thanks!

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Killer Confesses to Murdering Pluto
by sfisher01＠comcast.net 13 Dec '10

13 Dec '10

I met Dr. Brown and bought a signed copy of his book " The Planet Hunter: The Story Behind What Happened to Pluto". (an excellent childrens book) I know he didn't mean to do it but still he is responsible. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Eads" <jayleads(a)gmail.com> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2010 5:28:45 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Killer Confesses to Murdering Pluto Good article on NPR on how astronomer Mike Brown explains why he didn't start off to murder Pluto. Has a sound bite, and an excerpt from his new book on the subject. http://www.npr.org/2010/12/12/131932177/killer-confesses-to-pluto-s-murder-… -- Jay Eads _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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age of universe, evolution, yada yada
by RON VANDERHULE 13 Dec '10

13 Dec '10

Hi group, Just want to pull a few lines from some of the posts today and comment; 1) "Understanding evolution is vital to understanding biology" This statement is propagated in various forms and lacks merit of any kind. Genetics is vital, and a proven science. Evolutionists assume because there are similarities in genetic make-up between different species,one morphed from another. I have made it a habit over the years to look in the index of high school biology books under the topic of evolution and I have found very little. Often not even a chapter. I understand that it is one of the least covered sciences on the university level. Often not even required for related fields. So maybe an example of how its understanding is so critical is in order. 2) "Number of evidences that the Universe is older than it is" I might add there are evidences that it is younger than supposed also. Einstein said all the clocks in the Universe run at different speeds (rough translation). One thing the science of Cosmology has revealed over the years is how complex and mysterious the Universe is. 3)"Information Theory the death knell for Neo-Darwinism" What goes on in a single cell is mind boggling. is like a little city with a host of creative activities taking place. The information rich DNA in that cell is the key to all life. The authors of The Mysteries of Life's Origins said that the information in the DNA is mathematically identical to the information in a written language or computer code and indicates an intelligent cause. And these are just regular scientists. Francis Crick, Sir Fred Hoyle, and even Richard Dawkins give credence to this notion. In the documentary "Expelled" in the interview with Dawkins, he admitted that life's origins are so unexplainable that possibly beings from another world planted life here. He also acknowledged a 50% chance that God exists. I saw and heard those statements. I choked on my popcorn. 4) Palmaris longus muscle and tendon group is missing in 14% of the population and is attributed to muscle variation mostly along ethnic lines, which is quite common. The assertion that it is evolving away, that wisdom teeth are leftovers from our cud chewing ancestors, the appendix was a second stomach are nothing more than fanciful asumptions. Ron

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