January 2003 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: Utah-Astronomy digest, Vol 1 #256 - 14 msgs
by tmayoung＠att.net 10 Jan '03

10 Jan '03

This is really serious - isn't it? "Mowling for Beteorites!" More LOL! Cannonballs falling from the sky! Shell casings! Rockets! Sounds like a very exciting place to go prospecting...The last word he heard was, "Incoming!"...

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats
by Paul Witte 10 Jan '03

10 Jan '03

I was just curious if anyone else had read this article. It looks like it includes a couple tips that could make another hunt more successful: http://bolidechaser.tripod.com/lucerne/drylakes.htm ---------- From: Joe Borgione Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 7:16 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats <<File: ATT00000.htm>> Today's (1-8) Salt Lake Tribune has an article featuring our own Patrick Wiggins and a discussion of the Bowling Ball experiement. Ever since reading it I can't get the picture out of my mind of a 16 pounder chasing Patrick with his parachute... ;) Joe Borgione Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> wrote: --- Patrick Wiggins wrote: > Chuck Hards wrote: > > > > Patrick informed me that Robert Hague has indeed > found > > meteorites in the desert, scouted from an > aircraft... > > > > Does anyone know if he found recent falls, or > pieces > > of Canyon Diablo that have been there a long time? > > He's at 520.882.8804 if anyone wants to call him. He was contacted this afternoon. Contact me privately and I'll tell you what he said re: Salt Flat Meteorite Hunt. C. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats
by Kim Hyatt 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

For those interested in using metal detectors, you may want to consider how the numerous 50mm shell casings and other possible metallic debris (bullets? UXB's?) from years of military flyovers may have on equipment. I was surprised just how many shell casings there were. You may also want to consider steps to mitigate any "potholing" that may be necessary every time you get a "hit." (Big Brother, i.e. BLM is watching...) -----Original Message----- From: Larry Frisk [mailto:lkfrisk@earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:49 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats You are correct Chuck. The coil is removable. That sounds like a pretty good idea. I built my first metal detector from scratch and it worked pretty well. There are a couple of local clubs that have years of experience using metal detectors. I may try to contact one of them and see what they think. Thanks for the idea. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Hards" <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> To: <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats > The "head", or coil, on most metal detectors is > removeable. > > For some of you hardware guys, why couldn't we wind > our own induction coil, make it about ten or fifteen > feet wide, connect it to a standard metal detector, > and mount it on the front of a truck? > > Then a grid could be "driven-off" with much greater > speed. Any detections could be followed-up by another > team with a standard detector and shovel. > > Chuck > > --- Larry Frisk <lkfrisk(a)earthlink.net> wrote: > > Thanks for the link Paul. > > I was a bit disappointed at by the statement that a > > metal detector is not an > > effective tool to use because that was what I had > > planned to use. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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Fruit
by Patrick Wiggins 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

This from the astrometry listserve I'm subscribed to. The topics is almost as big there as it is here. I guess there's just some primal desire to do this stuff. Patrick > James didn't try a bowling ball, but since you asked... I also checked > oranges and grapefruits and got a value of 42-55 m/s for 3-5 inch diameter > spherical objects with the density of water, not counting the effects of the > textured surface of citrus fruits, which a golf-ball aerodynamicist might > say should make them fall faster. But this fits a figure of 50 m/s I've > heard for a spread-eagled sky-diver. > But even a small 10 inch diameter round watermelon should fall much faster > than a human, 78 m/s, just behind a 16 pound bowling ball. In fact, a > lighter weight bowling ball can have density less than 1 gm/cc and would > fall slower than the watermelon. > Also the grapefruit should fall faster than the orange, but James said the > orange was faster.

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History channel tonight & Saturday cannon
by Patrick Wiggins 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

As a sort of side note to the bowling ball from aircraft thread, history channel is running a show on siege machines, cannon and big air guns all which hurl large, heavy objects (including pianos) great distances. It'll run again at midnight. Also, I've now heard from a guy in Tooele with a cannon that shoots bowling balls. He'd like to demo it for all interested this coming Saturday afternoon. Anyone interested? Patrick

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Mowling for Beteorites
by David Bennett 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

I came home today to find my mailbox stuffed with 30 some odd messages about bowling balls from outer space. LOL! I have now made a separate mailbox entitled 'Spaceballs' so my inbox wouldn't have to be so cluttered. (Whether or not that title refers to the subject or the authors, I'm still deciding ;-) Keep up the cause y'all...just keep SLAS out of it :-) Dave

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats
by Kim Hyatt 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

Oops - I misstated. The shell casings are .50 caliber, not 50mm - sorry for the confusion. BTW, Since the Salt Flats are an "historic site" the shell casings and/or anything else of historic interest or value are probably considered to be an "historic resource" and protected by both State and Federal laws regarding historic and/or archaeological sites. Therefore, I will follow-through with BLM and the State, USGS, and any other relevant agencies to get permission. Others will either have to do the same or join me when I go hunting again, probably this summer. Dave Bennett discovered a map somewhere that indicates known meteorite "fall" sites in Utah. Surprisingly, there are several. The one I remember is on or near Sevier Lake, another site I had considered before knowing others had already had success there. Maybe Dave will share that info? -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Hards [mailto:chuckhards@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:11 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats Kim, are they really 50mm shells? Or .50 caliber? At worst, we could pick them up and sell them for scrap, or just clean the place up ("This part of the Salt Flats sponsored by SLAS"). We could also try different areas. By the racetrack, at the west end of the flats isn't the only place to look. If the snow doesn't come soon, we'll have lots of dry lake beds to check-out! Chuck --- Kim Hyatt <khyatt(a)smithlayton.com> wrote: > For those interested in using metal detectors, you > may want to consider how > the numerous 50mm shell casings and other possible > metallic debris (bullets? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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Salt Flat meteorite search
by Kim Hyatt 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

Mr. Warchol: If you have been following the Utah Astronomy list serve today you will know there has been quite a bit of discussion regarding your and Joe Bauman's articles in yesterday's newspapers. I'm sorry I didn't have the opportunity to speak with you - I didn't know the Tribune was planning an article until I saw it in the paper. I take responsibility for originating the idea of dropping objects from an airplane on the Salt Flats, but there is a serious research concept behind the whole idea: What size range of meteorite (assuming an object not massive enough to be supersonic and/or cause serious local or regional damage) would not punch through the salt crust and therefore remain on the surface for many years? Answering this question would give us an idea of what size and how many meteorites might be expected, if any. I'm sorry that your article treated this notion with such disparagement. Meteorite research has given us much knowledge about the early Solar System. Additionally, meteorites are very rare - finding one would certainly be thrilling for most people, whether they are interested in astronomy or not. While I would love to find an object from "outer space" I am more interested in a worthwhile (and admittedly fun) experiment that may be of worth to scientific amateurs and professionals alike. For your information, those of us interested in the experiment have contacted already or plan to contact the various regulatory agencies responsible for the Salt Flats or who might otherwise have an interest in our plans: BLM, Utah State Preservation Office, FAA, etc. I trust you and others would give us enough credit for conducting this or any similar experiment with appropriate permission. If you are interested in contacting me, feel free to do so at the number below, or you may simply reply via email. Kim A. Hyatt, AIA SL&A Architects 331 South Rio Grande, Suite 304 Salt Lake City, Utah 84101 801.322.5550 x122

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats
by Kim Hyatt 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

Rules regarding protected resources overlap a bit. On BLM land not designated an historic site, only obvious historic and/or prehistoric resources are protected, such as pottery shards, arrowheads, ruins, etc. On historic sites, protection is also controlled at the State level, but regulations are similar. I have a call into an acquaintance in the State Preservation Office to ask about this. I will also ask about meteorites. If they are only considered a mineral resource, then I think the same rules apply as those for rockhounding, i.e. no power tools, personal use, that sort of thing. If they are considered a prehistoric resource (which I really doubt) then more restrictive rules apply. I only mentioned the shell casings because I know their age falls within the "historic period" (which is defined as anything over 50 years old) and I'm sure they will be protected at the Salt Flats. I will also contact an archaeologist friend of mine who does a lot of work for the Feds and State and should be able to give us some ideas. I think we're safe collecting rocks, but not shell casings or other "artifacts." -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Hards [mailto:chuckhards@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:45 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats Sevier is exactly one of the areas I was thinking about...another thought is frozen lake surfaces, for very recent falls. It's been so warm this winter, though, I wonder if any of the larger lakes have frozen-over this year. I have a suspicion that Utah ice-fishermen are having fits. Kim, are all items on BLM land protected? I mean, could we get in trouble for taking the meteorites themselves? I know that taking a living plant from BLM land is forbidden; it's not just artifacts. Chuck --- Kim Hyatt <khyatt(a)smithlayton.com> wrote: > Dave Bennett discovered a map somewhere that > indicates known meteorite > "fall" sites in Utah. Surprisingly, there are > several. The one I remember is > on or near Sevier Lake, another site I had > considered before knowing others > had already had success there. Maybe Dave will share > that info? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] "Bowling" for meteorites
by Kim Hyatt 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

Thanks for the support. I never thought this idea would become controversial, but for now at least I think it's still manageable. I'll let y'all know if I get any serious hate mail. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Hards [mailto:chuckhards@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 11:45 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] "Bowling" for meteorites VERY well written, Kim. Chuck _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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