January 2003 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

"Bowling" for meteorites
by Kim Hyatt 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

Joe Bauman was kind enough to share with me your email to him regarding the article in yesterday's Deseret News. I take responsibility for originating the idea of dropping objects on the Salt Flats as part of an effort to look for meteorites in the area, but the idea has acquired a life of its own, beyond my control. Allow me to give you some background: Von Del Chamberlain, former director of the Hansen Planetarium, first suggested to me some years ago that the Salt Flats may be a productive area for hunting meteorites. The flat expanse of white would make it easy to spot objects that appear out of place, and rocks from space might stay exposed on the surface for some time. His thought was to gather a large group of people to simply stroll across the Flats for a day and see if anything turned up. At the time (about 1990) that was as far as the conversation went. I mentioned this idea to astronomy friends of mine (other members of the Salt Lake Astronomical Society, or SLAS), a number of whom expressed an interest in the experiment. In early October of 2000, we scheduled a Saturday to gather at the Salt Flats for the "hunt." Unfortunately, the weather was bad and only one other enthusiast joined me. Together we drove about ten miles across the salt, parallel to I-80, but much nearer to the mountains. We were surprised to discover many rocks on the surface (no meteorites...darn), probably carried there be flash-flooding from the mountains. What really intrigued me, however, was the fact that there were so many 50mm shell casings, presumably from WWII, that were just "floating" as it were on top of the salt. This made me wonder two things: (1) What kind of impact would be necessary to punch through the salt layer and sink into the mud, and (2) Is there some mechanism at work in the nature of the salt crust that will keep rocks floating on the surface for decades, centuries, or even longer? These issues have an obvious bearing on the likelihood of actually finding meteorites on the salt surface. While discussing my thoughts with others, the idea occurred to me that we could make some empirical analysis by dropping objects at or near terminal velocity to measure the impact (literally) on the salt crust. An airplane pilot friend, also a member of SLAS, offered the use of his plane if we really wanted to try this experiment. From there, others "got wind" of the idea and... well here we are. I appreciate your concerns and would like to discuss with you how we might carry out this experiment with minimal disturbance to natural resources. We are only considering dropping objects well away from the speedway track and any other man-made features. We are also considering dropping only a handful of objects, perhaps a bowling ball or two (due to its spherical shape we should be able to get more typical results for a theoretical object) and one or two rocks for comparison. We may want to do this when there is standing water, i.e. during winter or spring, and also when the salt is dry, as it typically is in late summer. I admit I know nothing about the Salt Flats other than what I have observed while driving across them, but I doubt our experiment would have any more effect than natural events (storms, flash flooding, and... meteorites?) and certainly less effect than hundreds of racing enthusiasts who disturb the natural formations to make racing more practical and leave countless articles of trash behind. (Yes, I saw the numerous soda bottles, cans, bags, worn tires, etc. strewn all over the area, and no, I do not litter myself.) However, I would still value your input and any suggestions you might have. We only propose to follow all relevant regulations, and would repair any damage to the salt crust that could possibly occur from the impact of a bowling ball or similar sized rock. Feel free to respond via email or to telephone me at my office number: 322.5550. I look forward to hearing from you. Kim A. Hyatt, AIA SL&A Architects 331 South Rio Grande, Suite 304 Salt Lake City, Utah 84101 801.322.5550 x122

2 1

IMPORTANT Utah's Light Pollution Control Resolution
by Grahn Family 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

I am forwarding this to the group, because I think it's something we are all interested in seeing happen. Patrick, could you pass it on in your news tonight? Jo Grahn >>>> Envelope-to: bsi(a)xmission.com Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 10:47:07 -0700 From: Anthony Arrigo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.2b) Gecko/20021016 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Lee Priest , Ashley , Rich Tenney , Paul Witte , Jo Grahn , Dan Burn , Gordon Steinhoff CC: Don Brown , Bob Gent , International Dark-Sky Association , "Anthony Arrigo" Subject: Utah's Light Pollution Control Resolution X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=8.0 tests=CTYPE_JUST_HTML,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT, USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,X_ACCEPT_LANG version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: Well... it's that time.... Could each of you please contact your members... and any dark sky supporters for that matter. Ask them to spread the word about the new Light Pollution Control Resolution being introduced into the Utah Senate. Ask them to reach out in as many ways as possible... phone, e-mail, snail-mail, in person.... We need to contact each legislator and let them know that this is an important issue statewide. Tell them to keep their message short and to the point. Sample e-mails will be made available shortly. A good starting point would be to point them towards the Utah Skies light pollution page which can be found at ( href="http://www.UtahSkies.org/lightpollution">www.UtahSkies.org/lightpollution) On this page they'll find contact information for the Utah House & Senate.. plus the Governor & Lt. Governor. Additionally, we've got the editorial e-mail addresses for most of the major papers & tv stations statewide. If there are any glaring omissions that you spot, please pass the information on to us and we'll update the site. Getting our message in the press is extremely important...it contacts large chunks of the population AND the very legislators we're reaching out to. Also in this section you'll find some good information on light pollution... general terms & definitions plus links to more in-depth articles and resources. Ok... The Resolution To view the text of the resolution... visit ( href="http://www.le.state.ut.us/asp/billsintro">www.le.state.ut.us/asp/billsintro and select Senator Allen) I spoke w/Senator Allen this morning. He said the state's web guy is swamped with over 400 newly crafted bills. I'm told the text of our resolution will be available any day now :) If you have any questions, comments, etc... please pass them along. We should communicate as often as is required. Thanks for your support! Anthony Arrigo Co-Founder of Utah Skies <<http://www.UtahSkies.org>www.UtahSkies.org 801-232-6469

1 0

RE: [Utah-astronomy] IMPORTANT re. bowling balls
by Grahn Family 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

Yeah! They're almost as bad as those wackos that think light can pollute! Jo At 09:51 AM 1/9/2003 -0700, you wrote: >The BLM and the Sierra Club have merged, I call them enviro-nazis, they >work very hard to keep us from enjoying the wonderful land we have down >here in the central part of the state ( you guys on the front, call it >southern part of the state). My $.02 >Keep up the good work. >Wayne > >-----Original Message----- >From: utah-astronomy-admin(a)mailman.xmission.com >[mailto:utah-astronomy-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck >Hards >Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:12 AM >To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] IMPORTANT re. bowling balls > > >I was waiting for this, but I thought it might come >from the Sierra Club, not the BLM! (Where's Jim >Hansen when you need him?) > >They need to be told that the club is not the sponsor >of this experiment, although club members have >discussed it. So far it's really just a protracted >brainstorming session. > >There is much flat land out there, I'm sure that the >experiment could be conducted on private property, >with the permission of an interested property owner. >Perhaps somewhere much closer, rather than near the >racetrack area. > >What does the BLM do when a real meteorite hits the >Salt Flats? Does God get an email from them, too? ;) > >C. > >__________________________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >

1 0

More on BBs from above
by Patrick Wiggins 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

An old article: http://bolidechaser.tripod.com/lucerne/drylakes.htm And an email sent me from a guy back east: I found a formula for wind resistance for a spherical object in an old college textbook. Using a shot-put ball (16 pounds is standard I think) which is larger, smoother, and greater or equal density than most meteorites you're likely to find, the terminal velocity is 150 m/s. Terminal velocity is only approached asymptotically, so for the necessary altitude you have to be satisfied with just getting to some particular large fraction of terminal velocity. I made a little basic program and found the following values of drop altitude (above ground level) vs speed at impact. One thing not accounted for is that the formula I found was for sea level air, but the salt flats are at an altitude of several thousand feet, and the trajectory will start several thousand feet above that. altitude impact speed 1876 m (6155 ft) 135 m/s 2297 m (7538 ft) 140 m/s 3000 m (9844 ft) 145 m/s

1 0

RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats
by Paul Witte 09 Jan '03

09 Jan '03

The article was written in 1965 and I would expect there has been some improvement in metal detectors since then, especially the ones designed specifically to find gold nuggets. I think the bigger problem would be garbage on the salt flats, bullet shells etc. ---------- From: Larry Frisk Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 12:10 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats Thanks for the link Paul. I was a bit disappointed at by the statement that a metal detector is not an effective tool to use because that was what I had planned to use. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Witte" <questort(a)attbi.com> To: <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 5:45 PM Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Meteorites on the Salt Flats I was just curious if anyone else had read this article. It looks like it includes a couple tips that could make another hunt more successful: http://bolidechaser.tripod.com/lucerne/drylakes.htm _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

1 0

"Bowling for Meteorites"
by Kim Hyatt 08 Jan '03

08 Jan '03

I only learned yesterday that this idea has acquired a life of its own. Yes, I guess I originated the idea, although I owe the idea of searching the Salt Flats for meteorites to VonDel Chamberlain. (Forgive me if I missed the spelling.) When I first searched the Salt Flats with Alpine Stringham and his family a couple of years ago, we found many terrestrial rocks "floating" on the salt crust. How and why they got there is still a mystery to me, but undoubtedly some geologist somewhere has an explanation? Anyway, it occurred to me that a simple experiment dropping rocks or bowling balls from the air would give us an idea what to expect and what to look for. Would an object the mass of a bowling ball penetrate the salt crust? What difference does standing water (which is present much of the year) make? I didn't think the idea was silly at all, but you all know what happens when the news media get a whiff of something unusual. I'll let y'all know when we plan our first "drop" and you can decide for yourselves if we're nuts or not. Kim A. Hyatt, AIA SL&A Architects 331 South Rio Grande, Suite 304 Salt Lake City, Utah 84101 801.322.5550 x122

1 0

Great story, Joe
by Chuck Hards 08 Jan '03

08 Jan '03

Check out today's Deseret News for Joe Bauman's piece on the meteorite experiment. Great story, Joe, much more in-depth than the Trib story! Chuck __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

4 4

Meteorites on the Salt Flats
by Chuck Hards 08 Jan '03

08 Jan '03

Hi gang! Patrick informed me that Robert Hague has indeed found meteorites in the desert, scouted from an aircraft... Does anyone know if he found recent falls, or pieces of Canyon Diablo that have been there a long time? Thanks Chuck __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

4 6

Lakeside tonight
by Grahn Family 07 Jan '03

07 Jan '03

We'll be heading out to Lakeside tonight, getting there 9:30-ish, if anyone wants to join us. The Harper gravel quarry road is snowpacked for the last mile, and we're leery of pulling a trailer over it. It would, however, be fine for anyone with an all wheel drive. Jo Grahn

1 0

In the news
by Patrick Wiggins 07 Jan '03

07 Jan '03

Well, it looks like the cat is out of the proverbial bag. I had a call this morning from one of the science writers at the Tribune this morning. He said he'd received a call from someone who told him about our "bowling balls from heaven" scheme and he wanted to do a story. Joe Bauman has been wanting to do a similar story for the D News but had been holding off until we knew more. I guess since the Tribune is proceeding Joe will too. Look out below! :-) Patrick

1 0